Input lag really isn't lag?

So, another week and no patch. Lol, I'm fairly certain that this Ian Bell bloke was here just to prevent a few more people from depressing a secondary market value of the game too quickly and letting EA rip-off a few more customers.
 
Remember that patch has to be accepted by MS/Sony. But yeah, Ian could give us some info, I`m loving this game but stoped playing beacuse I`d rather play the patched version (input laaaag).
 
tyl0r_r
That logic seems to state that you can't be innovative once you've established yourself without completely changing your core.
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That is the very definition of the word innovation; seems like you need a dictionary as well.

GT5 still feels like GT; GT5 is an evolution of the basic GT formula, but an innovation it is not.
 
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conath
Remember that patch has to be accepted by MS/Sony. But yeah, Ian could give us some info, I`m loving this game but stoped playing beacuse I`d rather play the patched version (input laaaag).
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Drew from EA confirmed on nfs.com last week that it's coming when it's done. Certification does take a while. The game's only been out two weeks, it takes that long to pass certification from MS. Jeesh.
 
spapadillion
IIRC, GT5 had a several hundred megabyte patch on day one. Surely it's not that complicated.
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Wow, efficient. Well, with this game, they had to compile the data for unforeseen issues with online play, glitches, etc. that they didn't catch in testing.

Patching something on day one means you already know what's not working right. I don't think SMS/EA knew about some of the bugs when it released.
 
I think that problems at SMS itself are more the issue. Read here:

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/03/26/slightly-mad-studios-is-currently-without-a-project/

(Sorry if this has been posted before) There are two ways to look at this...

1) They have a lot of free time to fix Shift 2

or

2) They are focusing on finding a new project to keep the company going

Tough situation as one kinda begets the other. Who would hire a studio that just released a game with so many problems? How can they concentrate on fixing the past with no real future prospects?

Let's hope for something soon,

-DD
 
spapadillion
IIRC, GT5 had a several hundred megabyte patch on day one. Surely it's not that complicated.
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PD has a strong connection with Sony, it is easier fro them to push it through. MS has a ridiculous certification process (many devs have complained about it) and can't be compared to PD getting Sony to certify a patch.
 
It will take weeks for a patch to be released to consoles - go check tdu2 forms if you want to see how long it took atari. I'd say minimum 2 weeks after patch has been finalized by SMS qa...(and remember they won't want to finalize the patch until they think they have ironed out all the major issues)

Patches on day one are different, they've already been approved before the title is released , there is a long delay between mastering cd (so called gold release) for retail and game release... Ie your getting fixes for issues found in final qa.
 
Many PC patches were released for TDU2 before the console got a patch, there has been no patches released yet for Shift 2 on the PC. TDU2 needed patching more than Shift 2 does though.
 
I bought Shift 2 (PC) in anticipation of my new wheel (hurry it up, Fanatec, I'm dying here) and decided to give it a go with the keyboard in the meantime. Aside from the all the horrible things that go along with using that device, the input lag was immediately noticeable.

I tried it first on my 2ms monitor (real 2ms BTB, not that 2ms GTG marketing gimmick bullcrap) and the delay was around 0.5 seconds. I then tried on my 8ms HDTV and the delay was the exact same, so I can say with certainty that, at least in my case, monitor response has nothing to do with it.

But even with that I'm looking forward to really digging once my wheel arrives. All the performance complaints had me worried, but it runs at a solid 60FPS with vsync and all options max which is a huge load off my mind.

I really enjoyed the first Shift, though more as an immersing experience than a racing sim, because even with mods it never felt right; all the cars felt too light and like they were on a central pivot. The thing that finally made me give up on that was the unpredictable traction loss: you're in a corner doing fine, suddenly lose traction for no reason, then regain it and continue on. I really, really hope that wasn't intentional to add to the "experience" because it was very annoying.
 
spapadillion
IIRC, GT5 had a several hundred megabyte patch on day one. Surely it's not that complicated.
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That patch had clearly been planned since before it went gold, because without it the game had NO ONLINE MODE AT ALL. I mean, had that patch not been there then there would have been day one returns in the hundreds of thousands. That patch could have been ready to go for months for all we know.

Or are you actually suggesting that they cooked up a patch and got it approved in less than 24 hours? PD is great and all, but really...:irked:


@Sintek: You're misunderstanding the difference between the marketed response time of your monitor (how fast the pixels are able to change colour) with the other thing that causes lag, which generally is rather confusingly referred to as "response time" as well but is in fact completely different. What causes the lag is postprocessing and delays within the electronics of your TV or monitor, and it's not related to the response time you might read about in any marketing materials for your screen.
 
From page one of this thread:

IanBell
Quick post to say that we've removed the lag internally (well, down to hardware limits) and we're have a blast in testing with the wheels here. Some 'late in the day' asynchronous changes with a view to optimization put things out of kilter a touch. The changes mean that the input is now processed very early on in the frame and filtered through to the physics as quickly as possible.
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A post from over at the nogripracing forums by Martin Griffiths, PC Lead on SHIFT 2 Unleashed at Slightly Mad Studios:

An issue with the dead-zone on 360 controllers has been fixed for the patch. I don't see any problems with the latency of input and 90% of the dev-team use them for testing...
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Two very different pictures being painted here. Starting to worry. :nervous:
 
Imari
That patch had clearly been planned since before it went gold, because without it the game had NO ONLINE MODE AT ALL. I mean, had that patch not been there then there would have been day one returns in the hundreds of thousands. That patch could have been ready to go for months for all we know.

Or are you actually suggesting that they cooked up a patch and got it approved in less than 24 hours? PD is great and all, but really...:irked:
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I suggested nothing of the sort. I simply stated that PD had a patch ready and waiting for the game's release and EA didn't. Feel free to read into that whatever you like.

A week from now the currently patch-free S2U will be at the same point in its life as when the 1.05 patch for GT5 was released: Another fact that I find interesting and from which you may draw any conclusions you see fit.
 
I may have a good idea as to why many have really bad lag.I tried it just to see,but driving in 3rd person(behind the car) is horribly laggy.After doing this i can see why so many are upset.

I'll stick to my hood view 👍
 
so wheres the input from ian bell ? seems to have gone very quiet ? they must be losing face so bad with this game , a game that would/could be brilliant , if not for that dreaded lag .
surely ian you must know by now when this supposed patch is going to be released , you gotta realize thousands of copies of your game are being traded in as we speak , i have a friend who works for grainger games , and they report hundreds being brought back and traded in .
why can't gaming houses be up front and truthful with the gaming fraternity who keep them in a job ? if it wasn't for us you'd all be signing the dole !! come on dig your heads out of the proverbial sand and give us some definitive results regarding patch release -- if any that is
 
^ You don't bother reading much do you. It has already been reported by SMS that the patch should release between 24th-30th April, depending on Sony/Microsoft's approval process.
Not to mention that Ian Bell and co have been very active here and over at NoGrip especially, something rarely seen indeed in the gaming world. I can't remember the last time a PD employee posted something on the forum here, not to mention the number of copies of GT5/TDU2 that are surely being returned at the same time, which doesn't matter to the developers anyway as they've already got the money.
Thousands/millions of copies of the game are also being enjoyed as we speak so.....
 
musomaniak
can you direct me to the thread/forum where i can read the the statement regarding the release of the patch by sms
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How about the thread titled SMS says "what's coming in the first patch". You think that might have some information in it? In the first post, even?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=200054

spapadillion
I simply stated that PD had a patch ready and waiting for the game's release and EA didn't. Feel free to read into that whatever you like.
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I call BS on that.

You stated that PD had a patch ready on day one, and used that as evidence that releasing a patch can't be that difficult if they managed to do so. That statement essentially boils down to you saying that PD are faster than SMS at releasing a patch. Which is totally fallacious when you consider that PD certainly did NOT cook up 1.01 in 24 hours. And in all likelihood, had done serious work on most of the non-bug-fix portions of all the patches prior to release.

SMS hasn't had to patch in content that was promised on the box like PD has, so they've had to wait until post-release to see what issues need to be fixed. Then there's the time to get reports of bugs, to duplicate and isolate the issues, to actually fix the issues, and then to wait while it goes through EA and Sony's QA processes. A one month patch is about as fast as it gets, I haven't seen any games with bug-fix patches much faster than that.
 
spapadillion
Two very different pictures being painted here. Starting to worry. :nervous:
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The Xbox version is not as Laggy with a wheel as the PS3.

Maybe the patch is PS3 based. Can't comment on controllers though sorry.
 
Imari
I call BS on that.

You stated that PD had a patch ready on day one, and used that as evidence that releasing a patch can't be that difficult if they managed to do so. That statement essentially boils down to you saying that PD are faster than SMS at releasing a patch. Which is totally fallacious when you consider that PD certainly did NOT cook up 1.01 in 24 hours. And in all likelihood, had done serious work on most of the non-bug-fix portions of all the patches prior to release.

SMS hasn't had to patch in content that was promised on the box like PD has, so they've had to wait until post-release to see what issues need to be fixed. Then there's the time to get reports of bugs, to duplicate and isolate the issues, to actually fix the issues, and then to wait while it goes through EA and Sony's QA processes. A one month patch is about as fast as it gets, I haven't seen any games with bug-fix patches much faster than that.
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To quote a favorite movie of mine, "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."

PD are faster at releasing patches for GT5 than EA/SMS have been w/ S2U. In fact, 1.02 and 1.03 had also both been released by the two-week mark in GT5's lifespan. We're well past that point now with S2U and still nothing.

While it's true that I did add "Surely it can't be that complicated." and that does go a bit beyond stating simple fact (barely), at no point had I ever assumed, nor did I indicate that PD had "cook(ed) up 1.01 in 24 hours" and to presume otherwise is utterly ridiculous and borderline insulting.
 
I don't think PD has to worry about the approval process like EA does. Kaz is pretty high up the Sony corporate ladder. They took care of the wall busting money glitching rather quickly.
 
What worries me about PD or SONYs greedyness is the fact that they knew the game had bugs when they shipped it to stores and had that time to work on a patch in the meantime instead of pushing the release date and giving us a less defective DVD. but they couldnt miss the christmas sales could they?
 
Yeah and look at what the patches contained, F all. What are we up to, patch 9? Shift 2 will have 1 patch in a month which will most likely do more than all of the patches provided so far for GT5 (not including the patch at release which was clearly already complete). Plus EA have DLC to hopefully release soon (Legends pack, Drag, Standing mile), where's the DLC for GT5?

Sorry to say, but PD have been resting on their laurels and need to lift their game in a big way. I'm so dissapointed with the latest GT after all the time I spent and enjoyed in the earlier ones. Thank goodness for Shift 2 :)
 
spapadillion
To quote a favorite movie of mine, "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."

PD are faster at releasing patches for GT5 than EA/SMS have been w/ S2U. In fact, 1.02 and 1.03 had also both been released by the two-week mark in GT5's lifespan. We're well past that point now with S2U and still nothing.

While it's true that I did add "Surely it can't be that complicated." and that does go a bit beyond stating simple fact (barely), at no point had I ever assumed, nor did I indicate that PD had "cook(ed) up 1.01 in 24 hours" and to presume otherwise is utterly ridiculous and borderline insulting.
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Note that I referred to bugfix patches, because that's what SMS are making. Content patches could be in development for any amount of time before release. We know that SMS has a content patch for S2U at least partially done because movies for it were found on the PC disc.

GT5 1.01: Unlocking Online Mode.
GT5 1.02: Unlocking Power/Weight restrictions.
GT5 1.03: Unlocking Damage.

As far as I know, patch notes don't exist for these patches so it's hard to be sure exactly what they did. But still, I'm not seeing bugfixes. I'm seeing content that was expected to be in the release version being patched in. I don't really want to get into the whole thing of how messed up that is, because everyone has spent the last 6 months doing that, but all those patches would have been at least partially planned prior to release.

The first actual bugfixes I'm seeing in the patch notes released starts at 1.06. Which was the middle of February.

Bugfix patches are different to planned content patches. That's the reason PD could do what they did in terms of quick patches. They took two and a half months to get a bugfix patch in (going by patch notes here). That's hardly impressive.
 
Isn't it easier for PD to get fast tracked by Sony for releasing patches? Essentially they are Sony aren't they?

Didn't take long for the track glitch to get patched (after it was revealed all over the net that is).

I imagine other 3rd party developers having to wait longer for release.

Im not sure either way mind, just my guess.
 
Spagetti69
Isn't it easier for PD to get fast tracked by Sony for releasing patches? Essentially they are Sony aren't they?

Didn't take long for the track glitch to get patched (after it was revealed all over the net that is).

I imagine other 3rd party developers having to wait longer for release.

Im not sure either way mind, just my guess.
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You're echoing what I said almost 12 hours ago ;). Glad I'm not the only one that realized PD is higher in the pecking order.
 

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