Intake Bypass; V2 installed

[McLaren]

For anyone who might have seen it, I do have a CAI on order. However, I've been getting estimates on installation. And right now, the 2 shops I'm deciding upon are giving different answers on a bypass.

I did have one on order, but I've canceled that after today. As a bit of background, I originally called up Jotech to have them order & install. After 15 minutes, they advised I buy a bypass for the car so it doesn't hydro-lock (I need to look up the term, though I believe it has something do to with water in the pipe(?)). Thus, my estimate came out to the following:
AEM Cold Air Intake: $268.31
AEM Bypass: $50
Installation: $212

At the end, I believe I was quoted $529.88. I've told them I'll wait til' next year. My friend though, suggested another shop; New Image AutoSport.

Today, they told me I didn't need a bypass because it was a cold air intake. According to them, a bypass would be better on a short-ram. They quoted me $299.99 for the intake, and $100 for the labor; $400 out the door minus the bypass.
Now, I'm figuring if I tell Jotech I don't want the bypass, they should take a $100 off ($50 for part; $50 for labor).

Thus, I'm asking the knowledgeable here if the bypass is truly recommended or if Jotech is just trying to get another $100 out of me.

 

[backspace]

Thus, I'm asking the knowledgeable here if the bypass is truly recommended or if Jotech is just trying to get another $100 out of me.

You would probably be better off finding a forum specific to your car and asking. You could probably even find some enthusiasts who would be happy to help you install it if you bought them lunch, otherwise, you might as well grab your ankles.

 

[McLaren]

You would probably be better off finding a forum specific to your car and asking. You could probably even find some enthusiasts who would be happy to help you install it if you bought them lunch, otherwise, you might as well grab your ankles.

I have already PMed a supplier at one of the forums I'm on. I'm asking in multiple places though for second opinions.

 

[backspace]

Good Idea.

It doesn't take all that much water to hydro lock an engine, but it all depends on where and how the filter is mounted.

 

[Keef]

Hydrolock refers to the engine sucking so much water into the combustion chamber that everything instantly locks up and stops turning. Water doesn't compress (without getting all technical of course) and it obviously doesn't burn. Hydrolock will comletely destroy just about every moving part in an engine--they can't withstand the tremendous forces involved in coming to a halt that quickly.

Cold air intakes are usually mounted low and inside the bumper where they're vulnerable to water spray. Factory intakes are designed protected from weather, but aftermarket cold air intakes disregard all those useless safety concerns and instead focus on power and response. What AEM's byspass valve does it stay closed under normal conditions, but when the vacuum inside the intake tube becomes great enough (as in the case of the air filter being engulfed by water) the valve will open to release that vacuum, let the engine get the air it wants, and leave the water down at the bottom where it should be.

If you've ever ran through a huge puddle that was enough to slow your car down or had to ford standing water then you'd have wanted a bypass in that situation, just as a precaution. The filter will have to be almost completely engulfed for the engine to suck up enough water for hydrolock, but I wouldn't chance it. Even if half or 3/4 of the filter is dunked in a bucket the engine will simply pull air from the other 1/4 of the filter, but I have no idea when the point comes that it pulls the water up with it. The chance of mishap gets higher with more rpm obviously because the engine is moving more air.

For the most part a short ram intake will leave you with no worries, and I'd recommend that. It's easier, cheaper, and the differences in performance and response will only be noticeable on a dyno. I don't know about you, but I don't ride a dynamometer to work every day. Even the chance of hydrolock is enough to turn me away from a low mounted cold air (which is usually the case with Civics like mine) and it only takes one puddle to blow a hole in your block.

EDIT: If spray water into your intake with a spray bottle the steam it makes can actually clean carbon out of your combustion chambers.



And that 's a very small engine with weak suction simply getting sprayed with water. Imagine being at high rpm in your huge V6 going through a puddle deep enough to suck up water.

 

[McLaren]

Thanks for that information, Keef (and plus invisi. rep 👍 ). I very, very rarely have ever driven through a puddle that has even remotely caused the car to slow speed, but from the sound of things, even just a splash of that water from the puddle could get in and cause problems, correct?

I'll give this more thought, but it seems, from what you've told me, that New Image is giving me some baloney claiming CAI's don't need it and short-rams do. But again, thank you, Keef. 👍

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I'll give this more thought, but it seems, from what you've told me, that New Image is giving me some baloney claiming CAI's don't need it and short-rams do. But again, thank you, Keef. 👍

Right, it would be the other way around. A CAI draws air from where the air is cooler (HENCE THE NAME), usually inside the fender or bumper area.

An SRI is just a fairly short pipe taking the filter to somewhere it fits underhood with little to no chance of sucking water in. (as you most likely know)

In other words, there is absolutely no reason for an SRI to need a bypass, but plenty reason for a CAI to have a bypass.

 

[Troux]

To be honest, you shouldn't be paying for a CAI install. It's just about the easiest, most self-explanatory mod you can do to a car. Take it on yourself.

 

[McLaren]

To be honest, you shouldn't be paying for a CAI install. It's just about the easiest, most self-explanatory mod you can do to a car. Take it on yourself.

It seems people on other forums have not grasped this. I have a new car warranty on the car, and I do not trust myself to do it as it requires me to drill 2 holes among other stuff into the engine bay. I'm having a shop do it.

 

[nk4e]

It seems people on other forums have not grasped this. I have a new car warranty on the car, and I do not trust myself to do it as it requires me to drill 2 holes among other stuff into the engine bay. I'm having a shop do it.

Somehow, I was going to mention it. My older brother installed his CAI but not the bypass. But if you have a new car warranty, get the bypass after all. If you don't see any bad from coming from this then do it.

 

[Keef]

...even just a splash of that water from the puddle could get in and cause problems, correct?

Not really. Engines can suck in a fair amount of water before there gets to be so much that not all of it will evaporate from the heat. Say you dipped an air filter halfway in a bucket full of water. Nothing would happen. Then engine would just suck the air it needs from the open part of the filter, albeit with a little more vacuum in the intake tract. The filter would need to be nearly engulfed--not just splashed--for the engine to suck up a large amount of water. But if you're insisting on a cold air then you might as well not chance it. I've driven my Civic through a foot of standing water before, thanks to a freak torrential downpour and flooding last spring, and if I had a cold air intake without a bypass I would have had to try and coast through by barreling into the water at 50mph and turning off my engine. It worked!

You're welcome. Btw, there are numerous ways for hydrostatic lock to happen. Coolant, fuel, water, and even oil can enter your engine in suck volume that it won't burn or evaporate.

 

[kingcars]

$529 for a cold air intake!?!?!?! I got a pair of aluminum heads for that. Find a place with good info on your car and do it yourself. Hanes manuals help a lot too.

 

[Joey D]

$529 for a cold air intake!?!?!?! I got a pair of aluminum heads for that. Find a place with good info on your car and do it yourself. Hanes manuals help a lot too.

There probably isn't a Haynes or Chiltons manual out for a new TL yet. You could get the service manual from Honda but that would require selling various body parts to afford it. If you are feeling a bit illegal you can download electronic copies on the net...not that I would know anything about that.

It seems people on other forums have not grasped this. I have a new car warranty on the car, and I do not trust myself to do it as it requires me to drill 2 holes among other stuff into the engine bay. I'm having a shop do it.

Was does a warranty have to do with installing an intake? I put an AEM Brute Force intake on my Blazer while it was still under warranty and nothing happened. By law the dealer can't do anything about it, all it will do is void the warranty for anything happening to the intake itself, nothing more.

I don't know how TL/Accord owners are with their forums but if they are anything similar to every other one make enthusiast site I've been on there is probably a step by step guide with photos on how to do it. When I got my intake for the Blazer that's all I did and it only took me about an hour to install...and I have almost zero knowledge of wrenching on a vehicle.

Even if you are going to have a shop do it, $212 is ridiculously high. Labour should be about $50 at most and it does not take four hours to put an intake on. I would look around some more or ask a friend who knows cars to give you a hand which will probably run the cost of a case of beer or lunch.

 

[Duke]

Today, they told me I didn't need a bypass because it was a cold air intake. According to them, a bypass would be better on a short-ram.

No, you would almost certainly need a bypass on a CAI, and almost certainly not on a short ram. Either you're confused about what they're saying, or they are.

The reason you need a bypass is to prevent the intake from snorkeling up water from a deep puddle. A short ram typically sits up very high in the engine compartment and would not get water in it except in water deep enough to flood the passenger compartment as well. A CAI, on the other hand, usually puts the filter on the end of the intake tube way down low where it can get cold air from the stream passing under the car. This puts it low enough that as little as 6" of standing water can cause it to suck up into the intake tube.

And, speaking from personal experience, it will suck up if you submerge the end. My wife's 2.4-swapped Neon had a CAI on it. It was shortened about 5" over the original Iceman/Knight design, because the car had an automatic transmission (which is bigger so the full-length tube wouldn't fit). Nonetheless, during a flash flood, it sucked up enough water to bend at least two connecting rods and break a piston. This was before bypasses were invented. If it had been my car (manual trans) it would have been even more vulnerable.

If you're getting a CAI that puts the cone filter within about 18" of the ground, I would invest in a bypass. For what it's worth, it was less than a pint of water that destroyed the Neon's engine.

 

[McLaren]

$529 for a cold air intake!?!?!?! I got a pair of aluminum heads for that. Find a place with good info on your car and do it yourself. Hanes manuals help a lot too.

Um, $529 is for everything, including the bypass. The CAI itself is $268.

Was does a warranty have to do with installing an intake? I put an AEM Brute Force intake on my Blazer while it was still under warranty and nothing happened. By law the dealer can't do anything about it, all it will do is void the warranty for anything happening to the intake itself, nothing more.

Because if I install it myself, and something goes wrong, I know McDavid will not cover me because I was installing an aftermarket part.

Even if you are going to have a shop do it, $212 is ridiculously high. Labour should be about $50 at most and it does not take four hours to put an intake on. I would look around some more or ask a friend who knows cars to give you a hand which will probably run the cost of a case of beer or lunch.

I don't trust most of my buddies except my bud Chris & Michael whose had experience tinkering with BMWs. However, Chris thinks the TL is too complex, and Michael knows nothing about the car.

No, you would almost certainly need a bypass on a CAI, and almost certainly not on a short ram. Either you're confused about what they're saying, or they are.

If would be them, then. Then again, this place mainly specializes in audio installation, so that may be why.

If you're getting a CAI that puts the cone filter within about 18" of the ground, I would invest in a bypass. For what it's worth, it was less than a pint of water that destroyed the Neon's engine.

Ok, so now you've pretty much given me second thoughts. A few fellow owners and others have already told me the car would have to literally be driven into an extremely large puddle for the car to really have a chance of hydro-locking. Most have suggested buying a protective cover to repel the water, instead....

 

[Joey D]

Because if I install it myself, and something goes wrong, I know McDavid will not cover me because I was installing an aftermarket part.

It's illegal for a dealership to do that. All they are legally able to do is cancel your warranty for your intake, that's it. And if anything else broke they would have to prove that it was the intakes fault and not something else and most dealers aren't going to bother.

The law is The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)

http://www.rosenentertainment.com/Magnuson Moss%20and%20Clean%20Air%20Acts.pdf

I had to use this when I lowered my truck and the dealer wanted to void my entire warranty. I had an electrical problem with the truck and Wally Edgar Chevrolet told me that since I had lowered it and had aftermarket tail lamps they couldn't fix it under warranty. Merely bringing this law up made them change their tune since I'm assuming most consumers know nothing about it.

 

[McLaren]

It's illegal for a dealership to do that. All they are legally able to do is cancel your warranty for your intake, that's it. And if anything else broke they would have to prove that it was the intakes fault and not something else and most dealers aren't going to bother.

The law is The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)

http://www.rosenentertainment.com/Magnuson Moss%20and%20Clean%20Air%20Acts.pdf

I had to use this when I lowered my truck and the dealer wanted to void my entire warranty. I had an electrical problem with the truck and Wally Edgar Chevrolet told me that since I had lowered it and had aftermarket tail lamps they couldn't fix it under warranty. Merely bringing this law up made them change their tune since I'm assuming most consumers know nothing about it.

Which is exactly something I'm trying to avoid.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Because if I install it myself, and something goes wrong, I know McDavid will not cover me because I was installing an aftermarket part.

I don't see your point.

No matter whether you install it or a shop installs it, it's still an aftermarket part and they'll still try to find a way to void you on something or another because of it.

 

[McLaren]

I don't see your point.

No matter whether you install it or a shop installs it, it's still an aftermarket part and they'll still try to find a way to void you on something or another because of it.

They can't find a way to void my warranty if the part is installed correctly. Trying to do so is against the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act. They have to physically prove to me the part caused a problem (which intakes normally don't).

 

[Rotary Junkie]

In other words you find you are completely incapable of adequately installing a cold air intake then, correct?

And you would rather pay someone else to install it than even try installing it yourself?

Yet you consider yourself a car guy...

 

[Duke]

Magnusson-Moss is NOT and all-protecting talisman, either. If you install an aftermarket intake and then later the engine spins a rod bearing, they're going to say that the aftermarket filter failed to adequately clean the intake air of dust and prematurely damaged the bearing.

And they could even be right.

 

[Perfect Balance]

How would a rod bearing be related to intake air? I would really love to see them attempt to prove that.

EDIT: It seems Rotary Junkie is really trying to put words in your mouth there, Revention.

 

[McLaren]

In other words you find you are completely incapable of adequately installing a cold air intake then, correct?

And you would rather pay someone else to install it than even try installing it yourself?

Yet you consider yourself a car guy...

So, to be a car guy, you have to install everything yourself?


Here's a thought, you mad tyte JDM guy!
Shut the hell up.

How would a rod bearing be related to intake air? I would really love to see them attempt to prove that.

EDIT: It seems Rotary Junkie is really trying to put words in your mouth there, Revention.

He's just one of those silly Import kids. He doesn't realize there's a big difference in working on a 2007 V6 to some 1989 V6.

 

[Perfect Balance]

EDIT: never mind, don't want to stir the pot too much.

EDIT #2: Although he's not really one of those import kids either.

 

[McLaren]

EDIT: never mind, don't want to stir the pot too much.

EDIT #2: Although he's not really one of those import kids either.

He's still just a smartass. I nowhere said I would never install an intake on the car, but after looking at the instructions for the AEM CAI on this car, I just don't trust myself to try it. But, apparently, I can now, no longer be a car guy.

He's just a kid who seems to do nothing but read about imports and thinks installing parts yourself is the only way to be JDM. I don't care. My car isn't even JDM to begin with.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

So, to be a car guy, you have to install everything yourself?

Not so much, but you come off less as someone who is really into cars as you do someone who throws money at cars for the hell of it.

Here's a thought, you mad tyte JDM guy!
Shut the hell up.

He's just one of those silly Import kids. He doesn't realize there's a big difference in working on a 2007 V6 to some 1989 V6.

First off... Just no. Me? JDM tyte? Seriously?

Silly import kid? Again, seriously?

Then the '89 vs '07 bit... You would know, wouldn't you... Seeing as you have absolutely massive experience working on your vehicles.

 

[Perfect Balance]

What I meant was from what I've seen, he's more of a muscle car type of guy, I dunno where "Rotary Junkie" came from.

Yeah though, I don't remember seeing a time when not working on your car meant you were not a car guy. I guess those guys in Dubai that send their Skylines off to Top Secret for 1000+hp builds aren't car guys at all, they didn't touch a bolt on those things themselves.

EDIT: Working at a dealership, I can confirm that working on anything from 1989 is a lot less difficult than something from 2007.

Hell, the intake on my car is a piece of flexible exhaust pipe with a pvc 90 on the end with an airbox made of sheet metal built around it. Mine was made in '99. Try doing that on a modern car.

EDIT #2: Throws money at cars for the hell of it? This is what, his first mod?

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Yeah though, I don't remember seeing a time when not working on your car meant you were not a car guy. I guess those guys in Dubai that send their Skylines off to Top Secret for 1000+hp builds aren't car guys at all, they didn't touch a bolt on those things themselves.

In my eyes they aren't car guys. They're just people with money looking for something else to show off their wealth with.

 

[Perfect Balance]

In my eyes they aren't car guys. They're just people with money looking for something else to show off their wealth with.

I always thought a "car guy" was just someone who liked cars.

Didn't think such a simple term was debatable.

 

[McLaren]

Not so much, but you come off less as someone who is really into cars as you do someone who throws money at cars for the hell of it.

When I have ever thrown money at my cars? The only time I throw money at them is when I need something fixed by the dealer. What? You think I'd actually risk throwing away my warranty by trying to re-align my car myself than pay the dealer a small fee?

Then the '89 vs '07 bit... You would know, wouldn't you... Seeing as you have absolutely massive experience working on your vehicles.

None of my vehicles are simple machines besides the Civic. They all also have warranties that are pretty straight forward on what you can & can't do. I can't afford to spend several hundreds upon hundreds of dollars trying to fix my BMW after losing the warranty.

In my eyes they aren't car guys. They're just people with money looking for something else to show off their wealth with.

Yeah, because that's exactly what I do, kiddo.

That's exactly why I take a $40,000 car to events, track days, & cruises that consist of 6 figure sports cars. Just to show off my wealth. There's guys there with Integra Type Rs & Mazdaspeed 3s who couldn't give a crap about my car. On the other side, I find their cars pretty fascinating. These people could not care less how much everyone else has spent. That's exactly why I love hanging out with them.

You know nothing about me or what I do. As far as I'm concerned, you're nothing more than a little punk hasn't grasped how Warranties & New Cars work now-a-days. The whole point of me having someone else do it is so I don't screw up and lose the warranty with AEM or the dealer. It has nothing to do with me suddenly not being a car guy.

Maybe when you get your first new car, you'll realize you can't start trying to fix everything yourself unless you just don't care about the dealer no longer covering you.