Internet speed - Fake lobby Laptimes - Cheat/trick ?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by SYLVERIS, Mar 21, 2020.

  1. SYLVERIS

    SYLVERIS

    Messages:
    11
    Hello,

    For a few months now, I'm sometimes surprised by the laptimes of my competitors is some lobbies.
    I will try to explain you, sorry for my poor English !
    I usually race in GR3, with SUPER SOFT tires, and car settings allowed.
    But I also race in GR3, without car setting and SOFT tires.
    I know almost all my best laptimes on all tracks, depends of conditions ( lobby settings : weather, soft or super soft... ).
    Yesterday, it happened again, so I decided to save the replay to check.
    I was the only one French racer with all the others competitors from American continent. Most of them are friends, and I race almost everyday with them.

    The suspicious race was on Mount Panorama track, GR3, SOFT tires, without car setting and they did 2'00'600 !
    The usual time we do with SUPERSOFT tires AND car settings.
    I usually do betwen 1'59'500 and 2'00'500 with SUPER SOFT and car settings and here, I was 2/3 seconds slower, seems logic to me.
    I was surprised by my competitors accelaration, and by their laptimes. I'm usually on top, or with the best laptime time, and here I was 3 seconds behind !
    The lobby closed few races after, and some friends in this lobby, joined me in an other one.
    I asked my friends, and they answered me that they usually race without setting, more than me, so they know the lines...
    But they didn't perform in this other lobby like they did in the previous one ! Strange.

    So, I decided to check the replay, like I already did it the first time I saw this, few months ago : a friend, who was yesterday too in the lobby.
    When I said him he had crazy laptimes (few months ago), overnight, I never seen him doing those crazy laptimes with SOFT tires, no car setting... !
    Yesterday it happened again like I just described it, but I saved and kept the replay this time :
    I can see there is a sort of lag on all my competitors view, but not on mine.
    They have a sort of bug/lag, giving them a "boost" sometimes, with a normal acceleration like 128 129 130 and then 175 instantly, to come back at 132 133...
    I have seen a friend in front of me having a strange acceleration, and I can see in the replay his crazy acceleration.
    When in 1st gear and 2nd, everything seems good, acceleration seems normal, but when shifting in 3rd, it's instantly in high turns, there no acceleration time, so shift in 4th quickly.
    I tried his Lexus (non prototype), after and alone, in the same conditions, without car setting... and I have never seen the same strange "bug".
    This lag, is not visible on my own view, but visible on others, it seems I have 60fps, when others have 20 fps.
    It is undeniable, that the laptimes done in this lobby are fakes.

    So, what's about the internet connection speed, or the fact I use PS4Pro in 4K, not them... ?
    Is there an internet speed "bug/trick" ? Or a cheat ? Or it is because I was the only one from an other continent, server ? I use 4G instead of ADSL because it's faster for me, my rates 16/20 download, and 2,2/2,5 upload on PS4. Is a degraded connection is better ? The reason of this problem ?

    Thanks,
    I want to post the video on Youtube, but there are names. I have seen here when searching for an already existing thread on this subject, an other thread on tricks about replays with keyboard.
    (I will try to hide the names before)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  2. Skinny McLean

    Skinny McLean

    Messages:
    77
    I think this is your problem - latency is what's important for online racing, not bandwidth.
     
    TJC_69, KepleroGT and barak181 like this.
  3. JayRS200

    JayRS200

    Messages:
    419
    Hey I've raced you. Quite a lot in the past when you and your French gang were dirty. You seemed to have calmed down but the rest of them are a nasty immature bunch.

    As to the issue at hand, there was the infamous grip bug a while ago of course, but apparently that has been fixed.

    I was on my seal clubbing account a while ago and was in a public lobby with you, you didn't seem as fast as you used to be, making a lot of mistakes too. I think it's maybe you that has got a bit slower and others got a bit faster and maybe you haven't taken to a physics update or something (happened to me around Spa update). Or that you are in a slower car. I've noticed in the past you like the Mazda which you have used to good effect but that's not going to work all the time against say the GTR.


    There sometimes isn't much difference between RS and RSS, in fact I know people who are faster on RS. Margin of error is higher than what people can usually gain, at a certain skill level.

    What you're seeing in your replays isn't them cheating, that's not what's happening on their screen.
     
    TJC_69 and barak181 like this.
  4. SYLVERIS

    SYLVERIS

    Messages:
    11
    JayRS200,
    I thank you, but I don't have any gang, and dirty ? You said you was in public lobby with me, so please tell me your ID (JayRS200 ?), because I can read a lot of stupid things from you. Are you one of those hater ? You don't know what you are talking about.
    But I made a stream on my youtube channel : Sylvéris or KOULLIT, take a look and tell me I'm slower and dirty as a comment ! lol !

    What I can see on my screen is the same they can see on my own replay, it's mine. Even if their own replay is different, the laptimes are the same.
    I know these guys from months now, and it happened 2 times with me, I know who can make this time or not, depends of conditions.
    It's not because I am slower or because I don't often race without setting.
    I have enough experience on this game to know if these laptimes are right or not !
    Bye !
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  5. Famine

    Famine Administrator

    Messages:
    68,287
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Do you have any video of this?
    No.
    There would be latency issues involved there.
    And this would make it considerably worse.

    Bandwidth isn't so important with online racing - you're not streaming video, just vehicle position data - but latency is exceptionally important. Connecting over a mobile phone network to another content would cause enormous problems for everyone else unlucky enough to be in that lobby.
     
  6. SYLVERIS

    SYLVERIS

    Messages:
    11
    Hello Famine,
    Thanks for you answer.
    You know why I didn't use adsl anymore ? Because after some stupids guys joined our partys, we had been DDOS, and lost internet connection every 10 seconds. Every time I changed my IP, I was without problems for hours until I connect to PSN, and partys... So I decided to stop and use 4G.
    Since, no problem with my adsl, and I never had any issue before the haters joined our partys...
    But 4G works fine, I never heard about a lag from myself...
    The problem is on one race compare to hundreds I ever done on 4G !
    I want to post the video but there are the names, I will ask them if they are ok, or will hide the names.
    Because I don't know if it's a bug or a cheat ?
    Bye !
     
  7. Ddkklop

    Ddkklop

    Messages:
    203
    1,59 ( maybe even 1,58 but I'm not sure ), was already done on soft tyres, without any car settings/tuning. 2,00 was done on medium tyres. The reason why you were slower was probably because you weren't used on soft tyres and no tuning, unlike those other guys.
     
  8. Nuschel01

    Nuschel01

    Messages:
    3,912
    Location:
    Germany
    Playing with players from overseas sometimes causes grip to drop and making the whole lobby slower somehow. At least that‘s what I found out.

    You can press F1 on a USB connectect Keyboard to hide names in the replay.
     
  9. SYLVERIS

    SYLVERIS

    Messages:
    11
    Hello guys,
    The best way is to take a look and try yourself :

    For the "boost effect" it gives, take a look at the pictures, the time at the left bottom, and you will see this happened in few hundredth.
    The speed is boost for a little time :
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    The boost effect is here with 231 instantly !

    [​IMG]

    And you can see in this latest picture, that the boost effect start to stop, so speed slow down, but driver is always full on throttle, and there are more motor turns !


    And now, the video :



    Try to take this car alone on Mount Panorama, without setting, so with original gearbox, and soft tires, and tell me what's about the 2nd and 3rd gear, if you are easy like this ?
    There is no acceleration in 3rd, it's full instantly !

    Thanks
     
    dabz343 likes this.
  10. JayRS200

    JayRS200

    Messages:
    419
    There he goes in his Mazda haha what did I say. This guy doesn't deserve any help. One of the most dirty players I've come across and idiotic as well. Same for his friends.
     
  11. Famine

    Famine Administrator

    Messages:
    68,287
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is pure latency. Your console is guessing where his car is and what it's doing, then getting the real data several tenths of a second later and updating it with the correct position - before guessing all over again. You can hear it with the gear changes it forgets.

    Get the replay from the other player's console and it will look nothing like that.
     
    TJC_69, silverman_GT, Ddkklop and 4 others like this.
  12. Phaceless_Ph

    Phaceless_Ph

    Messages:
    278
    In some parts of France you don't have a choice because the broadband is so pathetic unless you have the money for a dedicated lease-line
     
    Skinny McLean likes this.
  13. Sage Ages

    Sage Ages

    Messages:
    12,178
    Location:
    United States
    git gud
     
    TJC_69, Darla Starch, banckzy and 2 others like this.
  14. SYLVERIS

    SYLVERIS

    Messages:
    11
    Hello guys,

    JayRS200 :
    Are you one of those guys I was forced to kick of my lobby because too slow and bother everybody ?
    " One of the most dirty players" "don't need help"...
    Instead of being a hater, don't be a kid, I invite you like a gentleman to come race with me again, because I don't remember you.
    Maybe you are fast... I don't know. Just join me and come on track, so I will be able to see you again and answer you.
    But I found your ID : JaymzVsTheWorld, and I can confirm that I don't remember to have kick you, but I remember that YOU ARE TOO SLOW to talk like this, we have common friends, interesting to have their opinion... So you are a hater now ?
    At the beginning, our friend DizzeAL was like you, he didn't want to accept to be beaten by a A/S when he is A+/S, but now he accept the idea, and we make great races almost every day.
    He is with me in the lobby at the end of my streaming on top of this thread ( at 1h02/05), it's fun because you can see his comment is : "slow dow please"... not "you are dirty" !
    You think I don't need help, but this problem happened to me just 2 times, and it can happens to others.
    The question is to know if it can happen in sport mode... it's not for me I have seen this just 2 times.

    Famine
    Yes I agree replay can be different on others account/console.
    But that doesn't explain why the lag allows to win more than 2 seconds per lap.
    And these laptimes are on every replays !
    Don't forget that I play every day, like 4/5 hours and I have seen this yesterday just for the second time compare to hundreds/thousand I already made.
    So, there is maybe an internet/server problem, but I though the game made a sort of compensation. I didn't think it will change the laptimes.

    Phaceless_Ph
    Yes but it seems I should have the benefit in this case, with a worst internet speed. But it's the opposite.

    Bye !
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  15. timekiller001

    timekiller001

    Messages:
    195
    Location:
    Germany
    I just had a look at my qualifying time the last time Group 3 and Bathurst were part of the daily races. I did a 2:02.468 on HARD tires. A 2:00.6 on softs seem very possible for me given the twisty bit of the circuit where you gain a lot when you have grip. The top drivers did a 2:01.0.
    https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/rankings.php?sec=daily&eid=21424
     
  16. George Jakob

    George Jakob

    Messages:
    1,288
    If you want someone to notice your messeges use the reply button Just saying.
     
    SmokeyMR2, silverman_GT and Pigems like this.
  17. breeminator

    breeminator

    Messages:
    1,023
    His point, though, wasn't the absolute times, but rather that the same players are doing different times with the same car depending on connection conditions in different lobbies.
     
    Knukel and Pigems like this.
  18. fastone371

    fastone371

    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    United States

    According to K speed scores Jaymes is much faster than you, he is in the low 80's and you are 67.
     
  19. George Jakob

    George Jakob

    Messages:
    1,288
    Don't bother his attitude stinks ... "You are too slow to talk like this " shake my head... were does he think he is?.
     
    JayRS200, silverman_GT and fastone371 like this.
  20. fastone371

    fastone371

    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    United States

    I ran 4 laps with the GR3 BMW RS tires and no tuning, lap 3 I went 2:01.198 and lap 4 I was 2:01.089, I'm sure if I ran a few laps I could get consistent 2:00 and I'm not even close to being fast.
     
  21. George Jakob

    George Jakob

    Messages:
    1,288
    Well then i guess i should not bother with with life anymore :lol: i run 2.09-2.11 on RH.
     
    SmokeyMR2 and fastone371 like this.
  22. dabz343

    dabz343

    Messages:
    447

    I've always enjoyed racing with SYLVERIS, and he isn't getting a fair shake here from some of you. What he raises is a fair questions, especially with GTS' unfortunate and continuing history of bugs/cheats...

    Having said that, your evidence is intriguing...but I don't have anything to add here other than that there may be something going on the technical side and/or the car in suspect is being piloted better. I have done low 2 minute laps here with stock/RS, but that was many physics changes ago. Would be interested to see what a top driver is able to achieve now?

    As for people contesting the speed and racecraft of SYLVERS, I can certainly say he is a genuine gentleman driver (with top-level speed) whom I have had many hours of fun. Looks like the other drivers in the lobby (NJ, Ellie, Smooth...) also agree...and in the end, that's what is important--skilled guys that respect each other while pushing the limit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2020
  23. Nuschel01

    Nuschel01

    Messages:
    3,912
    Location:
    Germany
    These ridiculous speed increases are only there in your game as it seems to be GTs way to update car’s positions on track that got a bad connection. In their game they just drive regulary and have a normal speed.
    There is no cheat here
     
  24. JayRS200

    JayRS200

    Messages:
    419
    What you and SALYVERIS do in your personal time to each other is off topic :lol:
     
    fastone371 likes this.
  25. SYLVERIS

    SYLVERIS

    Messages:
    11
    Hello guys,

    Thanks for your support dabz, but we have to be honest, YOU are the fastest of us ( our friends group ).
    Yesterday and the day it happens just after, we had a message I have never seen before on GTSPORT : "Server has a problem"
    At the left bottom of the screen, in yellow this time :
    [​IMG]

    So, there is maybe a relation.
    Today, everything works fine, the server works.

    To all the readers of this thread, I have to tell it one more time :

    I'm not a top 10 driver, my best is ~100th on World Time trial.
    All the drivers in this lobby are friends and we all know who is usually faster or not, whatever the lobby settings (we are often very closed by the way).

    The question is not to know if X driver is able to do this lap time here or here !

    I'm searching to understand why the game itself can't synchronize everybody, when it appears to have big internet speed connection differences between drivers?
    It seems the time itself is not respected, it allows you to do a usual 2'03'000 travel in 2'00'000, but THIS IS AN EXAMPLE, I know some of you can do this lap time, I'm not stupid !

    It happens to me, just 2 times ! It is the second one I can see, and I'm playing from the first day.

    So, I think to a "game/server bug", when it can't fine synchronize everybody ?
    But, I heard so many things about the way to "cheat" with a voluntarily slowed internet speed, that I wanted to know if it can be possible here ?
    I don't say that my friends have cheat, somebody can have a really slower internet speed one day, and it's not his fault.

    I saw another "strange" thing like this with big differences between lap times in qualification and race, yesterday :
    In qualification : I was able to do 1'45'000, 1'44'000 after 3/4 laps, and my french friend was able to do 1'43'000, when we are usually very closed.
    But when in race, I was instantly able to do 1'43'000, and because my friend was first and me 2nd on grid I was able to compare, without overtaking him to see... and we did closed lap times.

    Today it's written "server is ok" so, I will try today like everyday, maybe I will not see this type of problems anymore...

    BUT, THE GAME IS SUPPOSED TO SYNCHRONIZE EVERYBODY, SO RACERS INTERNET SPEED DIFFERENCES ARE A REAL PROBLEM OR NOT ?

    Thanks,
    Bye !
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  26. Famine

    Famine Administrator

    Messages:
    68,287
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Latency will always be a thing, but it does not make people lap any faster or slower.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
    fastone371, Pigems and George Jakob like this.
  27. Phaceless_Ph

    Phaceless_Ph

    Messages:
    278
    Wasn't there a known glitch carried over from Gran Turismo 6 where the last people to join a lobby would typically feel like they have less grip?
     
    Knukel likes this.
  28. Azerach

    Azerach

    Messages:
    194
    You allowed tuning so they cranked up the horsepower and lowered the weight.

    Edit: maybe I was too quick reading your post if this happened to your friend who had no tuning done. Disregard.
     
  29. Skinny McLean

    Skinny McLean

    Messages:
    77
    Anecdotally, the question of how to synchronise distant clocks (e.g. clocks on different train stations) was what started Albert Einstein's work on the special theory of relativity.

    Because information can't travel from A to B instantaneously, what you're seeing on your screen and racing against is the result of your PS4 extrapolating the state of other players (e.g. position/speed/acceleration) from the last packets it received. If, upon receiving new information, the extrapolation turns out to be wrong, your PS4 updates the state, which can result in seemingly strange behavior (stranger the higher the latency.)
     
    kjeldsen, fastone371 and Pigems like this.
  30. breeminator

    breeminator

    Messages:
    1,023
    Slipstream?
     
    Pigems likes this.