Is a hard drive REALLY required?
- Thread starter Jedi2016
- 68 comments
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- 1,262
If they make HD smaller than the capacity of the blu rays disc how do pirates use the HDs in their favour?
They are going to have to keep memory cards otherwise what the hell is the point of backward compalibility*.
They are going to have to keep memory cards otherwise what the hell is the point of backward compalibility*.
- 1,262
^O I C.
Well I hope they make a hd that way they can update games, like maps and etc. Custom music would be awesome, and anything else that would make the ps3 feel more PC like.
Well I hope they make a hd that way they can update games, like maps and etc. Custom music would be awesome, and anything else that would make the ps3 feel more PC like.
- 300
custom music would really rock but i dont think its nessascary. even so couldnt that be possible through memory sticks?. perhaps softmodding might be cool. but i dont really see what else is nessascary about a hard drive
Custom music is almost a must now adays..
I can't tell you how mant games i've played that the soundtrack is the most obnoxious thing i've ever heard...
Some yeah, are wonderful..
but it should still be an option..
I would love if developers/proggers etc..would make the game save based off of triggers..
but that would be billions of triggers.....So..that aint happening..
1byte files that would just trigger a point in a game..
that would save sOOOO much space..
as for HD size..
My 8GB HD in my X box still has 5000 blocks left and I have about 300 songs on there..along with a plethera of game saves
I can't tell you how mant games i've played that the soundtrack is the most obnoxious thing i've ever heard...
Some yeah, are wonderful..
but it should still be an option..
I would love if developers/proggers etc..would make the game save based off of triggers..
but that would be billions of triggers.....So..that aint happening..
1byte files that would just trigger a point in a game..
that would save sOOOO much space..
as for HD size..
My 8GB HD in my X box still has 5000 blocks left and I have about 300 songs on there..along with a plethera of game saves
- 4,004
- Croatia
HDD would do a major changes in both PS experience, as well as for GT series.
I'll skip the console part and highliht just few benefits that GT would got with some smart programming and HDD inclusion/support:
- scratches, dirt and damage on liveries could be saved and transferred,
- skid marks would be possible together with "personal" racing-lines,
- track damage could become reality,
- enormous level of modifications (set-ups) could be done for every car,
- in-race saves would become reality (if KY would allow them due to "GT philosophy issues" of course
),
- infinite amounts of data could be saved (replay, high-speeds, lap times, number of gear changes, telemetry, etc..),
- not ot speak about the photo-mode,
- the different sized: tyres, rims, aeerodynamic parts, etc. would become possible to implement,
- anf the whole game-structure could be owerworked.
Just to point few benefits which are impossible without HDD.
I'll skip the console part and highliht just few benefits that GT would got with some smart programming and HDD inclusion/support:
- scratches, dirt and damage on liveries could be saved and transferred,
- skid marks would be possible together with "personal" racing-lines,
- track damage could become reality,
- enormous level of modifications (set-ups) could be done for every car,
- in-race saves would become reality (if KY would allow them due to "GT philosophy issues" of course
),- infinite amounts of data could be saved (replay, high-speeds, lap times, number of gear changes, telemetry, etc..),
- not ot speak about the photo-mode,
- the different sized: tyres, rims, aeerodynamic parts, etc. would become possible to implement,
- anf the whole game-structure could be owerworked.
Just to point few benefits which are impossible without HDD.
amar212HDD would do a major changes in both PS experience, as well as for GT series.
I'll skip the console part and highliht just few benefits that GT would got with some smart programming and HDD inclusion/support:
- scratches, dirt and damage on liveries could be saved and transferred,
- skid marks would be possible together with "personal" racing-lines,
- track damage could become reality,
- enormous level of modifications (set-ups) could be done for every car,
- in-race saves would become reality (if KY would allow them due to "GT philosophy issues" of course
- infinite amounts of data could be saved (replay, high-speeds, lap times, number of gear changes, telemetry, etc..),
- not ot speak about the photo-mode,
- the different sized: tyres, rims, aeerodynamic parts, etc. would become possible to implement,
- anf the whole game-structure could be owerworked.
Just to point few benefits which are impossible without HDD.
Not to take away from any of the post, I just have some ideas.
- scratches, dirt and damage on liveries could be saved and transferred,
But this really doesn't add anything to gameplay?
- skid marks would be possible together with "personal" racing-lines,
The System memory is high enough now I think that it would be possible without HDD
- track damage could become reality,
eh...track damage rarely occurs, and it's only if you crash really. I'd prefer oil spills etc.
- enormous level of modifications (set-ups) could be done for every car,
Blu-Ray will make this possible on it's own
- in-race saves would become reality (if KY would allow them due to "GT philosophy issues" of course
),I agree, KY just wouldn't let it happen
- infinite amounts of data could be saved (replay, high-speeds, lap times, number of gear changes, telemetry, etc..),
That wouldn't need an HDD, just implementation on behalf of PD. Replay's can contain that info, and in a way, they do, it's the analyzer.
- not ot speak about the photo-mode,
true
- the different sized: tyres, rims, aeerodynamic parts, etc. would become possible to implement,
this is more of a physics issue with the PD team. Because larger wheels change the car in large ways, and it just hasn't been implimented. We'll see if they do it this time.
- anf the whole game-structure could be owerworked.
Just my 0.02 cents
- 30,061
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
I think you missunderstood this bit, he said set ups not parts to buy for your car. The setups are stored on other memory not the disks. One setup won't take much memory but if GT5 has a similar number of cars to 4 then 3 setups per car is a lot, now say, a setup for each track for each car and a memory card wouldn't fit it in. Not that I see myself ever having that many setups though.tha_con
- 4,004
- Croatia
tha_conNot to take away from any of the post, I just have some ideas.
....
Just my 0.02 cents
Hmm.. every point I've stated needs HDD. System RAM just can't hold lots of info and transfer it onto save.
As for scratches and other - it woud add visual component to mechanical wear and it could apply new way of credits-management due to a need to repair chasis, change colour and so on. Definately adding to an gameplay management-wise. Not possible without HDD since MC just isn't "designed" to work with that kind of data.
As for racing lines - take a look at Mercedes-Benz World Racing on Xbox - just because HDD the racing line-dirt and skidmarks (not on my favorite list, but many would love to see them) are possible and transferrable trough races. SRAM is not enough, no way.
As for data, I'm a DataHo, but my Horeism just can't live without the HDD. Only first two games on Psone had an option to look trough complete race replay (99 laps), and only the first GT had an option to look all the lap-times trough race at the end. Also, first GT was only game that tracked and listed records for certain tracks after the race with displaying them in-race. Only the GT2 had an option to view highest speed, and only GT2 had a decent TimeTrial data management. So, almost every comprehensive data management was lost after the jump on more powerful system, which is a nonsence, but is understandable. RAM was applied to more important sources instead of data managament. HDD would solve that problem too.
To make it short, HDD would be more then welcomed.
- 8,049
- Horbury, West Yorkshire
- GTP_Sprite
I agree Jedi, to me a HDD, in the ps3 will be more or less useless. one thing it would use one for though is to Save my saves to 
Other than that im not sure what i would use one for, but if the PS3 has to have one to run, and not just been included as an insentive to buy then i guessits a good idea, as i would like to play on it. I dont play music while driving, and im not bothered about using it for the internet and downloadable content.
Other than that im not sure what i would use one for, but if the PS3 has to have one to run, and not just been included as an insentive to buy then i guessits a good idea, as i would like to play on it. I dont play music while driving, and im not bothered about using it for the internet and downloadable content.The HDD would be very easy to "push" if they would release it with a killer application.
For example.
If GT5 were to release on the same day, but not with, the HDD, this would be sony's best bet.
Include extra's on the HDD. That alone would push sales, even if no other game used it, it would push SOME HDD's. Basically if the HDD came with 10 extra tracks, the ability to use your own soundtracks, and sped up load times, it woudl be golden.
It's not too hard for developers to create a game that seeks out the HDD before booting, and then enables certain features (caching, etc). However this is where the problem lies...
You see, most developers will not implement it because the money never comes back to them. They can continue to provide upgrades, but they don't see that money. The HDD sales go straight to sony, not the developer. So, if developers spend the extra money to support the HDD in any way, they will never see that profit. While it's a good sales line, the money will still flow in just the same. However, if they were to sell content online, then I'm more than positive they would add in HDD support for those who have it.
It's not difficult, however the profits aren't there, so it probably won't happen.
For example.
If GT5 were to release on the same day, but not with, the HDD, this would be sony's best bet.
Include extra's on the HDD. That alone would push sales, even if no other game used it, it would push SOME HDD's. Basically if the HDD came with 10 extra tracks, the ability to use your own soundtracks, and sped up load times, it woudl be golden.
It's not too hard for developers to create a game that seeks out the HDD before booting, and then enables certain features (caching, etc). However this is where the problem lies...
You see, most developers will not implement it because the money never comes back to them. They can continue to provide upgrades, but they don't see that money. The HDD sales go straight to sony, not the developer. So, if developers spend the extra money to support the HDD in any way, they will never see that profit. While it's a good sales line, the money will still flow in just the same. However, if they were to sell content online, then I'm more than positive they would add in HDD support for those who have it.
It's not difficult, however the profits aren't there, so it probably won't happen.
amar212
I seemed to misunderstand a few of your points earlier, but now I understand a bit more...so...naturally, more input
As for scratches and other - it woud add visual component to mechanical wear and it could apply new way of credits-management due to a need to repair chasis, change colour and so on. Definately adding to an gameplay management-wise. Not possible without HDD since MC just isn't "designed" to work with that kind of data.
I thought you were talking about terrain damage etc, not car damage. While I agree that this is a feature that would be cool, it most certainly does not require a harddrive. Car damage is often programmed in levels and areas, so the data required to remember car damage would basically consist of : area a, 45% damage, arera b, 88% damage, etc.
The only thing that would change this is if they do in fact include true realtime physics intensive damge, which is "promised" but I really don't see it happening.
Also, remember that GT4 had what, a 1.4MB game save? That will hold all of the cars, with three set ups per car, b-spec driver skills, and all game completion information (license tests/times, etc). With much more space disposable to the user (an average of 128MB, which is about a $30 memory stick). With 16 times the storage space available, they can make game saves 16MB easy, which would hold TONS of information, since all game save data is binary only. Think of a 16MB email that is ONLY text. That is what a gamesave would consist of. So saving that information to a stick would be fine. And the 512MB of total physical memory is more than enough to deal with 16 cars, the environment, and damage, at the same time.
As for racing lines - take a look at Mercedes-Benz World Racing on Xbox - just because HDD the racing line-dirt and skidmarks (not on my favorite list, but many would love to see them) are possible and transferrable trough races. SRAM is not enough, no way.
Transferrable through races, probably not going to happen without a harddrive...but that not realistic anyway. With 14+ cars running on a track you are NOT going to know what "skid marks and race line" is yours. I just don't see the point of keeping them in other races, they'll change within the first few laps anyway. You have to adjust based on tire wear, road conditions, etc, so having them there will change your race line against your will, if you keep the same race line each time through, you'll lose time.
As for data, I'm a DataHo, but my Horeism just can't live without the HDD. Only first two games on Psone had an option to look trough complete race replay (99 laps), and only the first GT had an option to look all the lap-times trough race at the end. Also, first GT was only game that tracked and listed records for certain tracks after the race with displaying them in-race. Only the GT2 had an option to view highest speed, and only GT2 had a decent TimeTrial data management. So, almost every comprehensive data management was lost after the jump on more powerful system, which is a nonsence, but is understandable. RAM was applied to more important sources instead of data managament. HDD would solve that problem too.
This also does not require an HDD. They just need to upgrade the analyzer from a visual standpoint to more data. All they have done through the last 4 GT games is stream line it so it's less complex. They've dumbed it down, not because of dedicating memory, but because the average user doesn't use it, so they tossed it out. Saving this information is a small task, it's all binary, so it's not "a lot of data" so to speak. I have faith that, if they did this, with PS3, there would be no problem with this information, however, I still feel it will be dumbed down yet again, for hte general crowd.
- 5,051
- Labounti
I think amar is thinking about what GT4 could have had on PS2. GT4 used 2mb to store all 700+ car and setup data. 2mb for ps3 is nothing. If PC games dont require 256mb of video then console games dont need all of it for just video. None of that would be impossible but you have to save your game some how, the required data would go there.
this is just what i think
Edit: The psp already uses larger than ps2 game saves, taking advantage of larger capacity storage.
this is just what i think
Edit: The psp already uses larger than ps2 game saves, taking advantage of larger capacity storage.
LaBounti
Just as I said, it will store more information, just because the space is there to store it on.
GT4 really leaves a lot of stuff out, mainly because they know not everyone has a fresh 8MB card waiting for storage of only GT4. GT5 should be a different case, as the smallest MemoryStick Pro Duo anyone would buy would be $64 (which is around $25 I think?).
Heck, I just got back from the store and saw the 128MB Memory Stick Pro Duo for $37. I'm sure online you can find it for $30 easily. I found the 256MB for around $47 last night, if not cheaper than that.
Not to mention in ten months, I'm sure the prices on these will come down significantly. I can see a 256MB memory stick running at $39.99 in ten months.
While we're on the subject of hard drives, can someone explain to me why so many Xbots believe that having a hard drive shortens load times? 'Cause I'm not seeing it. Short of actually installing the game onto the hard drive, I don't see how it's able to load anything faster than just the DVD drive by itself.
I've heard some people say that the Xbox "pre-loads" sections of the game, caching it on the hard drive until it's needed, so that there's no loading when you go into a new area. But how is this any different from the in-game streaming that's been in use since before PS2 even launched? The original Soul Reaver on PS1 featured streaming.. the only "loading" screen was when you first started playing, after that it was seamless. And done without a hard drive.
I've heard some people say that the Xbox "pre-loads" sections of the game, caching it on the hard drive until it's needed, so that there's no loading when you go into a new area. But how is this any different from the in-game streaming that's been in use since before PS2 even launched? The original Soul Reaver on PS1 featured streaming.. the only "loading" screen was when you first started playing, after that it was seamless. And done without a hard drive.
Tell that to the PS2 owners who baught it. Increased their startup time by what? 15 seconds?
Required them to put in a boot disk for it....
It was just dumb..
I knwo the Ps3 will be alot more "organized" than the ps2's effort.
But I really don't see a use for it to the point that everyones saying.
Yes Save files can be bigger..
.....
so?
What does that accomplish?
I've yet to really have any "problems" with the way games save now adays.
Wouldn't MORE information saved just mean longer load times?
Required them to put in a boot disk for it....
It was just dumb..
I knwo the Ps3 will be alot more "organized" than the ps2's effort.
But I really don't see a use for it to the point that everyones saying.
Yes Save files can be bigger..
.....
so?
What does that accomplish?
I've yet to really have any "problems" with the way games save now adays.
Wouldn't MORE information saved just mean longer load times?
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
Driftster
First of all, an HDD would make the PS3 more like PC games where you can save, anywhere.
Second, it could do an initial loading then that was long, but then cut down the ingame loading to almost nothing.(remember the first Ridge Racer?)
Third, it gives the ability for patches and whatnot.
I consider the patchin ETC..updates all "saves"...so yeah I understand that much..
it COULD do all that, but wouldn't that be up to the game developers?
They could have you load EVERYTHING right then and there if they wanted.
I mean look at Legacy of Kain...It had a long intial loading...And more loading every 20 seconds of gameplay.
And i'd still like to know why saving MORE per save file is so great...i'm just inquisitive on that one.
it COULD do all that, but wouldn't that be up to the game developers?
They could have you load EVERYTHING right then and there if they wanted.
I mean look at Legacy of Kain...It had a long intial loading...And more loading every 20 seconds of gameplay.
And i'd still like to know why saving MORE per save file is so great...i'm just inquisitive on that one.
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
Driftster
Yes, but in a sequel to Legacy of Kain, they really got that streaming down to a science.
Larger save files is good for two reasons. One, it can let the developers spend more time on the game then getting the save file down to a "reasonable" size for a memory card. Two, it can save more detailed info. I mean, there's going to be damage in GT5 right? So chances are if you mess up your car and save it, that data will be in there. Taking of the choke hold save file sizes is a great thing. Look at games like RPG Maker and Fighter Maker. They can only be as large as your Memory card. with a HDD, you can really make your own game.
Oh, and I'm just plain sick of spending money on memory cards.
Driftster
If this is in reference to the growin file size present on PSP and my comments, then I'll explain.
Larger file sizes allow for more data logging. I.e. We'll take GT4.
If the file saves were larger, they could hold more information such as:
o More Car Configurations
o More Track information: (Track times, lap times, sector times, top speeds, shift points, bad race lines, etc)
o More Statistics: (favorite tracks, favorite cars, worst track, best track, worst car, etc etc)
There's much more, but this just allows for more 'depth' so to speak. Larger saves just allow for more information to be stored, thus increasing the depth possible in games (this can be applied to much more, especially RPG's etc).
It goes hand in hand that larger drives will result in larger file saves, simply because the space is available for more information. Though they sizes aren't astonishingly different, usually the difference is minimal.
I think what I'm hoping for most is the ability to keep track records during multiplayer games.
i.e. if or when (lmao) GT goes onilne, I'd love to have the ability to save the race data of all the people racing on the track.
It would allow me to compare my lines to theirs, my shift times to theirs, my breaking etc to theirs. I think that would be the ultimate tool as far as getting better in a GT game. It would allow everyone to learn from each other etc. I am hoping for something like this FAR more than I am hoping for damage.
i.e. if or when (lmao) GT goes onilne, I'd love to have the ability to save the race data of all the people racing on the track.
It would allow me to compare my lines to theirs, my shift times to theirs, my breaking etc to theirs. I think that would be the ultimate tool as far as getting better in a GT game. It would allow everyone to learn from each other etc. I am hoping for something like this FAR more than I am hoping for damage.
You know what would eliminate all that comparison?
If somehow..someone came up with a series of green yellow and red arrows along the track that gave you the best race line...
Hah, jk.
But, of course(me digging too deep into the game) you'd have redo alot of the game or atleast patch it constantly as more and more people figure out loopholes in the game/tracks/cars to allow for faster times...
but what I really hope for..is fastest time around the track w/ any car..
And fastest time around the track w/ the car you're using both being displayed...
Because I'd personally love to see my name next to the top time for say a Mira Traxx, but still get like DEAD last in the overall bests
If somehow..someone came up with a series of green yellow and red arrows along the track that gave you the best race line...
Hah, jk.But, of course(me digging too deep into the game) you'd have redo alot of the game or atleast patch it constantly as more and more people figure out loopholes in the game/tracks/cars to allow for faster times...
but what I really hope for..is fastest time around the track w/ any car..
And fastest time around the track w/ the car you're using both being displayed...
Because I'd personally love to see my name next to the top time for say a Mira Traxx, but still get like DEAD last in the overall bests
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
tha_con
Same hear. Damage doesn't really interest me. I know it's not realistic, but it's a video game, sometimes too much realism takes from the fun.
Anyway, with a HDD you could have mulitple saves of any game. This could be a useful feature when you want to experiment.
