what would be faster?
I'd say drift
I'd say drift
is drifting faster?
- Thread starter speed dorifto
- 159 comments
- 16,977 views
I alway go faster
in drifting you enter a turn at about 90 miles per hour and exit at about 100. in grip racing you enter at 60 and exit at 70. all the speed were from the corkscrew turn in laguna seca.
- 596
Exhibition drifting is almost always slower. But drifting at very slight angles like 10-15 degrees maximize traction, the wheels arent actually sliding the are just kinda crawling sideways. That is almost always faster and that is what the terms Drifting really means. They sideways stuff with a lot of counter steer should be classified as sliding or exhibition drifting. Do a search you will find more info, dont believe all of it though most of it is wrong.
"Drifting is that fine line of control just before an uncontrolled skid. In racing, a car is usually considered to be drifting when all of its wheels are slipping, but the front wheels are still more-or-less pointed in the direction of the corner, or at least straight. Beyond that, when the car gets more sideways and even harder to control, its sliding. Drifting is the fastest way through a corner, and makes full use of the tires capabilities. But sliding is not the fastest way. Although sliding sideways, with the tail of the car hanging out and the steering in full opposite lock, looks spectacular, its slow. And it causes excessive tire wear. (Taken from the GT2 manual and can be found here http://www.geocities.com/go2initiald/main.html )
- 17
if you can drift faster than you can race your not doing something right....
- 270
in a few corners drifting is faster like the one after the corkscrew.
- 17
Although i'm talking about overall lap times not individual corners
If your drifting lap time is faster then your racing laptime, your probably doing something wrong during your racing. The only real racing advantage drifting has, is it allows you to enter a corner @ higher speeds, possibly putting you in front of an apponent who had to break hard to execute the turn. You could certianly use this to your advantage to block the apponent through and after the turn. Other then that, drifting is just a fun way to complete a course. 
- 596
Thanks, I think i know quite a lot about drifting but i don't practice enough to be fast. I'm sure your lap times would be a few seconds faster on each track.
- 1,079
i think drifter is faster like akina saids, grip drift is fast, its how skill you are with your technique, although i use grip race more but its harder to turn and with two player, drifting is faster then grip, thats all folks
- 1,032
- Osillion
ok people...lets talk physics. the tire itself has its own limits of grip. when you exceed these limits, the tire is no longer doing its job and you might as well have a car with caster wheels. When a tire exceeds its grip in one direction, it CANNOT send MORE grip into another direction. If all of your power is going into accelerating, you have no grip to turn, and vise versa. when you exceed these limits, the tires spin and smoke. the OPTIMUM situation is to be at the absolute limit of the tires. under the limit will not perform as well, and neither will exceeding the limit. drift is absolutely exceeding the limit, and when drift is done properly, much slower than a grip technique. why do you think formula one cars don't drift..why do you think Moto GP bikes don't drift...because its SLOWER. Now where drifting is an advantage..Rally, and only Rally. Because gravel/dirt rolls, its contact surface stays with the tire as the tire rolls over it, this causes a loss of traction, however the tires are still gripping quite a bit to the rolling debris. this allows controlled drifts that are FASTER than if someone were to try to grip drift on the slippery surface. anyone who wants to prove laws of science wrong, bring it on...
- 1,446
I'm sure in a perfect world, when we can all take the same, perfect line without making mistakes, gripping is the better choice over drift racing. But can you really apply real life physics to ANY racing game? If it's GT3 we're talking about, I think it takes balance of losing and using the grip of the rear tires to get the best times. But hey, I'm not the fastest nor most experienced driver in the world, so I could be wrong.
- 1,032
- Osillion
what do you think GT3 uses as its engine??? ITS PHYSICS DRIVEN!! everything around you is physics!! it takes physics to pick up a glass of water! of course science is applied. the developers entered NUMBERS on GT3 to get what you're playing. if those numbers are wrong, then the cars will not react the way cars are supposed to! please don't respond if you don't know what your talking about 
this convo is over, you want a better answer than me it's gotta come from trueno86 or a physics prof.
this convo is over, you want a better answer than me it's gotta come from trueno86 or a physics prof.
- 1,446
I meant no offense by what I said. But I'm just saying, the cars may be physics driven, but what about such things as the world outside of the car.
I don't see anything pertaining to the effects of wind, temperature, or any of the other real world climate qualities that have an effect on a track or person. When you drive, you're feet, arms and mind all get tired. It's a little better maybe with the steering wheel, but when it comes to using a controller, all the physics of real life driving are pretty much shot out of the blue. But it's practically impossible to inorcoporate all the properties of the real world in a video game. It's "The Real Driving Simulation" compared to other video games, not compared to real life. But that's just how I see it. I apologize for any offense anyone may take from anything I said. No hard feelings.
I don't see anything pertaining to the effects of wind, temperature, or any of the other real world climate qualities that have an effect on a track or person. When you drive, you're feet, arms and mind all get tired. It's a little better maybe with the steering wheel, but when it comes to using a controller, all the physics of real life driving are pretty much shot out of the blue. But it's practically impossible to inorcoporate all the properties of the real world in a video game. It's "The Real Driving Simulation" compared to other video games, not compared to real life. But that's just how I see it. I apologize for any offense anyone may take from anything I said. No hard feelings.
- 596
Outside elements like fatigue, wind, and temperature are all irrelevant, since they can be considered constants in an equation (dont make me explain that). Like lanevo said once wheels start sliding they lose traction thus decreasing turning speed. Static friction is always greater than Dynamic friction, and when turning you want the wheels to provide the most amount of friction possible, so you dont want to be sliding. But when a tire has reached its limit it does slip a little, not much though; it also does that crawling thing I talked about before. If the tire is slipping but not sliding it is providing the most possible traction. The amount of this slipping is called a drift or slip angle and it is how all pro-drivers drive even F1 and Nascar. I watched a race this weekend it was Cascar, or something, they were on a road course and you could see they were using slip angles. Once you get over a certain angle like 15 degrees, or something, the tires start sliding and you slow down. GT3 drifting at higher angles is only beneficial at the beginning and middle of a turn with a car that understeers like a nuts (i.e GT40 and some AWD cars). Im not sure if this is true in real life, but I assume its just faster to set the car up in a way that does not understeer.
The physics of GT3 can only simulates the way a car moves in real life. And no mater how good the physics get they will never simulate the feeling of driving a car at its limits. Even if they strap video camera to a car, and set it up so that it can be driven from a PS2 controller.
And yes, no hard feelings
Drifting is EXTREMELY Slow compared to gripping the ground..The idea of drifting is you keep the car moving As fast as possible for the longest amount of time..That does not nessicarily mean you're taking the fastest path..The fastest path will always be by sticking directly to the apex curving...If Drifting was faster, F1 cars would be sliding all over the place.
- 1,446
TruenoAE86, you sure are a machine. But might I ask you one other thing. Say you had two cars exactly alike at 150 hp each. But, the suspension and such were tuned differently. One for drift control and one for gripping. Now throw them both into a track with a whole lot of corners. Both drivers were masters of their individual trade. (Grip driving and Drifting) Which do you think, in your humble opinion would get the faster lap time. I'm not trying to prove a point, just looking for the opinion. ^_^
would get the faster lap time. I'm not trying to prove a point, just looking for the opinion. ^_^
- 2,987
i disagree... you got two cars going at the same hp so strait away acc doesnt matter. what matters is who can get in the corner first and fastest and out of that corner. that is where the race will be won. the "grip" driving person will have to brake longer or harder before entering the corner than the one drifting through it. and depending on the corner the drfting (if used correctly for speed and not for show) will get the driver out at a higher speed and in less time. note i am not talking about a person who is uselessy drifint when they could be gripping the tarmac ok... because the gripper cannot get infront of the the drifter in the turns and they have cars with the same hp the drfiter will have the opportunity again depending on the curve to block passage and thus maintain the lead with higher exit speed. again the drifting must be used for speed not for show and the driver must understand that excessive drifting will slow him/her down. in this way in a race of evenly matched lower powered cars the drifter has a good chance of winning due to strategy and technique.
the reason y highpowered cars do not drift is because it would be increadibly dangerous to drift in a car that can accelerate like a f1 car (esp when people are racing against others unlike the only rally where people drift and are not racing directly against others). i dont think that lm or f1 need to drift because that is not the point of either type of racing... its speed of course but also staying power never until the last 50 or so laps do those cars push themselves to the very edge. it would take guts, faith in yourself and your car and godlike accuracy to do such a thing in real life.
this is just my opinion and no one here whould be trying to force there views on the fastest way to drive on anyone else. just let them race you and find out for themself when gt4 comes out lol
the reason y highpowered cars do not drift is because it would be increadibly dangerous to drift in a car that can accelerate like a f1 car (esp when people are racing against others unlike the only rally where people drift and are not racing directly against others). i dont think that lm or f1 need to drift because that is not the point of either type of racing... its speed of course but also staying power never until the last 50 or so laps do those cars push themselves to the very edge. it would take guts, faith in yourself and your car and godlike accuracy to do such a thing in real life.
this is just my opinion and no one here whould be trying to force there views on the fastest way to drive on anyone else. just let them race you and find out for themself when gt4 comes out lol
- 596
Originally posted by vinkento
TruenoAE86, you sure are a machine. But might I ask you one other thing. Say you had two cars exactly alike at 150 hp each. But, the suspension and such were tuned differently. One for drift control and one for gripping. Now throw them both into a track with a whole lot of corners. Both drivers were masters of their individual trade. (Grip driving and Drifting) Which do you think, in your humble opinion
On a track the grip car will win easily, even if they don't use slip angles. Now on a downhill it could be a different story. Like they point out in initial D many times that, circuit races require circuit racing skills and mountain races requires mountain racing skills. Now Im not saying initial D is realistic, but they do say some stuff that makes sense every once in a while. In a new issue of best motoring the drift king takes a tuned AE86 and races a stock R34 down a mountain. I have never seen the movie but it says that the Drift king wins a few, and loses a few races. The AE86 has a tuned suspension and I think 165-175 hp and they say that he drifts I dont know how much though.
Good points bengee, if the drift driver got in front of the grip driver on the fist corner he could theoretically just stay in front the whole time, but I think the superior exit speed of the grip driver will allow him to pass in the end. The fact remains that even when the Drift king races on a racetrack he does not drift. From what I have heard; he would only drift on some of the downhill corners and this would give him a slight advantage over other drivers. But when ever I have seen him race on Tskuba (or whatever its called) he does not drift. Except in the way I have described before
- 1,446
Great points made there TruenoAE86.
But that gave me a thought. I don't think we should make the mistake that driving alone, a gripper would be a ton faster than a drifter would be on any course. But I was just thinking about the entry speed.
From what you said about the 86 and R32, if they were both as good as they could be, I can imagine that, because the entry speed of a drifter should theoretically be faster than that of a gripper, would it also make sense that as long as neither make mistakes and both had the same hp, the drifter would most likely win the race because it would be easier for him to keep the gripper behind him rather than visa versa?
This leads me to the point that in a race, the person who would most likely finish first under most circumstances should be the drifter (though his alone lap time would be much slower than the gripper's). Tell me what you think. ^_^
But that gave me a thought. I don't think we should make the mistake that driving alone, a gripper would be a ton faster than a drifter would be on any course. But I was just thinking about the entry speed.
From what you said about the 86 and R32, if they were both as good as they could be, I can imagine that, because the entry speed of a drifter should theoretically be faster than that of a gripper, would it also make sense that as long as neither make mistakes and both had the same hp, the drifter would most likely win the race because it would be easier for him to keep the gripper behind him rather than visa versa?
This leads me to the point that in a race, the person who would most likely finish first under most circumstances should be the drifter (though his alone lap time would be much slower than the gripper's). Tell me what you think. ^_^
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