Is Extreme Racism a Mental Illness?

[Sureboss]

You should see Booh-Bah. They are even worse! I'm stuck watching it when I am watching my baby sister.

The news said something about stopping the "Chubby Tubbies." They say that they are raising kids to be dim-witted and homosexual.

EDIT: Mods, is it okay to use the word homosexual here? If not, I will be glad to edit this out. Just restating what the news said.

Sorry that really is hilarious, news channels have a problem with the Teletubbies due to them attempting to raise kids as dim-witted and homosexual? Or have I mis-read you?

Also, the word homosexual is probably fine on here, obviously within certain contexts, etc.

 

[EXelero]

The moment you make Racism a mental illness, you give those who kill a 'get out' in court. Mental illness can be twisted on grounds of insanity. Not good....

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Sorry that really is hilarious, news channels have a problem with the Teletubbies due to them attempting to raise kids as dim-witted and homosexual? Or have I mis-read you?

Also, the word homosexual is probably fine on here, obviously within certain contexts, etc.

Correct, just like when they called spongebob gay.

 

[Sureboss]

Skinhead, biceps and tattoos are the way forward!

 

[Tornado]

The moment you make Racism a mental illness, you give those who kill a 'get out' in court. Mental illness can be twisted on grounds of insanity. Not good....

Bingo. All it would do would make people less responsible for their actions.

I would say that racism is a thought/personal problem, but a mental disorder is going quite a bit too far. And for the extreme Racism mentioned by Joey? That probably is a mental disorder, but it most likely has nothing to do with racism. Anyone who kills and then blames it on race or something probably has schizophrenia or something to that effect, and would lash out at anyone given the circumstances.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

I still think it is a mental illness, seriously. Some guy driving a cheese bus said I'm tired of spanish people, and guess what? He was spanish, just like with Dave Chappelle with the "White Power" episode, how do people hate thier own race?

Also my old 9th grade teacher said something about racism, but it's too explicit to type here without getting banned, and she was trying to start racism rather than stop it.

WTF???

 

[Zrow]

It's not a mental illness, duh. It's just an attitude towards a certain appearance that people develop as they grow up.

Some people are probably more prone to develop these attitudes than others.

 

[Barracuda]

It's not a mental illness, duh. It's just an attitude towards a certain appearance that people develop as they grow up.

Some people are probably more prone to develop these attitudes than others.

thank you

on another note, would wishing that another race be completely eradicated be a little extreme

 

[TuneRVisioN]

I am still not convinced that it is not a mental illness... JK. I wish that there was no such thing as discrimination. The world would be a better place. You know that out of all of the Fire Fighters, only 3% are african american? You can say it's not racism, but I believe so, and again the news said so too.

 

[Barracuda]

I am still not convinced that it is not a mental illness... JK. I wish that there was no such thing as discrimination. The world would be a better place. You know that out of all of the Fire Fighters, only 3% are african american? You can say it's not racism, but I believe so, and again the news said so too.

well it depends on the percentage of black people that are aspiring to be firefighters. It may also deal with performance. Maybe in some cases the people of a different race performed better than the black person.

If it does have to deal with discrimination though, then thats not right, especially because firefighters are saving peoples lives. For example say the black person could have performed better, but because of discrimination, a slower person was picked, and now somebody has died because of that choice.

 

[Swift]

well it depends on the percentage of black people that are aspiring to be firefighters. It may also deal with performance. Maybe in some cases the people of a different race performed better than the black person.

If it does have to deal with discrimination though, then thats not right, especially because firefighters are saving peoples lives. For example say the black person could have performed better, but because of discrimination, a slower person was picked, and now somebody has died because of that choice.

Let's take this away from race for a second. In Baltimore, a female firefighter trainee was killed during a "live" training exercise. It was the first casualty of that type in years. Now there's a large investigation going on to figure out what happened and why she died. There has been an large influx of female firefighters in the Baltimore Fire dept. This is due to a recent lowering of the physical requirements so that more women would qualify. That's radically stupid! We're talking about saving people's lives in incredible tense and physically demanding situations. To lower the physical standards puts more people at risk including fellow firefighters.

To go back to race, the now Governor then mayor of Baltimore Martin Omalley saw that there were no black freshman firefighters in the city's fire dept. So he vowed to "get more African Americans into the dept!" What for? As diablo stated, if they're not applying(and they're not) then what's the problem? That's like saying the NHL is racist because there's only a few blacks playing hockey. Most black people don't play hockey! So, uh duh!

Anyway, I think that some discrimination is good and necessary. However, when it's on merits that the person has no control over such as race and gender, then that's wrong.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Yeah, my father applied to be a firefighter, and they didn't accept him, as well as 6 other people I know that applied to it, others said something about this on the train, about how many black and hispanics are getting declined from alot of jobs. But good point Swift, +Rep for that NHL comment.

 

[Danoff]

I was just discussing the most sexist person I know with @TexRex in the George Floyd thread. It occurred to me that others might benefit from a larger discussion of her and it seemed to fit in this thread (which is getting a massive dig from 13 years back). So here goes.

I know a very sexist old lady. She once told me that women should not have the right to vote. She is deferential to men in an almost unbelievable fashion. As though she truly lives by the notion that men are superior, and should be given more courtesy, attention, and credibility than women should be. It is as though she was plucked from 200 years ago and plopped right down in to modern times, as she explains that a woman's place is in the home, raising children.

(Edit: I happen to know that her parents taught her the opposite.)

This sexist old lady has been the psychological victim of an extreme narcissist for many years. Her husband's narcissism is all pervasive, and would definitely be clinically diagnosed as severe if he were to seek treatment (but narcissism prevents exactly that kind of thing). She has twisted her life into support of his narcissism for her entire adult existence. Narcissists tend to like unearned superior status (which I can't stand). So he is naturally predisposed to thinking things like that men are superior to women. But from every account I can tell, it is she who cultivates this belief of his. She's more extremely sexist than he is, and she actively and forcefully advocates for it, far more than he does. As best I can tell, the reason she does this is because sexism allows her some safety from his psychological abuse. She can cultivate some competence, and even receive praise without threatening his fragile ego by confining her competence to areas where he cannot and should not compete - in "womanly" activities like cooking, cleaning, and sewing. Any and all other areas where she might demonstrate competence must be squashed, because he will immediately become abusive if he perceives a challenge to any area where he feels he should be superior.

I would not have realized the bigotry could be cultivated out of a sense of self preservation from psychological abuse, such as this. But here you have an example of someone actively seeking the confines of sexist roles and views because it is preferable to the abuse she would otherwise receive from her husband. I dunno, I find this fascinating. She says the most vile things to other people, and about other people. And I always thought it was because she was a vile person, and she is, but more and more I come to see her as a tragic victim doing everything she can to protect her self worth from an all consuming abuser, who himself is abusive because of his own particular disorder.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I was just discussing the most sexist person I know with @TexRex in the George Floyd thread. It occurred to me that others might benefit from a larger discussion of her and it seemed to fit in this thread (which is getting a massive dig from 13 years back). So here goes.

I know a very sexist old lady. She once told me that women should not have the right to vote. She is deferential to men in an almost unbelievable fashion. As though she truly lives by the notion that men are superior, and should be given more courtesy, attention, and credibility than women should be. It is as though she was plucked from 200 years ago and plopped right down in to modern times, as she explains that a woman's place is in the home, raising children.

Edit: I happen to know that her parents taught her the opposite.

This sexist old lady has been the psychological victim of an extreme narcissist for many years. Her husband's narcissism is all pervasive, and would definitely be clinically diagnosed as severe if he were to seek treatment (but narcissism prevents exactly that kind of thing). She has twisted her life into support of his narcissism for her entire adult existence. Narcissists tend to like unearned superior status (which I can't stand). So he is naturally predisposed to thinking things like that men are superior to women. But from every account I can tell, it is she who cultivates this belief of his. She's more extremely sexist than he is, and she actively and forcefully advocates for it, far more than he does. As best I can tell, the reason she does this is because sexism allows her some safety from his psychological abuse. She can cultivate some competence, and even receive praise without threatening his fragile ego by confining her competence to areas where he cannot and should not compete - in "womanly" activities like cooking, cleaning, and sewing. Any and all other areas where she might demonstrate competence must be squashed, because he will immediately become abusive if he perceives a challenge to any area where he feels he should be superior.

I would not have realized the bigotry could be cultivated out of a sense of self preservation from psychological abuse, such as this. But here you have an example of someone actively seeking the confines of sexist roles and views because it is preferable to the abuse she would otherwise receive from her husband. I dunno, I find this fascinating. She says the most vile things to other people, and about other people. And I always thought it was because she was a vile person, and she is, but more and more I come to see her as a tragic victim doing everything she can to protect her self worth from an all consuming abuser, who himself is abusive because of his own particular disorder.

Proximity to extreme narcissism seemingly fertilizes mental illness. I think its because objective reality, effectively, ceases to exist around that person which must be extremely disorienting. One's capacity for rational thought does not square with a narcissist (just listen to the mypillow nutjob) and so I'm guessing rational thought is discarded. It's probably what happened with Trump and his extreme narcissist father (which Trump just amplified in his own persona). If only there was some way to root out this pattern in our society - the snake oil salesman thrives in a capitalist setting, especially one in which ethics are increasingly viewed as passé.

 

[Dotini]

Nationalism might have something to do with racism.

But does tribalism per se have anything to do with racism?

 

[Danoff]

the snake oil salesman thrives in a capitalist setting

I think the snake oil salesman thrives among the psychologically unprepared/uneducated. Psychological manipulation is something that still flies under the radar in basically all corners of the world.

 

[Rallywagon]

I think the snake oil salesman thrives among the psychologically unprepared/uneducated. Psychological manipulation is something that still flies under the radar in basically all corners of the world.

I think it more than flies under the radar, I think it's purposely used. Advertisements, politics, sales, media. All use some sort psychological manipulation.

 

[Danoff]

I think it more than flies under the radar, I think it's purposely used. Advertisements, politics, sales, media. All use some sort psychological manipulation.

Manipulation can be used to get people to buy things, sure. But it's not limited to that. It's used in dating, marriage, raising children, interacting with co-workers... all facets of social interaction.

I think most people don't engage in it, or at least don't knowingly engage in it. But a fair number of people would accidentally engage in it. Having learned a technique or two that they think is just good "people skills" but is actually a manipulative trick that they've used successfully in the past. And then there are people that are abusive to everyone either knowingly or unknowingly.

I'm sure it's also possible to use well know manipulative techniques in a way that is free from harm and is not deeply psychologically rooted in the person doing it. For example, I'd imagine that some of the people who animated the characters of Frozen 2 knew that they were using a manipulative technique by creating Disney Eyes, but aren't horrible people. Politicians, on the other hand, are probably generally horrible people. A lot of CEOs are likely to be as well. It's practically in the job description of CEOs and Politicians.

But you have to consider the fact that this isn't necessarily one manipulative person pulling a trick on the masses. This is the masses seeking out and anointing a person that manipulates them most successfully. The opportunist has learned what people crave, and people crave what the opportunist has learned.

 

[Karla]

I was watching an episode of Law & Order on TV and this is the issue that came up. I'm curious as to what others think about the subject.

So, is Extreme Racism a Mental Illness? Yes, it is. It is a disease that can only be cured with a mindset change. For example, if you had a disease like cancer and you were diagnosed with it, what would you expect to happen? Do you think the doctor is going to tell you that you're going to die right away? Of course not and you wouldn't be diagnosed with that disease.

 

[Keef]

Manipulation can be used to get people to buy things, sure. But it's not limited to that. It's used in dating, marriage, raising children, interacting with co-workers... all facets of social interaction.

Perhaps the difference is whether or not people know the manipulation is happening. For example, little boys don't know that society may or may not be manipulating them to fit the car guy role, but I do know that Burger King is trying to manipulate me to buy a Whopper, and I choose not to. I make the choice because I understand what is happening. The little boy simply doesn't have the capacity to do that yet. The girl I'm asking out knows that I'm going to use the tools I have to make it happen, and likewise I know she's going to use the tools she has to get a free dinner. We know and understand the manipulation, and we accept a degree of it, and we're able to separate that from our legitimate goals of developing a relationship where we can (hopefully) eschew any further manipulation. The kid - or a dumb or mentally ill person - doesn't have the ability to accept the manipulation knowing that it's temporary.

But what about all the people who don't know they're being manipulated and therefore don't have a choice? Or the people who are doing the manipulating, perhaps knowing that those they're manipulating don't know they're being manipulated? This seems to be the calling card of politics especially, duping people who don't know they're being duped.

 

[Sander 001]

"research has found that people who believe in conspiracy theories tend to have a greater need for “cognitive closure” (the desire to have an explanation when explanations are lacking) and the desire to be unique, and are more likely to have a cognitive bias called “hypersensitive agency detection” or “teleologic thinking” (whereby events are overattributed to hidden forces, purposes, and motives)." https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...elusions-conspiracy-theories-and-the-internet

I used to deal with undiagnosed mental health sufferers and it really seemed like just allowing them to go on about their thoughts calmed them down for a time.

 

[Danoff]

My opinion is that the next dsm (dsm-6?) should have a category for religious/cult belief. I don't know if it should be a pathology, per se, but something that can be recognised and "treated" if it leads to harm - whether to the individual or someone else. Would it ever happen? Doubtful, but that's what I think.

This brings into question what the definition of "insanity" or "crazy" is. A mental trap, such as a cult, is something that every human mind is at least theoretically capable of falling into, and becoming stuck in. There doesn't have to be anything physiologically wrong with the mind to be stuck in such a trap. It can happen to a healthy mind, though a poorly adjusted or under-educated healthy mind is more susceptible.

Anyone stuck in a trap should see a therapist, who I see as people who are particularly adept and trained at picking apart maladjusted mental loops. Is a therapist a health care provider? Are they treating a condition? I think maybe the answers to these questions are yes. So I'm with you, but it leaves me feeling uneasy, because there's nothing injured or ill or poorly formed about a person in a mental trap.

I could just as easily classify a therapist as a tutor or teacher about a subject that people need education in. In fact, that's what it feels like to talk to a therapist. They're largely socratic teachers, who use the socratic method to get you to learn in a more applied way so that you'll be more likely to use your knowledge on yourself. So I'm not with you. But that leaves me uneasy because I see the damage that mental traps do to a person's overall health, potentially even leading to suicide.

Interesting question.

 

[Keef]

Do you consider people in a cult to be mentally ill?

It's not to pounce on, it's to probe. A lot of the things I've recently been posting about have involved the grey areas that come when dealing with things not currently covered by law or ethics, or in this case diagnoses.

I used this as a starting guide

Are Cult Members Insane?

A new study of cult murders in the U.S. suggests that even the deepest and most disturbing convictions are no proof of mental illness—nor, some argue, should they be.

psmag.com

My opinion is that the next dsm (dsm-6?) should have a category for religious/cult belief. I don't know if it should be a pathology, per se, but something that can be recognised and "treated" if it leads to harm - whether to the individual or someone else. Would it ever happen? Doubtful, but that's what I think.

I'm responding to this in the racism/mental illness thread.

I’m no expert so I was going to respond with a simple “not necessarily”. Like Danoff said, cult members may be otherwise healthy people who were swayed toward a cause with what seemed like a good argument. It’s well documented that a common trait of cult members is some type of loneliness or lack of community and this is preyed on by cultists.

Even the concept of a cult and therefore the mental fortitude of the people involved can get muddy. Those folks who drank the Flavor Aid? Yeah. But what if they drank name brand Kool Aid, would that be as culty? What if they drank the blood of Christ every Sunday at noon, is that culty? What if they only drank Busch Light and voted Republican, is that culty?

The leaders of all of those groups I described have done the exact same thing, which is try to give gullible or needy people reasons to join their cause. And what the people get out of it is a sense of community and purpose which in other situations we’d consider very healthy.

I’d suggest maybe the antidote for this trap would be to remain skeptical of any and all arguments…but that implies trust issues which is seen as a mental issue worthy of therapy.