Is GT6 pushing PS3's hardware limit?

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I've seen a couple of threads with gamers wishing there was this and that to be in GT6.
But has PD maxed out what GT6 can accomplish on the PS3?
Or will PD implement these so called "wishlist" features in GT7 for PS4 as it has a more powerful architecture to develop with.👍
Perhaps it's too much for the PS3's hardware to handle?:odd:
What are your thoughts?:confused:
PD will blame the PS4's shortcomings as limiting factors of GT7 as well.
 
With the PS4, the graphics themselves will be upgraded a bit, so less of the jagged edges that we're seeing in GT6, but I think the main thing will be the ability to process more cars on track at the same time.
 
PD will blame the PS4's shortcomings as limiting factors of GT7 as well.

This. It doesn't matter if GT7 comes to PS4; the game will still likely be laced with bugs, broken AI, cars with inaccurate sounds, and a lack of the many other things fans have asked for throughout the series. PD had seven years to make a GT game work on PS3 and they chose instead to focus on other 'priorities' such as unnecessary features and marketing hype. GT6 has proven that PD is merely a shell of what it once was since the release of GT5: Prologue. They just don't seem to listen or care about their fans--or even the series itself--anymore.
 
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This. It doesn't matter if GT7 comes to PS4; the game will still likely be laced with bugs, broken AI, cars with inaccurate sounds, and a lack of the many other things fans have asked for throughout the series. PD had ten years to make a GT game work on PS3 and they chose instead to focus on other 'priorities' such as unnecessary features and marketing hype. GT6 has proven that PD is merely a shell of what it once was since the release of GT5: Prologue. They just don't seem to listen or care about their fans--or even the series itself--anymore.

You can't be serious, PD does indeed listen and it is clear by what we saw in updates to GT5 after it was released as well as the most recent update to GT6. Just because they did not add the feature you want does not mean they are not listening.

As for sound it could be better for sure and likely will be better even in GT6 before GT7 is released but no game that I have ever saw has "accurate" sounds for the cars when racing. PD does have spot on sounds when the cars crank over and other games have sounds that are more appealing in a race yet most sound very little like the real car.

I am pleased with the initial release of GT6 even though there are some things I would like to see that are not there as of yet. I look forward to more updates and DLC over the next year but most of all I enjoy playing the game. They added some really nice tracks and the cars drive great and these are the most important factors in any racing game. The online is lacking but we are to get an update next month that adds features to the online part of the game.

One of the most whined about items is the lack of a livery editor while this would be cool I can live with out it and we are getting a track editor that may possibly go above and beyond anything I ever imagined with the addition of the GPS tool when it arrives. I would think most people would much rather be able to create a track to drive on than a custom paint scheme for the car they are in.
 
In terms of CPU speed I would say you are correct in saying it is not a huge leap. In terms of Ram is is a huge leap and the GPU is also much better than the one in the PS3. By todays standards the PS3 has a slow GPU and very little ram. It is amazing what they have been able to do with it.

Once that ram is increased from megs to gigs and faster as well there is a lot more that can be done, less loading from disk, less compression, more room for variables and so on.

Being a developer with many years of experience I can tell you that having more ram makes a huge difference in what can be done and execution speed.

I also seem to recall Kaz saying the the GPU was weak on the PS3 and that they had found a way to offload graphics processing to the cell processors to reduce the load on the GPU and increase graphics ability. With the new GPU and additional high speed ram the CPU will be free to do other things and allow the GPU to handle the graphics

I completely agree with what you've said, but you make it seem like we haven't seen what ps4 graphics look like yet.

We know what they look like and IMO they are not that HUGE of a leap.

Most of the games that have been upgraded to run on ps4 look like crap, for example call of duty ghosts.



Killzone which was designed for the ps4 from the ground up looks much better, but its pretty "meh" imo.

GT7 will likely be ported from GT6, so I don't really know what to expect. The car models have been next gen worthy since GT5 prologue, but I really don't know how they will update everything elselike the environments. Trees and buildings and roads still look like crap in GT. And if they are simply ported to GT7 just touched up a bit it will still look pretty bad.
 
I honestly think most of the problems with GT5/6 are related to the AI.

I think every event has to be worked out in fine detail where cars are in a race to give the player some competition. They simply cannot start with all cars equal and give a player with good experience a "race" unless they do this.

This causes a "short" career mode. However if they go back to smaller fields they could run a "smarter" AI however most GT'ers would see it as a backward step.

Now with the PS4 maybe we can achieve this with the 16 man field. We pray.
 
I do not expect the graphics to be a huge leap, but graphics is not the only part of the game. Aside from some jagged edges on some textures and some frame rate drops the graphics look pretty good now. The thing is though with all that extra high speed ram and with a GPU that can process the graphics without having to offload them to the CPU there is the potential for huge improvement in all aspects of the game as well as many additional things.

Also note that you can't compare what one game is able to do at launch to what another will do in 1-2 years after launch. PD has a way of getting the most out of a system and there is a lot more there to work with.

Personally I think it is sad when people look at the graphics and use that as a measure for the games improvement. I have a few old games that by todays standards have horrible graphics yet are some of the best games ever made
 
When we talk about pushing the hardware to the limits, being ps3 or ps4, I was hoping graphics would be the last aspect to come up.
Let's be honest, GT has more glaring issues to address.
 
You can't be serious, PD does indeed listen and it is clear by what we saw in updates to GT5 after it was released as well as the most recent update to GT6. Just because they did not add the feature you want does not mean they are not listening.

As for sound it could be better for sure and likely will be better even in GT6 before GT7 is released but no game that I have ever saw has "accurate" sounds for the cars when racing. PD does have spot on sounds when the cars crank over and other games have sounds that are more appealing in a race yet most sound very little like the real car.

I am pleased with the initial release of GT6 even though there are some things I would like to see that are not there as of yet. I look forward to more updates and DLC over the next year but most of all I enjoy playing the game. They added some really nice tracks and the cars drive great and these are the most important factors in any racing game. The online is lacking but we are to get an update next month that adds features to the online part of the game.

What I'm basically saying is that PD should focus more on fixing bugs now than adding features. I agree with you that there's plenty to go by in GT6, but when the game still freezes to the point of requiring emergency console backups, for example, there's still obviously some problems. Between the 'downgraded' AI and the chassis rigidity issue, both which have yet to be fully resolved, I'm just saying that PD is off in terms of priorities for fixing the game.
 
I still do not see any real issue with the chassis other than the yellow indicator makes people think they need to restore it when in fact they do not. I have at least 4 cars that are showing yellow and they all drive just as good as when they were new.

The oil on the other hand if you changed it when the car was new will go a long time before it turns yellow after 300-400 miles you car will get slower and you will see the yellow icon on ridigity. The oil will be green but if you change the oil the car jumps right back up to where it was in performance. I ran some tests with a car that has just under 500 miles and one with 0 miles, changed the oil in both put the same tune on them then drove each of them 20 laps, no difference in laps times beyond driver inconsistency.

I also think they have created an AI that is both more fun to race against and can race with a wider group of driver skill levels. I do not see it as downgraded at all but improved, not perfect by any means but better than what was in GT 4 and 5
 
I think graphically we will see a similar improvement like FM5 in terms of lighting, effects etc. It will look much better when you consider the little details. But this isn't what has my interest peaked. Here are the huge improvements I expect.

1: Physics engine. The extra power/ram will allow for a much better physics engine. If they can implement a physics engine on par with iracing/corsa/rfactor then they will have a HUGE advantage in terms of cars and tracks. '

2: Every car needs to be premium. With the PS4 being much simpler to design for, I expect them to be able to create cars quicker and get rid of the "standards".

3: With the extra GPU/RAM of the PS4, Sonys version of "Occulus Rift" will be possible and turn GT7 into a ridiculously immersive game.

4: AI should improve...... I frankly don't even care about AI and view it as a waste of resources, but I know some people cry about it.

5: # of cars on track. This one is a biggie, I could see 25-30 cars on track which would be incredible.

6: Loading times to be improved drastically.
 
I think graphically we will see a similar improvement like FM5 in terms of lighting, effects etc. It will look much better when you consider the little details. But this isn't what has my interest peaked. Here are the huge improvements I expect.

1: Physics engine. The extra power/ram will allow for a much better physics engine. If they can implement a physics engine on par with iracing/corsa/rfactor then they will have a HUGE advantage in terms of cars and tracks. '

2: Every car needs to be premium. With the PS4 being much simpler to design for, I expect them to be able to create cars quicker and get rid of the "standards".

3: With the extra GPU/RAM of the PS4, Sonys version of "Occulus Rift" will be possible and turn GT7 into a ridiculously immersive game.

4: AI should improve...... I frankly don't even care about AI and view it as a waste of resources, but I know some people cry about it.

5: # of cars on track. This one is a biggie, I could see 25-30 cars on track which would be incredible.

6: Loading times to be improved drastically.


1.Expect the physcis engine to be a tweaked version of what we have in GT6. Don't expect an entire re-imagining.

2. This is guranteed. There is no way they will still have "standard" cars as we know them now on PS4.

3. Thats quite a dream you have there. We dont even know is GT7 will support regular old 3d, let alone any kind of virtual reality occulus rift. PS4 has dropped 3d support entirely as of now.

4. Dont expect a huge revamp. Maybe they will program it to be a bit more aggressive and defend their line and attack yours + move around the track a but more but thats about it.

5. I imagine we will see 16 cars on track.

6. PS4 has a faster BD rom and PD has learned to code things more simply so I think we will see a slight reduction in load times. But bigger files take longer to load so dont expect it to load like an Ipad game.
 
3: With the extra GPU/RAM of the PS4, Sonys version of "Occulus Rift" will be possible and turn GT7 into a ridiculously immersive game.

PD already did something similar to this in GT5: With a PlayStation Eye camera, GT5 could use face recognition technology to move the camera in cockpit view. Unfortunately it could only be used in arcade mode due to RAM, but it still has the potential. Speaking of which, I wonder whether or not they secretly kept it in GT6?
 
Yes. In fact so much that PS3 can't handle it. Lighting is amazing, any time of day but shadows can't keep up. City tracks looks awesome, not over exposed now. I think The game was made with PS4 in mind and obviously will get upgraded. They already did things on PS3 what other devs couldn't or din't even bother. But this will help them for PS4 for sure
 
1.Expect the physcis engine to be a tweaked version of what we have in GT6. Don't expect an entire re-imagining.

Not a re-imagining but a expansion. By that I mean they could have more physics calculations at any given time, which is a very very big deal.

3. Thats quite a dream you have there. We dont even know is GT7 will support regular old 3d, let alone any kind of virtual reality occulus rift. PS4 has dropped 3d support entirely as of now.

Occulus Rift isn't really 3D like what we had with GT5, it's more of a head tracking VR. You should look into the patents Rumors are building that both MS and Sony are building their own versions of Occulus Rift for consoles. So it's not really a dream when you look at whats been going on.

4. Dont expect a huge revamp. Maybe they will program it to be a bit more aggressive and defend their line and attack yours + move around the track a but more but thats about it.

I honestly don't even car about the AI. Apart from being forced to grind in GT5 seasonals for $$, I never did the career or raced against the AI. Waste of time.

5. I imagine we will see 16 cars on track.

We already have 16 cars on track, there will be a lot more in GT7. Just look at BF4 for PS4 vs PS3, huge difference in number of players allowed. I believe it was 24 for PS3/360 and 64 for PS4. HUGE difference in what the new consoles can handle.


6. PS4 has a faster BD rom and PD has learned to code things more simply so I think we will see a slight reduction in load times. But bigger files take longer to load so dont expect it to load like an Ipad game.

After playing multiple games on PS4, I can see the load times being 30% faster or more.

PD already did something similar to this in GT5: With a PlayStation Eye camera, GT5 could use face recognition technology to move the camera in cockpit view. Unfortunately it could only be used in arcade mode due to RAM, but it still has the potential. Speaking of which, I wonder whether or not they secretly kept it in GT6?

Not really the same. One requires output to two screens within the headset which creates a 3d world with a 360 degree view.
 
Can't tell, my PS3 does not seem overworked-fans are actually kicking in less.

A few months ago I installed an SSD drive, so no doubt, that's part of it.

Yes, I do get the occasional frame-rate drop, running 1080P here on a Bravia.

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No doubt, the next re-iteration of GT will look and perform better on next-gen PS4.

A few weeks ago I saw an interview of an iRacing staff member by ISR...
...he mentioned that they are exploring a "lite iRacing" version for next-gen consoles.

That tells me that the PC-sim outfits see the increased performance of PS4 as new market.
I think we are in for big changes/increased performance in the next year or two.

...nothing like a little market competition to speed up development.
 
having an SSD will reduce the amount of heat build up so that alone may be the reason for hearing less fan activity
 
having an SSD will reduce the amount of heat build up so that alone may be the reason for hearing less fan activity

Yes, no HD spinning will do that, thought that was a given, so no mention.
Conversely, upgrading bundled 5400RPM PS3 HD to 7200RPM-spec can increase the heat.
 
I'm sure they are using all the ram available and probably have worked out hundreds of tricks to make it as efficient as possible. There really is not much ram on the PS3 to work with. Some of the things they have managed to do T10 has said was not possible on the 360 with the same amount of ram and 16 cars on track like smoke, dust, weather, night and day and so on
 
GT6 is definitely pushing the limit of the PS3. It is truly amazing to see, even with the graphical glitches here and there.

As for GT7 on PS4, I think that most of the hardware pushing will have to do with the tracks and environments. The premium cars, if I remember correctly, are basically low res versions of what will be used in GT7 so they don't really need any attention. IMHO, GT7 will have more detailed environments and more cars on any given track. Physics and additional features will be improved/added, but not to the level on environments.
 
All you have to do is look at shadows in GT6 to see that something has been shortsheeted in order to do what has been done in the new engine. In some cases, they're worse than GT5's shadows. Much of that is due to the ram available, as shadows are basically textures, I was surprised to learn, and good shadows require a good amount of available ram.

Some things should be available to add in to GT6, like a Livery Editor. Make our liveries collapse to a texture skin, and they're no different than any skin in the game. Other things like a damage implementation on the scale of Codemasters or Turn 10 is a lot less likely, but who knows? Kaz has said that they're working on things for GT6 add ons he can't even discuss yet, so I wouldn't say no to any possibility right now.

But as some others have said, when Gran Turismo hits PS4, I expect to have a truly cinematic experience. Graphically, overall, some improvement. But in details, I expect huge advancements. Fantastic lighting. Realistic shadows. Worlds with all kinds of lifelike properties, such as crowds that behave like a mob of people rather than obvious clones acting repetitively. Flags and trees moving in the breeze, and a breeze that changes dynamically. Precipitation that puddles and pools, and evaporates unevenly. Dirt and snow that ruts realistically. Dirt and mud that accumulates on cars in a lifelike way. A good visual and mechanical damage build. A proper Livery Editor. A massive Course Maker. And who knows what else?

Good points, there are many tell tail signs that things have been dialed back like the shadows you mentioned, the headlights at night, etc. and other signs that things are being pushed like more "pop up" and the absence of 3D... I think the tessellation didn't yield as much returns as they had hoped.

Regarding GT6, I don't think it will be a drastic difference over 6 but more of an enabling features and effects that they appear to have had to disable in GT 6. Some you mention like flags waving, hard shadows, and some other like 3D, more anti aliasing, progressive dirty cars (they have been trying this for many versions, and some models in GT 6 get very dirty off road compared to others), more robust AI (as they are clearly taking a clinical approach to AI vs the artistic convincing approach other games do), animated water, god rays, more animated people and corner workers, more dynamic lights, etc. If you look at GT now, these "enhancements" would make the existing assets shine and be more fully realized.

I personally worry about getting my hopes up for GT 7 being a better "game", but it's quite obvious how GT 6 could look so much better with a bit more horsepower... And as such, everything in GT 6 is likely a precursor to GT 7 as that's the smart way to move into the next gen... And they wouldn't waste so much resource on updates throughout the year... and ironically most of those updates are already claimed to be free minus certain obvious content like cars and tracks... How does that support a business model? Easy if it's all in the name of continued development... Kaz has always thought that way too... one big evolving GT...
 
When I play GTA5 my ps3 I assume gets hot fast because the fan turns on and gets loud. With GT6 it doesn't do that, but the menus etc do not load very quick. I am always waiting for a menu or race to start.
 
They could add other features - the course creator is still coming and I can't believe a livery editor etc. would require more resources than that. Loading a racing stripe or two into memory has to be a fairly negligible task compared to all the other surface detail on the cars.

I do thing they've pushed the PS3 as far as it will go when it comes to graphics though. Just look at the framerate on some of the Super class races and that's obvious.
 
I agree there are some strange dev decisions which are known only to Kaz , but then when you write that they rather choose moon or sky over car liveries, you should know that those 2 things got nothing common. Like someone allready explained in some other older posts , those stars or moon missions didn't took resources (or time) away from livery editor . Custom liveries are probably not included or possible (despite what Kaz might said) in GT6/PS3 because there is NOT enough PS3 resources left (ram, power). You mentioned some other games have this feature (FM?,SHIFT) . Those games can have livery editor / custom liveries because : a) most of the lighting there is prebaked to save resources (hence no day/night transition even on FM5/XBOX1?) b) no rain effects c) if you wish because of moon and the stars :D
Consoles are closed enviroment and there is a point when you reach a peak (after 8 years) and you have to sacrifice things in order to implement some other things. Simple. PD choose one path , while some other games choose different path. Would I like custom liveries ? Yes I would ,but please spare me "hello kitty" , "anime" supercars online like in some other games. Would I sacrifice day/night/rain for that ? No. Wait for GT7.

GT already runs cars with liveries just fine. Theres absolutely no reason why custom liveries you create should be more taxing on the system than the ones they have made ( which are after-all liveries as well).
 
A lot of the things people are asking for have been implemented in other games. There are plenty of games on the ps3 with a good AI, a livery editor, ect ... so no ... I would say most of these have nothing to do with the limitations of the ps3 per-se.
Even Kaz said they are technically possible, and that he would love to make a "pro" version with what is essentially a livery editor. It just seems like these demands that are so popular among fans have not been on the priority list of PD. PD would rather have moon simulations and an accurate sky.
I agree,although I think PD are pooling their efforts and resources into developing GT7 for the PS4 instead of putting too much focus on GT6.
I think we will see little improvements,additional content and dlc for GT6 through the end of its lifecycle.
 
This. It doesn't matter if GT7 comes to PS4; the game will still likely be laced with bugs, broken AI, cars with inaccurate sounds, and a lack of the many other things fans have asked for throughout the series. PD had seven years to make a GT game work on PS3 and they chose instead to focus on other 'priorities' such as unnecessary features and marketing hype. GT6 has proven that PD is merely a shell of what it once was since the release of GT5: Prologue. They just don't seem to listen or care about their fans--or even the series itself--anymore.
lol
And how do you know this already?
What are you ,a fortune teller? lol
You do know that making assumptions shows little intellect right?
C'mon man,you can't expect them to just implement every little feature upon every fans request?

You can't be serious, PD does indeed listen and it is clear by what we saw in updates to GT5 after it was released as well as the most recent update to GT6. Just because they did not add the feature you want does not mean they are not listening.
Spot on there buddy.
They absolutely do and did listen to us gamers,evidenced in the previous update/patch.
 
I do not expect the graphics to be a huge leap, but graphics is not the only part of the game. Aside from some jagged edges on some textures and some frame rate drops the graphics look pretty good now. The thing is though with all that extra high speed ram and with a GPU that can process the graphics without having to offload them to the CPU there is the potential for huge improvement in all aspects of the game as well as many additional things.

Also note that you can't compare what one game is able to do at launch to what another will do in 1-2 years after launch. PD has a way of getting the most out of a system and there is a lot more there to work with.

Personally I think it is sad when people look at the graphics and use that as a measure for the games improvement. I have a few old games that by todays standards have horrible graphics yet are some of the best games ever made
I think a lot of gamers are basing their judgment on the games they see now(on PS4),as that's not a good measure of what's to come.
It is after all,a new architecture/system for the devs to work on.
 
It's pushing the ps3 to it's limit and then some, all the smoke, lighting and bitchin ass physics is pretty damn impressive. I don't care what some reviewer on Gamespot says about GT, for the simple fact they don't know racing games like i do. And i can guarantee pd have worked there ass off and made the best of what they have to work with, 256mb of memory 256mb of ram and an outdated Pentium d processor or equivalent to.

If anyone had any understanding of what i just said wouldn't be bitching.
 
It's pushing the ps3 to it's limit and then some, all the smoke, lighting and bitchin ass physics is pretty damn impressive. I don't care what some reviewer on Gamespot says about GT, for the simple fact they don't know racing games like i do. And i can guarantee pd have worked there ass off and made the best of what they have to work with, 256mb of memory 256mb of ram and an outdated Pentium d processor or equivalent to.

If anyone had any understanding of what i just said wouldn't be bitching.

Actually the PS3 uses a set of cell processors. I think there are 8 of them and they are pretty fast. The problem is that they are also hard to code for and the GPU is underpowered compared to the processors and a small amount of ram.

If it was actually a Pentium D then it would be easy to code for but slower in execution
 

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