Is it just me or are Racing Hard tires really worthless?

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Tommy_861
I'll make this short. I ran the 4 hours of the Nurburgring today in my Falken GTR. It has a pretty aggressive suspension setup on it but stock HP (525). I started with Racing Softs front and back. After 4 laps they has a TINY bit left up front but more than 3/4 left in the rear but I was able to keep the car under control and hit the pits. Here I tried to strategize in a form I did in GT4 and throw racing hards up front, figuring the performance hit is worth the longevity maybe I could squeeze another lap out of them.

Boy was that a mistake, not only do they perform worse (expected) but they were GONE 1/4 of the way through my 4th lap on them. The Racing SOFTS lasted LONGER than the Hards? Something seems very wrong here.

Any ideas?
 
Yes they are that worthless. For the record, my best laps in a McLaren F1, on Nurburgring Type V, on RH and SS are 8:11 and 8:18 respectively. So RH is only marginally faster than SS while wearing out just as fast.
 
Here is my theory. Because softs have more grip than other tires, there is less "screeching" and the more of said "screeching" there is, the faster the tires wear out. So if you have racing hards on and you try to push the car as hard or even almost as hard as when you have softs on, they end up getting worn out at a faster rate than softs.

I know its flawed, but I think PD wants you to drive a lot more conservatively with hards to get their full use.
 
Here is my theory. Because softs have more grip than other tires, there is less "screeching" and the more of said "screeching" there is, the faster the tires wear out. So if you have racing hards on and you try to push the car as hard or even almost as hard as when you have softs on, they end up getting worn out at a faster rate than softs.

I know its flawed, but I think PD wants you to drive a lot more conservatively with hards to get their full use.

With that logic might as well drive conservatively on Racing Soft, and get the better result.
 
I'd imagine maybe someone early into the game with a limited budget might settle for racing hards so he can get a racing-grade tire without dropping the 35,000 (or is it 36K?) for a single set of tires. I'm sure racing hards are still better than sport tires.
 
Here is my theory. Because softs have more grip than other tires, there is less "screeching" and the more of said "screeching" there is, the faster the tires wear out. So if you have racing hards on and you try to push the car as hard or even almost as hard as when you have softs on, they end up getting worn out at a faster rate than softs.

I know its flawed, but I think PD wants you to drive a lot more conservatively with hards to get their full use.

I was thinking the same thing, because I was beating the piss out of them trying to keep up the same line/speed. Still even when I backed off a bit, I didn't see them lasting long enough to be worth it for me to take the hit of slowing down as opposed to pitting every 4 laps for 4 new softs.

The strategy you could use in the past (RH was not this much worse than RS in GT4) is just plain gone.

I'd imagine maybe someone early into the game with a limited budget might settle for racing hards so he can get a racing-grade tire without dropping the 35,000 (or is it 36K?) for a single set of tires. I'm sure racing hards are still better than sport tires.

Thats a long shot especially because the price difference is something like 10k, but I guess possible.
 
The results you got from this test could be explained by something as simple as your suspension setup.

Try making some adjustments to reduce the wear you're getting in the front then run your test again. Your setup may just be really hard on the front tires.
 
I'll make this short. I ran the 4 hours of the Nurburgring today in my Falken GTR. It has a pretty aggressive suspension setup on it but stock HP (525). I started with Racing Softs front and back. After 4 laps they has a TINY bit left up front but more than 3/4 left in the rear but I was able to keep the car under control and hit the pits. Here I tried to strategize in a form I did in GT4 and throw racing hards up front, figuring the performance hit is worth the longevity maybe I could squeeze another lap out of them.

Boy was that a mistake, not only do they perform worse (expected) but they were GONE 1/4 of the way through my 4th lap on them. The Racing SOFTS lasted LONGER than the Hards? Something seems very wrong here.

Any ideas?

You shouldnt be wearing down your front tires at ALL especially if your Rears arent worn down.

That either means

A) Ride Height too low / Spring Rates, Dampers too soft. Tires hit body while braking hard and lock up.
B) Front Bias set too high
C) ABS is Off.
D) Too much FWD / and a poorly set up LSD in the front. Should be 5/5/5 if it is AWD (not sure if it is or not)

Because I NEVER have my front tires worn down hardly any, it not at all. In any of my cars. After MANY laps of ANY track, only my rears are done.

So I really dont know what you're doing that causes that to be so wrong for you.


EDIT: I saw someone experiencing this on their S2K GT1 the other day while mine wasnt doing it at all and like I said I get the exact opposite because that's how it should be and I have my suspension set up properly. His were worn to about 25% Front and 75% rear while mine were nearly 90% front when they were at 25 rear. I really couldnt understand how he was getting that because his rears lasted longer then mine but fronts not nearly the same, and I have so much trouble even keeping my rears because I burn the rubber off em so much.

I suggested raising his ride height and tightening the springs more then what he had (customized it himself) and suggested he set ARB to 5 or 6 F/R and what do ya know, front tires stopped wearing down so much and his tires started wearing down very even.
 
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In fact tires in GT5 are a kind of difficulty level. Soft is easy, hard is difficult. The softs are always "better".
 
Even if the hard ones worn off quicker, shouldn`t they last longer then soft ones?
In my opinion this is definitely not working properly.
 
The problem with RH is not only they wear out fast, but they also lose grip alarmingly fast. Maybe this warrants some testing, but it just seems to me that SS at 40% grips better than RH at 40%.
 
A good setup wears Fronts and Rears at or near the same rate. If not...it isn't a good setup.
 
there is no "hard tires have less grip but last longer". the more expensive the tires are, the better they are overall. there is no downside (besides the price) to the most expensive tires.
 
Like people have mentioned, you wear out tires from sliding them, not by gripping (as much anyway).

If your wearing out a certain tire more front or back you need to change it to a softer compount.
Say your wearing your back tires out it means that your car has an oversteer setup or there is too much power going through those tires, you would therefore need to balance the car by changing to a softer compound at the back and reducing the amount of tire wear.

If you ran the same compounds front and back, you would notice greater longevity with a harder compound, because the car balance is the same.

This applies in real life aswell..
 
You shouldnt be wearing down your front tires at ALL especially if your Rears arent worn down.

That either means

A) Ride Height too low / Spring Rates, Dampers too soft. Tires hit body while braking hard and lock up.
B) Front Bias set too high
C) ABS is Off.
D) Too much FWD / and a poorly set up LSD in the front. Should be 5/5/5 if it is AWD (not sure if it is or not)

Because I NEVER have my front tires worn down hardly any, it not at all. In any of my cars. After MANY laps of ANY track, only my rears are done.

So I really dont know what you're doing that causes that to be so wrong for you.


EDIT: I saw someone experiencing this on their S2K GT1 the other day while mine wasnt doing it at all and like I said I get the exact opposite because that's how it should be and I have my suspension set up properly. His were worn to about 25% Front and 75% rear while mine were nearly 90% front when they were at 25 rear. I really couldnt understand how he was getting that because his rears lasted longer then mine but fronts not nearly the same, and I have so much trouble even keeping my rears because I burn the rubber off em so much.

I suggested raising his ride height and tightening the springs more then what he had (customized it himself) and suggested he set ARB to 5 or 6 F/R and what do ya know, front tires stopped wearing down so much and his tires started wearing down very even.

A) Maybe
B) Probably I think its at 9/7 F/R
C) Nope always run ABS 1 because the brakes lock too easily with my pedal setup
D) Its AWD and the front is set at the lowest settings it allows

You may be right that the suspension setup is too aggressive, however if this is the case the RH tires should still outlast the RS tires. Also 4 laps on Type V Nurburgring is a LONG time, around 35 minutes in that car so its not like I'm cooking them in a few laps of a normal track.

Also I have seen the fronts go faster than the rears on many cars that had NO suspension setup done to them. My 10 Camaro SS for instance will always eat the fronts first and its dead stock, brakes are set to 4/3 on that car as well.

The Racing Hards aren't worthless, the Racing Softs are way overpowered.

The racing hards drive fine, but in the context of the game they ARE worthless as they should last longer than medium or soft but they don't. The Softs wouldn't be over powered if they were just as sticky but lasted half as long. There are race slicks just as sticky in real life. Its not a feature its a bug.
 
Like people have mentioned, you wear out tires from sliding them, not by gripping (as much anyway).

If your wearing out a certain tire more front or back you need to change it to a softer compount.
Say your wearing your back tires out it means that your car has an oversteer setup or there is too much power going through those tires, you would therefore need to balance the car by changing to a softer compound at the back and reducing the amount of tire wear.

If you ran the same compounds front and back, you would notice greater longevity with a harder compound, because the car balance is the same.

This applies in real life aswell..

Yes that makes sense, however knowing that I had a decent lead and worse tires up front I backed off significantly. It didn't matter they still cooked, although I did notice them sliding more, probably because I still had softs on the rear so I had a lot of grip back there. I should have tried RH/RH to see how that would have lasted.
 
Sorry if I missed it, but I didn't see anyone mentioning a center-lock differential yet. Isn't the GT-R all-wheel drive? Put about 60% torque on the rear wheels, 40% up front, and that will equalize wheelspin somewhat.

Also, the more grip you have at the back of the car, the more prone to understeer you're going to be. AWD cars are already prone to understeer, so if you've tuned that out already, your setup will be doubly prone to scrub off rubber at the front, especially if you have less grip up there.
 
My experience has been that the softs definitely have the most grip so I tend to always use them in single races and championships, etc. unless they're overkill for the opposition.

Very early on during endurance races I found that the hards and softs wear at the same rate for me and therefore I only run softs here as well. If I remember rightly, hards in GT3 tended to run for longer during enduros, but there is much less difference in longevity in GT5.

Which then brings up the question, why mediums? I don't think I've ever used them.
 
The Racing softs have Bridgestone syndrome, they simply last too long, they're too good.
 
Well... If you drive conservatively with the racing softs, you'll end up with roughly the same lap times as you would when pushing your car with racing hards. Pushing it hard, that is.
In that case, the racing softs will last just as long or even longer.

If you're driving both conservatively, the racing hards will last a little longer, however, you'll be getting better lap times with the softs, negating any advantage in longevity you can get out of the racing hards.

If you're pushing both, the racing hards will barely last any longer at all, while resulting in way inferior lap times, again negating any advantage you might get out of the racing hards.

That's what I have found, at least.
I think that 95% of the time, racing softs are the best choice, period.
 
This is basically the suspension setup I used. Got it on the tuning forum here as I decided at the last minute I was gonna spend the day yesterday doing the race and didn't feel like figuring out something for myself. I looked at a few setups posted here and this one made the most sense to me (although the ride height being so low seemed crazy but it worked great).

Aero F-35 R-60

Trans- 180 m.p.h.

LSD- Initial Torque- F-3 R-25
Acceleration Sensitivity- F-18 R-40
Braking Sensitivity- F-8 R-30

F/R Torque Split F-30 R-70

Suspension- Ride Height- F-(-27) R-(-25)
Spring Rate- F-12.0 R-13.2
Dampers (Ext.)- F-7 R-8
Dampers (Comp.)- F-6 R-7
Anti-Roll Bars- F-5 R-5
Camber- F-2.0 R-3.2
Toe-Angle- F-.00 R-.20

Brakes- F-9 R-7

Tires- F-RS R-RS

The LSD for the front is non adjustable so those numbers are what its locked at.

With this setup my best lap was 8:25, but most of my laps were more in the 8:40 range as I obviously dialed back my driving a bit. I was able to keep up 8:40-8:49 with RH/RS tire combo driving at about 85-90%.

I think I'm gonna try a couple laps tonight with the same setup but RH/RH and see how I lap and how the tires wear just for comparison.
 
The racing hards should have at least have double the life expectancy than racing softs, but oddly they don't.

But for enduros, I either go soft or mediums depending on my mood and power of the car, and only hammer it down for the first couple of laps until I built up a lead and then coast on until victory.

DS3s also wear out tires a lot faster than wheel and pedal setups, but having the accelerator and brake set to R2 and L2 respectively can help the wear, but it can cramp fingers if you're not used to it.
 
This is basically the suspension setup I used. Got it on the tuning forum here as I decided at the last minute I was gonna spend the day yesterday doing the race and didn't feel like figuring out something for myself. I looked at a few setups posted here and this one made the most sense to me (although the ride height being so low seemed crazy but it worked great).

Aero F-35 R-60

Trans- 180 m.p.h.

LSD- Initial Torque- F-3 R-25
Acceleration Sensitivity- F-18 R-40
Braking Sensitivity- F-8 R-30

F/R Torque Split F-30 R-70

Suspension- Ride Height- F-(-27) R-(-25)
Spring Rate- F-12.0 R-13.2
Dampers (Ext.)- F-7 R-8
Dampers (Comp.)- F-6 R-7
Anti-Roll Bars- F-5 R-5
Camber- F-2.0 R-3.2
Toe-Angle- F-.00 R-.20

Brakes- F-9 R-7

Tires- F-RS R-RS

The LSD for the front is non adjustable so those numbers are what its locked at.

With this setup my best lap was 8:25, but most of my laps were more in the 8:40 range as I obviously dialed back my driving a bit. I was able to keep up 8:40-8:49 with RH/RS tire combo driving at about 85-90%.

I think I'm gonna try a couple laps tonight with the same setup but RH/RH and see how I lap and how the tires wear just for comparison.

I'd drop the torque sent to the front to around 15-20. Maybe that can help out the fronts last longer.
 
I Very rarely run racing hards i tend to run soft or wet if the track is well ... wet

Rain can make the softs last really long. I can pull off 13 laps on La Sarthe on softs, with some left over for a possible 2 more laps, but my fuel cut out right before pit entrance. This is with the Bentley by the way, fully tuned with power restrictor at around 90% (I found that adding a stage 3 turbo and restricting it to the original power level still granted me a bit better acceleration and top speed while maintaining the fuel efficiency of the stock form).

This tire thing needs to be addressed by PD, or at least bump up the longevity of hards and mediums by quite a bit.
 
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