Is it just me or are Racing Hard tires really worthless?

[phil bell]

Try using less steering angle when driving,dialling down the camber and stiffening the front springs.that way the cars weight isnt loaded onto the front tyres too often..and the gtr's weight distribution certainly dosent help..

 

[calan_svc]

You shouldnt be wearing down your front tires at ALL especially if your Rears arent worn down.

Not necessarily...it depends on the car, the track, and the driving style. People who have a tighter setup or tend to push harder on corner entry will have more wear on the fronts.

In oval racing, the front-right tire will almost always wear faster due to the repeated weight transfer to that corner.

 

[ElSecundo]

This tire thing needs to be addressed by PD, or at least bump up the longevity of hards and mediums by quite a bit.

I agree. Or maybe make the racing softs like GT4's soft tires, which lasted about 2-3 good laps, like a qualifying tire.

 

[phil bell]

Not necessarily...it depends on the car, the track, and the driving style. People who have a tighter setup or tend to push harder on corner entry will have more wear on the fronts.

In oval racing, the front-right tire will almost always wear faster due to the repeated weight transfer to that corner.

👍

 

[Luminis]

Not necessarily...it depends on the car, the track, and the driving style. People who have a tighter setup or tend to push harder on corner entry will have more wear on the fronts.

In oval racing, the front-right tire will almost always wear faster due to the repeated weight transfer to that corner.

+1

Most importantly, at times, a setup that will wear the front faster than the rear might be substantially faster on a given track than a setup that's focussing on preserving the tyres.
It's always a trade off between pace and the longevity of the tyres.

 

[Tommy_861]

Not necessarily...it depends on the car, the track, and the driving style. People who have a tighter setup or tend to push harder on corner entry will have more wear on the fronts.

In oval racing, the front-right tire will almost always wear faster due to the repeated weight transfer to that corner.

That was my feeling as well. I tend to wear my fronts worse on all my cars tuned suspension or not. I use a DFP wheel and I would say I'm aggressive on the corner entry in many cars.

I have an 09 GTR Spec V that I run at the ring all the time, the suspension is nowhere near as aggressive as the one I posted here for my Falken, and I manage to cook the fronts just as fast.

+1

Most importantly, at times, a setup that will wear the front faster than the rear might be substantially faster on a given track than a setup that's focussing on preserving the tyres.
It's always a trade off between pace and the longevity of the tyres.

A lot of people have mentioned using the Falken GTR to make the Nurburgring 4 hours a competitive race, where the car runs in the 8:50 range. Mine is bone stock and all I did was that suspension setup. I ran an 8:25 and had no problem dialing it down and running in the 8:40s. It won me the race so I wouldn't say the setup is that bad. (That said I would have rather have been slower to have some more action LOL)

 

[Luminis]

A lot of people have mentioned using the Falken GTR to make the Nurburgring 4 hours a competitive race, where the car runs in the 8:50 range. Mine is bone stock and all I did was that suspension setup. I ran an 8:25 and had no problem dialing it down and running in the 8:40s. It won me the race so I wouldn't say the setup is that bad. (That said I would have rather have been slower to have some more action LOL)

I didn't mean to say that the setup was bad or anything, quite on the contrary.
An unbalanced tyre wear isn't necessarily an indicator of a bad suspension setup, in my opinion

 

[Exorcet]

I actually like the fact that all the tires last the same. It means you can use them to tweak the performance of cars in an online race.

Super GT on Racing Hard feels different from its Racing Soft counterpart. While we may lose some pit strategy in long races, I don't think 3 classes of tires is enough to allow for varied strategies. We would need at least 5-7 classes of tire that are much more finely spaced in terms of grip and longevity.

If we were to get that (and I would certainly like to), I'd also like some more tire rules online to prevent situations like in GT5P where you had Racing Hard cars vs Racing Soft cars. More detailed tire classes like:

R1 - Max life
H - Current Racing Hard + 5 times tire life
M
S

R2
H
M - Current Racing Medium + 3 times tire life
S

R3 - Max grip
H
M
S - Current Racing Soft + .75 times tire life (?)

With the ability to allow only R1 or R2 or R3 tires in a race, all allow all tires, etc. I'm unsure about cutting tire life for the R3S simply because tires in real life last a lot longer than they do in GT.

 

[TK42OnE]

Yes, racing hards are worthless, at least compared to racing softs.

Like alot of people, I seem to remember from old Gt games, that racing softs, while giving you better grip, and warming up faster, wore out fast.

While racing hards took longer to warm up, gave less grip, but lasted longer.

Therefore, it took a little forethought in long races. "What am I going for? Better lap times overall, or fewer pit stops?"

That is no longer the case. Racing Softs last just as long as Racing Hards and they give better performance.

 

[Exorcet]

Therefore, it took a little forethought in long races. "What am I going for? Better lap times overall, or fewer pit stops?"

Maybe if there was online, but with the AI as it was, all you needed to do with endurances was not pick soft tires and you would win.

The reason why tires don't work in GT is because the whole reason for changing the compound doesn't exist: Track conditions. If the road got warmer/cooler during a race, then we could really talk tire strategy.

 

[SS_1182]

IMO, your ride height is too low. I would only go as low as -25 on either front or back if the car can go as low as -50. Too low of a ride height setting will always make your tires squall more in corners, could be the culprit.

 

[Big Ron]

The Racing Hards aren't worthless, the Racing Softs are way overpowered.

Second that. In my opinion the race soft tyres are like having industrial glue on your feet to walk up a wall...nowhere near realistic.

 

[Tommy_861]

IMO, your ride height is too low. I would only go as low as -25 on either front or back if the car can go as low as -50. Too low of a ride height setting will always make your tires squall more in corners, could be the culprit.

The only issue with that is on my 09 GTR Spec V on the Nurburgring I can basically kill the fronts in the same way and my ride height is nowhere near as low. In fact the whole suspension setup is nowhere near as aggressive.

 

[MarsSpork]

those are just 9 price steps. just like there are 2-3 price steps for all other tuning parts.

^^^^ What he said.

After reading this Tire Testing tread, I'm left with the opinion that the names are simply names and mean nothing in real life terms. If they had named the tires Grade 1 through Grade 9, that description would probably be more accurate than hard, medium & soft. Quote from the thread:

"My testing so far has revealed that the 9 tire types (CH, CM, CS, SH, SM, SS, RH, RM, RS) in GT5 form what appears to be a simple grip multiplier, with each tire type adding approximately .06g of lateral grip."

As for your front tire wear, lately I've been playing around with reducing the F/R brake strength to 3F/1B (or 2/1 or 4/2) and have improved my front tire wear and braking accuracy. I also wonder if your nose is too heavy and adjusting the ride height to equal the back would help reduce wear. For high speed I've even had better results with the ride height higher in the front by approx 10.

But what do I know... I've read a lot here, but I'm petty new to all this.

 

[Samus]

But in previous games Hard/Soft really meant harder or softer compounds. If you used the hard tyres you would be slower, but go much longer. In GT5 they all last the exact same length, but have differing levels of grip.

Another point where GT5 has gone backwards.

 

[Tommy_861]

But in previous games Hard/Soft really meant harder or softer compounds. If you used the hard tyres you would be slower, but go much longer. In GT5 they all last the exact same length, but have differing levels of grip.

Another point where GT5 has gone backwards.

This is what I was saying in my original post but everyone has been replying its my suspension setup.

Of course I would believe that if it were real life, OR If I were just beating the hell out of the tires but I was not. On stock cars for me the fronts go off before the backs, and the hards just do not last. There have been other threads that covered this as well, the best someone has gotten out of hards is maybe a lap or so more.

I'm sure on a very conservative suspension setting maybe they can last longer, but depending on the race that could be the difference between winning and losing. Because they don't last long enough vs the softs to be worth the loss in lap time.

 

[Samus]

Indeed it doesn't matter what setup you're using, what car you're driving, the three compounds will all last the same length, give or take. I can't believe they still haven't fixed it.

I remember in older GT games you'd do an endurance race, softs might last you 6-8 laps, mediums 12-14 and hards 20 laps.

 

[Destinkeys]

I remember in older GT games you'd do an endurance race, softs might last you 6-8 laps, mediums 12-14 and hards 20 laps.

And you can imagine the PD board meeting going like this...

'OK, tires seemed about right in GT4. We HAVE to change that...'

'I'll get right on it'

 

[Samus]

And you can imagine the PD board meeting going like this...

'OK, tires seemed about right in GT4. We HAVE to change that...'

'I'll get right on it'

I'm sure they held all of their important decision making meetings during the office partys when everyone was drunk. It's the only explanation for a lot of things.

 

[MarsSpork]

This is what I was saying in my original post but everyone has been replying its my suspension setup.

Sorry, Tommy, I misunderstood your OP and I went off in the wrong direction. I didn't know about hard/medium/soft in earlier versions.

I wish I had a Falken GT-R to compare times using my typical 4WD set-up. It's perfect for F/B wear, but now you have me extremely curious if it's also a much slower setup.

 

[Madman Apex]

tyres in GT5 are a big ol mess of poop. You are not the first person to say that RH last less than Race-Softs. It happened to me during the INdy 500:

RS 25laps fastest laps
RM 26laps 3seconds slower per lap
RH 23laps 7seconds slower than RS per lap.

People have told me to drive less aggresive on Hards to make them last longer. Well using each set of tyres i drove just as hard on all the tyres. Full throttle all the way around, no braking for the turns; my set-up allowed about 16laps full throttle on the RS and barely 5-7laps on the RH. At which point i was already 7seconds slower a lap, then im suppost to drive gentler and go even slower to make them last longer!!? on a lap that was about 40-45 seconds, 7 seconds slower is about 16.5% slower! That math doesnt add up to me. that strategy and pace doesnt make sense.
That would be like going from an 8minute lap at the Ring on RS to a 9m32s lap at the ring on RH. LOOSING STRATEGY in my books.

This is what I was saying in my original post but everyone has been replying its my suspension setup.

It's not your suspension set up. During the 4hrs of Tsukuba, my bone stock 91 Miata killed the front tyres, SportSofts, in about 85minutes but the rears MAYBE had 15%wear. It also did the whole race with just one take of gas, plus 5liters to ensure i wouldnt run out. TCS was off and i played around with the brake bias. at one point i had it 2-front 5-rear to try to get some wear out of the rears and nothing.

I'm gonna try out your set-up and see how my driving style, which is probably different than yours, is on the tyres.

 

[Poppins]

A) Maybe
B) Probably I think its at 9/7 F/R
C) Nope always run ABS 1 because the brakes lock too easily with my pedal setup
D) Its AWD and the front is set at the lowest settings it allows

You may be right that the suspension setup is too aggressive, however if this is the case the RH tires should still outlast the RS tires. Also 4 laps on Type V Nurburgring is a LONG time, around 35 minutes in that car so its not like I'm cooking them in a few laps of a normal track.

Also I have seen the fronts go faster than the rears on many cars that had NO suspension setup done to them. My 10 Camaro SS for instance will always eat the fronts first and its dead stock, brakes are set to 4/3 on that car as well.



The racing hards drive fine, but in the context of the game they ARE worthless as they should last longer than medium or soft but they don't. The Softs wouldn't be over powered if they were just as sticky but lasted half as long. There are race slicks just as sticky in real life. Its not a feature its a bug.

Yeah it must be because you are locking up your fronts a bit or they are probably hitting the body if the suspension is too soft. Had this problem for a while with my TVR until someone pointed out its because even though my front springs are at max (20 on that car) that because it has so much weight on the front normally (around 68% and 32% on rear) that you cant have the front ride height too low even if its set at maximum spring rate because they tend to scrape and cause the tires to lock up.

As for your Camaro if you tighten the suspension it probably wont do it either.

 

[Destinkeys]

tyres in GT5 are a big ol mess of poop. You are not the first person to say that RH last less than Race-Softs. It happened to me during the INdy 500:

RS 25laps fastest laps
RM 26laps 3seconds slower per lap
RH 23laps 7seconds slower than RS per lap.

People have told me to drive less aggresive on Hards to make them last longer. Well using each set of tyres i drove just as hard on all the tyres. Full throttle all the way around, no braking for the turns; my set-up allowed about 16laps full throttle on the RS and barely 5-7laps on the RH. At which point i was already 7seconds slower a lap, then im suppost to drive gentler and go even slower to make them last longer!!? on a lap that was about 40-45 seconds, 7 seconds slower is about 16.5% slower! That math doesnt add up to me. that strategy and pace doesnt make sense.
That would be like going from an 8minute lap at the Ring on RS to a 9m32s lap at the ring on RH. LOOSING STRATEGY in my books.

This... 👍

Same setup, same style, same track.

 

[Blangadanger]

I agree that this should be fixed ASAP. I refused to use Racing Softs while doing offline races, because it wasn't necessary for the cost, and it strikes me as unrealistic while I'm driving with them. It's not as unrealistic as SRF, but I can take a car that has some bad oversteer on racing hards and hardly notice it at all on racing softs. The difference is astonishingly big. Unfortunately, because there is no other disadvantage to using racing softs, almost everyone online uses them; so much to my chagrin, I have to resort to using them to stand any kind of chance against other drivers.

 

[Tolaez]

If I were having the problem you describe with the suspension setup you listed I would start by increasing the front camber to match that of the rear to start. I'd test that to see if that reduces the traction loss in the front any. But that's just me.

 

[chuyler1]

Has anyone found whether Performance Points play a role in tire selection with online racing? For example, if you run RH tires, it should free up some points for HP...that is assuming you can block drivers running RS until you reach the straights. On fast tracks (la Sarthe, Madrid) I imagine the straight line speed would be worth it.

 

[Jason_B]

I prefer to race on the hard tires. They react more true to a real racing tire. But in the same respect the soft is a bit over kill but very true to nature. You can get a couple of very quick laps in early but they wear off quicker even though they can run the same distance.

 

[RODDUZ]

You shouldnt be wearing down your front tires at ALL especially if your Rears arent worn down.

That either means

A) Ride Height too low / Spring Rates, Dampers too soft. Tires hit body while braking hard and lock up.
B) Front Bias set too high
C) ABS is Off.
D) Too much FWD / and a poorly set up LSD in the front. Should be 5/5/5 if it is AWD (not sure if it is or not)

Because I NEVER have my front tires worn down hardly any, it not at all. In any of my cars. After MANY laps of ANY track, only my rears are done.

So I really dont know what you're doing that causes that to be so wrong for you.


EDIT: I saw someone experiencing this on their S2K GT1 the other day while mine wasnt doing it at all and like I said I get the exact opposite because that's how it should be and I have my suspension set up properly. His were worn to about 25% Front and 75% rear while mine were nearly 90% front when they were at 25 rear. I really couldnt understand how he was getting that because his rears lasted longer then mine but fronts not nearly the same, and I have so much trouble even keeping my rears because I burn the rubber off em so much.

I suggested raising his ride height and tightening the springs more then what he had (customized it himself) and suggested he set ARB to 5 or 6 F/R and what do ya know, front tires stopped wearing down so much and his tires started wearing down very even.

Are there seriously people out there naive enough or stupid enough to make a point like number 1 here? Yes the point could be true, but do you genuinely think that PD implemented in to this game taht the tyres could rub against the body work? As If!!!! look at the other stuff they DID NOT implement in to the game, tyres wearing from rubbing against the body work DEFDO never entered their heads! Haha. Some people give this game way too much SIM credit!

 

[Samus]

As that other thread showed, the whole tyre simulation is 'basic' to put it nicely.

 

[CoolColJ]

Racing softs are just too grippy, reduce their grip and the problem is solved.
Also double their wear.....