Is Performance Points Important ?

[PureOwnage]

What does it do ? Is it more important than HorsePower ?

 

[Jbnissan2367]

I'm no expert but I think PP takes into account the weight to power ratio, also drivetrain, balance and aerodynamics

 

[PureOwnage]

Ohh ok so more the pp is higher, the more the car is powerful?

 

[Jbnissan2367]

Not necessarily more powerful, but a faster, better handling, lighter weight car... It's like rating each car on a 1-10 scale, the x2010 would be a 10, while a slow old dumpy car would be a 1... The numbers climb when u upgrade the cars

 

[PureOwnage]

Ohhh i seee bro thxx !!

 

[turpz]

The PP is all the add ons and parts you can put on your car. Your basic car is stock. You can have a car with high horsepower from the dealership but a lower powered car with higher PP can go faster if all parts are upgraded and its tuned. You also need to be aware of the PP limit if you race online. Its a way of making an even playing field when racing. having high HP helps but does not mean your car can go faster

 

[Johnnypenso]

The PP is all the add ons and parts you can put on your car. Your basic car is stock. You can have a car with high horsepower from the dealership but a lower powered car with higher PP can go faster if all parts are upgraded and its tuned. You also need to be aware of the PP limit if you race online. Its a way of making an even playing field when racing. having high HP helps but does not mean your car can go faster

Close but not quite. The base PP for every car is an overall estimation by PD on how good the cars overall performance is based on it's inherent power, torque, and handling for the most part. A handful of cars outperform their PP slightly, a handful are overrated, but for the most part they are pretty close. Theoretically if you took two cars of equal PP with equal tires and other non-PP upgrades, over a series of different types of tracks, they should produce relatively close lap times and for the most part they do.

PP goes up when you increase power, reduce weight or add aero to the car. Other things that do not directly affect the weight of the vehicle, power of the engine and aero are not included in PP such as custom transmission and suspension, drivertrain upgrades, chassis stiffening, tires and some cosmetic aero components. These things do affect the cars performance and can do so dramatically, especially the tires, but they are not calculated in the PP ranking of a given car.

In other words, to be competitive at a given PP in an open tuning situation, it's assumed you've performed and tuned all non-PP related upgrades. Without them, it's tought to compete with a good tuner/driver.

 

[byegad]

Good answer Johnnypenso!

It confirms what I'd worked out for myself as a relative newbie.

It seems a shame that the other items do not contribute to pp. Fitting the full monty Drive train, Gearbox and Suspension really can deduct seconds on most tracks.

Even a nominal few points for each item would affect the likely results if a tuner uses them correctly. The challenge to tune with stock, sports or sports adjustable suspension in order to save a handful of points you could put into aero, weight reduction or engine power would be interesting. The same could apply to gearbox choice and Drive train items. It would only be a few lines of code to add a few points for each upgrade to make it work.

 

[RacerPaul]

Imo the PP system is terrible. I was a victim of it in a race series I did recently

 

[Herman79]

Also depending on the track, you sometimes need to sacrifice aero or adding weight for more horsepower or viceversa for staying at the pp limit, if there is one.

Two identical cars, with the same pp, depending on Aero/Power/Weight settings one of them can be faster around a track.

 

[byegad]

Also depending on the track, you sometimes need to sacrifice aero or adding weight for more horsepower or viceversa for staying at the pp limit, if there is one.

Two identical cars, with the same pp, depending on Aero/Power/Weight settings one of them can be faster around a track.

Yes and that's all 'accounted for' by the pp system. 👍

My point is I can usually, almost always with patience, spend big money on Drivetrain, Suspension and Transmission and improve the time of a car with identical pp to one with the stock issue items. 👎

We may as well be saying identical BHP, and ignoring weight and/or aero improvements.

Don't get me wrong, I quite like the pp system as is, but it could be better.

 

[Jmac279]

The PP system doesn't seem accurate at all. A 450 PP NSX will mop the floor with many 500 PP cars.

 

[Herman79]

My point is I can usually, almost always with patience, spend big money on Drivetrain, Suspension and Transmission and improve the time of a car with identical pp to one with the stock issue items. 👎

We may as well be saying identical BHP, and ignoring weight and/or aero improvements.

Don't get me wrong, I quite like the pp system as is, bit it could be better.

Totally agree with you 👍👍

 

[iamjajo]

You can increase the PP of a car By adding weight and shifting it back.

PP used to include tire selection. But it was not popular with the players so it was changed.

The PP system is better than just HP and weight restrictions

 

[watermelon punch]

PP is just another way to restrict races, as an alternative to hp/weight.

It is a flawed idea to use a PP to try and find an easy way to judge a car's performance or abilities comparatively in the scope of all the cars available in gt5.

There are also "tricks" to choosing cars and tuning to a particular PP #. And if you don't know the inside scoop, you will be SOOL when the race starts.

 

[seanneedscar]

There are also "tricks" to choosing cars and tuning to a particular PP #. And if you don't know the inside scoop, you will be SOOL when the race starts.

This is a GROSS exaggeration...

There are SOME cars that seem to be God's chariot for their PP.. the Chap 2j for example

But outside of those few cars, the best driver is going to win 99% of the time. So spend more time practicing and less time worrying which car is best

 

[watermelon punch]

This is a GROSS exaggeration...

There are SOME cars that seem to be God's chariot for their PP.. the Chap 2j for example

But outside of those few cars, the best driver is going to win 99% of the time. So spend more time practicing and less time worrying which car is best

Pick a PP & race the Corsa Comfort against the Ford Focus. Then talk to me about exaggeration & the best driver winning

PP doesn't tell you anything about the class of a vehicle, or whether it's a total barge, or spin happy skitterer, or a grossly understeering POS.
And if people are expecting PP to tell them what car to pick for an open garage open tuning race... & they're not going to spend some time on the tuning set up... they're not going to be competitive no matter how much time they spend practicing.

The fact is, that yes, at any given PP restriction with open garage, there are just a handful of cars even the best drivers will pick if they're serious about winning.

 

[dxm8975]

The Performance Point is only basically an indicator of how fast the car is - but can be the criterion for participation in the competitions. So it's somewhat important.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The PP system doesn't seem accurate at all. A 450 PP NSX will mop the floor with many 500 PP cars.

Not a chance unless a blind monkey is driving the 500 pp car.

PP is just another way to restrict races, as an alternative to hp/weight.

It is a flawed idea to use a PP to try and find an easy way to judge a car's performance or abilities comparatively in the scope of all the cars available in gt5.

There are also "tricks" to choosing cars and tuning to a particular PP #. And if you don't know the inside scoop, you will be SOOL when the race starts.

This is a GROSS exaggeration...
There are SOME cars that seem to be God's chariot for their PP.. the Chap 2j for example

But outside of those few cars, the best driver is going to win 99% of the time. So spend more time practicing and less time worrying which car is best

If you are referring to the tricks as being a gross exaggeration, Punch is correct. There are "tricks" for lack of a better word, and if you know them you have a distinct advantage under the PP system. Having said that, once you know the tricks and apply them to every car, there are actually dozens of cars that are competitive at most PP levels with the system. The NSX for example seems to stand out at 500-550 pp but I believe that's mainly because it's a relatively easy car to drive fast out of the box with little tuning and skill, whereas many other cars that are just as fast require a high degree of driving skill and tuning ability.

 

[Jmac279]

Not a chance unless a blind monkey is driving the 500 pp car.

So an Aston Martin Vanquish, a Mercedes-Benz E 55 AMG, or a Dodge Challenger R/T (All ~500 PP cars stock) stand a chance against a 450 PP NSX on most tracks ?

 

[watermelon punch]

So an Aston Martin Vanquish, a Mercedes-Benz E 55 AMG, or a Dodge Challenger R/T (All ~500 PP cars stock) stand a chance against a 450 PP NSX on most tracks ?

That's another case of apples & oranges.

That's exactly where JohnnyPenso & Seanneedsacar are both missing the point here.

Which is what people mean when they say not all cars at the same pp are competitive with each other or the same.

Pointing this out to NEWBIES or people who haven't been tuning for PP restrictions for the past 10 months & learning all the tricks. And people who don't know that PP has nothing to say about car class, as well as other things.

This topic was obviously started by someone who's looking at this from a scratch perspective saying "Is it important...?" and probably wondering how & why & what it means.
I mean to even compare it to HP shows that the OP is just looking at this from a game perspective.
(Remember a lot of people who get this game KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CARS in real life, or to think about those things.)

We're talking about when people new to the game say, "hey what does this PP mean... this kei car and this sports car have the same pp... or this 4wd & this luxury saloon car have the same pp..."

No, not all cars are created equal.

And taking a kei car into a race with 4wd subarus is like taking a knife to a gun fight.
And no, that's not an exaggeration. It would be a gross exaggeration to suggest "a skilled driver" in a Minica Dangan can beat someone in an Imprezza at the same PP.
I'd like to see Seanneedsacar get into a Minica Dangan & practice himself sick & see if he can beat sports cars at the same PP. And then tell someone else all they need is practice, they don't need to worry about what car they're picking.

 

[fusionedd]

I don't normally check on PP while choosing a car, but I noticed quite a difference in similar PPs.

The Nissan GT-R R35 TC and Pagani Zonda R. They have similar PP, but the Pagani is much faster, but less agile. The GT-R TC handles very well, but pals in comparison to the Pagani in acceleration and top speed.

 

[seanneedscar]

That's another case of apples & oranges.

That's exactly where JohnnyPenso & Seanneedsacar are both missing the point here.

Which is what people mean when they say not all cars at the same pp are competitive with each other or the same.

Pointing this out to NEWBIES or people who haven't been tuning for PP restrictions for the past 10 months & learning all the tricks. And people who don't know that PP has nothing to say about car class, as well as other things.

This topic was obviously started by someone who's looking at this from a scratch perspective saying "Is it important...?" and probably wondering how & why & what it means.
I mean to even compare it to HP shows that the OP is just looking at this from a game perspective.
(Remember a lot of people who get this game KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CARS in real life, or to think about those things.)

We're talking about when people new to the game say, "hey what does this PP mean... this kei car and this sports car have the same pp... or this 4wd & this luxury saloon car have the same pp..."

No, not all cars are created equal.

And taking a kei car into a race with 4wd subarus is like taking a knife to a gun fight.
And no, that's not an exaggeration. It would be a gross exaggeration to suggest "a skilled driver" in a Minica Dangan can beat someone in an Imprezza at the same PP.
I'd like to see Seanneedsacar get into a Minica Dangan & practice himself sick & see if he can beat sports cars at the same PP. And then tell someone else all they need is practice, they don't need to worry about what car they're picking.

I swear you guys are dense as rocks.

What I said was, "99% of the time, the better driver will win"

So take these cars that are 'better' and apply these 'tricks' to them, and give them to the worse driver, then give a worse car to the better driver, the better driver is still going to win. That was my point all along.. If you suck at the game, there is no car or trick that will make you win

And if you guys are getting beat by 5+ seconds a lap, trust me, its not the car thats beating you.

 

[watermelon punch]

I swear you guys are dense as rocks.

You're still missing the point.

*sigh*

You quote what I said, but don't even reply to it.

 

[ENTERSANDMAN13]

Pick a PP & race the Corsa Comfort against the Ford Focus. Then talk to me about exaggeration & the best driver winning

PP doesn't tell you anything about the class of a vehicle, or whether it's a total barge, or spin happy skitterer, or a grossly understeering POS.
And if people are expecting PP to tell them what car to pick for an open garage open tuning race... & they're not going to spend some time on the tuning set up... they're not going to be competitive no matter how much time they spend practicing.

The fact is, that yes, at any given PP restriction with open garage, there are just a handful of cars even the best drivers will pick if they're serious about winning.

Yep.

 

[rams1de]

Is there a better method than PP? Power/weight can also give the problem of a dominant car.

 

[watermelon punch]

Is there a better method than PP? Power/weight can also give the problem of a dominant car.

It's not that PP is a bad method. Or that any other combination of regulation restrictions is going to be some solution.

It's just that there is no simple way in GT5, to restrict a race & allow totally open garage open tuning, and then make for a bunch of models to be very equal, & somehow restrict out ringers & duds.

Just not the way it works.
(Though that does seem to be what people hoped from the PP system.)

If you really want to compare 2 cars, you're going to have to look at their various attributes, together... Car class, drivetrain, engine displacement, torque, horsepower, power/weight ratio.
And then try driving them.

And if you really want to race with no ringer cars, you have to go organized, where the models are restricted by participants agreement, not just by what regulations you can set in the lounge/lobby.

 

[Smuttysy]

I really don't like the PP system, it seems to be flawed in many ways. Example: Gran Turismo Racing Kart SPL is 499pp. Sure, you're not meant to race it against regular cars, but the comparisons between the two make the whole system seem wrong, in my opinion.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So an Aston Martin Vanquish, a Mercedes-Benz E 55 AMG, or a Dodge Challenger R/T (All ~500 PP cars stock) stand a chance against a 450 PP NSX on most tracks ?

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't race or drive many cars untuned so I can't say what they are like untuned but I will beat you or anyone 100/100 in a Challenger at 500PP compared to any car at 450PP including the NSX. The Challenger may not be as fast as the NSX if they are both 500PP but even then, if it's fully tuned I would still give you a go on many tracks. The NSX would have the advantage on the tighter, twistier circuits.

There are extreme example of cars that don't work so well under the PP system and most of them are the real lightweight cars. With 1000+ cars in the game not every car is going to fit that well. But when you compare cars that in real life are very good handling cars against cars that are naturally at a similar PP level, and then tune them to suit their inherent driving characteristics, there are literally dozens of competitive cars at every given PP level. Not exactly the same, but within a second or two on all but the biggest tracks.

 

[watermelon punch]

@ Johnnypenso: Tune & send me a Vanquish that's competitive at 500pp please?

(He could probably do it too.)