Is SRF really that unrealistic?

[et_]

It`s a little funny how all You people still discuss this thing, as if GT6 was a true driving simulator...Somebody (more than one of You) have said, "that IRL there is not such a force that saves a car and give it back the grip, when it starts to skid" Thats true but...IRL a car does not skid anywhere near as much as a "car" (an electronic interpretation of a car) does im Gran Turismo....

If You take a walk around the town where You live, You do not hear any tyre whining/screeching/skidding at all...Why? - Because driving a car IRL is waaay easier than in GT...OK people don`t race at max around Your home town, they drive nice and slow...BUT the tyres they drive on, are not racing tyres. It`s every day tyres...And even in rain, You don`t see cars skidding/crashing around do You???

Your grandma can drive her car around in heavy rain, stuffing her mouth with licorice, AND speak in her cellphone at the same time, without the slightest skidding, with worn tyres...IRL cars have TREMENDOUS grip....Again; there is a difference between the powerfull cars we drive in GT, and Your grannys low powered FF model...YES...But again, her tyres are worn out street tyres, and I guarantee You that her 4 tyres has 4 different airpressures to them...She doesn`t have racing slicks on a one-way race track. The traction on a town road full of holes and water piddles somehow makes up for that..

Can You imagine HOW MANY people would be killed in IRL traffic every time it rained, if the "driving physics" from GT6 (or earlier versions) were true??? lol...Well in my little sleepy Danish town I`d say a rainy day would cause approx 5000 casualties in the traffic if those GT driving physics were true...Glad I don`t live in London o r New York then...2-3 mio crashes with/without deadly ending on a rainy day....

So SRF is of course way more realistic than no SRF...Me??? I don`t use SRF, surprisingly....Reason? It would make me "uncool", and unsharp....I really WANT to use it, but I don`t....

Hey Formula 1 IRL....They don`t skid....OK sometimes they skid a few meters, but thats a mistake, and they recover from it immediatly. The smoke You see from the tyres in F1 is due to max braking, and when they leave the pit with spinning wheels....

But my point is that SRF is not "realistic" because such a "skid recovery force" that catches a car when it skids, does not exist. On the other hand; cars simply do not skid anywhere as much IRL than they do in GT...Therefore SRF is more realistic than no SRF....Also due to PD`s "interpretation" of rain...

Oh someone asked if SRF was always in GT, or if it came with GT5??? Well I started with GT5Prologue, and as far as I recall there was not a SRF, BUT there was something else...."Standard" or "Proffessional" You could choose from..."Standard" was....The exact same thing as SRF...On the leaderbords (time trial in arcade mode when online) everybody used "Standard"....In the earlier GT series I don`t think there was an option to turn on/off "SRF" or "Standard" "Proffessional" - It was simply turned on, and it had no name....In GT5Prologue they came up with the idea of making the cars harder to control, and the option to turn it on or off....In GT5 they finally dubbed it SRF....meeeeh I think I`m right, but not 100% sure

You get the point I'm making, but you are over exaggerating extremely. As @Johnnypenso said: we're not even close to the capabilities of the car when driving on the streets, and the only reason GT6 cars skid so much is because you dont get the sense of speed in the game, and thats why it seems slippery when, in fact, you're just going ridiclously fast.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Why would you care?

In my room the fastest drivers all use SRF. My room fills up every night soon after I start it. SRF is just more fun!

Let's all face reality here. It is a fake car, on pretend tires with no real link to realism. It is all just pretend.

But what a blast it is to zoom around, side by side, in a 425pp car with pretend racing soft tires!!!

I agree with everything you say except for one small correction:

SRF is just more fun! [for me and people that don't care about a simulation experience].

Not everyone wants the same experience as you. Although I'd classify GT as simcade at best, some of us still want as close to a simulation experience as possible and so the use of SRF doesn't fit in with that. It's neither good nor bad, not something we "care" about or don't. Some people want an arcade experience and they're happy with that (Lets face it SRF + RS + 425PP = about as arcade as it gets) and others want as close to a sim experience as possible and SRF doesn't fit with that.

 

[bluecharger]

I agree with everything you say except for one small correction:

SRF is just more fun! [for me and people that don't care about a simulation experience].

Not everyone wants the same experience as you. Although I'd classify GT as simcade at best, some of us still want as close to a simulation experience as possible and so the use of SRF doesn't fit in with that. It's neither good nor bad, not something we "care" about or don't. Some people want an arcade experience and they're happy with that (Lets face it SRF + RS + 425PP = about as arcade as it gets) and others want as close to a sim experience as possible and SRF doesn't fit with that.

And that's when the fight started, Your Honor. I mean, am I right?

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

SRF is unrealistic. There, I said it... And I brought video proof, too!





A 6:08 lap of Nürburgring... In a Focus RS.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

lol

And that's when the fight started, Your Honor. I mean, am I right?

Anytime anyone says this is the best, it is, of course, their opinion. I don't expect @Johnnypenso to share the same opinion as me. I know he is cheap and doesn't want to drive on the most expensive tires. Just kidding johnny.

The point of my post was that @light driver said he felt uncool if he used SRF. He has been shamed into playing the game a certain way. I think that terrible.

As Johnny said, the way I set up my room is almost as arcade style racing as you can get in GT. There is no boost, because I find that ridiculous, and no nitrous. But low PP + racing soft tires and SRF make for a very arcade style game.

People should do what they enjoy with the game. Not what others think they should enjoy. This is not directed at you Johnny, or anyone else in particular. I remember one of the fist messages I posted here describing the way I like to run my room. Someone replied with a simple one word response, "awful". I still remember that.

There are a lot of people that race arcade style sometimes, but still do other styles of racing. My jaw nearly hit the ground last year when I saw one of my PSN friends on Spike TV's GT Academy show.

 

[bluecharger]

SRF is unrealistic. There, I said it... And I brought video proof, too!





A 6:08 lap of Nürburgring... In a Focus RS.

The whole game is unrealistic! You seriously want to try to prove the realism of something with a video game clip?

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

The whole game is unrealistic! You seriously want to try to prove the realism of something with a video game clip?

Or, rather, the incredible lack of realism. We've long since proven that - as the OP asks - SRF is actually realistic.

The video just visualizes the reasoning of how/why SRF is unrealistic. It's absurd to imagine a Ford Focus running a lap of the 'Ring under 7 minutes, let alone under 6:10. It almost breaks the lap record!


Now, the final answer: SRF is highly unrealistic. It is a driver assist for those players who are less experienced, or who want a more "arcade" experience. SRF should be treated the same way as the RBX cars: either love it or hate it, it's a part of the game and you can run with it or ignore it.

 

[bluecharger]

Or, rather, the incredible lack of realism. We've long since proven that - as the OP asks - SRF is actually realistic.

The video just visualizes the reasoning of how/why SRF is unrealistic. It's absurd to imagine a Ford Focus running a lap of the 'Ring under 7 minutes, let alone under 6:10. It almost breaks the lap record!


Now, the final answer: SRF is highly unrealistic. It is a driver assist for those players who are less experienced, or who want a more "arcade" experience. SRF should be treated the same way as the RBX cars: either love it or hate it, it's a part of the game and you can run with it or ignore it.

True, but the problem lies in the wont of "some" to take the likely slower time of a non-SRF Focus and point to it and declare "MORE REALISTIC!" without qualifying that the non-SRF Focus is STILL unrealistic as well. And God forbid Top Gear ever gives one to Sabine and gets a lap anywhere NEAR a game time

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

True, but the problem lies in the wont of "some" to take the likely slower time of a non-SRF Focus and point to it and declare "MORE REALISTIC!" without qualifying that the non-SRF Focus is STILL unrealistic as well. And God forbid Top Gear ever gives one to Sabine and gets a lap anywhere NEAR a game time

That's irrelevant to this particular thread, though.

There are different threads for complaining about non-SRF physics being unrealistic. Right now, we're beating up a dead horse. A question was asked: "Is SRF really that unrealistic" and the answer was given "yes."

 

[bluecharger]

That's irrelevant to this particular thread, though.

There are different threads for complaining about non-SRF physics being unrealistic. Right now, we're beating up a dead horse. A question was asked: "Is SRF really that unrealistic" and the answer was given "yes."

Well 🤬 it then

 

[Chrunch Houston]

I drive a car in real life. There is a car in this game that is very close the to car I drive to work every day.

I use a G27 wheel.

I can drive the car in the game that is just like my car, with no aids, and completely stock, and on comfort tires.

It feels exactly like I am driving my own car.

NOT, (hate to borrow a phrase from the 90's)

I see the words realism, and simulator and sim, thrown around a lot on this website. It is all BS.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I see the words realism, and simulator and sim, thrown around a lot on this website. It is all BS.

Now who's being judgmental of the way other people see the game?

Yes the game isn't a sim, but you can still play it as close to sim as the game will allow if that's what you prefer. To say it's all BS really is simplistic generalizing, just like when someone says racing with 425PP, Racing Softs and all aids on is only for noobs and clowns who can't drive.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Of course, I never said anyone was a n00b. No, I only implied that I preferred a different type of racing.


But, this thread has devolved quite quickly. Aren't we supposed to get along while discussing things and be friendly?

 

[et_]

First off, sorry for bumping this, but now that GT academy has started, and SRF is indeed disallowed there, it proves once and for all that my theory was not correct. It was dead wrong.

BUT: I've done some racing with SRF both on and off now, and saying SRF is for noobs is just stupid! Because, it makes you faster, you get more grip. But I do not feel that the cars are any harder to drive without it, in any way. If anything, they become more predictable, so in that perspective it makes the cars easier to drive... slightly.

And @ITCC_Andrew : FYI, that video with the Focus @ the 'ring proves absolutely nothing. You are running on 550pp which is supercar figures, and they do low 7 on the 'ring IRL already. Then I pressume you used a racing gearbox, racing suspension, a racing LSD, racing flywheel etc. that puts it about even with a race prepped GT3 car. they do the lap in about 6.50 theese days. And then you used RS tyres which is like qualifying tyres IRL, I'd say that is easily 10 seconds off, maybe more considering you dont suffer from any tyre wear whatsoever during the entire lap. On top of that, you used NOS!, which is like playing tennis with the net down. also take into account that you should be faster in a game than IRL because there is no consequenses if you crash, so you can push that much harder.

In all fairness tho, I am aware the times we do in GT6 are a little bit too good to be realistic, even with SRF turned off. But using a car that is tuned to the brink of extinction, on qualifying slicks, with Nitrous Injection is not a way to prove that.

 

[DSUjoeDirte9]

I don't think ive ever used SRF. Not even when i was like, 9 years old playing GT3. I mean i might have but i don't remember, I mean i was 9 years old.

But whenever i use SRF i can't drive at all. It just doesn't fit my driving style and makers me go slower everywhere.

 

[et_]

I don't think ive ever used SRF. Not even when i was like, 9 years old playing GT3. I mean i might have but i don't remember, I mean i was 9 years old.

But whenever i use SRF i can't drive at all. It just doesn't fit my driving style and makers me go slower everywhere.

SRF was not present on GT3/GT4, it was introduced in GT5

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Wasn't me driving that Focus...

 

[Samus]

Whilst the above about the performance upgrades of the Focus is true that video does still show how wildly unrealistic SRF is, the way it moves through corners. Enhanced performance and grip or not, real cars cannnot take corners like that, sliding and then gripping with no speed loss.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

You are right @et_ . SRF is not a noob aid. I allow SRF in my room. There are some really really really fast people that race there and they use SRF.

 

[ukmadmax]

SRF was not present on GT3/GT4, it was introduced in GT5

What I would like to know conclusively is, was SRF introduced as an option in GT5 to allow players to make the game harder by turning it off ?
Basically was SRF always 'on' in pre GT5 games but there was never the option to turn it off ?

 

[chzsln485]

"Is SRF really that unrealistic?"

No car in the real world can magically generate grip when it breaks the limits of traction.

Therefore, put simply, yes.

 

[et_]

Whilst the above about the performance upgrades of the Focus is true that video does still show how wildly unrealistic SRF is, the way it moves through corners. Enhanced performance and grip or not, real cars cannnot take corners like that, sliding and then gripping with no speed loss.

Actually took the time to watch it now, and yes, the car moves in a very unnatural way, however, it will still be moving around weirdly in corners without SRF.

What I would like to know conclusively is, was SRF introduced as an option in GT5 to allow players to make the game harder by turning it off ?
Basically was SRF always 'on' in pre GT5 games but there was never the option to turn it off ?

That was kind of the idea I had all along, but in GT4 and earlier, the cars felt extremely arcadey, there where no movements in the cars, they just turned. and oversteer was almost non existent. so its hard to tell if there was a SRF there.

 

[Johnnypenso]

BUT: I've done some racing with SRF both on and off now, and saying SRF is for noobs is just stupid!
And @ITCC_Andrew : FYI, that video with the Focus @ the 'ring proves absolutely nothing.

Classifying something as "noobish" doesn't mean only noobs use it or that all serious sim drivers avoid it at all times, nothing is that black and white. But I don't think it's going too far out on a limb to say that most people looking for a sim experience will choose not to use SRF when they have a choice and can remain competitive. Doesn't mean they'll never use it, they may want to compete in a TT and have no choice or may enjoy a particular room and use it because they have to to remain competitive.

On the other hand most noobs will tend to prefer SRF, just like they prefer RS tires, simply because it's easier and therefore more fun for them. They aren't looking for realism or a huge challenge, just some fast fun on the track and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just a different preference, but still, it will always be characterized as a noobish preference.

The lap time of the Focus on the 'Ring proves nothing that's correct. That's mostly a function of the physics model, level of tuning and the unrealistically grippy tires. It's the behaviour of the car that's most telling. There's a point in the video around Klostertal, where the Focus is going around 270 km/h and gets either one or two rear wheels off the track and yet does not lose control or even any momentum, just keeps the foot on the floor and the car magically remains in control in spite of being what looks like about 45 degrees to the direction of travel, and gets back on track. If that isn't unrealistic I don't know what is.

 

[cjr3559]

I'm not sure what part of "SRF is for beginners" is misunderstood when GT flat-out describes it as such in the game. This has probably been quoted dozens of times, but here it is extracted right from GT6:

"A function for beginners to stop skidding by increasing grip when wheels start to slip".

 

[et_]

I'm not sure what part of "SRF is for beginners" is misunderstood when GT flat-out describes it as such in the game. This has probably been quoted dozens of times, but here it is extracted right from GT6:

"A function for beginners to stop skidding by increasing grip when wheels start to slip".

Yes, but the cars do not get easier to drive, it just changes how the grip is delivered, and increases it.

 

[FussyFez]

When my Mrs has a go on GT, I turn SRF on and she has fun, if I leave it off, she gets frustrated with understeering or spinning out all the time (also gets TC in the higher powered Rwd stuff).

It makes the game easier.

 

[et_]

When my Mrs has a go on GT, I turn SRF on and she has fun, if I leave it off, she gets frustrated with understeering or spinning out all the time (also gets TC in the higher powered Rwd stuff).

It makes the game easier.

It does? I've not noticed that... if it's true what you say, then maybe I'm just a bit too good, I just adapt to the conditions, regardless if SRF is on or off... Maybe that is the problem, I think all cars are easy, just that they're different.

Hmm, I've not thought of that before, but it makes sense. Maybe less experienced drivers do benefit from the SRF because they do the mistakes I never do.

 

[bluecharger]

On the other hand most noobs will tend to prefer SRF, just like they prefer RS tires, simply because it's easier and therefore more fun for them. They aren't looking for realism or a huge challenge, just some fast fun on the track and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just a different preference, but still, it will always be characterized as a noobish preference.

This ^^^ is my only "problem" with SRF, or anyone's preference for it. If you jump on this game as a first-timer, and use all the aids provided, and bolt on every go-fast part immediately, that's going to be how you get used to the game.

I'll admit it's a bear to get back to basics and turn a clean lap when SRF is forced off in a TT, but I do it simply because it's something I shouldn't lose touch with. In GT5, I pretty much had everything on when allowed. In GT6 my "style" simply fits how cars handle with SRF on, almost regardless of tuning level, but I've discovered that ASM and steering assist hurt me far more than help. I've stopped playing with ABS, it's just at 1 always now and that's mostly because I hate the constant screech of tires (DS3 user, so hard to modulate unassisted braking). As much as possible I deal with oversteer through tuning and leave TC alone. But SRF doesn't just "add grip"; it changes how a car handles, like any bolt-on suspension part or tire option. I brake a certain distance from a corner; I turn in at a certain point; I hit the accelerator at a certain point. SRF is (for better or worse) a large factor in the cars behaving as I expect them to according to my timing and inputs.

I've been through some favorite cars multiple times tuning for Nurburgring, and I simply can't tune what SRF does into a car. So I admit to a certain "unrealness" about it; but without SRF, some cars I'd never touch again after the first experience.