Is the Dodge Laramie RAM truck a programming error?

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SirBerra

SirBerra

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Due to the fact that it can be used to win so many 200 A-spec point races and can be used to clobber all types of rally cars in Special Conditions, would it be considered a programming mistake. I've used it in enduros and such and won easily where cars that would seem to be more optimal couldn't cut it for 200 A-spec points. Does it have some sort of freak power to weight ratio or something.

I mean, obviously, the common Dodge RAM in real life isn't any sort of super vehicle. I know that most of you GT purists frown upon using the truck, so why was it given such a blessing of versatility by the GT4 creators (Dodge didn't pay them off, did they)? Although I haven't done exhaustive testing, in my estimation there doesn't seem to be any other car that can win so many different types of races as the Dodge RAM for 200 A-spec points? I'd say probably the Suzuki GSX-R/4 is next best and then the Chap 2J. If I'm wrong about the Dodge RAMs overall versatility, then please feel free to correct me and inform me of what other car is better.

Any thoughts on this.

(I did search, but I didn't find any topic on this. If so, I apologize and have the moderator delete this thread.)
 
It's the extreme weight of the RAM and the unbalanced spreading of A-Spec points that makes it get 200 points in so many races. Its talents are down to the power and the 4WD.

Regards
the Interceptor
 
A-spec points like weight. Weight appears to be the primary factor in determining A-spec points - over and above power or power-to-weight - and the Ram and all of its sister trucks have a hell of a lot of it. I think they just didn't take account of people wanting to put these behemoths in normal races.

Still, the Tank Car would have been a laugh.
 
Aside from the A-spec issue, which has already been covered very well, one of the things these cars do is take advantage of a 'limit' in the GT4 physics engine.

Namely the inability of cars to roll or flip, GT4 lets you put lateral-g loads on teh se cars, that due to th every high COG would almost certainly result is massive stability issues in reality.

Many people have observed the issue to a lesser degree in the way GT4 will not let you lift a wheel (be it a front for RWD cars or a rear for FWD cars) in situations that would allow it in reality.

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
Many people have observed the issue to a lesser degree in the way GT4 will not let you lift a wheel (be it a front for RWD cars or a rear for FWD cars) in situations that would allow it in reality.
Click to expand...

Like this?

pic041705_2.jpg


Or this?

evo_two.jpg


:) Yeah, GT4 won't do that...
 
the Interceptor
It's the extreme weight of the RAM and the unbalanced spreading of A-Spec points that makes it get 200 points in so many races. Its talents are down to the power and the 4WD.

Regards
the Interceptor
Click to expand...

Nicely put, Interceptor.

The Ram is a very, very heavy machine (around 2700kg) and is a very powerful machine. When you put them in this equation, you get 200 A-spec points: GT4 bad physics + Bad AI + Bad Judgement + No Skill monitor + 450 HP truck (x) + 2700 kg (y) = 200 A-spec points.
 
Wolfe2x7
Let's take it a step further... :D --
Click to expand...

Yeah, sure that's cool, but let's stick to reality (of the real kind, not the virtual kind)... 👍 Like this:

sccasolo2nat04_wedht3a1_341.jpg


No collision or accident involved... that's just an E36 M3 turning very hard on very sticky tires... :)
 
soptom
The car above isn't an M3 and if it hasn't clipped a kerb, it isn't set up right.
Click to expand...

I can't speak to how well set up the car is, but it's certainly a '95 M3, and it's definitely fast. I was at the event where that pic was snapped, I've actually stood next to the car, and it's listed in the results (page 28) as a "95 BMW M3 White" where it placed 6th in a class of 41 entrants.

Results: http://www.scca.org/_FileLibrary/File/2004SoloNationalResults.pdf
 
Interesting, the 195 car has a V8 engine, that's why it hasn't got the twin M3 silencer. But it also has different wheels and arches from the other picture...
 
and why is everyone calling it a RAM? it's just Ram, not all caps.

I pretty much use the Ram anymore for off-road events, even though it looks stupid raised all the way up on tiny tires. It looks like it should tip, that's right, but it doesn't. In fact, thanks to a level 6 stabilizer, it don't roll that much either.

there's something else, stabilizer bars seem to have a similar effect from car to car. I know some roll slightly more than others, and I know the minicars don't like it cranked up to 6, but most cars seem to have the same effect on their rollbars. what's up with that?

on the M-car: those two pics were probably taken at different stages in the car's life, hence the detail changes.
 
soptom
Interesting, the 195 car has a V8 engine, that's why it hasn't got the twin M3 silencer. But it also has different wheels and arches from the other picture...
Click to expand...

At the time the picture was taken, it didn't have the V8 -- that came later. Also, the 95 and 195 cars are the same car. In national level SCCA autocross events, a car with two drivers has two numbers, the first one less than 100 and the second one equal to the first plus 100. The extra '1' is generally magnetic and installed/removed when a driver switch is made. If you look close in the shot of the M3, you can see that the spot on the door where the extra '1' would go is actually whiter than the rest of the door.

Being a competitor in Street Modified autocross myself, I can tell you that the only thing that's constant about a Street Modified car is change. The entire exhaust system including catalytic converter and muffler is usually one of the first things replaced. Wheels are swapped around routinely; most serious competitors have at least two sets of race wheels themselves and borrowing (or renting) of wheels and tires from other competitors is a routine thing. I've got pictures of my autocross car in competition on four different sets of wheels.


All of which boils down to... trust me, I know what I'm talking about. The photo above of a car on two wheels is a modified '95 M3 competing at the 2004 SCCA Solo Nationals in Topeka, Kansas, an event in which this particular driver/car placed 6th in the Street Modified class, an impressive showing. Although it had substantial modifications at the time, and even more substantial modifications since, it began its life at some point as a bone stock '95 M3.

And to the best of my knowledge, GT4 cannot duplicate this feat of getting a car up on two wheels simply by cornering on flat pavement, which is a shame for the "real driving simulator". :)
 
Scaff
Many people have observed the issue to a lesser degree in the way GT4 will not let you lift a wheel (be it a front for RWD cars or a rear for FWD cars) in situations that would allow it in reality.
Click to expand...
Ah, but if you take a car off into the grass, you can make the car sit without all four wheels touching the ground. :sly: Therefore, GT4 suspension travels are not drawn properly.

I found this when doing my "family portrait" pictures for my avatar.

Cheers,
 
Ram winning 200 point races? I gotta check this one out! But I would need fair bit of skills, wouldn't I, since I failed miserably while using the Silverado SS against some cars...
 
Additional rant: And oh, by the way, A-Spec points don't know nuthin' about FF cars... :ouch:
 
GT4_Rule
Ram winning 200 point races? I gotta check this one out! But I would need fair bit of skills, wouldn't I, since I failed miserably while using the Silverado SS against some cars...
Click to expand...

Surprisingly GT4_Rule, you really don't need much skill to win a 200-pt A-spec race with the Ram. You cna even slap on a supercharger and it still will be a 200-point race most of the time. :)
 
The Dodge Ram is a programming glitch in it's A-Spec points determination before each race. It has very little to do with it's PWR, weight or power. For example, if you do a stock Ram family cup, it will send you against Japanese Kei-cars and the like. This is a reference for the Dodge's travesty. Just another glitch, similar to the Ford GT glitch.
 
I used the Ram in (most) the Special Conditions hall for 200 points, not an error, just an extremmelly heavy car, maybe one of the heaviest on the game.
 
And of course it handles and performs like a heavy car?

Still, I gotta try it. Good way to earn A-spec points!

Btw, I noticed that when I do Family Cup and win the race the A-spec points aren't added to my total. Why is this?
 
soptom
Interesting, the 195 car has a V8 engine, that's why it hasn't got the twin M3 silencer. But it also has different wheels and arches from the other picture...
Click to expand...
I don't know if jb covered this yet, but I believe if you look at the picture, the arches appear to be aftermarket considering they're lighter than the car.

But jb was there, so I could be wrong.
 
GeorgeMorley
I used the Ram in (most) the Special Conditions hall for 200 points, not an error, just an extremmelly heavy car, maybe one of the heaviest on the game.
Click to expand...
Then try driving a similar truck with the same weight (ballast it if you need to) at a family cup and see how much faster cars you get to race against.
 
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Scaff
Many people have observed the issue to a lesser degree in the way GT4 will not let you lift a wheel (be it a front for RWD cars or a rear for FWD cars) in situations that would allow it in reality.

Regards

Scaff
Click to expand...
anyway, i have a thread some where in the photogallery where i have some pics if that my car acutally lifted up a rear and a front wheel.

anyway, i just took my modified 206 for a spin, and in the 3rd turn my left rear wheel lifted up....:sly: :dopey: :)
 
Christhedude
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anyway, i have a thread some where in the photogallery where i have some pics if that my car acutally lifted up a rear and a front wheel.

anyway, i just took my modified 206 for a spin, and in the 3rd turn my left rear wheel lifted up....:sly: :dopey: :)
Click to expand...

We're talking about wheels lifting under hard cornering on a flat surface -- not from clipping or jumping over a curb, one of which is clearly visible in your Pug photo there.
 
Wolfe2x7
We're talking about wheels lifting under hard cornering on a flat surface -- not from clipping or jumping over a curb, one of which is clearly visible in your Pug photo there.
Click to expand...

i will check my other thread where my FGT lifs up a wheel, caused by too mch oversteering, and then another dude poted a pic of his white 106 entering a turn and lifting up his left rear wheel.

any wolf, my rear wheel got airborne, not caused by bouncing of a cirb!!:)
 

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