Is the IRL too dangerous?

[Cowboys965]

Wouldn't New Hampshire be a low banked oval?

 

[VNAF Ace]

The main problem that most people have touched on is how easily the cars get airborne - with a flat bottom and no under-car aero device, if air gets under there you're going on a very scary ride. At a very high speed.

Measures need to be taken to ensure that cars don't act like ramps in the event of a rear-end collision and if a car does get airborne it doesn't fly 50 feet in the air. Obviously the 2012 design attempts to rectify the former by way of the rear wheel covers, but from what I can tell it'll have the exact same aeroplane physics as the '11 cars should it manage to leave the track. The car body needs to generate sufficient downforce to keep the cars on the track should the front and rear wings lose all aero, which I think is half of the problem; I'm no expert on Indycar aerodynamics but I'm sure if you took the wings off, the cars have dangerously low downforce - if any at all. The car bodies should be designed to generate a substantial percentage of the car's total downforce so if the front and/or rear wings lose downforce there's still something doing its best to keep the vehicle grounded.

Dallara also designed 2 underbody tunnels under the 2012 IndyCar to generate most of its downforce through ground effect. The entire bodywork is made out of carbon fiber so the new rear wheel covers will prevent cars from going airborne from wheel-to-wheel contact.

So the car has already improved aside from the open cockpit. The next significant track improvement should be replacing catch fencing with some sort of clear bulletproof glass or plastic, that will prevent debris from flying into the stands and possibly minimize the use of metal support beams.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I don't know much about IRL and how dangerous it is but after seeing a few images of what happened yesterday, and after reading lots, I think it becomes clear that the guys yesterday were playing some sort of sick russian roulette game with those cars, at that track.

Even racing fans could predict it. I noticed in the autosport forum only two posts commenting on the race before the accident happened. Here their text:

Crikey. They don't seem to have any problems running three wide.


....

Any crash now and half the field is out.



Marshall Pruett aludes to this also in his tribute article (linked by Speedster in the appropriate thread)

• I’m frustrated that most of the people in the paddock and media center knew a big wreck would happen as early as Friday, yet none of us pushed hard enough to demand changes of some sorts to reduce the possibility of a crash like the one that claimed Dan.

I have no words to describe what I think about this. And I think it is a pity that in the current lineup of drivers we don't get guys like Jackie Stewart or Niki Lauda that could say (and did say) "I will NOT race in these conditions".

I just hope the price paid (Dan Wheldon's life) will make people realize that you don't need to add danger to what is already dangerous by nature.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

ill be interested to see what happens......i suggest no moer Vegas race......And what happens in vegas does NOT stay in vegas.

I don't think getting rid of Vegas will simply fix the problem. Vegas is rather unique in that it has some of the steepest banking on any circuit in Indycar with twenty degrees of banking through the corners - but Texas Motor Speedway, which is of similar length and similar shape to Las Vegas, has twenty-four degree banking. Simply dropping the Vegas race doesn't guarantee the problem will be fixed.

No, what Indycar needs to look at is the expanded grid for that race. Most events have a twenty-five car grid, but Las Vegas had thirty-four cars - an increase of 40%. And the Indycar season calendar has gradually moved away from oval events; of the seventee races on the calendar, just seven were at ovals. The last time oval races outweighed road and street events was in 2009, so even drivers who have been in the category for two years still have relatively less experience racing on ovals that the likes of Dario Franchitti and Dan Wheldon.

 

[Furinkazen]

I will say that after this race I don't think I'll ever watch Indycar again. It's too scary for me after the events of yesterday.

 

[boiltheocean]

Comparing one cherry-picked track to an entire class of tracks, when no series races on both, is clearly an apples/oranges comparison.

The question we're collectively trying to answer, I believe, is whether or not, all other things being equal, ovals are more dangerous than road courses. The best source of evidence for answering that question would come from a series that races more or less the same cars with more or less the same drivers on both road courses and ovals in the same season. With Indy, we have that series. Unless I'm forgetting something, every driver that has died in Indy since reunification has done so on an oval, and none have died on road courses. Now, the sample size is not satisfactory, but it is still a infinitely more useful comparison than the strawman "all ovals vs. nurb" you keep hawking.

If you want to make a generalized statement (and one which you claim is evidence-based) to the effect that road courses are just as dangerous as ovals, I feel that your only source of useful evidence would have to involve a series that races extensively on a variety of both. Any effort short of that faces the impossible task of trying to account for myriad external variables having nothing to do with the question at hand.

I see a lot of "all racing is dangerous" talk, and this is true, but this sentiment implies that there somehow isn't a safety difference between different forms of racing, when clearly, there is. I think the evidence in the last 15 years of Indy racing suggests that ovals, at least in the narrow context of Indy's style of open-wheel racing are, in fact, more dangerous than road courses. Maybe they don't have to be. Maybe some changes to the cars or rules could resolve this discrepancy. I don't know. All I know is that we have very little useful evidence, but what little we have is damning.

This post is great.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I think the catch fencing is the one that dealt the most damage.

They should just go strictly road racing (or just dump the mile and a halfs). Hone NA talent so we could have another American in F1.

I miss CART

Don't agree, road courses are just as bad Rockenfeller could have died from his wreck if he didn't get out in time. The car burned down to the frame. All this debate does is bring up the idea that maybe this class of cars should be outlawed, just like WRC and Class-C LMP cars went through when drivers died or awful wrecks occured, some classes should be scaled back others probably not. Deciding one whether to race or not is the question.

R.I.P Dan Wheldon

 

[Ardius]

I have no words to describe what I think about this. And I think it is a pity that in the current lineup of drivers we don't get guys like Jackie Stewart or Niki Lauda that could say (and did say) "I will NOT race in these conditions".

I just hope the price paid (Dan Wheldon's life) will make people realize that you don't need to add danger to what is already dangerous by nature.

What? This is not comparable at all to what Stewart and Lauda lived through. How can you expect the current Indycar drivers to decide they will not race when we have not had any fatalaties for many years? This is nothing like with Stewart especially who drove through many races and seasons seeing many drivers die.

Certainly its a shame that this race went ahead, but to compare the situation to the 60s and 70s is just disrespectful. Concerns were raised before this race, but none were directly to do with a possible fatalaty. No one expected anyone to die.
Was this naive? Perhaps, but it is no pity that none of the drivers refused to race. It was not a certainty like in Stewart and Laudas day.

People accept that the racing is safe as long as there are no serious accidents on a regular basis. Only then something is changed. It has been this way forever - after all, it is difficult to predict the future and even more difficult to predict every single permutation of a racing accident.

The concerns raised before the event were over the possiblity of a large accident taking out a lot of the field and possibly causing injuries. No one expected anyone to die. Stewart and Lauda fully expected people to die - a pretty crucial difference when deciding not to race!

I am not saying that we should always accept and never push for more safety. I just massively disagree with comparing it to a completely different era and saying its a pity none of the drivers refused to race - which is unbelievably disrespectful to them, especially the ones who did raise concerns like Dario Franchitti.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

What? This is not comparable at all to what Stewart and Lauda lived through. How can you expect the current Indycar drivers to decide they will not race when we have not had any fatalaties for many years? This is nothing like with Stewart especially who drove through many races and seasons seeing many drivers die.

Certainly its a shame that this race went ahead, but to compare the situation to the 60s and 70s is just disrespectful. Concerns were raised before this race, but none were directly to do with a possible fatalaty. No one expected anyone to die.
Was this naive? Perhaps, but it is no pity that none of the drivers refused to race. It was not a certainty like in Stewart and Laudas day.

People accept that the racing is safe as long as there are no serious accidents on a regular basis. Only then something is changed. It has been this way forever - after all, it is difficult to predict the future and even more difficult to predict every single permutation of a racing accident.

The concerns raised before the event were over the possiblity of a large accident taking out a lot of the field and possibly causing injuries. No one expected anyone to die. Stewart and Lauda fully expected people to die - a pretty crucial difference when deciding not to race!

I am not saying that we should always accept and never push for more safety. I just massively disagree with comparing it to a completely different era and saying its a pity none of the drivers refused to race - which is unbelievably disrespectful to them, especially the ones who did raise concerns like Dario Franchitti.

The last IZOD fatality wasn't even a decade ago it was five years ago so when you say years you kind of make it seem like a vast amount of time. I agree though the days of Stewart and Lauda aren't the same as today though.

 

[Ardius]

5 years is a long time compared to almost every few weeks...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

5 years is a long time compared to almost every few weeks...

Not when you stack up the statistics of other forms of open wheel and other racing series in general. As well as when you add the statistics of safety today especially on oval circuits. Look I'm not going to debate you on this it isnt 1950 or 60, when an incident occurs once every five years or shorter maybe that certain racing series needs to be relooked at sooner than later. I agreed with you but what you disagreed with and then using the same example that person used that you just disagreed with is a bit ironic.

 

[Ardius]

You know what I meant by it. Look, I know we are all still in shock over this and tempers are easily frayed. Lets just leave it be, eh? I agree lets not start an argument over such a trivial matter.

 

[Rich S]

With drivers buried so deep in openwheel cockpit nowadays I dont think its much of a problem. Of course there is the fluke accident here and there, like what happened to Ayrton Senna, or Felipe Massa, but I dont think enough to warrant a whole sale change. Maybe a larger windscreen to help deflect oncoming debri.

Reminds me a bit of the large crashes at Le Mans this year due to slower traffic. Of course the driving ability of those behind the wheel of the slower cars should be addressed, but I dont think it should mean the end of multi class racing at Le Mans.

Dan Wheldon did go into the catch fence and thats probably where he sustained his fatal injuries. But instead of looking at open cockpits I think they need to look at what caused the crash, and not the crash. What caused the crash was racing that allows for zero room for error. In motoGP if you make a mistake all the tracks have plenty of runoff room for you to fall off and slide to a stop. Formula 1 you make a mistake you usually slide through alot of sand then it a tire barrier and the last thing is a catch fence. In those sports if you make one mistake outside of the start you dont collect 5 or 6 other guys. And you're rarely going 220mph.

Oval racing is a dangerous form of racing, high speed and close racing, but the danger can be curbed by doing what CART did, which is run them on 1 mile flat ovals that spread the cars out and slow cornering speeds.

CART's schedule featured

1 mile Phoenix flat
1 mile Chicago (old track) 165 mph pole
1.3 mile Twin Ring Motegi (210 mph pole)
1 mile Nazareth flat (175 mph pole)
1 mile Milwaukee flat (175 mph pole)
1.25 mile Gateway flat (180 mph pole)
1.8 mile Rio De Janeiro flat (175 mph pole)

Source

The average pole speed for an IRL oval race is in the 220mph range. Compare that to the tracks oval CART ran on, which had pole speeds 30, 40, or even 50mph slower. And CART had much faster cars then the IRL.

CART actually tried to race at Texas, a 1.5 mile high banked NASCAR oval that the IRL runs on, but cancelled the race after several brutal crashes in practice and drivers blacking out due to 4-5gs of cornering for 50% of the lap

Jacque Villeneuve, Paul Tracy, Michael Schumacher, Sebastain Bourdais have all spoken out against the current IRL form of oval racing.

So whats to blame?

#1 Racing on 1.5 mile high banked ovals with openwheel cars designed for big heavy stock cars
#2 spec cars which cant break away from each other

I halfheartedly agree, apart from the 1 mile track only example. CART used to run at Fontana & Michigan, and CART/Champ car still has the closed course speed record in a racing league.

They need too cut the 1.5 milers.....Thats true.

I do not believe the Indy cars are too fast. The oval racing is not selective enough, thats where I agree with the above post. If anything, the Indy cars are too slow. At a typical Gran Prix circuit they must be atleast 10-12 seconds a lap off the Formula 1 times. Their really about the same performance levels of a strong LMP class car from a few years ago. An Indy car wouldnt be able to light a candle to a GP2 car at a track like Monaco. Indy should really focus on the road courses, 90% of the schedule should be road course.

I love watching the Indy 500 at 225 mph, the last thing they need to do is slow the cars down. Think of all the legends that drove through some of the most dangerous periods in motorsports and survived to tell the tale. Drivers & fans now are overly sensitive to the max. Sports like High School Football, cycling, SCUBA DIVING of all things & surfing are far far more dangerous than driving a modern day race car.....Yet the same rednecks whom are traumatized over racing fatalities have no problem at all with minors competing in Football.

I see people in Indy car who dont belong in the league (or whom could be replaced by more talented drivers in lesser series). indy has become pure PR with only a whee bit of substance.

Formula 1 atleast has substance in the very talented drivers & engineers; teams whom arent afraid to fire a guy who isnt good enough. Indy car hires for TV ratings. Look at Wheldon, he couldnt find a full time ride, there's so many mediocre TV personalities who cant drive worth **** competing in the series. Woman, and TV reporters racing! Indy has become very affirmative action-esk.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I don't think IRL racers expected a death so don't make of my post what isn't in it. They're normal guys (and girls) with a risky job that's all. However, even when a death only happens every few years (1996x2 -1999x2 - 2003 - 2006 - 2011), sometimes luck gets pushed. That's when guys like Stewart or Lauda would be useful. I understand that IRL isn't, under ordinary circumstances, as dangerous as the 60's / 70's F1, but that is irrelevant, because the attitude they had applies both to call for increased security in the series (to be imposed via regulations) OR to refuse racing in a specific event that , for whatever reason, is particularly dangerous.

But ok, I'll drop Stewart and Lauda, fearing a pointless debate about number of deaths vs reasons to take a stand. And I'll call Prost instead, maybe my point becomes clearer.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-11-06/sports/sp-647_1_japanese-grand-prix

 

[Grayfox]

Could you not just say "Is indy cart racing dangerous?"

All racing is dangerous can has risk of death.

Why do some people box when it is known it can cause brain damage?
Because they in joy it.

 

[Earth]

? Banked-oval track designs funnel out-of-control vehicles, like Dan's,back into the actual racing-traffic? There are no run-off areas for out-of-control vehicles? When they slow down, they slide down the embankment, back into +200mph traffic? NASCAR vehicles are too heavy (and slippery) to swerve, and Indy cars are too fast and pitched to dodge that vehicle if they aren't already on an averse traject

Are you somehow suggesting that ovals are intentionally designed to create crashes and pileups?

Earth, you either clearly DO NOT know a thing about IndyCar racing or you're one of those insane Champ Car Fanatics who chant "death to the IRL" even though the war ended almost 4 years ago.

1. It's called the IZOD IndyCar Series now and the sanctioning body is called IndyCar.

2. Paul Tracy raced this weekend at Las Vegas so he clearly didn't refuse to race ovals in an IndyCar.

3. Drivers have gotten killed on road and street courses and dirt tracks too. Racing has always been dangerous and any real race fan realizes that you cannot eliminate injuries or deaths, just improve car and track safety. The only way to eliminate racing injuries and deaths is to eliminate racing altogether.

4. IndyCar already contracted Dallara to build the new 2012 chassis which is designed to prevent cars from going airborne from wheel-to-wheel contact.

Paul Tracy said that Indycar oval racing was dangerous, and he would only do it for the right price. So somebody must have paid him what he was asking.

No, you cant eliminate injuries or deaths in racing, but you can limit them by taking proactive safety measures. Could Greg Moore's death had been prevented if the infield area off of turn 2 at California Motor Speedway had been paved? Most likely. Could Jeff Krosnoff's death have been prevented if there was a catch fence between the track and a tree and an official? Most likely. What if Dale Earnhardt was wearing a hans device?

How about the big wrecks at Le Mans this year? The tire wall did very little to keep the car inside the confines of the track. Media should not have been in an area like that where there was the possibility of a high speed crash. Mike Rockenfeller came out of his crash OK because the organizers planned ahead for such a crash by placing catch fencing at that kink, which kept his car inside the confines of the track.

I, among others tried to blow the whistle on Indycar pack racing.

After watching the race last night I have to say its too dangerous. 20 openwheel cars in a tight pack going 210 mph through rather flat sharp turns?And if one person makes a small mistake? They're in the catch fence?

It comes down to oval selection and the cars. If you race on the ovals that CART ran on in the 90s, flat tight 1 miles or big tracks like Indy or Michigan where the different levels of horsepower separated the cars the chance of the cars touching wheels goes down alot.

With the IRL, I guess they're trying to put on a great show, so they give these super high downforce light weight spec cars a puny 650 horsepower so they're stuck in packs on 1.5 mile NASCAR tracks.

When CART ran on the ovals they had 950 horsepower, little wing. They actually had to drive the ovals instead of just floor it like they're doing now. Because of that there were no packs and the cars got separation from each other reducing the risk of contact.

The IRL is playing a very dangerous game right now. Sure, I guess you can say its entertaining, but the danger makes me sick. I probably wont watch again just because of that.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3988851#post3988851
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3988878#post3988878

Why did nobody pay attention? Because before now this type of racing hadn't resulted in a death. Before it was crushed spines, a severed foot, and other gruesome injuries. Now Dan Wheldon had to pay the ultimate price to bring the safety issue of openwheel pack racing to the forefront.

If somehow Wheldon didnt hit the catch fence the wrong way and survived, almost everyone would be praising the cars about how safe they are and how the drivers can survive even the worse accidents. Of course that opinion doesnt keep in mind the accident itself, and how fortunate Indycar is that there havent been more with more deaths.

As for next year's car, wow is it ugly. It may just be the end of Indycar if that monstrosity doesnt produce good racing. I know the Wheldon family will sue Indycar for as much as they can get, and rightfully so. How much can a series on the edge survive a hit like this I dont know.

Watchdogs pointed out the danger of pack racing and were ignored. The ACO saw the danger of Le Mans cars flipping and getting too fast so what did they do? Massive rule changes like reducing the power and downforce of the cars by 20% and adding fins to the cars to prevent blowovers.

Indycar pack racing had produced many accidents and injuries and miraculously until now no deaths, so what did the braintrust do? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. They say the danger but instead put sponsorship dollar and TV ratings ahead of the safety of the drivers. The rediculous double file restarts, everything was for the show and did not take into account the safety of the drivers.

I guarantee you now the drivers will think twice before strapping into another one of these races again. They may indeed go Stewart and Lauda and boycott unsafe races.

Sure, Indycar pack racing was not as dangerous as old school racing, but the standards have risen, and nobody should be taking risks that allow for so little margin of error witch such horrible consequences just around the corner.

 

[spacecowboy73]

I know the Wheldon family will sue Indycar for as much as they can get, and rightfully so. How much can a series on the edge survive a hit like this I dont know.

I'm sorry, but with posts like this it seems this thread is getting a bit ridiculous. You know they are going to sue? You have some inside information?

 

[CSLACR]

Warning - The following videos are not made by me and show graphic crashes in full detail, I haven't watched every second of each video, but enough to know if horrific crashes bother you, do NOT click any of the links.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQbgSe9S54I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrr-j-c1mXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfzZxOVqfFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D9ipEXm2FA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKDT2KLPpWc
And catch fire..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEWCd7lwUNg&feature=relmfu
F1 cars catch air on road courses...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adIJJ_jHw1k
And here's an F1 car, running into the wheel of another, and catching air, flipping, and then a resulting ball of fire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IO41S4hVgE&feature=related
And the most non oval flips and back into traffic for last.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKyR8I3SwA8

Sorry, cars catching air and flipping still isn't new, nor is it only an "open wheel" problem.
If the right things happen, anything will catch air and flip like hell.

Continuing to post about how IRL is too dangerous because the cars catch air and/or on fire in the way this accident happened, is to say all racing is too dangerous. And it's not just IRL cars, F1 cars, along with all others have this happen as well.

In almost all cases the leagues make safety changes over bad accidents, and IRL already has something on the way.

 

[Masi_23]

Like i mentioned before, i think the catch fencing is what certainly killed Dan - pure metal with metal tubing skeleton - made for stock cars, not open wheel, open cockpit cars. The added speed (because of the nature of the track with its high banked corners) plus a very crowded track with retaining walls constantly just a few feet away the whole way round added risk by the multiple. Dump these mile-and-a-halfs.



Nigel Mansell statement about Dan Wheldon and Indy:

I have a constant reminder of how unforgiving IndyCar racing can be because I had128 stitches in my lower back after hitting a brick wall at 220mph in 1993.

Motor sport is dangerous. But what happened to Dan Wheldon was devastating - such a sad loss for the country. I followed his career and met him several times. He was an incredibly likeable and charismatic young man. He was a great success story who did Britain proud. My heart goes out to his wife and family.

I was lucky enough to win the IndyCar championship. But the greatest number of cars you had on any track then was 33 on a two-and-a-half-mile oval. To have more than that - 34 on Sunday - on a smaller circuit is extremely unusual. I also think the format where they mixed the drivers up - offering a pot of gold to drive from the back of the grid to win it - was not right.

Formula One and IndyCar are two different types of racing. In IndyCar, they average 220mph per lap. You are never more than 20 metres away from a barrier at every corner. So when an accident happens, it’s a big one. It’s not really possible to have large run-off areas. So how they govern the race and apply the rules is far more important than when you are racing on a circuit where you can move the barriers back or put more tarmac down.

You believe as a driver this kind of thing is never going to happen to you, but to someone else. Otherwise, I don’t think you can do the job. You have to believe in your ability. Being a parent of two boys who race makes for tough watching, just as it is for wives and girlfriends. They don’t get the thrill and enjoyment of being in the car — they only have the fear of what might happen.

 

[CSLACR]

Like i mentioned before, i think the catch fencing is what certainly killed Dan - pure metal with metal tubing skeleton - made for stock cars, not open wheel, open cockpit cars. The added speed (because of the nature of the track with its high banked corners) plus a very crowded track with retaining walls constantly just a few feet away the whole way round added risk by the multiple. Dump these mile-and-a-halfs.


Nigel Mansell statement about Dan Wheldon and Indy:

I don't know that they need to dump the 1.5 mile tracks, it seems the fencing type (I'm not familiar) had a big role in this, which can be changed, it also seems the car design had some flaws, which have already been potentially improved.

The one very questionable thing IRL did do, was offer 5 MILLION to anyone who could potentially win from the back. I've never heard of such a thing, and mixing semi-amateurs and offering a gold mine like that could easily provoke them into making risky maneuvers they otherwise wouldn't make.
Add to that adding extra cars to the field on a smaller track, I have to wonder what they were thinking, and the answer is obvious, to put on a spectacle.
So in that regard, I find the IRL acted irresponsibly on their part.

But as all other series, and IRL has already done, I expect they already have learned from this, and perhaps it's a lesson to the drivers that their safety should still be their own priority as well, boycotting a race of to much danger is always an option. Ultimately, the drivers accept the risk every time they get into their cars, that they may die today, and hopefully this will serve them a reminder that nobody is invincible, and if they do feel in danger they can take action.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The one very questionable thing IRL did do, was offer 5 MILLION to anyone who could potentially win from the back. I've never heard of such a thing, and mixing semi-amateurs and offering a gold mine like that could easily provoke them into making risky maneuvers they otherwise wouldn't make.

Dan Wheldon was the only driver who took up the challenge. And although the grid was expanded to thirty-four cars, none of the drivers were first-time racers.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

One of ESPN's writers has said "some of the people that were driving in this event yesterday had no business being in it". I don't really follow Indycar the way I do Formula 1, so I wonder who he meant ...

 

[Pezzarinho17]

The way the oval races are set up (especially with high banking) is begging for big accidents. Those massive run off areas becoming popular at tracks are not designers being ultra kind to the drivers! You have a field of too many cars running on a track inches apart at over 200mph at all times. Even if you have a small crash you are going to the outside, where you will hit a wall (and possibly another car) and be pushed back across the same track (more cars) before finally ending up on the inside.

There are several issues to tackle:

• The number of cars
• Exposed tyres
• Wall design
• Stopping the cars going back across the track again
• Cars getting airborn
• Open cockpit

Some of this is the track, but ultimately most of the emphasise is with the car designer. Yes the cars are designed to be quick, but that should be more than just secondary behind safety. I think they could change more on the cars for these oval races, such as the possibility of enclosed cockpits, wheel housing (doesn't have to be dramatic, just put something in the way of the tyre on tyre impacts which launch cars in the air), and other devices aimed at keeping the car on the ground and the driver safe.

As for the track itself, its a tall order to redesign the existing ovals with space as it is, but too often cars hit the barriers above the safety wall which can't ever be good. Raise protective barrier, raise spectator stands? I'm sure this has all been looked into, but there still needs to be more done about the sport if you are going to run at such high speeds at tracks begging for massive crashes.

 

[MustangRyan]

The reason that so many cars were in the field was because this was the last race for the to-be-replaced current Dallara chassis. There were a lot of cars sitting in shops that were going to be obsolete on Monday. Since they were all going to be scrapped on Monday, it made sense to try to get one more payday out of them before the new 2012 chassis rendered them worthless. As stated before, it was not for the $5M challenge, which only Wheldon accepted.

 

[EDK]

One of ESPN's writers has said "some of the people that were driving in this event yesterday had no business being in it". I don't really follow Indycar the way I do Formula 1, so I wonder who he meant ...

The starting grid is still published here -

http://espn.go.com/racing/grid?raceId=201110160762&series=indycar

You can click the drivers to see how many starts they have this year and for their Indy Career. Here are the less experienced drivers -

Pippa Mann

Townsend Bell

Tomas Scheckter

Davey Hamilton

Jay Howard

Wade Cunningham

And of course, Cunningham's car started the chain reaction that we saw. One could infer that the writer is taking the cowardly route toward casting blame to Cunningham.

But I think if you take a step back, you'll realize that this could have been caused by any one of the drivers, and that any one of them could have been the victim.

 

[arvin charles]

IndyCar: Oval Madness by Robin Miller

Adrian Fernandez, who quit open wheel racing in 2004 when the Indy Racing League was all ovals because he felt it was "too dangerous" on the 1.5-mile tracks, was sitting on the pit wall Sunday afternoon while we waited on the inevitable news about Dan Wheldon.

"I have never seen drivers so on edge as they were this morning," said Fernandez, who won oval races in CART and IRL during his 12-year career. "And I mean all of them I talked to were really concerned about the speeds and running three abreast."

Unfortunately, their fears were well founded as Wheldon perished instantly in a brutal, 15-car pileup on Lap 12 at Las Vegas Motor Speedway.

But as tragic and shocking as it was to lose to the two-time Indy 500 winner, it really didn’t surprise a lot of us who have cringed for the past 15 years watching the madness of pack racing an Indy car at over 210 mph.

The longtime IRL mantra of low horsepower and high downforce on banked tracks built for NASCAR was always a recipe for disaster because it forced the drivers to run wide open every lap or else lose 10 spots or get run over.

In the process, wheels were interlocked and tires rubbed and it was a ticking time bomb.

Kenny Brack was badly battered at Texas in 2003, Ryan Briscoe suffered serious injuries in a nasty 2004 accident at ChicagoLand and Dario Franchitti walked away from a frightening flip at Michigan in 2007.

I wrote a commentary after Brack’s wreck referring to this madness as Death Race 2000 yet, incredibly, the countless crashes on these tracks never resulted in a fatality.

Until Sunday afternoon.

'It’s not racing, it’s insanity," said one veteran after the race was red flagged and eventually canceled following a 5-lap tribute to Wheldon. "I wasn’t going back out there if they put a gun to my head."
"I have never seen drivers so on edge as they were this morning (at Las Vegas Motor Speedway)..." - Adrian Fernandez

Russian Roulette on four wheels has always made for exciting finishes but pack racing where cars are stuck together for long periods of time isn’t pure racing or even skillful.

"It’s nothing more than a big dyno test," said Will Power prior to the season finale.

And, because Vegas had so much more grip than Kentucky, the speeds were 7-8 mph - cresting 224 mph in traffic during practice.

It also allowed the cars to run three abreast in the corners, pure lunacy with open wheels.

Put some inexperienced drivers on an oval that’s easy to run flat out in 34 identical cars and you are asking for disaster. Nobody can get away and it’s a swarm.

CART figured out a way to run superspeedways with big fields in the late 1990s with an aero helper known as the Handford Device. It allowed the cars to slingshot and get separation and there were more than 150 passes for the lead at Michigan one year.

"We were able to make it work and the problem is fixable," said Steve Horne, the longtime car owner who now assists Tony Kanaan. "We just need to tell the engineers and aerodynamicists to come up with something.

"Mark Handford wasn’t a racer, he was a wind tunnel guy but he gave us something that worked very well."

What would really work well is to increase the horsepower to 900 and take away a healthy dose of downforce so drivers would have to brake for the corners on ovals. No more running wide open: ANYWHERE. And that’s still a possibility with the new cars and engines for 2012.

Bringing back Phoenix, Milwaukee and Loudon would be perfect because those are short ovals that require a lot more driver skill than the 1.5-mile cookie cutters.

If you can’t bring back those old Indy-car bastions, the only way to keep running Texas, Kentucky, Fontana and Vegas is to get creative and do away with pack racing.

The pack mentality surfaced Sunday night as Randy Bernard got inundated with hate mail, people blaming him for Wheldon’s death in a gimmick race. The INDYCAR CEO immediately began questioning himself on whether there were too many cars or the series should have avoided places like Las Vegas Motor Speedway.

Were 34 cars too many? Possibly but who’s to say there wouldn’t have been a big crash with 24 cars. Vegas, Texas and Fontana should all go away unless something sensible is designed to create separation.

But Bernard certainly shouldn’t beat himself up for trying to inject new storylines and keep ovals on the schedule.

The series had a formula for what happened here Sunday a long time before Bernard was hired. He inherited this madness. So now he needs to have new car boss Tony Cotman, tech chief Will Phillips and some engineers to figure out a way to make things racy while eliminating running in place at 220 mph side-by-side and flirting with calamity in every corner.

 

[CSLACR]

Dan Wheldon was the only driver who took up the challenge. And although the grid was expanded to thirty-four cars, none of the drivers were first-time racers.

Another interesting tidbit, not sure what to say to that.
From what I'd heard in this thread, some drivers were at least relatively new to ovals, which is what I meant but didn't state clearly.

One of ESPN's writers has said "some of the people that were driving in this event yesterday had no business being in it". I don't really follow Indycar the way I do Formula 1, so I wonder who he meant ...

Probably just that they don't race every week in IRL.
Everybody wants that scapegoat, the media certainly won't care who it is or if there's any merit to it.

The starting grid is still published here -

http://espn.go.com/racing/grid?raceId=201110160762&series=indycar

You can click the drivers to see how many starts they have this year and for their Indy Career. Here are the less experienced drivers -

Pippa Mann

Townsend Bell

Tomas Scheckter

Davey Hamilton

Jay Howard

Wade Cunningham

And of course, Cunningham's car started the chain reaction that we saw. One could infer that the writer is taking the cowardly route toward casting blame to Cunningham.

But I think if you take a step back, you'll realize that this could have been caused by any one of the drivers, and that any one of them could have been the victim.

Scapegoat.
They'll blame anyone and everyone until it's not a hot topic anymore. Very much agreed it could have been caused by any driver in the field, no matter their experience level, just part of the human element.

arvin charles - One has to wonder why the drivers went onto the track in the first place with their after-race statements, at least I do.
I know to be a race car driver you have to believe you won't die to continue your career, but it sounds like the drivers are claiming they were afraid for their lives, and again, hopefully this serves them a reminder to speak up or even sit out if that fear crops up, anyone ok with racing an open-wheel IRL car at the speeds they run should not have a fear entering the race, it's against their nature.

 

[Ardius]

Technically it was Tagliani and Briscoe making slight contact that started a chain reaction of cars slowing down and other cars trying to take advantage.

 

[Sharky.]

Cunningham isn't as much of a rookie as his three ICS starts suggest, he's been in Indy Lights for many years now so he knows his way around an oval (hurr durr me so funny).

Besides, Milka Duno was more of a danger to other drivers than any rookies have ever been!

 

[MTLclllutch]

open cockpit should stick to road tracks, case closed