Is there any point in the difficulty level?

  • Thread starter GazB_UK
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I find myself disagreeing with both the extreme arguments in this thread. It's been an interesting read though.

I do find it funny when people say 'fun doesn't cut it' on a forum where probably 90% of people played the menus on the hardest difficulty though.
 
GazB_UK
Hi all,
New to GTPlanet and GT7 but im wondering what the point is to the dificulty rating.

I started on hard and ive been progressing nicely (apart from the famous gr3 event at the start) and now ive got to the stage where i cant win gold without either tuning the cars up (which i really cant be bothered with) or turning the setting down to normal. Ive just got to menu book 11 and 12 (french hot hatches and petite course de france) and i cant get gold. It was only today that i realised that the prize money doesnt change with difficulty so im now tempted to go down to normal.
Ive got a couple of questions.

1. If i stick with hard am i expected to tune up cars for upcoming events to be able to compete and get gold?

2. The update from polyphony mentioned further upcoming changes to prize money for events based on a number of factors but will one of those factors be the difficulty setting?

Also, sorry if this has already been covered. 🙂
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Yeah mate, I dunno, seems like nobody in thread knows tits from ass either. Stick with hard, tune up n have a laugh eh
Wheatybic
u cant be bothered to go to the shop and put a turbo into a car or soft tyres/weight reduction??
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This by far is the dirtiest, obvious strawman I've ever seen from the likes of you. Hilarious. 1,000,000/10 humor - IGN
 
CamPatUK
I find myself disagreeing with both the extreme arguments in this thread. It's been an interesting read though.

I do find it funny when people say 'fun doesn't cut it' on a forum where probably 90% of people played the menus on the hardest difficulty though.
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Interesting, I wonder what you mean exactly.
I certainly don't want to speak for you.

Are you saying that I said "fun doesn't cut it" ?
I play gt to have fun.
I play gt in the harder settings because I find that fun for myself.
Wanting to have better payouts based on the difficulty level is totally legitimate, especially in the context that we all find ourselves in: the need to grind to get more money to get more cars...
In our case here, given the situation, wanting to have better payouts based on difficulty level is not related to fun, not directly at least.


If we were given all of the cars from the get go/start, I WOULD STILL DRIVE AND PLAY in the hardest settings.
Why? Because i find it fun, regardless of how others play the game. I would not care having more payout in this scenario because there is absolutely no need...

Sadly we live in a real and virtual world that seem to be intimately tied to how much money we have in our account...
I am in no fault to want to earn more if I work harder....

I agree with you all that ideally: The amount of fun and the amount of money earn should not be linked.
But and except when the situation forces us to be having more, then yes it has to be...

I know you have not made any argument yet, and I am here not arguing with you.
Just preemptively presenting my case and my view points.
Not attacking you at all ;)

I hope to read and to better understand from you, and not wanting to assume in any way.

I just don't see how my view point can be labeled as extreme.

Respectfully yours.
 
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TSTO
Higher difficulty settings should pay more. I really don't understand why they don't in the global settings, but when putting together a custom event those particular difficulty settings do.
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Could it be possible that GT7 was rushed out the door? That is my only question for you..
 
CTznOfTime
Of course it was rushed....
If it wasn't for our impatience with Kaz, he would have taken his sweet time and release GT7 in 2030...

This is all our fault. 😂
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I didn't even think about Kaz' slow pace, notoriously with GT5. You make a damn fine point.
 
I was badly paraphrasing the comment after yours. @KJF stated and others (such as OP) have intimated:

""Fun is it's own reward" doesn't really cut it"

I just found that an interesting take in the body of evidence that is this forum.
 
KJF
Turn the difficulty down to easy. Tuning cars is expensive and the game is very stingy with credits at the moment.
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This is a prime example/case of "playing in the path of least resistance...

Personally I can't do it. I can see why some of you do it...
But turning everything to easy mode is just so boring to me, the game not being challenging is no fun in my eyes...

Rhetorically, I ask "why even bother playing?" ...
In this and from my perspective, I dont even understand why you bother wasting your time playing in easy cruising mode... There is no reward in playing that way.
Having said that I know why you do it...
You guys do it because you just want to get through the game and say that you done it and finish it and be able to claim you finish the game first before anyone else...
If that's fun for you, who am I to stop you (and I am not, and I can't even if I wanted to).

I personally play this game for the honor, in my own terms, for my own fun, and "yes!", to answer the initial question by OP:

Whether there is a higher payout or not, Yes, there is a point in my mind in playing this game in difficult settings.

I guess I have a different point of view from most of you youngsters.
I just can't be bothered doing something in easy mode just because I am not being rewarded, although I should be, when I insist on playing in the hardest settings.
CamPatUK
I was badly paraphrasing the comment after yours. @KJF stated and others (such as OP) have intimated:

""Fun is it's own reward" doesn't really cut it"

I just found that an interesting take in the body of evidence that is this forum.
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I agree with you that: fun is its own reward. Wholeheartedly.

But when the monetary system in GT7 is so broken, then the above just doesn't cut it...

Context, guys, context.

I should be about to play GT7 for fun, regardless of the difficulty levels, not having to grind...
Grinding is painful and takes the fun out of this game...

I agree with the "trying to collect cars" aspect of this game, but they are making this impossibly hard for people who have actual lives to have fun, making progressing slow and boring...
 
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I understand the context. Every incentive is a disincentive (carrot stick are basically the same thing if the carrot is essential) so would you penalise those who prefer to play manual or use ASM? I know the answer is yes because you have said so but I would answer differently and I don't think we'll ever convince the other on this.

Also, saying this is your opinion 'in context' does that mean if rewards were more liberal you'd have a different opinion? If they add this then 'fix' the economy would you side with me that it should be removed again?
 
Magog
The AI absolutely don't use racing softs all the time. You can see what they use when they pit. Racing hards are their go to tires in most cases. In lower races sports hard I think but it's harder to tell.
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I have discovered that, for the first time in my GT experience, that all AI cars now do not use the same tires as other cars. Before GT7, AI cars within Gr. # races always seemed to use RH. In N#00 races, I saw pre-GT7 AI cars equipped only with SH tires.

Watching a few GT7 replays, I noticed some #RoadCar AI cars using comfort tires & some sports tires. I am curious whether the determinant is based on the particular model of car, on the racing event or just chosen randomly.
 
CamPatUK
I understand the context. Every incentive is a disincentive (carrot stick are basically the same thing if the carrot is essential) so would you penalise those who prefer to play manual or use ASM? I know the answer is yes because you have said so but I would answer differently and I don't think we'll ever convince the other on this.

Also, saying this is your opinion 'in context' does that mean if rewards were more liberal you'd have a different opinion? If they add this then 'fix' the economy would you side with me that it should be removed again?
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I apologize I still don't understand what you mean with "every incentive is a disincentive".

I am trying my best to think but I am a bit slow now.
If you could please explain, it would be appreciated.

You ask if I would penalize those who play in manual or use ASM... (What is ASM? Sorry I am slow again).
But I would answer: no, because driving in manual is already difficult enough compared to those who play auto..., (But in the right hands, a manual is faster than an auto.)

If the reward was very liberal (opposite situation), to the point where people driving full manual hardest settings have an unfair advantage over those who play in easy settings, then yes i would say, my stand would change because of context.

Risk vs reward must be Balanced for all. Not unfairly favorable for one group over another.
 
CTznOfTime
I apologize I still don't understand what you mean with "every incentive is a disincentive".

I am trying my best to think but I am a bit slow now.
If you could please explain, it would be appreciated.

You ask if I would penalize those who play in manual or use ASM... (What is ASM? Sorry I am slow again).
But I would answer: no, because driving in manual is already difficult enough compared to those who play auto..., (But in the right hands, a manual is faster than an auto.)

If the reward was very liberal (opposite situation), to the point where people driving full manual hardest settings have an unfair advantage over those who play in easy settings, then yes i would say, my stand would change because of context.

Risk vs reward must be Balanced for all. Not unfairly favorable for one group over another.
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Every incentive to perform X rather than Y is a disincentive to perform Y rather than X. If we are truly saying that people should play the way they want then why should Y be disincentivised?

And yeah, I meant to put Auto not Manual since it is treated as an assist much like ASM is.

We'll never agree on this because of the simple fact that you see this as risk vs reward whereas I see this as a simple preference for how you optimise your fun and enjoyment from the game. So no, risk vs reward does not need to be balanced for all. Especially in a primarily single player game.

I got a genuine moment of happiness when I saw that the rewards were identical across all difficulties and yet I went straight to the hardest and have not looked back.

For what it's worth, I respect your opinion while disagreeing with many of your supporting statements.
 
CamPatUK
Every incentive to perform X rather than Y is a disincentive to perform Y rather than X. If we are truly saying that people should play the way they want then why should Y be disincentivised?

And yeah, I meant to put Auto not Manual since it is treated as an assist much like ASM is.

We'll never agree on this because of the simple fact that you see this as risk vs reward whereas I see this as a simple preference for how you optimise your fun and enjoyment from the game. So no, risk vs reward does not need to be balanced for all. Especially in a primarily single player game.

I got a genuine moment of happiness when I saw that the rewards were identical across all difficulties and yet I went straight to the hardest and have not looked back.

For what it's worth, I respect your opinion while disagreeing with many of your supporting statements.
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My risk vs reward perspective is only true because of need for grinding in GT7.

Without the need for grinding, I would take the stand that no extra reward is needed for the chosen difficulty level, as it already is right now.

Sadly right now I feel penalized because of the way I choose to play in this grinding context.
 
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CamPatUK
I was badly paraphrasing the comment after yours. @KJF stated and others (such as OP) have intimated:

""Fun is it's own reward" doesn't really cut it"

I just found that an interesting take in the body of evidence that is this forum.
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Err. I mean I was replying to somebody who was unoquivocally stating that games should not tie rewards to difficulty.

Fun can be it's own reward and often is, I've never stated otherwise, it just isn't a legitimate response in this case.
 
CTznOfTime
This is a prime example/case of "playing in the path of least resistance...

Personally I can't do it. I can see why some of you do it...
But turning everything to easy mode is just so boring to me, the game not being challenging is no fun in my eyes...

Rhetorically, I ask "why even bother playing?" ...
In this and from my perspective, I dont even understand why you bother wasting your time playing in easy cruising mode... There is no reward in playing that way.
Having said that I know why you do it...
You guys do it because you just want to get through the game and say that you done it and finish it and be able to claim you finish the game first before anyone else...
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I put it on Easy because the Cafe events are boring. I just wanted everything unlocked. Now that I've finished that mind numbing Cafe menu the real fun can begin. Mostly I'll race in Sport mode online, which makes "Hard AI" look like Sesame Street. That's where the real challenge and fun lies. But if I don't want to race online then the red chilli races are acceptable, and the AI much more capable than in the Cafe races (with the added bonus of proper grid, or close rolling starts).

I was super glad that Easy mode paid out the same, it allowed me to skip past the bore fest without losing coin in the process. Note; I did start on Hard, but by like menu 10 or so I was getting so bored I switched to Easy.
 
I did the whole book on hard and no it has no point in it. You have to be always OP to catch the leader and that has nothing to do with racing+ if you are overtaking and crossing the driving line of the cpu(no it's not AI) you will be rammed as they will keep their line...
 
Harder difficulties should reward players at least slightly better. Something. Anything. If a player gets enjoyment out of playing on Easy then that's their choice but they should not come and complain that they only received 30,000 Cr. for winning first place in an event whereas someone playing on Hard received 40,000. I hate the 'git gud' internet slang and I'd never use it, but incentivizing higher difficulty challenges for bigger rewards is not a bad thing. It might make some players step out of their little comfort zone and try to get better at racing. I don't see that as a negative.
 
The problem with the economy it doesn't incentivize the players to try the harder events, why spend 20 minutes on a four chili race to earn 75,000cr, where you'll likely loose clean race bonus on turn 1 or do a easy race on Blue Moon Bay in the Pan-American event earning 52,500cr with clean race bonus every 5 minutes, where you'll likely earn 210,000cr for the same time spent doing the harder event. It like this in a lot of areas in the game, in the mission events, Moby Dick 30 lap in the wet at Tskuba earn only 5000cr.

The game should have a set formula, but doesn't appear to, that might be able to be measured per mi/km that pays out based on car class, AI difficulty, weather event, fixed PP event.

With a lot a cars in the Legends garage costing millions of credit, players look for events that make the best use of there time towards building credits, thus grinding on certain tracks. If PD doesn't want this, then make the harder events worth the time.
 
CTznOfTime
My risk vs reward perspective is only true because of need for grinding in GT7.

Without the need for grinding, I would take the stand that no extra reward is needed for the chosen difficulty level, as it already is right now.

Sadly right now I feel penalized because of the way I choose to play in this grinding context.
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That last sentence sums up the GT7 experience for me perfectly.

There is not a single aspect of GT7 that encourages players out of their comfort zone or to up the difficulty in any way, it seems it actually encourages the opposite because of the economy.

When i first played GT sport i was forced into using cone markers because the game didnt offer my previously preferred method of using a braking line. I didnt like the idea of this at the start but got used to it very quickly. I ended up very glad that PD forced me out of my comfort zone in the way it did.

Progress comes from being outside your comfort zone and like i said before i think the majority of players at all levels will end up taking the path of least resistance simply because the game allows it and it will be the fastest way to progress through the game but, GT being a sim racer should encourage improvement in players at least a little.
 
I wish PD could publish the numbers and put this to bed. I would be fascinated to see what difficulties were used for menu completion. Personally, and I am a very poor driver, I played on hard and anything else would have just bored me to the point I'd have stopped playing. I never had economy issues (not ones that would be solved by increasing pay out by some small margin) and I like that I can freely jump between auto and manual or even enable TCS.

Out of curiosity, since TCS can be toggled mid race, would you calculate the bonus pro-rata or just limit bonus based on strongest TCS used at any point?
 
regnar
The problem with the economy it doesn't incentivize the players to try the harder events, why spend 20 minutes on a four chili race to earn 75,000cr, where you'll likely loose clean race bonus on turn 1 or do a easy race on Blue Moon Bay in the Pan-American event earning 52,500cr with clean race bonus every 5 minutes, where you'll likely earn 210,000cr for the same time spent doing the harder event. It like this in a lot of areas in the game, in the mission events, Moby Dick 30 lap in the wet at Tskuba earn only 5000cr.

The game should have a set formula, but doesn't appear to, that might be able to be measured per mi/km that pays out based on car class, AI difficulty, weather event, fixed PP event.

With a lot a cars in the Legends garage costing millions of credit, players look for events that make the best use of there time towards building credits, thus grinding on certain tracks. If PD doesn't want this, then make the harder events worth the time.
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My fellow Floridian, you said it best.
Here's an example of this exact issue. Ferrari Challenge & WTC700 Event both pay exactly the same. However, Ferrari Challenge is half the laps, and does not feature Fuel & Tire Wear which is a turn off for more casual players. I did a few of the 10 Lap events with fuel & tire wear on some of the other courses, they can take an average of 20-25 mins to complete. The Ferrari Challenge takes about 10 mins more or less and is much easier. No need to pit, it's all road cars so they're bound to make some mistakes. Even on Hard difficulty, I get first place with a very slightly tuned F430 with RH.
Where's the balance that PD used as an excuse to nerf the payouts? Because I don't see any of it here. They specifically seemed to mention rewarding the player for the time and difficulty effort accordingly. These two events are nowhere near the same level of effort or difficulty. Love the game but this needs to be adjusted.
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I had found something, that the difficulty setting you make in the options does NOT negate the difficulty setting of 4 peppers in the mission races for example the latest batch of missions "the human comedy" the one hour endurance races are 4 peppers, I was set on easy and in the first one with the MX5 Touring Car @ Tsukuba, 600 PP limit, and was 15th in start, had to pit 12 or so laps for fuel, RH tyres, it rained for most of race, switched to Wets, and finished in 15th , overall I was lapped about 5 times.
Im not a bad racer but with tuned car I should do better than 15th.
I went after the race to check the options in case it was set back to default with the new 1.11 update and it wasn't but I noticed the small print in the difficulty setting, it said "Online and certain other races are excluded from this"
I guess my theory may be correct on the races that have "peppers" numbered and the difficulty rating you have is null and void for duration of that race.
 
I never saw any changes in difficulty between easy, normal and hard.
In rally, missions, whatever, no differences noticed.
 
I'm finding that GT7 is almost two different games at times, depending on what view you're using and whether you're using the controller or the wheel. Gauges view with a controller is great for conquering a race that you're having trouble with, and that crazy roof view with a controller makes the final S license much easier to accomplish, due to the fact that you can see all the dry and wet lines before you're upon them.
 
jrbabbitt
I had found something, that the difficulty setting you make in the options does NOT negate the difficulty setting of 4 peppers in the mission races for example the latest batch of missions "the human comedy" the one hour endurance races are 4 peppers, I was set on easy and in the first one with the MX5 Touring Car @ Tsukuba, 600 PP limit, and was 15th in start, had to pit 12 or so laps for fuel, RH tyres, it rained for most of race, switched to Wets, and finished in 15th , overall I was lapped about 5 times.
Im not a bad racer but with tuned car I should do better than 15th.
I went after the race to check the options in case it was set back to default with the new 1.11 update and it wasn't but I noticed the small print in the difficulty setting, it said "Online and certain other races are excluded from this"
I guess my theory may be correct on the races that have "peppers" numbered and the difficulty rating you have is null and void for duration of that race.
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My understanding is that red pepper races are their own difficulty yes, and changing it under settings had no effect. My assumption is that the AI are hand tuned for these races as they act quite differently to normal events or custom races. I think it was PD's way of improving the AI by programming the driving lines, cornering speeds, braking zones, etc... manually. It makes for good, challenging, racing tbh. Far better than the normal AI.
 
s0cks
My understanding is that red pepper races are their own difficulty yes, and changing it under settings had no effect. My assumption is that the AI are hand tuned for these races as they act quite differently to normal events or custom races. I think it was PD's way of improving the AI by programming the driving lines, cornering speeds, braking zones, etc... manually. It makes for good, challenging, racing tbh. Far better than the normal AI.
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I am having a weird situation with this right now, I had my difficult setting on 'Hard' for awhilel due to the Mission Challenges having a bug where the difficulties swapped around but I thought that was fixed so I switched it back to Easy in options.

Then tonight I tried to race Lemans 700PP with my Silvia Gr4 and couldn't do better than 3rd place as the Ai were always on my tail and lost places in the pit stops. Will try swapping difficulties again in the morning and see if things go back to normal but find it odd that suddenly the difficulty changed from what I am used to...
 
I'm not someone who runs gold laps, but I can high bronze consistently. This has been translating to AI hard with a high rpm turbo at WTC 800. I just realized I can tune for example the Supra gt500 97 to its BOP setting of 715 pp and get first on AI easy on wtc 800 by a similar margin. Then I can move up to normal as I improve lap times to silver range. So yes, difficulty should be able to extend the game for me.

Arcade mode may work differently. Missions as well.
 

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