Is understeer the direct opposite of oversteer(and viceversa)?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Fresh
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Originally posted by Fresh
Meaning that if you have excess oversteer the only way to correct it is to increase the understeer?


No, not entirely true. In other words, a FWD will never have Oversteer, so you cant correct its understeer other than doing a positive 0.5 front toe.


To increase over steer, put a -0.5 rear toe (Only works for RWD and AWD). To decrease oversteer put rear toe to 0.5


To incrrease front grip while turning, set front toe to 0.5 on all cars. It does take away from steering response and turn-in, however.
 
The 2 conditions are mutually exclusive, so technically no. But what you're really asking is if you can correct for one by changing settings that let it happen to settings that would induce the opposite. And the answer there is yes.

What 12 sec. said is true, but the working priciples are the same. A FF car can be made to not understeer by applying to it settings that would make a FR car oversteer. And although his instructions are correct (except the last one, which contradicts itself), don't take the actual numbers as gospel, do your own testing.

LSD and springs/dampers settings will also have big impact. Surprising the magnitude of the effex of toe angle adjusts, but don't neglect the others

No offense 12sec. but better grip while turning, and less steering response simultaneaously? Mebbe you phrased it wrong....
 
My problem is i can't get the car to turn enough, when i go into a turn it begins to turn until it reaches a limit and then i hear skidding and notice myself heading to the outside of the turn i think I am experiencing understeer but i am not sure. Also how much should i expect a car to be able to turn with tuning i don't wanna continually try to make the car turn better if it is impossible for any car in the game. I'm really more concerned about turning better than loosing traction because i feel that will be easier to correct later.
 
Originally posted by 12sec. Civic
No, not entirely true. In other words, a FWD will never have Oversteer, so you cant correct its understeer other than doing a positive 0.5 front toe.

To increase over steer, put a -0.5 rear toe (Only works for RWD and AWD). To decrease oversteer put rear toe to 0.5

To incrrease front grip while turning, set front toe to 0.5 on all cars. It does take away from steering response and turn-in, however.
Wow, Civic, easy there, big fella...

OK. Let's get basic.

Oversteer means the car rotates too far, and the back end slides out. This is what a NASCAR fan calls 'loose'. Oversteer will lead to a spin unless traction is regained, and the car will go off the inside of the turn. FWD cars CAN oversteer; they just more frequently understeer.

Understeer means that the car does not rotate enough, or what a NASCAR fan calls 'tight'. This is considered more stable because the car will not spin, though it may continue off the outside of the turn.

What you are saying, Fresh, is actually true. If the car understeers you need to dial in more oversteer to compensate, and vice versa. It's a slightly odd way of putting it, but true nonetheless.

In general, to combat understeer you want to decrease grip at the rear of the car, and increase it at the front. This is generally done by softening the front suspension a little, and stiffening the rear. To combat excessive oversteer, soften the rear a little and stiffen the front.

There is more to it than that, depending on whether the car is behaving this way under braking, acceleration, or both; but that's the basics. Hope this helps!

Edit: Also try braking earlier. I'm 60% of the way through the game, and I'm still learning this lesson. Ideally you want to do your initial turn in as you're coming off the brakes, and begin accelerating as the car rotates and heads toward the apex.
 
Understeer is when you are traveling at speeds like going into a corner and you turn the wheel and keep going straight ahead.

Oversteer for example. You're in your Toms Supra rated at over 1000hp and you go into a corner and floor it to come out. The rear wheels start spinning hard core and slide out from 'underneath you' so to speak. They pivot on the front wheels and you start heading sideways. Somtimes called braodsiding. Download one of the numerous Drifting videos on gtplanet.net to see examples of controlled oversteer.

There. Hope that clears it up a bit.
 
actually, loss of traction is harder to correct than turning. most cars in GT3 lose traction way more often than they have steering problems; and, if you get the traction cleared up, you've most likely solved your turning problem in the process.
 
I'd recommend slowing down sooner, too. I've been playing a year and still loose it in turns. All the tuning in the world won't help that. I know.

It's seems impossible but it's true: Slow down more before the turn . Your speed through the turn is nowhere near as important as your speed exiting the turn. Set it up like Neon said. You feel like your loosing time but your really shaving seconds off.

After that is learned, fine tuning will do a lot more good.
 
My lesson learned from studying the Licenses is that you should do roughly 80 percent of the braking on straight road, then 20 of it while in the turn
Doing so will increase the oversteer, therefore, taking away the understeer. However, if you experience oversteer, EASE OFF on the GAS and uhm..... Try to give the front less traction, this way, when the car turns, it'll take longer, and you won't turn too much :P
In other words, give the front LESS traction to correct OVERSTEER, and give the front MORE traction to correct UNDERSTEER
 
I'm aware of how to enter and exit the turns and I don't have that much trouble regaining traction but i wanted to be able to tune certain cars handling so that i can beat my friends when they have a great advantage and since their cars will have more power the only place to do it would be in the turns. I was also wondering if there are limitations to how well certains cars handling can be tuned for example can an r32's handling be equal to the vertigo race cars with tuning?
 
r32 and vertigo? are ya NUTS???
theres no way a vertigo can be outperformed by a r32 (IMO)
cuz the Vertigo literally has Weight/Power ratio of a F1 car
 
Originally posted by Fresh
...their cars will have more power the only place to do it would be in the turns.

...which implies that cars with more power are faster on the straights, which is not always true. proper gearing is key, though you cant beat a viper with ****ty gearing with a mini and excellent gearing on a straight. rally cars have short gearing (the gears run through quicker and run out faster) which means a lower top speed. power will only take you as far as the gears will.

i have a question though, it is optimal to have maximum traction at all times, just have it balanced? (ie. to reduce oversteer loosen up the front and tighten up the rear, but on super soft tires?)
 
Originally posted by cigano
No offense 12sec. but better grip while turning, and less steering response simultaneaously? Mebbe you phrased it wrong....

yes....

better grip will let u take the corner faster, but better steering response alows for quicker steering reaction times and sharper turning.... :)
 
Originally posted by mayorbill11
i have a question though, is it optimal to have maximum traction at all times, just have it balanced? (ie. to reduce oversteer loosen up the front and tighten up the rear, but on super soft tires?)
Yes. As long as you are using the same tires at both ends of the car, once dialed in properly the handling for the most part will stay balanced no matter what tires you put on the car.

Some people mix tires from one end to the other, but I usually don't like to. To me, radically uneven tire wear is indicating a suspension issue that needs to be corrected, rather than just covering it up by going to different tire compunds. There are certain exceptions like the C5R which chews up front tires like bubble gum.

Tire strategy is most efficient when you're getting good all around grip without excessive pit stops, and when the tires are wearing about equally. That makes the car drive consistently throughout the life of the tires; if one set wears much more quickly than the others, then the handling balance will change a lot as that happens, which is not good.
 
Originally posted by ving


yes....

better grip will let u take the corner faster, but better steering response alows for quicker steering reaction times and sharper turning.... :)

Ving again you don't disappoint. you just repeated the same contradiction with different words. do your posts have a point other thatn to argue emptily?

Steering response is a function of the car's suspension set-up and car's weight balance. Sharper turning is a function of the suspension geometry and steering mechanism's design. They all rely on the tires' grip to translate their movements to reactions against the road.

Toe in doesn't take away steering response, it causes it's own negation of it if it's too much in that it can overload the outside-rolling tire, and this overload can reach levels where it causes wheel-hop. That's why some gurus (real-life racing, not GT) are now advocating toe-out in order to make the front tires work together better. But this seem to work better only at high speeds, it's not a panacea, and it's still being researched.
Toe-in has been, and still is the conventional wisdom, for good reason, it's been proven to work. It stabilizes the car and makes the steering response predictable.
 
Originally posted by cigano


Ving again you don't disappoint. you just repeated the same contradiction with different words. do your posts have a point other thatn to argue emptily?

*yawn* :sleep:


dont go OT here Mr :lol:

what you seem to be talking about is definition and not the topic at hand :p
 
When the attemp is made to engage you in fruitful exchange, you back out. Why, don't you have something to offer? If you don't, please stay out of the flow, you're blocking it. Let 12sec. answer, I'm sure he'll do a better job.
 
ok, look i was not refering to toe or camber or any steering or suspension set up. to quote myself

quote:
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Originally posted by ving


yes....

better grip will let u take the corner faster, but better steering response alows for quicker steering reaction times and sharper turning....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was distinguishing the difference between grip and steering resopnse.... I dont even see the word toe there. Maybe you took ever 5th letter to make hidden words or something?

and to quote your own godly self:
"Steering response is a function of the car's suspension set-up and car's weight balance. Sharper turning is a function of the suspension geometry and steering mechanism's design. They all rely on the tires' grip to translate their movements to reactions against the road. "

you too seem to be on a sililar track to what I said in stating that grip and steering response are different things.

I am far from being some technical whiz but even I know the 2 differ.
 
btw

"When the attemp is made to engage you in fruitful exchange, you back out."

fruitful exchange my butt, all you did was try and start an argument.
the fact sir was that you didnt have your facts str8.

read post before u insult.

and again, dumbarse!
 
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