Israel - Palestine discussion thread

Hezbollah launching barrages rockets into Israel. I've read reports it may be meant to deplete iron dome munitions. Who the hell even knows anymore.
 
Iran launched drones towards Israel.

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unit-one
Iran launched drones towards Israel.

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Considering what they could launch, this seems more or less like the "attack" on the US airbase in 2020 - meant to appear serious but not lead to escalation. As it stands, I doubt any of those slow moving UAVs would make it beyond the border of Israel.

Flight traffic indicates US assets in Iraqi air space. I'm guessing recon planes or possibly fighters.
 
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They aren't even getting there. Coalition forces (Including USAF, RAF + Jordanian air force) have shot down over 100 drones in Iraq and Syria, supposedly.

Hypersonic missiles fired, apparently.

edit: Missiles making it to israel airspace...not sure if they are being intercepted or not.

 
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I mean, I'm not worried about Iran attacking the US because it couldn't, but I am worried that we're going to see a terrorist attack carried out now.

www.cnn.com

Iran's Revolutionary Guards warn US any act against Iran will see "reciprocal" response

Iran has launched a wave of strikes toward Israel in retaliation for last week's deadly Israeli strike on an Iranian embassy complex in Syria. Follow here for the latest live news updates.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

I really wish the US wasn't getting involved in this because it's a situation where Israel went up to the bigger kid in their class and punched him and now they're trying to hide behind their older brother. But it's all starting to feel like the kicking off of a new world war because if the US is occupied fighting Israel's war for them, it's going to leave the door open for Xinne the Pooh to attempt to take Taiwan. We're also not going to be able to give support to Ukraine, which will leave an opening for the new Soviets to attempt to move their half-assed invasion forward. North Korea is probably going to do something stupid to because no one is paying them any attention, although they'll probably just end up nuking themselves.

I get the US can probably handle all these fronts if they need to, but I'm going to be annoyed if we actually have to. It was nice that we had like 2 years of not being heavily involved in a conflict.

The whole world needs a goddamn Snickers bar.
 
Joey D
I mean, I'm not worried about Iran attacking the US because it couldn't, but I am worried that we're going to see a terrorist attack carried out now.

www.cnn.com

Iran's Revolutionary Guards warn US any act against Iran will see "reciprocal" response

Iran has launched a wave of strikes toward Israel in retaliation for last week's deadly Israeli strike on an Iranian embassy complex in Syria. Follow here for the latest live news updates.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

I really wish the US wasn't getting involved in this because it's a situation where Israel went up to the bigger kid in their class and punched him and now they're trying to hide behind their older brother. But it's all starting to feel like the kicking off of a new world war because if the US is occupied fighting Israel's war for them, it's going to leave the door open for Xinne the Pooh to attempt to take Taiwan. We're also not going to be able to give support to Ukraine, which will leave an opening for the new Soviets to attempt to move their half-assed invasion forward. North Korea is probably going to do something stupid to because no one is paying them any attention, although they'll probably just end up nuking themselves.

I get the US can probably handle all these fronts if they need to, but I'm going to be annoyed if we actually have to. It was nice that we had like 2 years of not being heavily involved in a conflict.

The whole world needs a goddamn Snickers bar.
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Very unlikely that Iran would do terrorist attack under Iran flag. Maybe their proxies, but that is more of a Sunni thing. I also don't think Iran will target USA directly in any capacity. Very likely they are praying to everything they can that this is the end of it.
 
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I can't believe I used to think the IDF was among the best militaries in the world. So you're fighting Hamas and Hezbollah, and then you just decide to assassinate an Iranian general? Plus, now that Iran has retaliated - albeit with seemingly minimal casualties/damage to Israel, thankfully - the IDF wants to return fire against Iran? Does the phrase "bitting off more than one can chew" not ring a bell?

Look, I believe in Israel's right to exist as a nation, but I also wonder if what's good for Palestine could also be good for Israel. At the least, I think we should withdraw a lot of support - or at least make it conditional - as long at Bibi's at the helm. Or maybe even any member of Likud.

If my first cousin once-removed is KIA from this SNAFU, I will never forgive Bibi for this, since he let Hamas exist and sent them money for his own political gain. If the IDF was the military I thought it was, they'd frag him and put his head on a stick.
 
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At the same time though, Iran attacking Israel is a huge Get Out Of Jail Free card for Netanyahu. The broader, global view has been starting to turn against him and the pressure was only going to get bigger but now he can get some mileage using Iran's attack to play the victim.
 
MIE1992
I can't believe I used to think the IDF was among the best militaries in the world. So you're fighting Hamas and Hezbollah, and then you just decide to assassinate an Iranian general? Plus, now that Iran has retaliated - albeit with seemingly minimal casualties/damage to Israel, thankfully - the IDF wants to return fire against Iran? Does the phrase "bitting off more than one can chew" not ring a bell?

Look, I believe in Israel's right to exist as a nation, but I also wonder if what's good for Palestine could also be good for Israel. At the least, I think we should withdraw a lot of support - or at least make it conditional - as long at Bibi's at the helm. Or maybe even any member of Likud.

If my first cousin once-removed is KIA from this SNAFU, I will never forgive Bibi for this, since he let Hamas exist and sent them money for his own political gain. If the IDF was the military I thought it was, they'd frag him and put his head on a stick.
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Ultimately, de-escalation si the best outcome, but Israels targeting of the Iranian general by itself, was not wrong. Irian have been attacking Israel and international shipping by proxy. The issue comes from doing it while he was in a consulate, and that has caused a stir.

I do get what you mean about your relative, and hopefully de-escalation is possible. If this continues to escalate, it will in all liklihood lead to World War II, you have russia and Ukraine going on, China are highly likely to invade Taiwan and Israel still have a lot of support and the moral high ground in this current conflict.
 
Liquid
At the same time though, Iran attacking Israel is a huge Get Out Of Jail Free card for Netanyahu. The broader, global view has been starting to turn against him and the pressure was only going to get bigger but now he can get some mileage using Iran's attack to play the victim.
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My understanding is that local Israeli sentiment isn't exactly behind the war in Gaza or Netayahu either. Israelis aren't stupid, they know what it's like to grow up and live under threat. They know that the war is just creating another generation of terrorists who will want revenge against Israel, and that if anything the whole thing makes them even less safe than they were before. He won't last politically as things stand now.

A real war solves a lot of problems for Netanyahu, and that's a massive red flag for everyone else.
Dave A
Ultimately, de-escalation si the best outcome, but Israels targeting of the Iranian general by itself, was not wrong. Irian have been attacking Israel and international shipping by proxy. The issue comes from doing it while he was in a consulate, and that has caused a stir.
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It's pretty wrong, for most reasonable military goals. Targeting senior officials like that means that you're making a diplomatic solution significantly harder, especially if you haven't made the strike in direct response to a major military action. If there's a proxy war going on, fight the proxies, make a deal with the proxies, bring in your own proxies, fight the supply chain, or make a deal with the powers behind the whole situation. But random targeted assassinations just destablises everything.

Which is exactly the point. Israel doesn't want a deal, they want to provoke Iran. They want a war, and that's pretty bad for the rest of the world.
 
Imari
It's pretty wrong, for most reasonable military goals. Targeting senior officials like that means that you're making a diplomatic solution significantly harder, especially if you haven't made the strike in direct response to a major military action. If there's a proxy war going on, fight the proxies, make a deal with the proxies, bring in your own proxies, fight the supply chain, or make a deal with the powers behind the whole situation. But random targeted assassinations just destablises everything.

Which is exactly the point. Israel doesn't want a deal, they want to provoke Iran. They want a war, and that's pretty bad for the rest of the world.
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Not withstanding the fact the US were assassinating members of al-quds as recently as 2020, he was still a opposing military target and fair game. One argument is Israel want to provoke Iran, sure, perhaps they did, but you can quite easilly argue Iran has been provoking Israel for some time so far via Hezbollah and others.

I don't disagree that escalation was expected from what Israel did, but they were well within their rights to go for Zahedi who has been a key figure in enabling Hezbollah in opposition to Israel.

You fight the proxies so far, at some point you are within your rights to go for the head, it doesn't seem to be as big an issue when other countries do it. The US would never have removed government in Afganistan if they only went after Bin Laden, but they chose to try to remove the thing that was enabling Al Quaeda and other groups in the area, albeit not successfully in the long run.

That said, if Israel refuse to contemplate a deal, they could find themselves out on a limb. I also am happy to acknowledge that doing what you are entitled to do and doing the right or smart thing aren't the same thing. I will argue Israel were well within thier rights to target Zahedi, but I also agree it wasn't the smartest move they could make.

None of this situation is nice and there are things both sides are doing that are preventing the situation from heading towards an end.
 
Dave A
Not withstanding the fact the US were assassinating members of al-quds as recently as 2020, he was still a opposing military target and fair game. One argument is Israel want to provoke Iran, sure, perhaps they did, but you can quite easilly argue Iran has been provoking Israel for some time so far via Hezbollah and others.

I don't disagree that escalation was expected from what Israel did, but they were well within their rights to go for Zahedi who has been a key figure in enabling Hezbollah in opposition to Israel.

You fight the proxies so far, at some point you are within your rights to go for the head, it doesn't seem to be as big an issue when other countries do it. The US would never have removed government in Afganistan if they only went after Bin Laden, but they chose to try to remove the thing that was enabling Al Quaeda and other groups in the area, albeit not successfully in the long run.

That said, if Israel refuse to contemplate a deal, they could find themselves out on a limb. I also am happy to acknowledge that doing what you are entitled to do and doing the right or smart thing aren't the same thing. I will argue Israel were well within thier rights to target Zahedi, but I also agree it wasn't the smartest move they could make.

None of this situation is nice and there are things both sides are doing that are preventing the situation from heading towards an end.
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They're within their rights as far as rights exist with such things, the idea of doing it by targeting a civilian/diplomatic building notwithstanding. The guy is military, he's a legitimate target when he's in the field.

I'm just saying it's stupid if your aim is to establish peaceful terms with Iran. Or anyone in the region, for that matter.

With regards to provocation, everyone in the area has been provoking everyone else for generations. Arguing about who started it is at this stage mostly pointless, and everyone has "justification" on some level for kicking off at everyone else. But the specific timing that Israel chose to do this is relevant.

Maybe they just happened to get information at that particular time and felt that they had an opportunity, but something smells off with the whole thing. No sensible Israeli commander risks open war with Iran while they're already running an occupation/invasion in Gaza just to pop an Iranian general in a consulate. It makes much more sense if you assume that there are ulterior motives to this.

IMO, Iran had been pretty generous in it's offer to not retaliate in return for a Gaza ceasefire. That was something that could have stopped the killing all around and got the politicians back to talking about actual long term solutions.
 
Thread that needle Biden...thread it.

There's a lot of illusions going on right now, including yesterday's attack IMO.

I believe there is only one party that wants a war right now...and that is Israel on the condition that the US lends its full support - which is ludicrous. There's not a chance Israel would have assassinated a general in a consulate building if it didn't expect to have the full backing of the USA against retaliation. At this point, Israel is hiding behind the red white and blue dome and it's starting to get old. Israel feels like they can escalate as much as they want against whoever they want because their big brother is the biggest dude in the neighborhood.

On Iran's side I think the Mullahs felt like they didn't have much of an option - either make a big show of "retaliation" or look totally impotent - not good for an already unpopular regime who's only actual internal supporters want to destroy Israel. But make no mistake, those dudes are terrified of a hot conflict breaking out, because they know they will lose. That in mind, I'm pretty certain this was a softball attack and I wouldn't be surprised if it was coordinated to some degree with the US to prevent any substantial damage. They basically waited until the US and other coalition forces had positioned all of their assets into a maximum defensive posture, something totally nonsensical unless you wanted everything to be shot down.

If Biden can get a truce/de-escalation out of this situation it will be some true statesmanship, and as usual, it's the Israelis that need to be talked off the ledge.
 
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A clearer picture is starting to emerge about the Iranian attack, and its largely what I suspected. Iran's response was meant to telegraph their ability to hit Israel rather than an actual attempt to do any damage - I mean it's kind of in the name True Promise. Also, Israel did not expect the strike in Damascus to piss of the Iranians as much as it did and did not give the US any warning (despite the US immediately understanding how much it would piss off the Iranians when they did learn it) before launching it. It's clear to me that the top Israel security chiefs are a little overconfident, verging on hubristic. Its hard to know what each side is trying to achieve here because they both seem to be inching towards a war that neither side wants.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
Iran's response was meant to telegraph their ability to hit Israel rather than an actual attempt to do any damage
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Kind of goes without saying, though. The real message is that Iran is emboldened enough to actually hit Israel, not that they have the ability to do it.

Eunos_Cosmo
Israel did not expect the strike in Damascus to piss of the Iranians as much as it did
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I would say 100% the opposite.

Eunos_Cosmo
the top Israel security chiefs are a little overconfident, verging on hubristic.
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Insert Nicolas Cage gif here.

Eunos_Cosmo
Its hard to know what each side is trying to achieve here because they both seem to be inching towards a war that neither side wants.
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Debatable. Iran would like nothing more than to see Israel wiped off the map, perhaps saving for the idea that they may desire to be the ones who do it. Israel arguably need to pivot away from the genocide they are horrifically perpetrating against the Gazan population, and focus on the people who actually want to annhilate Israel - which in Gaza is Hamas, but in the broader sense, it's Iran.
 
Touring Mars
I would say 100% the opposite.
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How so?

Touring Mars
Debatable. Iran would like nothing more than to see Israel wiped off the map, perhaps saving for the idea that they may desire to be the ones who do it. Israel arguably need to pivot away from the genocide they are horrifically perpetrating against the Gazan population, and focus on the people who actually want to annhilate Israel - which in Gaza is Hamas, but in the broader sense, it's Iran.
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The most Hawkish mullahs, perhaps but I don't think the sentiment is very strong with most Iranians. Israel would be better served by efforts to support Iranian opposition in Iran rather than engaging Iran militarily, which would be costly, likely unify ordinary Iranians against Israel, and very likely continue to erode their international standing. If/when the Islamic Republic falls I think Israel's relationship with Iran would probably trend towards resembling the relationship it has with Turkey - not amazing but also not at each other's throats and somewhat productive, although the situation with the Palestinians is going to be a challenge for Israel and normalizing relationships with any Muslim majority countries going forward.
 
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Eunos_Cosmo
Also, Israel did not expect the strike in Damascus to piss of the Iranians as much as it did and did not give the US any warning
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Arrogance of this magnitude should be punished. The USA should tell Israel they're on their own for behaviour like this.

You're ****ing things up for everyone.
 
Touring Mars
Debatable. Iran would like nothing more than to see Israel wiped off the map, perhaps saving for the idea that they may desire to be the ones who do it. Israel arguably need to pivot away from the genocide they are horrifically perpetrating against the Gazan population, and focus on the people who actually want to annhilate Israel - which in Gaza is Hamas, but in the broader sense, it's Iran.
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I think if Israel stopped committing genocide and actually worked with Palestine, then Iran would have way less of an issue with them.
 
Joey D
I think if Israel stopped committing genocide and actually worked with Palestine, then Iran would have way less of an issue with them.
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This is true to some extent, but Hamas and Iran are ideologically opposed to the existence of Israel and have figured out that the best way to beat Israel is to give them enough rope to hang themselves with - at the expense of the people of Gaza.

Iran doesn't give a **** about the Palestinians, neither does the current Israeli government. Hence why we are at where we are right now.
 
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Touring Mars
This is true to some extent, but Hamas and Iran are ideologically opposed to the existence of Israel and have figured out that the best way to beat Israel is to give them enough rope to hang themselves with - at the expense of the people of Gaza.

Iran doesn't give a **** about the Palestinians, neither does the current Israeli government. Hence why we are at where we are right now.
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The best solution is that we lock all the assholes on all sides in a big arena somewhere and watch them...well...they would probably just yell at each other. I highly doubt an ordinary Iranian and an ordinary Israeli would be as bitter enemies as their governments are - there is no intrinsic animosity which is demonstrated by the relatively good relations they had up until 1979. (Ordinary Palestinians are another story - the ones I've known do truly despise Israel at like a cellular level)
 
Eunos_Cosmo
The best solution is that we lock all the assholes on all sides in a big arena somewhere and watch them...well...they would probably just yell at each other. I highly doubt an ordinary Iranian and an ordinary Israeli would be as bitter enemies as their governments are - there is no intrinsic animosity which is demonstrated by the relatively good relations they had up until 1979. (Ordinary Palestinians are another story - the ones I've known do truly despise Israel at like a cellular level)
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To be fair, Israelis would yell at each other WITHOUT the Iranians present.
 
Do let me know if this isn't the right place, but I would like to share this letter than I've submitted to my local paper:

"The beginning of this May will mark two Jewish dates of importance. The first is Yom HaShoah, where Jews worldwide remember the industrial genocide of their ancestors conducted by Nazi Germany. Indeed, from my observations, the common motif of many Jewish stories - from Passover, to Purim, to the Shoah - seem to be rooted in gloomy pogroms. In contrast, I would like to mention the second date of importance, wherein upon the very start of May, we will begin not to mourn, but to celebrate, as Jewish-American Heritage Month begins. Proclaimed in 2006 by former President George W. Bush, we have an illustrious history in many fields, from film director Steven Spielberg, physicist Albert Einstein, escape artist Harry Houdini, actress Natalie Portman, and Van Halen frontman David Lee Roth. Not to mention our other contributions to other fields. For one example, the history of Jewish boxers is so vast, it's an uppercut to any stereotypes deeming Jews as nebbish. I would go as far enough to say that my personal homeland is nowhere within Israel - it is in the United States of America! Some politicians think that they can win us over through Israel-friendly foreign policy - but they couldn't be more wrong; Judaism is more than just Israel!"
 

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