I've been playing alot of BOTH GT 4 and FORZA...Life is good!

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Lisa_Bonami

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Folks,

I must say, that I am a bit in driving/racing heaven at this point...I just picked up Forza last week and have had GT4 for about 6 weeks now and I am enjoying both games immensely.

However, I am far from a driving physics expert ( hoping someone with real world racing experience chime in here ) but I have noticed that while both these games are very much authentic driving physics simulated oriented, they are also quite different in driving feel...even with the same cars. I was wondering how they could both be so authentic yet feel so different in terms of the handling and physics model in these games?

Like I said, I'm no expert on this matter but I do drive and I seemed to have some observations on the feel of both these games and would love it if someone else can chime in here to comment.

In GT 4, the cars seem to demonstrate a greater sensation of body roll and weight shift whereas Forza doesnt quite give me that same sensation.

However, what I do find realistic the more I play it, is the braking in Forza....there seems to be a much more realistic and varied usage of break locking and skidding at high speed stops which seem to replicate brake distance numbers for the different models

Also, I kind of am getting more used to the varied way the tires squeal and grab/regain and lose traction in Forza whereas in GT they seem very simplified.

One of the things Im not so sure about in Forza that GT seems to deliver better is the way once you start to lose control of your car and start to drift in a direction, Forza allows you to easily and maybe unrealistically repoint/recorrect your wheels to recover while GT seems to demonstrate more of a realistic uncontrollable weight transfer roll that correcting the wheel heading will not recover.

I love both these games and am glad I own both of them and would love to hear some feedback
 
Yeah, I noticed as well that it's way harder to control your car in Forza when full-out accellerating or braking. I was feeling very bold and certain of my driving skills and went for a time trial ride on Laguna Seca without driving aids in a Corvette racing car. Before the first hairpin turn the game already slapped me across the face and put me back in my place. These aspects feel more realistic than they do in GT4 (as far as someone without a driver's license can judge this). While cornering GT4 is more realistic though, in Forza the cars steer way too direct. It's like you aren't throwing around 1000+ kg of steel and plastic and I didn't notice much of any weight transfer to wheels.


After my first adventure without driving aids I pretty quickly turned them back on. One thing I DID like though, is that I shattered my friend's (who owns the x-box + forza) lap record on Nurburgring with the 2nd lap in the S-class Chrysler supercar. :D That was the 3rd lap I drove on Forza's Nürburgring, because before that I drove it with a Subaru Tommy Kaira Impreza or something? Which was better than his best time in that class as well... lol.
 
Smelly, Forza has most certainly grown on me the more I have been playing it. When I played it for the first time, I was like....aaaarrghh this is so much inferior to GT 4's handling but now it seems like they are almost equally strong in different areas of the physics and driving engines. In fact, Forza might actually have a few more variables of realism advantages over GT that a player must take into consideration when tuning their car.....I really feel that Forza punishes a player more who tries to push their car past the limits but GT 4's actual illusion of driving seems more real or fun because of the Hood cam which gives me a better sense of being in a car than the infamous 'magic carpet ride' cam in all of these racers today.
 
Yeah, I noticed you get penalized more in Forza for pushing the car to hard. It's more difficult to get your car back on track once you're off the tarmac, the grass seems to be a lot more bumpy as well. Also when you hit the grass or curbs with just one wheel it's more risky than in GT4.The added penalty time for going off track is also good, they should implement that in the next GT. It's a way better way for penalizing than the way GT does that in the Special Conditions hall.



Though I'm glad that I have GT4 now and not Forza, the direction in which the sequals will go will definitely play a role in my decission about which console I will buy next.
 
By the way, Nurburgring is way better the way it is implemented in GT4 now I think of it. Some turns in Forza definitely should have been more sharp to make them really stand out as being obviously harder. For example the Adenauer Forst turn (look at the pic which one it is: http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/satellite_pic_named.jpg) should have been much sharper, in real life it apparently is one of the most tricky turns on the track, in Forza you race past it like there hardly was any turn at all. Though I don't really get why GT4 starts the race at T13 instead of on the long straight, the long straight is where they usually start races. I guess they put it in the game the way it is now is because you enter the Nordschleife from that point when you're coming from the Formula 1 course.
 
I've been playing a lot of both GT4 and ENTHUSIA!!!!! I usually play Enthusia first and then when I switch, everything on GT seems sooo much easier overall, including the Mission hall! Both games are great, but I specially like the Nurb in Enthusia because I can practice over each separate section of the track + It looks dark cloudy like they way it usually is. I never get tired of improving my lap time on the E30 M3!!!!!






:D
 
I tried racing a corvette in Forza on Laguna Seca. I compared that to racing a corvette in GT4 on Laguna Seca. I live 1.5 hours away from Laguna Seca in RL. I own a corvette, and I've been on the RL track.

I found Forza's simulation to be much less than authentic. The car would do things that were totally impossible in RL. It clearly wasn't affected by weight transfer. And it had strange effects with making the car unstable under braking or acceleration. The RL car is not subject to these effects except when something is mechanically wrong (ie. the car will dart back and forth under braking when the brake rotors are warped).

The track itself is also not quite real. Turns aren't shaped quite like they are in RL. Features alongside the track just aren't quote in the right places, are missing, or exist where there is none.

GT4, on the other hand, was shockingly close to RL. The precision with which the Laguna Seca track has been recreated down to the last detail is downright eerie. It was pretty far off in GT3, but they totally redid this track for GT4. And the care they put into it really shows.

As for physics, GT4 is pretty authentic. It models handling and tire grip at very low speeds poorly... in RL, there is much more grip there. This is why 1st gear launches without the driving aids are pretty strange in GT4... you'd think.. why would manufacturers have such an aggressive 1st gear if it just spins the tires like crazy? You have to feather the throttle so much to keep them from spinning... even after they hook! In the real world, they don't spin the tires that easily. However, as soon as you get up any sort of speed, the simulation works properly and the car feels like it should.

Other than that, I'm pretty hard pressed to find anything in GT4's physical simulation which is broken. Most any complaint I would have about the game concerns the menu designs and the format of the career mode and niggly things like having to individually turn off the driving aids on every car you buy... and having to wait several seconds for every menu item you select... basically, all the stuff you do while you're not in the driver's seat is pretty well inferior to other driving games including Forza.

Oh, and the engine sounds in GT4 are about as inaccurate and nonauthentic as it comes. Especially for the Corvettes! Soundwise, Forza is much more authentic hands down!


Of course, none of this says anything about how _fun_ a game is. Forza has a lot of elements that GT4 does not in terms of making the game fun. It may be considerably less realistic, but I doubt that will quell its sales. Especially when most players would never be able to tell the difference anyway. Most players just assume that harder = more realistic.

- Skant
 
Actually, I agree with some of what yo usaid...I much prefer the way Forza handles braking and the distances that the car will roll/slide when they start to lock.....altho, Im no pro, it just feels more real.

Its so hard to just sit down and play one because they both offer so much for me to enjoy...that I usually find myself flipping back and forth. but to be completely honest, this past week, for some reason, i have been exclusively playing and tweaking cars in Forza
 
skant
Oh, and the engine sounds in GT4 are about as inaccurate and nonauthentic as it comes. Especially for the Corvettes! Soundwise, Forza is much more authentic hands down!
Click to expand...
i dont think the sounds in either are that great, i was in a Audi A4 racing last night with nothing buy tyre and body kit and the noise was huge, in RL there wisper quiet...
alot of the sounds in both are very generic through the games.
they both have good bit's and bad.. i still like when you hit the tyres in forza (yet annoys me haha), in GT4 there solid as a rock.

if only both the makers could come together and design a game that incorporated the good bit's from both games.....
 
I agree both games have some greats and poors.....However, I would love for BOTH these games next year to incorporate an in car dashboard/cockpit cam to really immerse the driver and make them feel as if they are actually driving inside a car rather than taking a low altittude magic carpet ride with Alladin
 
cant play both games at once. iv had to rethink a lot of my tsukuba style for forza, as for realism id have to give it to gt4 because of the sence of weight the cars have. although forza is currently taking up vast quantities of my sobre life :crazy:
 
I really like the driving line that changes colors with your speed in forza, it makes pretty much any track I don't know at all easily possible to drive.
 
I bought Enthusia and at first I was like "wow sweet!" and now I'm like "uh, ok". Graphically it seems to be on par with GT4 if not have better res stages. Music isn't as good mainly because there's no good racing tunes by real artists...menu music is better however. Sounds effects are much better than GT4...but still not very realistic (it's not hard to do--companies must be lazy). The game's modes are fantastic! But, frustrating as they refuse to allow me to use the controller's digital pad...I HATE analog sticks. Photomode is GT4's only appeal to me now. Enthusia has much much better physics...but the AI is the same...which is crappy. All in all at the end of the day I went back playing Mario Kart for the SNES and we (as in everyone at the Memorial Weekend party) usually do. At least the Gran Turismo series has 2 very good competitors...that being Forza and Enthusia. Konami did a fantastic job on Enthusia for it's first official "simulator" game...the game is seemingly bug-free when compaired to GT4 AND the game seems to just be put together better with finer fit and finish on the menus and such. Having said all of the above at the end of the day I went back to Mario Kart. 👎
 
Nice info.

Skant
I tried racing a corvette in Forza on Laguna Seca. I compared that to racing a corvette in GT4 on Laguna Seca. I live 1.5 hours away from Laguna Seca in RL. I own a corvette, and I've been on the RL track.

I found Forza's simulation to be much less than authentic. The car would do things that were totally impossible in RL. It clearly wasn't affected by weight transfer. And it had strange effects with making the car unstable under braking or acceleration. The RL car is not subject to these effects except when something is mechanically wrong (ie. the car will dart back and forth under braking when the brake rotors are warped).

The track itself is also not quite real. Turns aren't shaped quite like they are in RL. Features alongside the track just aren't quote in the right places, are missing, or exist where there is none.

GT4, on the other hand, was shockingly close to RL. The precision with which the Laguna Seca track has been recreated down to the last detail is downright eerie. It was pretty far off in GT3, but they totally redid this track for GT4. And the care they put into it really shows.

As for physics, GT4 is pretty authentic. It models handling and tire grip at very low speeds poorly... in RL, there is much more grip there. This is why 1st gear launches without the driving aids are pretty strange in GT4... you'd think.. why would manufacturers have such an aggressive 1st gear if it just spins the tires like crazy? You have to feather the throttle so much to keep them from spinning... even after they hook! In the real world, they don't spin the tires that easily. However, as soon as you get up any sort of speed, the simulation works properly and the car feels like it should.

Other than that, I'm pretty hard pressed to find anything in GT4's physical simulation which is broken. Most any complaint I would have about the game concerns the menu designs and the format of the career mode and niggly things like having to individually turn off the driving aids on every car you buy... and having to wait several seconds for every menu item you select... basically, all the stuff you do while you're not in the driver's seat is pretty well inferior to other driving games including Forza.

Oh, and the engine sounds in GT4 are about as inaccurate and nonauthentic as it comes. Especially for the Corvettes! Soundwise, Forza is much more authentic hands down!


Of course, none of this says anything about how _fun_ a game is. Forza has a lot of elements that GT4 does not in terms of making the game fun. It may be considerably less realistic, but I doubt that will quell its sales. Especially when most players would never be able to tell the difference anyway. Most players just assume that harder = more realistic.

- Skant
Click to expand...
 
Skant
I tried racing a corvette in Forza on Laguna Seca. I compared that to racing a corvette in GT4 on Laguna Seca. I've been on the RL track.
The track itself is also not quite real.
GT4, on the other hand, was shockingly close to RL. The precision with which the Laguna Seca track has been recreated down to the last detail is downright eerie. It was pretty far off in GT3, but they totally redid this track for GT4.

- Skant
Click to expand...
What about the addon track for GTR??? Is it close to the RL track???

JCE3000GT
Sounds effects are much better than GT4...but still not very realistic (it's not hard to do--companies must be lazy)
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They are not lazy. Why would PD implement Dolby Prologic II, 5.1 surround sound if they are lazy.
You have to remember that the PS2 is very old.
It can't render the sounds like a high end PC sound card.
PD recreated the sounds by recording real car sounds but like I said,
the PS2 is way too old to render the sounds accurately.
Wait untill the PS3 comes out to get real accurate car sounds.
 
kikie
What about the addon track for GTR??? Is it close to the RL track???


They are not lazy. Why would PD implement Dolby Prologic II, 5.1 surround sound if they are lazy.
You have to remember that the PS2 is very old.
It can't render the sounds like a high end PC sound card.
PD recreated the sounds by recording real car sounds but like I said,
the PS2 is way too old to render the sounds accurately.
Wait untill the PS3 comes out to get real accurate car sounds.
Click to expand...

Uhh...no. Even the PS1 can use real sound effects--and play them back with ease. Sound effects can and are stored in XA audio format in alot of games that can be played back by even the PS1. Along with many other sound formats. And since the PS2 uses DVD discs--space is not an issue...PD and other racing game creating companies just don't seem to actually care about quality audio in terms of sound effects. I believe the PS2, XBOX, and GameCube have better hardware then what the public AND game companies gives them credit for...if the companies would spend more R&D time they could easily squeeze more out of the systems rather than just making more systems to aid in thier laziness. And yes, game companies ARE lazy...why else would they release buggy and half chopped up software instead of taking more time to fix it...*cough*GT4*cough*. It's about money and not quality.
 
JCE3000GT
Uhh...no. Even the PS1 can use real sound effects--and play them back with ease. Sound effects can and are stored in XA audio format in alot of games that can be played back by even the PS1. Along with many other sound formats. And since the PS2 uses DVD discs--space is not an issue...PD and other racing game creating companies just don't seem to actually care about quality audio in terms of sound effects. I believe the PS2, XBOX, and GameCube have better hardware then what the public AND game companies gives them credit for...if the companies would spend more R&D time they could easily squeeze more out of the systems rather than just making more systems to aid in thier laziness. And yes, game companies ARE lazy...why else would they release buggy and half chopped up software instead of taking more time to fix it...*cough*GT4*cough*. It's about money and not quality.
Click to expand...

GT4's "buggy and half chopped up"?

I don't see it...
 
Not buggy as in errors, but the gameplay could have been made better and the challenge should have been finetuned more. Not really buggy, but some more should have been put in the "game" aspect, not just the tuning and driving.
 
bmw5150
I've been playing a lot of both GT4 and ENTHUSIA!!!!! I usually play Enthusia first and then when I switch, everything on GT seems sooo much easier overall, including the Mission hall! Both games are great, but I specially like the Nurb in Enthusia because I can practice over each separate section of the track + It looks dark cloudy like they way it usually is. I never get tired of improving my lap time on the E30 M3!!!!!
Click to expand...


I've been thinking about getting Enthusia, how do you like it?
 
Besides Forza, what about Enthusia... many were saying that is was going to be much more better than GT4. Any from here have any opions about that statement?
Cuz right now i think GT4 is just awesome and i just can't see some other fools trying to copy GT4 and make it better there way. Gran Turismo...Always and Forever! 👍 👍
 
Enthusia has a Chevy Astro van? Excellent! Any idea if the physics allow cars to flip over realistically (unlike in GT)? I was in Las Vegas with some friends once and we rented an Astro van, and the person driving was used to driving a Civic, so she went around the corners fairly quickly and I remember feeling like we were almost about to flip over but we never did.
 
I got enthusia on sunday and i dont really know wot to think about it, i mean it has a whiff of arcade about the menus but the handling is very hard at first and it seems like it could be more realistic than gt4 but i wouldnt know because i cant drive. anyone played it? realistic?
 
I hate xbox, never played it so I sold it two months ago. Im only ever playing play station. Im a gt4 fan i reserved it a year and a half early, and I went out and bought an xbox to get forza just forza.

FORZA OWNS GT4 in most ways
 
KTP
GT4's "buggy and half chopped up"?

I don't see it...
Click to expand...

2 things: Leaving in Online/LAN Play (but not completing it) and Memory Card erasing. I'm sorry, that kind of **** should not have ended up in the final product. So yes, buggy and half chopped up. 👍
 
Most players just assume that harder = more realistic.
Click to expand...

I think that's a nice observation. Most people who've never driven on race tracks assume that's it's very difficult. They watch on-board videos of drivers "flicking" the steering wheel and think that you have to wrestle fast cars to control them. All of this isn't true, and actually most racing spec cars are even easier to drive than road cars...you just have to get used to the speed, forces, and noise.

I haven't played Forza yet, but I have a copy of GT4 and Enthusia.

Enthusia's driving is very much on the "arcade" side of the spectrum. For those who think drifting = realistic, then this game might be good for you (but then again you might think Mario Kart is realsitc :) )

GT4 does a fairly good job simulating RL driving, but still lacks the "feel" in certain areas like braking. Other areas should be more pronounced and some toned down, but you can experience everything in the game. Overal though, they do a good job of simulating the movements you would feel on a track in a race car or road car.
 

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