Jaggies

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There's a lot of people talking about jaggies. Some say it looks perfect, others admit it's all 🤬 by jaggies. I see them and it hurts my eyes.

What do you say.
 
There's a lot of people talking about jaggies. Some say it looks perfect, others admit it's all 🤬 by jaggies. I see them and it hurts my eyes.

What do you say.

I was expecting jaggies, so am not disappointed.. But on my system (50" Plasma running 720P) its a 'jagfest'.

Its most noticable on the cars where they have 'highlights' (which is basically a whilte line) around the trim....

I am not really bothered by it.. Its just a side effect of having so many 'straight lines' in a game..

Jon
 
If you want to get rid of as many jaggies as possible, play the game in their native resolution (1080p in this case).
 
First of all, the game is using Anti Aliasing.
Structures around the circuit are all jaggy free. Even the car shapes are free of any jaggies. The electricity cables in the Eiger level are also free of any jaggies, even though that such very thin objects always tent to have jaggies.
Second, grass and other very small details are alpha blended, this means they're smooth and flicker free. Games like the old Far Cry are full of such flickering environment.
Third, the texture filter is high quality, top level, no flickering. They(PD) now implemented even a higher glare effect to the tarmec and still the texture filter can handle this.

Those jaggies, many people are reffering to are caused by two side effects.

Jaggy self shadows: those shadows don't have any jaggies because they are not modeled with 3D polygonal shadowing as seen in games like Doom3 or Prey. Such technique would enable Anti Aliasing for the this shadows aswell. Later on, such shadows need to be smoothed(soft shadows) or otherwise you will get razor sharp shadows. The drop shadow is indeed done with 3D polygonal shadows, and therefore very sharp. So, they are using a different, more old school self shadowing effect which is somehow smooth but seems to be aliased aswell.
In the new level, the high speed course, you can see that this new level is able to smooth out those, OK, let's say jagged self shadows, BUT only in this new level. The others still suffer from 'jaggie shadows'.

And for the other 'jaggies', seen on cutlines and thin spoilers on those cars:
They are not caused by a bad AA but rather a mixture of two reasons:
a not that high quality specular map - I suppose that the specular maps are compressed -
and very, very, ultra thin details, where even the best AA level canot smooth out all jaggies.
Just compare GT5P with the very first release, GT5 HD: The car was much closer to the camera, and therefore less jaggies around such details, because those details were 'bigger' aswell/closer to the eye

Games, that don't suffer from such side effects of great graphics, are for example Sega Rally Revo. Same AA level, but not so much car details and the specular and bump maps are not so compressed. Cutlines are done a bit different in this game

What really strikes me is, that this game, in my opinion, is indeed jaggie free, while many others complain about jaggies. Games that don't use AA, like VF5 or UT3 really have issues with Jaggies. Maybe you should compare GT5P with such games and see the difference. I own all three games.
And yes, I have to say, that the game does look like in those PR screenshots, (except those jaggies around spoilers and cut lines and shadows but just a little :sly: )

Oh, and by the, PD officially announced AA shortly after they said it couldn't be done along with HDRr. (Oh snap... it works)
 
Turn sharpening on your TV totally OFF and then you can judge about jaggies.
 
I set my PS3 up to run at 720p then 1080i then 1080p and took a referanze jaggie in the game namley a shadow accross the steering wheel in the capachino. 720 definatly was the most obvious where the 2 1080 reserloutions were prety good at getting rid, also on some of the cars in "my home page" suffer a little. if you have a 720p HDTV and it's buging the hell out of you try upping it to 1080i most 720p TVs can accept this setting, it will smooth things out considerabley for you. I have to say though it's not a huge issue and it's just the ocasonal item which produces jaggies rather than them being everywhere, there most notacible with the in car view.
 
X2 for Hereward,

I have a 22' Samsung with DVI, plugged in the PS3. I play at 720P, which is 1280x720, and I see that I miss FSAA a lot! The monitor stands for 1080i, and its ok. Both resolutions are, I just see minor effects.

And that shadow on my Integra steering whell...
 
Yeah I noticed these jaggies. I have two TV's, one 720p and the other is a 42"1080p. On the 720p TV the cars look almost the same as FORZA2 cars, meaning they look good but suffer from huge jaggies. However on my 1080p TV it's all smooth.

So people are right, to get rid of jaggies you have to play at the games native resolution.
 
The japanese version had lots of jaggies fro me but the update improved that a bit. Now I have the pal version and I see hardly any jaggies. The game looks a lot smoother to me.
 
if you aint got a 1080p TV (not many of us do) then try 1080i it'll make a big difference to the jaggies and most 720p HDTV's can cope easily with 1080i just channge the setting in the XMB under display, don't use automatic use custom and select 1080i from the list, if the screen goes completly black don't press anything this is a test and it will turn back after 30 seconds!
 
I only have a problem with the shadows being jaggy.
I have sharpness in my screen set to max, but i tried putting it on zero.
It didn't make any difference at all for the shadows, and i would lose a lot of details.
 
Just to get it right. When you all are talking about jaggies then you are refering to those jaggies around cutlines and thin spoilers aswell as jaggie self shadows or do you see any jaggies elsewhere in the game?

Oh, and by the way, AA doesn't mean that it totally wipeouts all jaggies forever. It just reduces them to a minimum! just in case
 
The jaggies have improved a bit after the update. I have to concerntrate hard to see any at all while I'm racing in cockpit view now (except the shadows). But in the replays you see them a bit, and you see them a lot in the garage/dealership.

I'm not complaining though. GT4 was terrible with them.
 
I've had the Japanese version & the PAL version and used both on a samsung 32" lcd and a panasonic 50" plasma. Both running at 1080i, the samsung showed 95% no jaggies in the pal version, whereas it was probably around 75% on the Japanese version. On the panasonic tv jaggies were not around at about 75% of the time on the Japanese version and only slightly improved in the pal version. So it is vastly improved depending on the tv you have. I will have a 40" 1080p samsung to test on in a fortnight so will see if the jaggies are even less then.
 
Overall, after all the screenshots and trailers, I have to say I'm a little disappointed with the graphics. Some backgrounds look quite unimpressive and I do find quite a lot of jaggies playing on a 80" 1080p projector screen. I'm not saying the game looks ugly, some parts look absolutely stunning, but I guess I was expecting near photorealism in all areas.
 
I think that could be why the jaggies are more noticable, some areas look photo realistic the others are not quite as good, you tend to notice the slight problems more because of how good it looks LOL Best looking racing game I've seen even with the ocasional jaggies, maybe the PS4 can go that extra mile LOL
 
Jeez, does anyone stop to take a look at the incredible, awe-inspiring detail of the cars (and tracks...and everything)? They have 200,000 polygons for crying out loud! You can't expect them to be able to do EVERYTHING, much less in a non-final version. I think the game looks absolutely stunning on my Samsung 216BW monitor running 1080i. Sure, there are jaggies present, but nothing even close to putting a dent in the awesome detail.
 
Looks fantastic to be honest. 1080i on a 26" LG HDTV with hdmi. If it looks this good now I cant imagine what GT5 will look like.
 
I've had the Japanese version & the PAL version and used both on a samsung 32" lcd and a panasonic 50" plasma. Both running at 1080i, the samsung showed 95% no jaggies in the pal version, whereas it was probably around 75% on the Japanese version. On the panasonic tv jaggies were not around at about 75% of the time on the Japanese version and only slightly improved in the pal version. So it is vastly improved depending on the tv you have. I will have a 40" 1080p samsung to test on in a fortnight so will see if the jaggies are even less then.

So you guys are pointing out that despite the Japanese update, the PAL version still look slightly smoother? What about my tv set; I'm on a 1366 x 768(720p Bravia D series) which can accept 1080p signals but downscale them to my resolution. Should I use that or would 1080i work better for me?
 
So you guys are pointing out that despite the Japanese update, the PAL version still look slightly smoother? What about my tv set; I'm on a 1366 x 768(720p Bravia D series) which can accept 1080p signals but downscale them to my resolution. Should I use that or would 1080i work better for me?

There's no reason why 1080i would be better than 1080p, progressive signal has twice the amount of information, and your display will have to do an extra deinterlacing process with the interlaced material.
 
if you aint got a 1080p TV (not many of us do) then try 1080i it'll make a big difference to the jaggies and most 720p HDTV's can cope easily with 1080i just channge the setting in the XMB under display, don't use automatic use custom and select 1080i from the list, if the screen goes completly black don't press anything this is a test and it will turn back after 30 seconds!

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I 've got 720p TV and it supports 1080i and 1080p input signal.
And you know what? The game looks better (and less jagged as well) with 1080p (though it's scaled down to TV's 720p native resolution).
 
So you guys are pointing out that despite the Japanese update, the PAL version still look slightly smoother? What about my tv set; I'm on a 1366 x 768(720p Bravia D series) which can accept 1080p signals but downscale them to my resolution. Should I use that or would 1080i work better for me?

no i'm not. i'm comparing prior to spec 2 update japanese version vs spec 2 pal version. the results between spec 2 pal and spec 2 jpn should be the same I expect.
 
Did you notice that only those cars with a very glossy, high reflective metallic or pearl paint have issues with jaggies around those cutlines?
Cars equipped with low contrast colors (white) are far more smoother then those others. Well, that's for me the hint that not a possible missing AA is the reason for these jaggies but rather a low quality specular map or low quality specular filtering.
For example, those cars in Sega Rally Revo don't have such a ultra bright and mega shiny color paints and thus, they don't suffer from such negative effects.
About those white outlines, some of you were talking about... :odd: your TV's contrast and sharpness level are set too high. I assume that it's above 50% of the overall levels. LCD TVs always are set to a too high sharpness level factory wise so they shine when watching TV signals. It's an old trick.
Sharpness should be set from 30% to 40% and contrast between 80 and 90 but not higher or you will get disturbing outlines which also strengthens jaggies.
Also, the red color will suffer from too high contrast levels, resulting in odd color behaviour around border lines... result is simple... jaggies!
Monster TVs for 5000 bugs and more don't have such trouble. Cheap models with low quality will fall down to their knees when playing such a HD masterpiece.

You see, it's not the poor quality of the Game but rather it's overwhelming performance. I am plaing the game in 720p, except those cutlines and some of the Home menu , I can't confirm any other real jaggies in the game.
 
Hmm. I find that I only get jaggies on cars that are white or bright yellow. I will try altering the sharpness and contrast, like you say.
 
Anyone else think kazuyam is a PD insider?? Along with that guy who knew everything about ray tracing? These people sound very informed on the subject........a little TOO informed. lol, you never know!
 
I was expecting jaggies, so am not disappointed.. But on my system (50" Plasma running 720P) its a 'jagfest'.

Its most noticable on the cars where they have 'highlights' (which is basically a whilte line) around the trim....

I am not really bothered by it.. Its just a side effect of having so many 'straight lines' in a game..

Jon

there are some issues but you need to lower down sharpness on your plasma... I have Panny 50" and it looks freaking awesome. Sure some issues, but looking gazillion times better than anything else on the market.
 
So (kazuyam), the shadows are dropped by the car 3D model, right? Then, all that the y have to do is apply soft shadows to it, but that consumes a lot of resources(I remember trying to play F.E.A.R. with that option on). Do you think it's possible for us to see soft shadows? Why some shadows' edges look like sand?
 
Can anyone tell me how jaggied the game looks on an ordinary tube tv?
 
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