Jon's SportKa type thread thing

[Jondot]

...and I've been here before.

But, I am now in a feasible position where I can actually test drive and/or purchase stuff because I've got one of those shiny license things. How lovely.



Requirements:

• Fairly modern (nothing older than about '98, I'd say)
• Price can be anything from £1500 to about £6000 (including insurance!)
• ...but logic dictates I don't spend too much. As I'll only go and crash, apparently. So less is better.
• Needs air con. Sorry, but it does. I'll actively pay more for it.
• Oh and the usual 'basic' toys (remote locking, 'leccie windows)
• Not an Auto, I'd sooner eat my cat than put up with one.
• Insurance is the name of the game. The cheaper the better. More than £1700 would be silly

The insurance quotes so far:


Alfa Romeo
156 1.6: £2,229

Audi
A2 1.4TDI SE: £2,152

Chevrolet
Matiz 0.8 SE: £1,731

Citroen
C1 Rhythym: £1,400
C4 VTR 1.6HDI: £1,730
Berlingo 1.6 Desire: £1,871
ZX 1.4 (1995): £1,593

Ford
Mondeo 2.0 Zetec: £2,173
Ka Luxury: £1,730
Ka Zetec Climate: £1,887
SportKa: £1,782
Fusion 1.4 +: £1,887


Hyundai
i10 1.2 Style: £1,731

Jaguar
X-Type 2.0: £4,627

Mazda
MX5 1.6 (2000): £3,752

Nissan
Micra Tekna 1.2: £1,700
Micra 'Sport' 1.2: £1,656

Peugeot
306 Meridian 1.6: £1,761

Renault
Renault Clio 1.2 Dynamique: £1,531
Renault Clio 1.5 DCI Campus: £1,582

Rover
45 2.0D GSi: £2,070

Skoda
Fabia 1.4TD: £1,730
Fabia 1.9TD: £1,869

Smart
ForTwo Pulse Cabrio: £1,725
ForFour 1.2 Passion: £1,976
ForFour CDI: £2,099

Toyota
Corolla 1.6: £1,887

Volvo
V40 1.9D: £2,069

VW
Beetle 1.4 Luna (for the hell of it): £1,920








Right, um... go?

 

[homeforsummer]

Yesssss this will be fun, because I can suggest something a little odd which everyone else will think is awful and you might even like it.

Of everything on your insurance list up there the A2 is my favourite by a country mile, but then the insurance looks faintly ridiculous and it's made of expensive aluminium so I wouldn't recommend it as a first car.

I'll go away and have a think. I'll return in a bit and suggest a few things that everyone will hate

 

[ExigeEvan]

6 grand on a first car? What a waste! You may not write it off, but you will do damage to it.

I'm personally going to take the Skoda route. Any chance of a post code (doesn't have to be yours, google a local attraction.)?

[Edit] It's rather closer to me than you, but this sort of thing...
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-u...cleYearOfManufacture=2005&vehicleRegLetter=05

 

[Jondot]

I'll go away and have a think. I'll return in a bit and suggest a few things that everyone will hate

I'll look forward to it


Yeah, I should mention that the insurance list is there simply because that's all the cars I've stuck into Confused.com in the past month or so, and I thought I might as well list them all. I'm not necessarily considering all of them (aside from the C4, C1, Micra etc).

6 grand on a first car? What a waste! You may not write it off, but you will do damage to it.

I'm personally going to take the Skoda route. Any chance of a post code (doesn't have to be yours, google a local attraction.)?

£6000 was top budget including insurance, should have mentioned that. I'll go edit.

PCWorld Canterbury's Postcode: CT1 1WZ

 

[Famine]

Left-field!

Alfa Romeo 156 1.6/1.8 TS (£2k on AutoTrader)
Volvo V40 1.9D (£2,250 on AutoTrader)

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Rover 45?

MB chassis Civic so long as it's not a VTi? (as the VTi will murder you on insurance )

Provided you hate those cars...

XJ? Oh wait, murder on insurance and impossible to park.

 

[Jondot]

Left-field!

Alfa Romeo 156 1.6/1.8 TS (£2k on AutoTrader)

Lovely, but £2,229 from Quinn Direct for the 1.6 Sportwagon.

Volvo V40 1.9D (£2,250 on AutoTrader)

£2,069 again from Quinn.



Both are much lower than I'd thought though.

Rover 45?

MB chassis Civic so long as it's not a VTi? (as the VTi will murder you on insurance )

Provided you hate those cars...

XJ? Oh wait, murder on insurance and impossible to park.

Tried a 2.0 Diesel 45 (the petrol engines have notorious head gasket issues) and it was £2,070.

 

[ExigeEvan]

What's the insurance on a Fabia 1.9TDi gonna be?

[EDIT]
Scratch that.
£4k Fabia 1.4TDi
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-u...cleYearOfManufacture=2005&vehicleRegLetter=54

 

[homeforsummer]

Righty...

All of these should have all the things you specified. Though they aren't necessarily in your vicinity, they're just ideas.

The Very Cheapies:

• Suzuki Baleno - Dirt cheap to buy, reliable, decent space, looks okay in a bland inoffensive sort of way, decent performance, reasonable insurance.
• Daewoo Lanos - Even cheaper to buy, decent space again, looks okay in a bland sort of way again, average performance, cheap insurance.

The slightly more expensive cheapies:

• Ford Fusion TDCi - Cheap to insure, all the toys, loads of space, pretty reliable in most respects, drive okay, bit more interesting than the equivalent Fiesta (IMO), economical.
• Smart ForFour CDI - Insurable, good space, manual gearbox unlike the ForTwo, good economy, looks funky.
• Daihatsu Sirion 1.3 - Maybe a little more expensive to insure but they're supposed to be good fun and very reliable. Perhaps not particularly relaxing - it's quite a revvy thing. But the same space/practicality virtues as the ForFour and Fusion.
• Skoda Fabia - I haven't linked to one because pretty much any one would fulfill your criteria, though personally I'd make mine a 1.9 TDI estate which is a nice chunky looking thing that'll do more than 60mpg on motorway trips and feel like a much bigger car.

I've probably got more but to be honest, some of the ones I was going to suggest have already been mentioned above!

 

[Rotary Junkie]

The Lanos is cheap for a reason, unfortunately. You'd probably be better off going with an older but well maintained car than it :/

 

[Keef]

Why do you include the price of insurance with the price of the car? Is it a one-time payment or something?

 

[Jondot]

Scratch that.
£4k Fabia 1.4TDi
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-u...cleYearOfManufacture=2005&vehicleRegLetter=54

Yes please! £1,730 for the 1.4. Although presumably that's the same engine Jezza had in the Roomster the other week.

Righty...

All of these should have all the things you specified. Though they aren't necessarily in your vicinity, they're just ideas.

The Very Cheapies:

• Suzuki Baleno - Dirt cheap to buy, reliable, decent space, looks okay in a bland inoffensive sort of way, decent performance, reasonable insurance.
• Daewoo Lanos - Even cheaper to buy, decent space again, looks okay in a bland sort of way again, average performance, cheap insurance.

I would honestly pay £6,000 not to drive either of those. Sorry

The slightly more expensive cheapies:

• Ford Fusion TDCi - Cheap to insure, all the toys, loads of space, pretty reliable in most respects, drive okay, bit more interesting than the equivalent Fiesta (IMO), economical.

Funily enough I've always quite fancied the Fusion in an odd sort of way. particularly in black with alloys...

Mmmm...

Quote for the one pictured (1.4 Fusion +, the only one I'd have): £1,887

• Smart ForFour CDI - Insurable, good space, manual gearbox unlike the ForTwo, good economy, looks funky.

I'd absolutely adore one of these. As you can see from the list, I've already tried the 1.1 petrol. That ebay one is about the only CDI in the world under £6,000 annoyingly. Quote: £2,099. Damn :/

• Daihatsu Sirion 1.3 - Maybe a little more expensive to insure but they're supposed to be good fun and very reliable. Perhaps not particularly relaxing - it's quite a revvy thing. But the same space/practicality virtues as the ForFour and Fusion.

Dear god no.

• Skoda Fabia - I haven't linked to one because pretty much any one would fulfill your criteria, though personally I'd make mine a 1.9 TDI estate which is a nice chunky looking thing that'll do more than 60mpg on motorway trips and feel like a much bigger car.

Done above £1,869 to insure a 1.9D.

Why do you include the price of insurance with the price of the car? Is it a one-time payment or something?

Kinda. Paying annually is a bit cheaper (as far as I'm aware), so I'd be paying £1700 up-front for a year's insurance whenever I buy the car.

 

[Famine]

Quinn Direct

Why Quinn? Were they the cheapest for both quotes on a comparison site or are you just using the one insurer/broker?

Run the cars through Confused.com if you haven't already. The Volvo at least should come in way under £1.7k. The Alfa... maybe not, but I did say it was left-field Plus I'm keeping my cars at half your budget to allow some leeway for insurance.

(and think of the honies - you drive an Alfa Romeo and you can fit 4 of them in it... Five if you're Peter Sutcliffe)

Also if I had the choice of:
£4k Skoda Fabia 1.4, £1.8k insurance (£5.8k total) or
£2.5k Alfa 156 1.8, £2.2k insurance (£4.7k total)

I know what I'd choose

Also also, Jaguar X-Type 2.0 (2003/52 on AutoTrader for £2,750)?

 

[Ingram]

Why do you include the price of insurance with the price of the car? Is it a one-time payment or something?

Because for somebody who just passed their driving test it is a huge cost, the £2000 ish being banded about as a quote is for the first year alone. My 1.2 Renault Clio was £1800 for the first year. Come to think of it, I would definitely reccomend a clio as a first car.

In fact, if mine had air con I'd offer you that

 

[homeforsummer]

I would honestly pay £6,000 not to drive either of those. Sorry

Hehe. Could it be possible that I actually like blander cars than you then?

Funily enough I've always quite fancied the Fusion in an odd sort of way. particularly in black with alloys...

The Fusion grew on me. I'd never have one myself but second hand it makes a lot more sense than it did brand new.

I'd absolutely adore one of these. As you can see from the list, I've already tried the 1.1 petrol. That ebay one is about the only CDI in the world under £6,000 annoyingly. Quote: £2,099. Damn :/

Ah, I didn't see you'd put a ForFour down, I thought you'd listed two ForTwos. My bad.

Dear god no.

This isn't going well is it? I mean... the 1.3 revs to 8k rpm and kicked the poo out of anything of a similar price when it was new (9 seconds to 60 for £10k? It was in a class of it's own). But I'll concede that it's not the prettiest of things.

I have an appreciation for Daihatsus because they're one of the few Japanese manufacturers that still ships their completely loopy stuff abroad. Cheap, interesting and fun small cars - a bit like the Japanese equivalent of Fiat.

(and think of the honies - you drive an Alfa Romeo and you can fit 4 of them in it... Five if you're Peter Sutcliffe)

Unless I'm much mistaken, Jon's not that interested in the honies

Oh, and I've just seen this:

6 grand on a first car? What a waste! You may not write it off, but you will do damage to it.

Whilst young drivers are statistically more likely to damage their car it doesn't mean that they will. I'm just guessing here but I don't really see Jon as the sort of driver who'd go around like a loony so he's probably safer than most. I managed to go my early years without damaging my car. If you aren't a knob it's perfectly possible.

EDIT, again:

Yes please! £1,730 for the 1.4. Although presumably that's the same engine Jezza had in the Roomster the other week.

Yes, it is. But ignore Clarkson, the VAG 1.4 3-cyl turbodiesel is a wonderful engine. It's the same one you'd find in the A2, the Arosa, the Lupo, the Polo etc etc. Ridiculously good economy and still has plenty of torque for such a tiny engine.

 

[Jondot]

Why Quinn? Were they the cheapest for both quotes on a comparison site or are you just using the one insurer/broker?

They were the cheapest. Albeit suspiciously.

Run the cars through Confused.com if you haven't already. The Volvo at least should come in way under £1.7k. The Alfa... maybe not, but I did say it was left-field Plus I'm keeping my cars at half your budget to allow some leeway for insurance.

Have done.

Also also, Jaguar X-Type 2.0 (2003/52 on AutoTrader for £2,750)?

I'm thinking probably no

 

[Famine]

Ouch.

Just out of curiousity, are you an experimental test pilot and bomb disposal expert with 11 points on your licence living in nuclear research facility in Sheerness? £1,700 insurance for a Matiz is one of the most obscene things I've ever heard.

Still, the Alfa is significantly under your budget limit, which affords you a little extra on your insurance. Gwan, you know it makes sense.


(oh, and Renault Clio as a first car is a reasonable idea - at least that way you haven't driven anything else to see how awful it is)

 

[homeforsummer]

(oh, and Renault Clio as a first car is a reasonable idea - at least that way you haven't driven anything else to see how awful it is)

I knew that was coming...

 

[Jondot]

Because for somebody who just passed their driving test it is a huge cost, the £2000 ish being banded about as a quote is for the first year alone. My 1.2 Renault Clio was £1800 for the first year. Come to think of it, I would definitely reccomend a clio as a first car.

In fact, if mine had air con I'd offer you that

I'll definitely be test driving a Clio. Although the gearbox looks sort of... evil. As does the clutch, which according to my friend has a biting point which 'moves around'.

This isn't going well is it? I mean... the 1.3 revs to 8k rpm and kicked the poo out of anything of a similar price when it was new (9 seconds to 60 for £10k? It was in a class of it's own). But I'll concede that it's not the prettiest of things.

Really? Wow, that's actually pretty cool. Although not my cup of tea I'm afraid. I'd rather have a nice low-revving diesel

Unless I'm much mistaken, Jon's not that interested in the honies

Got me there

Whilst young drivers are statistically more likely to damage their car it doesn't mean that they will. I'm just guessing here but I don't really see Jon as the sort of driver who'd go around like a loony so he's probably safer than most. I managed to go my early years without damaging my car. If you aren't a knob it's perfectly possible.

That's the idea. Although I wouldn't tempt fate by spending too much in case I were to sort of... hit something.

Yes, it is. But ignore Clarkson, the VAG 1.4 3-cyl turbodiesel is a wonderful engine. It's the same one you'd find in the A2, the Arosa, the Lupo, the Polo etc etc. Ridiculously good economy and still has plenty of torque for such a tiny engine.

Was planning to. He also reckons 100hp isn't enough to safely travel on a motorway, so I shalln't take too much notice.

Ouch.

Just out of curiousity, are you an experimental test pilot and bomb disposal expert with 11 points on your licence living in nuclear research facility in Sheerness? £1,700 insurance for a Matiz is one of the most obscene things I've ever heard.

Sheerness... *shudder*

To be fair that £1700 quote was for a 2007 Chevrolet Matiz. Although I found it rather odd considering that a 2008 Micra Tekna was £31 cheaper.

Still, the Alfa is significantly under your budget limit, which affords you a little extra on your insurance. Gwan, you know it makes sense.

Don't tempt me... :S

 

[Ingram]

(oh, and Renault Clio as a first car is a reasonable idea - at least that way you haven't driven anything else to see how awful it is)

Coming from the person who suggested a Jaguar X-Type as a first car... good effort:tup:

 

[homeforsummer]

Was planning to. He also reckons 100hp isn't enough to safely travel on a motorway, so I shalln't take too much notice.

In fairness to Jezza, he doesn't seem to be alone with that opinion. He appears to share it with the majority of the motoring press (at least the portion of the motoring press trying to be like Clarkson, except without the irony), and also a select proportion of members on this forum.

I get by with 60bhp just fine. I'm not sure I'd want less power but suggesting that anything less than 100 is too little is nonsense.

To be fair that £1700 quote was for a 2007 Chevrolet Matiz. Although I found it rather odd considering that a 2008 Micra Tekna was £31 cheaper.

You could always get one of the original 800cc Daewoo Matiz Doesn't someone on this forum have one? Danny perhaps (as in, whose old username was Danachronism)?

 

[Jondot]

In fairness to Jezza, he doesn't seem to be alone with that opinion. He appears to share it with the majority of the motoring press (at least the portion of the motoring press trying to be like Clarkson, except without the irony), and also a select proportion of members on this forum.

I get by with 60bhp just fine. I'm not sure I'd want less power but suggesting that anything less than 100 is too little is nonsense.

Well that's the thing, I'm currently driving around with 90bhp under the bonnet and it's plenty for me. Although to be fair that's a diesel, so there's the extra torque to consider too.

Anyway, I wouldn't want to have much less than that.

You could always get one of the original 800cc Daewoo Matiz Doesn't someone on this forum have one? Danny perhaps (as in, whose old username was Danachronism)?

Well considering I spent about 7 weeks mocking him for it, it might not be the best idea...


EDIT

Look!

£4,695 + £1,656 insurance = £6,000...ish

 

[homeforsummer]

That insurance price is actually pretty good. If you're prepared to pay the initial outlay for the car over something less expensive then I'd say go for it. If the insurance starts off that "cheap" then if you keep it for a good few years the insurance cost will tumble and it'll be pretty cheap to run in the meantime.

 

[Picc84]

Well considering you want something newer, and for 6grand I don't know what that is in USD, but for my first car I bought an Acura Integra (3ed Gen) and I absoutly love it, Amazing car to learn to drive on, and can be Really fun to drive! Its cheap, easy on insurence, but something newer is your cliche such as the Audi in your list, maybe a RSX? Their sporty as hell looking and fun to drive aswell! You can pick them up pretty cheap too! Ive seen them go for 5-10k in USD

3ed Gen Integra (94-2001)

4th Gen Integra, RSX (2002-2007?)

EDIT: Ok, so I think your from the UK/around there, both cars are not THAT hard to find, and have really sweet 3ed break lights in the rear bumper as a fog rear break light. But im a tuner kinda guy, and love my hondas, im sure most of the cars the other guys have brought to your attencion may be better, but its worth a shot to see what insurence will cost you!

 

[Famine]

We never got the RSX/Integra and we only got the previous Integra as a Type-R. The insurance for that would be astronomical, if anyone would actual quote him for it.

Coming from the person who suggested a Jaguar X-Type as a first car... good effort:tup:

More coming from someone who had prolonged experience of a Renault Clio.

Anyway, a Jaguar X-Type is an excellent first car. It's a Mondeo, so you get all the Mondeo goodness. It has many seats for all your potential sexual partners. It's a Jaguar, so you can entice your many potential sexual partners into the car. It doesn't matter that the moronic kids in CorSax10Punto and suchlike want to race you or think their car is faster or better handling because you have a Jaguar and they... don't.

Same goes for the 156 - and it's as much to insure that for him as it is to insure an Audi A2 - and only 20% more than a Fabia, 306 and Smart Car (and that's for the Sportwagon which costs more to insure than the saloon).

 

[homeforsummer]

More coming from someone who had prolonged experience of a Renault Clio.

Although it's an amusing read it's also perhaps a little over-exaggerated and indeed many of the things you mention about the Clio actually apply to my Fiesta too (or are better than the Fiesta, e.g. the seats, the engine, the dials (skipping in 20s isn't that much of a big deal) etc) so I don't personally consider them faults. I think you've just been spoilt a little by the MX-3

Regarding the brakes in your review, almost any >year 2000 car I've driven feels like that. The pedal sinks through two inches of travel with a hiss and then bites. I find it disconcerting whatever I'm driving coming from a car with no servo-assistance.

Anyway, a Jaguar X-Type is an excellent first car.

I like the X-Type but the only way it would be an excellent first car is if a 40+ businessperson was taking their test later in life.

It's a Jaguar

Don't you mean a Jaaaaaagg?

only 20% more than a Fabia, 306 and Smart Car.

If Jon had been quoted £100 for insuring the smart then it'd probably be worth paying an extra 20% to get the Alfa, but when his quotes are in the £2k ballpark then 20% more isn't really pocket change any longer

 

[Stotty]

I've read through this thread, but I can't help scrolling back to the top just to check that I wasn't dreaming I saw £2,000 quoted for insurance on what are basically shopping trolleys... is that what all young drivers have to pay?

 

[homeforsummer]

I've read through this thread, but I can't help scrolling back to the top just to check that I wasn't dreaming I saw £2,000 quoted for insurance on what are basically shopping trolleys... is that what all young drivers have to pay?

It is nowadays. When I started driving six years ago it cost £1400 in the first year to insure my 1.3 Fiesta which sits in group 4 - and some of those cars that Jon quoted sit in group 1 and 2. Insurance companies have come down on young drivers like a tonne of bricks.

 

[Famine]

Although it's an amusing read it's also perhaps a little over-exaggerated and indeed many of the things you mention about the Clio actually apply to my Fiesta too so I don't personally consider them faults. I think you've just been spoilt a little by the MX-3

Not at all - remember I had 3 Mk3 Fiestas before that and I'd far rather have driven them than the Clio. Brake pedal feel, chuckability, analogue steering, didn't take off at 85mph, a biting point, switches that did what you told them to do... Heaven.

And I'd only had the MX-3 for 18 months at that point.

I like the X-Type but the only way it would be an excellent first car is if a 40+ businessperson was taking their test later in life

I hate it. Oddly.

Don't you mean a Jaaaaaagg?

Exactly the point

If Jon had been quoted £100 for insuring the smart then it'd probably be worth paying an extra 20% to get the Alfa, but when his quotes are in the £2k ballpark then 20% more isn't really pocket change any longer

Yeah, but he's saving 50% of the purchase price buying the car in the first place compared to the Smart. £2,200 for a 2003 1.8TS saloon with sensible mileage...


Anyway, I did say left-field He's making a significant saving on purchase price - sufficient to more than offset a small increase in the insurance budget (though the X-Type surprises me, considering it's a Mondeo) - to get a far higher class car that meets and exceeds all his requirements, still well inside his budget.

 

[Danster]

Oh, If I could lend any help, Direct Line Insurance seems to be quite cheap and they dont appear on price comparison sites (sadly).

As far as I can remember, we got a good deal on the Ka.

Oh and £1440 for a '54 Zafira to insure from Direct Line so smaller cars may be less costly than that.