Jon's SportKa type thread thing

[Stotty]

It is nowadays. When I started driving six years ago it cost £1400 in the first year to insure my 1.3 Fiesta which sits in group 4 - and some of those cars that Jon quoted sit in group 1 and 2. Insurance companies have come down on young drivers like a tonne of bricks.

Wow, that's just crazy... my 911 is less than £700 per year and would be considerably cheaper if it was on a limited mileage policy.

And I guess £2,000 represents a fairly major proportion of your net earnings too... it's not like many teenagers are earning £50k a year. Doesn't leave a lot for beer and girls.

 

[homeforsummer]

Not at all - remember I had 3 Mk3 Fiestas before that and I'd far rather have driven them than the Clio. Brake pedal feel, chuckability, analogue steering, didn't take off at 85mph, a biting point, switches that did what you told them to do... Heaven.

And I'd only had the MX-3 for 18 months at that point.

I think that the Fiesta is unusually good for what it is though. If you think about the cars I've test driven in my "choosing thread" and add a couple of racing MINI Coopers and MX-5s to it plus a VW Transporter van, a PT Cruiser, a Ford Ka and a Zetec version of my Fiesta, you have pretty much everything I've ever driven.

Here are a list of cars with better brake pedal feel than my Fiesta:

• Mazda MX-5 cup car

Here's a list of cars with a better gearchange than my Fiesta:

• Mazda MX-5 cup car
• Mazda MX-5 road car
• Honda Del Sol

Here's a list of cars with better steering feel than the unassisted Fiesta:

• Mazda MX-5 cup car
• Mazda MX-5 road car
• BMW 318ti compact

Sure, plenty of stuff I've driven is quicker or has more grip or is more comfortable, but in tactile aspects the only things that are significantly better are a couple of sports cars and a well-specced BMW. So maybe you'd been spoilt by the Fiestas rather than the MX-3

Exactly the point

If he wants a Jaaaaaaagg he may as well go the whole hog and buy an old XJ for a grand and spend the other £7k insuring it

Yeah, but he's saving 50% of the purchase price buying the car in the first place compared to the Smart. £2,200 for a 2003 1.8TS saloon with sensible mileage...

You can find smarts for a couple of grand though if you look hard enough and they only ever have about 30k miles on them because they've been used in the city for their whole lives. Not that I'd have a smart over a 156, but again we're talking first cars here.

And I guess £2,000 represents a fairly major proportion of your net earnings too... it's not like many teenagers are earning £50k a year. Doesn't leave a lot for beer and girls.

£2k is currently around one quarter of what I'll earn this year unless I can get more hours. Jon's budget is a little higher than mine by the looks of things, but it's certainly not a decision to take lightly (that's a large part of why I'm taking rather a long time to decide on a replacement for my car - it's not something I want to rush into when I have to pay for a flat and a degree out of my own wages).

 

[Famine]

If he wants a Jaaaaaaagg he may as well go the whole hog and buy an old XJ for a grand and spend the other £7k insuring it

A grand's worth of Jag is marginally less useful than just burning the money. Unless you're a Jaguar technician.

You can find smarts for a couple of grand though if you look hard enough and they only ever have about 30k miles on them because they've been used in the city for their whole lives. Not that I'd have a smart over a 156, but again we're talking first cars here.

Oh I agree - but Smarts really do suck giant hairy ones. I wouldn't like to, for instance, have to take evasive action in one.

First cars don't have to be cack, or hatchbacks (or cack hatchbacks). My left-field suggestions are much better cars which still meet his requirements - though they do hop up the insurance by a couple hundred spondulies, they are also cheaper to buy since big cars depreciate quicker. That said, a £2,250 2003 156 has pretty much done all its depreciating and he can shift it when he's done with it for not much less (or get a similar strength insurance payout).

I bought my third Fiesta for £2,350 - it was 5 years old (that Alfa is six), had 40k on it (the Alfa has 55k - and a six digit odo, so the Fiesta could well have done 140k) and, other than leccy windows, was toyless (the Alfa is an Alfa). Sadly, the 156 wasn't that cheap back then - would have been a 155, and everything they say about Alfas is true of 155s...


Also, he's got enough money in his current budget to set aside and insure the Alfa next year as well

 

[PureAwesomeness]

How about this? Loaded with lots of goodies (air-con, remote locking and electric windows as requested). Relatively low mileage. Toyota, so you know it's going to be reliable and probably well looked after. I'm sure you could knock down the price a bit too. Only thing is I don't know how much the insurance would set you back (says it's group 4).

2004 04 Reg TOYOTA Corolla 1.6 VVT-i T3
Price: £4,695
Features:
27,000 milesManualSilverPetrolSaloon1598 cc
Full Description:
Glossary of Terms
4 Doors, Manual, Saloon, Petrol, 27,000 miles, Metallic Silver, 1 Owner. ABS, Air conditioning, Alloy wheels, Folding rear seats, Immobiliser, Passenger airbag, Side airbags, Radio/CD, Rear headrests, Body coloured bumpers, Front electric windows, Front head restraints, Height adjustable drivers seat, PAS, Rear wiper, Steering wheel rake adjustment, Trip computer, Audio remote control, Cloth seat trim, Drivers airbag, Electric door mirrors, Front fog lights, Isofix child seat anchor points, Remote central locking, Full size spare wheel, Full Main Dealer History. Insurance Group:4, £4,695

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/TOYOTA+COROLLA/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-50-59-62-240-4294966227-4294967144/advert.action?R=200924336168546&distance=181&postcode=ct1+1wz&channel=CARS&make=TOYOTA&model=COROLLA&min_pr=&max_pr=&max_mileage=&vehicleYearOfManufacture=2004&vehicleRegLetter=04

 

[Jondot]

Although it's an amusing read it's also perhaps a little over-exaggerated and indeed many of the things you mention about the Clio actually apply to my Fiesta too (or are better than the Fiesta, e.g. the seats, the engine, the dials (skipping in 20s isn't that much of a big deal) etc) so I don't personally consider them faults. I think you've just been spoilt a little by the MX-3

Oh I dunno, much of the issues are present in my friend's Clio. Her gearbox is pretty much impossible to use (although she gets around such things by avoiding 3rd gear...) and the clutch is a complete guessing game. It was being so awful that she even booked it in for a new one, but the dealer thought there was 'nothing wrong' with it.

Regarding the brakes in your review, almost any >year 2000 car I've driven feels like that. The pedal sinks through two inches of travel with a hiss and then bites. I find it disconcerting whatever I'm driving coming from a car with no servo-assistance.

Some are worse than others though. In the C4 they do exactly that, and it's a little disconcerting to begin with. But actually I've got used to them now and quite like how little I have to press to get the thing to slow down.

Bizzarely though, Peugeot don't seem to do the same thing. My test car was a 207, and to even attempt to make that stop you had to push the brake pedal so far that I'm sure the only thing slowing me down was the friction from my right foot on the tarmac.




RE the whole car price vs insurance thing: the thing is, I don't mind spending more on the car, because generally the car will hold at least a little bit of that value for the next couple of years. That or it'll be a fundamentally better car, or will come with more kit, or should be less likely to break down. Unless it's French.

Insurance, however, I will never get back. I pay for a year and then it's just sort of... gone. It's throwing money away, and the less I throw away the better.

...but having said that, I do get the Alfa and Jag vs usual tat argument. If the car is £1,000 less, then fine, I can see the logic in then paying a bit more on insurance. But I'd have to know that the price would lower again next year. I don't want to be paying £2,500 a year until I'm 23.

I probably wouldn't buy an Alfa though. If I was paying that much on a car plus insurance, I'd quite like to know that 70 trillion things aren't going to go wrong with it in the next couple of years. A Mondeo, however...


Plus although I'd be 18 when the time came to buy anything, essentially whatever my mum says goes. Regardless of whether or not it's my money sitting in my account (which it is) there isn't a hope in hell of her letting me buy a 1.8 Alfa or a 2 litre Mondeo. And if she's not happy, she can simply decide not to pay for my uni accommodation (a year of which costs almost as much as insuring an X-type). So I have to sort of please her to a degree.

A Micra would please her no-end.


I could sort of stretch to a Focus if I got the 1.6 diesel and told her it was as economical as her car as. Or a C4, but I don't relish the idea of having the same car as my mum.




...and no, I don't really want a Smart. It and its stupid gearbox would drive me insane. I'd quite like one sitting on my driveway as a sort of ornament, but don't make me drive one.

How about this? Loaded with lots of goodies (air-con, remote locking and electric windows as requested). Relatively low mileage. Toyota, so you know it's going to be reliable and probably well looked after. I'm sure you could knock down the price a bit too. Only thing is I don't know how much the insurance would set you back (says it's group 4).

2004 04 Reg TOYOTA Corolla 1.6 VVT-i T3
Price: £4,695
Features:
27,000 milesManualSilverPetrolSaloon1598 cc
Full Description:
Glossary of Terms
4 Doors, Manual, Saloon, Petrol, 27,000 miles, Metallic Silver, 1 Owner. ABS, Air conditioning, Alloy wheels, Folding rear seats, Immobiliser, Passenger airbag, Side airbags, Radio/CD, Rear headrests, Body coloured bumpers, Front electric windows, Front head restraints, Height adjustable drivers seat, PAS, Rear wiper, Steering wheel rake adjustment, Trip computer, Audio remote control, Cloth seat trim, Drivers airbag, Electric door mirrors, Front fog lights, Isofix child seat anchor points, Remote central locking, Full size spare wheel, Full Main Dealer History. Insurance Group:4, £4,695

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-u...cleYearOfManufacture=2004&vehicleRegLetter=04

I didn't even know they made Corolla saloons! Not a bad suggestion actually, although at that price it's up against my beloved C4. I'll do an insurance quote on it when I get back later tonight

 

[Danster]

Did Anyone Take account of post #30?

It May Help.

 

[Ingram]

More coming from someone who had prolonged experience of a Renault Clio.

Anyway, a Jaguar X-Type is an excellent first car. It's a Mondeo, so you get all the Mondeo goodness. It has many seats for all your potential sexual partners. It's a Jaguar, so you can entice your many potential sexual partners into the car. It doesn't matter that the moronic kids in CorSax10Punto and suchlike want to race you or think their car is faster or better handling because you have a Jaguar and they... don't.

Same goes for the 156 - and it's as much to insure that for him as it is to insure an Audi A2 - and only 20% more than a Fabia, 306 and Smart Car (and that's for the Sportwagon which costs more to insure than the saloon).

I tend to rely on getting sexual partners by talking to the opposite sex, rather than flashing car keys in their face, and thus far, it has worked very well for me. An X-Type is hardly an E-Type, I think the sexual partners you may attract with this car are somewhat questionable.

If i wanted Mondeo goodness, I would buy a Mondeo, if I then decided I wanted a Jaaag, then perhaps I would paint my Mondeo gold and stick some wood trim on the inside. But I wouldn't, because that would be stupid. The mondeo would be a preferable option for someone who has just passed their test, because it is cheaper to buy/insure/repair. I can appreciate you are trying to suggest cars from the left field, but.. no.

Anyhoo, back to the Clio; i have chucked it around plenty and have never wrapped it around a tree, all of the switches work, even beyond 85mph, I can confidently say it has never taken off, and in the four years I have owend it, it has had just two reliability issues (an ignition problem, solved by resetting the ECU, and a driveshaft issue whereby a CV joint starded to wear away as its boot had come loose.) Hardly a catologue of errors, is it? Although I havent driven a Fiesta, I have driven a Ka, and I can hardly say I was blown away by how much better the brake feel was. As for the biting opint.. Its near the start of the travel, it isnt that difficult to find, and I my gearbox has been problem free, and more satisfying to use than those of a Focus/Astra/Punto/Corsa. It's only meant to be a first car anyway, it dosen't need to be ragged around a track.

Still, I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion..

I like the 156 idea, though there is also the option of a 147, being a little smaller it may be more suited to a first car.

 

[Jondot]

Did Anyone Take account of post #30?

It May Help.

I did Sorry, had a lot of posts to address.

Yeah, I'll deffo try them. I also want to try Admiral's multicar thing (as I suppose we'd be a 2 car household), but I'm still hovvering around price comparison sites to get a rough idea of what's cheap and what's not.

I think the sexual partners you may attract with this car are somewhat questionable.

I think in my position the best car to attract potential partners would be one of these:

So I'm thinking that's probably not the best approach to take when choosing a car

If i wanted Mondeo goodness, I would buy a Mondeo, if I then decided I wanted a Jaaag, then perhaps I would paint my Mondeo gold and stick some wood trim on the inside. But I wouldn't, because that would be stupid. The mondeo would be a preferable option for someone who has just passed their test, because it is cheaper to buy/insure/repair. I can appreciate you are trying to suggest cars from the left field, but.. no.

To be fair, I am sort of taking suggestions no matter how left field they may be. Famine thought I could insure it, I couldn't, no biggie.

Anyhoo, back to the Clio; i have chucked it around plenty and have never wrapped it around a tree, all of the switches work, even beyond 85mph, I can confidently say it has never taken off, and in the four years I have owend it, it has had just two reliability issues (an ignition problem, solved by resetting the ECU, and a driveshaft issue whereby a CV joint starded to wear away as its boot had come loose.) Hardly a catologue of errors, is it? Although I havent driven a Fiesta, I have driven a Ka, and I can hardly say I was blown away by how much better the brake feel was. As for the biting opint.. Its near the start of the travel, it isnt that difficult to find, and I my gearbox has been problem free, and more satisfying to use than those of a Focus/Astra/Punto/Corsa. It's only meant to be a first car anyway, it dosen't need to be ragged around a track.

Just out of interest, which generation Clio is yours? As I said, I'm giving it a test drive if only to see whether I actually like it. If I do, it's an easy way to a £1500 premium.

I like the 156 idea, though there is also the option of a 147, being a little smaller it may be more suited to a first car.

I did consider the 147 as it happens, but I think I was put off simply by reliability. The same issues would apply to the 156, but the 156 is considerably prettier so I might be able to forgive it . I will check out the quotes for a 147 though.

If I did buy an Alfa then I'd insist on a rock-solid warranty. Otherwise it'd probably bankrupt me.

 

[Famine]

I think in my position the best car to attract potential partners would be one of these:

I passed over the earlier comment along these lines... But...

How about an MX-5? The lad who bought Ellie from us (Mk1 1.8) had insurance under a grand and he was only 19. You can get a 1999 Mk2 1.8 for £2,400 and it'll meet all your requirements.

I tend to rely on getting sexual partners by talking to the opposite sex, rather than flashing car keys in their face, and thus far, it has worked very well for me. An X-Type is hardly an E-Type, I think the sexual partners you may attract with this car are somewhat questionable.

Apparently the opposite sex isn't the issue here...

Besides, anyone who'll bonk you for your car is someone you might want to use double-protection for. But that's how it works with kids - and you'd get more response from a nearly-new Jaaaaag than a very elderly, tarted up Corsa.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Oh, If I could lend any help, Direct Line Insurance seems to be quite cheap and they dont appear on price comparison sites (sadly).

As far as I can remember, we got a good deal on the Ka.

Oh and £1440 for a '54 Zafira to insure from Direct Line so smaller cars may be less costly than that.

Jon's lucky in that he'll be 18 when he starts driving, as they don't insure 17 year olds. I'm insured with Motor Direct, availble through Money Supermarket.com. My first years insurance was £1400, second year was £1300, only because I only had 10.5 months on my licence despite having 1 years NCB. That's what happens when your insurance carries over from provisional

I think in my position the best car to attract potential partners would be one of these:
*snip*


So I'm thinking that's probably not the best approach to take when choosing a car

Extermely cramped back seats, only seats 4 and the boot is a joke with or without the roof up.

Regarding the Afla. I'm assuming all your insurance quotes are "3rd part, fire and theft"? Because the cost to repair would be monumental an you'd have to have fully comp on the alfa.

Read this just incase there was a chance you still wanted the 156.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=7

 

[Ingram]

Just out of interest, which generation Clio is yours? As I said, I'm giving it a test drive if only to see whether I actually like it. If I do, it's an easy way to a £1500 premium.

A MK3 Clio, 1.2 Dynamique, 02 reg. Only about 37,000 miles, but within your budget you might be able to get a lower mileage than that.

I did consider the 147 as it happens, but I think I was put off simply by reliability. The same issues would apply to the 156, but the 156 is considerably prettier so I might be able to forgive it . I will check out the quotes for a 147 though.

Fair enough, I'm sure if you went to an Alfa specialist it would reduce the chances of it being a dog. I found a specialist near me and all of the models on their forecourt were very tidy, and the 147 I drove felt pretty sound, too.

Besides, anyone who'll bonk you for your car is someone you might want to use double-protection for. But that's how it works with kids - and you'd get more response from a nearly-new Jaaaaag than a very elderly, tarted up Corsa.

You're not wrong there. Though you wouldn't neccessarily get more response from a Jaaaag, perhaps just a less 'jailbait' response...

 

[Danster]

I was about to suggest the Alfa Spider. Then I thought about about insurance ...
Plus you wouldn't get many sexual partners with the Spider. It has a back end like Hilary Clinton with piles.

 

[TheCracker]

(and think of the honies - you drive an Alfa Romeo and you can fit 4 of them in it... Five if you're Peter Sutcliffe)

Unless I'm much mistaken, Jon's not that interested in the honies

Ok, think of the dudes then - drive the 156 and you can fit 4 of them in it.... Eighteen and 3/4's if you're Jeffrey Dahmer.

 

[Peterram430]

Hyundai Accent Coupe?

 

[takethewall]

Nissan 300zx? or a Fairlady? I don't know what they're called in the uk. I love mine.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Nissan 300zx? or a Fairlady? I don't know what they're called in the uk. I love mine.

LOL. What? Jon's a millionaire? When did that happen?!

 

[takethewall]

LOL. What? Jon's a millionaire? When did that happen?!

I'm sorry... I don't understand.

 

[TheCracker]

I'm sorry... I don't understand.

The point is that Jon, if you look at his first thread post, is looking at $1700 for a year's insurance on a 800cc Chevy/Daewoo Matiz. A 300ZX (as they were named in the UK) is either going to be impossible or very expensive for him to insure, no matter how cheaply he'd be able to pick one up for.

 

[takethewall]

Oh okay, all i know is here in the US i pay $1000 a year and i'm 19. sorry.
How much would insurance be on a 200sx (i believe thats what they are, a 240sx here in the states). My first car was a maxima, and it was a great car as well.

 

[TheCracker]

Probably still prohibitively expensive - young 'uns get really shafted over here for car insurance. 200sx's were sold here, but are fairly rare and most have probably been modified in some way by now. 20 year olds can get insurance on larger capacity cars, but it tends to be for the more 'sensible' family saloon/sedans. Mention 'coupe', '2-seater', or 'roadster' to an insurance agent and you might as well double your quote for the similar engined safe/sensible version.

 

[homeforsummer]

LOL. What? Jon's a millionaire? When did that happen?!

I don't think Jon's a millionaire but with the 300ZX I suspect the real barrier would be the fact that he's probably not a hispanic drug dealer either.

 

[Jondot]

I passed over the earlier comment along these lines... But...

How about an MX-5? The lad who bought Ellie from us (Mk1 1.8) had insurance under a grand and he was only 19. You can get a 1999 Mk2 1.8 for £2,400 and it'll meet all your requirements.

I shall indeed check the quote for one. I'm not so hot on 2 seaters, but I'd happily go for an MX5.

Jon's lucky in that he'll be 18 when he starts driving, as they don't insure 17 year olds. I'm insured with Motor Direct, availble through Money Supermarket.com. My first years insurance was £1400, second year was £1300, only because I only had 10.5 months on my licence despite having 1 years NCB. That's what happens when your insurance carries over from provisional

Bummer. Well mine's going to be essentially like I've never driven, as I've been going around for months as a named driver with Zurich.

Hopefully the cost might come down a bit. According to said insurance company, the cost will drop when I hit 18. Whether it'll drop £200 or 2p remains to be seen, but that's what I've been told.

Extermely cramped back seats, only seats 4 and the boot is a joke with or without the roof up.

If I can just state that I don't actually want a Beetle convertible There are much better cars and/or floral cake tins for much less money.

Regarding the Afla. I'm assuming all your insurance quotes are "3rd part, fire and theft"? Because the cost to repair would be monumental an you'd have to have fully comp on the alfa.

I think crashing an Alfa would be a bit like breaking an egg. Once it's done, you might as well just give up rather than spending time and money trying to stick it all back together.

But then I probably wouldn't have an Alfa anyway as it's a little... risky, shall we say.

Ok, think of the dudes then - drive the 156 and you can fit 4 of them in it.... Eighteen and 3/4's if you're Jeffrey Dahmer.

Do I give off a serial killer vibe or something?!

Although now I think about it, my friend does keep informing me that her Passat's boot holds 3 dead bodies...

...why do I know these people?

Hyundai Accent Coupe?

Really really really not.

 

[takethewall]

I don't think Jon's a millionaire but with the 300ZX I suspect the real barrier would be the fact that he's probably not a hispanic drug dealer either.

Thanks, haha. Jeremy Clarkson referred to it as a pornographers car. Oh well. I love mine.

 

[PureAwesomeness]

Did you get a quote for that Toyota Corolla I suggested? Just curious.

 

[Jondot]

I did indeed, the cheapest for the Corolla you posted was £1,887. Thought it'd be a bit cheaper than that, but hey.

While I was there, I quoted for an MX5 too.

*Cries*

 

[ExigeEvan]

lol In the eyes of an insurer...

Youngdriver + rear-wheel drive = crash waiting to happen.

Guy in work recentley go mk.1 MX-5 and even after I warned him about it in the wet he still managed to fish-tail it on a piece of road he claimed to have hammered hundreds of times.... in a clio.


FABIA FABIA FABIA FABIA

 

[homeforsummer]

Despite the popular myth the cheapest cars to insure aren't the ones that young drivers are less likely to buy (Mondeo, MX-5... X-Type) it seems, but those that actually have low insurance groups.

So something along the lines of Fabia/Fiesta/Clio etc are probably the best options.

 

[Jondot]

So something along the lines of Fabia/Fiesta/Clio etc are probably the best options.

Oh I couldn't have anything other than those anyway. Both logic and mother dictates I buy something reasonably small.

I don't think I'd want an MX-5 either... Not as my first car anyway, because that would essentially equal a crash waiting to happen as soon as the roads got a tad icy.





On another note, I don't think I trust this Quinn Direct lot's quotes. I just looked at my confused.com homepage and saw this:

They've also quoted me exactly the same price for a 1.4 Fusion, right down to the 97p.

 

[PureAwesomeness]

I did indeed, the cheapest for the Corolla you posted was £1,887. Thought it'd be a bit cheaper than that, but hey.

Hmmm, that's a shame. Puts you 500 pounds over budget. Young British drivers really do get nailed on insurance premiums. I live in Japan now and I could get insured (reasonably) for just about any car I like. It's not uncommon to see newly licensed drivers over here driving Type R's, V8 Landcruisers, Skylines, you name it.

There have been some pretty wacky suggestions on this thread: Jags, Alfas, MX5s etc. As a general rule, I'd say if it sounds remotely cool or exciting you probably won't get it insured for cheap.

Good luck with your continued hunt!

 

[Jondot]

There have been some pretty wacky suggestions on this thread: Jags, Alfas, MX5s etc. As a general rule, I'd say if it sounds remotely cool or exciting you probably won't get it insured for cheap.

Good luck with your continued hunt!

Thanks

Well bear in mind my idea of cool and exciting is the Micra I posted earlier, so generally I'm sort of OK I wouldn't feel comfortable driving around in a Jag or an Alfa anyway - sort of like I didn't belong there.