Jules Bianchi passes away following accident at 2014 Formula 1 Japanese Grand Prix

[Swagger897]

What would one race tell you? If you do the race and no one dies of a head injury then they're good?

A race gives you absolutely no data as to whether closed cockpits would be helpful unless there's a major accident in which they would be relevant, and even then it's only a single data point.

And whether the crowd likes them or not is irrelevant too. With engines, maybe it would have been a good idea. With safety, the crowd can go jump in a lake if they don't like things that make the drivers safer.

If they want to find out whether closed cockpits would be helpful, then they need engineers doing the math, followed by rigorous crash testing. And that's going to be bloody expensive.

Why would the crowd be an irrelevant factor? Mercedes attempted to fix the issue of noise but shoved it off to show it wont happen, (in my eyes it made it look like they are done with complaining of the issue, as not much has been mentioned since).

I think people are getting to caught up with the change of the sport will ruin it's "originality" as Vettel said:

SV: Sort of a mixed feelings to be honest. If you look at Formula One cars since the beginning of Formula One and open-wheeled racing, I think it's one of the things that are very special about Formula One.

and Jenson:

but this is Formula One that's been open cockpit since the start of time so it's a very big change for the sport to make.

If they do introduce closed-cockpits the spirit of F1 will be killed

This will be the opinion for quite possibly a large percentage of fans, and that percentage may even include the same ones who were distraught at the introduction of turbocharged engines..

Then you have this man:

Who goes on a tirade to keep his seat from getting warm:

I have always said that if I was going to have an accident, it would be in a Formula 1 car because they are the safest in the world.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/jules-bianchi-crash-live-updates-4393413#ixzz3FiAsV1t8

How could he say that, when Alonso disproved him?

If this is anyone's excuse:

"It would change the look of Formula One cars, which I guess there is an aesthetic argument for. They are open-wheel, open-cockpit racing cars.

Then that is such a horrible look as to how life and motor racing has moved on..

When the majority of the drivers said they would like to test it out, I think that means something more than "hey, look at this drawing.."

Yes, in order for a closed cockpit to have any benefits it would have to be designed to work with the other existing safety features as well as a few other new ones relating to the canopy itself. This would pretty much require building a bespoke chassis just to optimize the system, which would be insanely expensive if it was only going to be for one race. It's really an all-or-nothing scenario, you can't just do a race here or there until you are comfortable with it.

Well obviously it has to be tested. Like a Corolla doesn't get tested before it goes to the market either...

It's not like it has to be a requirement either. 2010 Audi still ran an open cockpit R15 while Peugeot had the 908. Now it is required after all these years. Why wouldn't the companies be allowed to test this? I don't see money being an issue for top level teams for them to test. Some of these teams have more than enough resources to test these cars, than some do in the WEC. Open-wheel can still be open wheel, but the day when a driver brings fourth he wants change, will it be too late as they may have been ridiculed for the exact reason as I am, along with many others?

 

[Grayfox]

Also the persex will have to have some funky sealant on it so when it rains the water just flies off the window.

 

[GTPorsche]

Also the persex will have to have some funky sealant on it so when it rains the water just flies off the window.

That and speed = problem solved.

 

[Grayfox]

That and speed = problem solved.

Rain-X is the worst sealant you could get.

Rubbing olive oil on the window does the same job.

Gtechniq G5 is way way way better, lasts longer, doesnt smear as much and removes water with lower speeds

 

[disinfected]

At least it makes for a good livery.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Why would the crowd be an irrelevant factor? Mercedes attempted to fix the issue of noise but shoved it off to show it wont happen, (in my eyes it made it look like they are done with complaining of the issue, as not much has been mentioned since).

That was the TV audiences, not the crowds. People are over the shock though, as you imply.

I think people are getting to caught up with the change of the sport will ruin it's "originality" as Vettel said:and Jenson:

You understand the word "Formula", right? That's how formulas are.

This will be the opinion for quite possibly a large percentage of fans, and that percentage may even include the same ones who were distraught at the introduction of turbocharged engines.

It may but that seems to be a pointless point.

Then you have this man:
View attachment 237488

Who goes on a tirade to keep his seat from getting warm:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/jules-bianchi-crash-live-updates-4393413#ixzz3FiAsV1t8

How could he say that, when Alonso disproved him?

Sorry? What? Are you saying that Formula 1 cars aren't the safest in the world or is there some other anti-Bernie comment rolled up in there? And how did Alonso disprove him? Alonso's walked away from a number of very big crashes.

It's not like it has to be a requirement either. 2010 Audi still ran an open cockpit R15 while Peugeot had the 908. Now it is required after all these years. Why wouldn't the companies be allowed to test this? I don't see money being an issue for top level teams for them to test. Some of these teams have more than enough resources to test these cars, than some do in the WEC.

How would it not be a requirement in a Formula? What do you think Formula means (again)?

Do you follow F1 and are you aware of how the budgets work?

 

[Imari]

Why would the crowd be an irrelevant factor?

Say you have a feature that will demonstrably make the cars safer for the drivers, but the fans really dislike it (because it's ugly or whatever).

Are you seriously suggesting that anyone in their right mind would not implement a safety change because of what the fans might think?

That's why I said that there might be a reason to get public perception for something like the engine change, where the whole point is actually to appeal to the public (but in a totally bass ackwards way). But it's completely pointless for safety, where the change would be made regardless of what beer swilling Joe Blow thinks from the couch of his trailer.

Explain to me what useful information you get from polling crowds on what they think of a safety feature.
Explain to me what useful information you get from doing one race, where the safety feature may not even be tested, because you can be damn sure that drivers will not intentionally get in an accident to see how a new safety feature works.

I don't care a bit about how the sport changes. They're welcome to do what they see fit to keep it safe and entertaining. I'm critiquing your suggestions as to how they should work closed cockpits in. There's no need to try and misdirect by bringing the opinions of Bernie and the drivers into it.

 

[Jaywalker]

Because it's the right word, that's probably why.

You say Bianchi's accident "wasn't even mentioned", which was wholly incorrect (I've watched three different channels' coverage now, they all talked about it as soon as it happened). Don't tell me it was incorrect when you don't know what channel we get. (Supersport in SA) It was NOT mentioned until after the race.

You said that FOM were removing videos from the net; yes they are. They always have, F1 is big money business and they own the pictures. Add to that an incident which has just happened and which is (rightly) under judicial review. Why wouldn't FOM continue to remove videos as normal? Ya. Greed rules, I guess.

You then say you know the rules and procedures and that somehow the FIA (who you seem to have utterly confused with FOM) didn't follow the rules and procedures by not putting the safety car out... how so? I never said this at all. Read the post again.

There's nothing abnormal going on and no cover-up going on. Your opinion. That's cool.

The real issue is the timing of the tractor recovery and the difficulty that marshalls are having in lifting the unbalanced 2014 cars. The tractor should have been and gone by the time Bianchi arrived or shouldn't have been there at all until the section was properly neutralised. Safety car? There's also the possibility that Bianchi was somehow at fault; in fact there are a number of possibilities, ifs and buts that we don't have the answers to right now(Agreed), I guess if you're to be believed we'll never have them. Logic?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Long misquote

Needs fixing, your answers ended up in my quote. Ask if you need help.

So when you say the accident wasn't mentioned you now say it wasn't mentioned on your local coverage. Fair enough but I can assure you that I didn't note the same oversight on other feeds.

Greed rules? Media rights rule, that's not an argument limited to Formula 1. What's your point?

In those conditions, a safety car should have been deployed immediately after Sutil's shunt & they know it. (And yes, I'm aware of the normal procedures/rules.)

What did you mean by that if not that Race Control erred in their understanding of published rules/procedures?

 

[Jaywalker]

Needs fixing, your answers ended up in my quote. Ask if you need help. You hoping to become a mod? And... meh.

So when you say the accident wasn't mentioned you now say it wasn't mentioned on your local coverage. Fair enough but I can assure you that I didn't note the same oversight on other feeds. And your point is?

Greed rules? Media rights rule, that's not an argument limited to Formula 1. What's your point? That FOM is greedy. Simple.




What did you mean by that if not that Race Control erred in their understanding of published rules/procedures? That just because the rules don't stipulate that a safety car HAD to be deployed, didn't mean that they shouldn't have. they had the option.

 

[Barra333]

You hoping to become a mod?

No, but he was hoping to not have your side of the discussion misquoted to him. It is also quite difficult to read, with the software compressing the quote box.
Just break up the [ QUOTE] tags like everyone else does and there will be no problem.

 

[daan]

@Jaywalker Learn how to quote properly. Thanks.

 

[Jaywalker]

No, but he was hoping to not have your side of the discussion misquoted to him. It is also quite difficult to read, with the software compressing the quote box.
Just break up the [ QUOTE] tags like everyone else does and there will be no problem.

@Jaywalker Learn how to quote properly. Thanks.

Like this?

 

[daan]

Like this? Yes, thank you.

 

[Jaywalker]

 

[mustafur]

i find it weird how everyone refers F1 as Open wheel, never open cockpit, even though there have been a few F1 cars back in the day that where closed wheel.

Either way to say the spirit of F1 would be killed is a complete overreaction, I think keeping it open wheeled is the key to not making them essentially open top LMPs.

Weird to think this was an F1 car in 1955:

 

[TenEightyOne]

Weird to think this was an F1 car in 1955:

Strange exception though, and it was during a time when the Formulas were being mixed up to try to get entrants. And arguably killed more people than any other car in F1.

At the time the requirement was 'single seater'; no-one is saying that things cannot evolve but if you establish something in A Formula it has to be the same for all people, affordable for all people and should have a benefit for the Formula's feeder series.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

Anyone watching the F1 show now? Drivers are in an FIA meeting now discussing Charlie Whitings crash report. They watched the footage as well, but still not showing it globally. Jules aquaplaned on same patch, countersteered and then went off. Was clear no one slowed enough for yellow flags so they are trying out a pit lane limited solution tomorrow. May also change the recovery equipment with talks of a perimeter barrier placed around them.

Also the helicopter would have been able to take off from the circuit, the problem was that it couldn't land at the hospital. It made no difference ultimately.

 

[jtv90069]

At the time the requirement was 'single seater'; no-one is saying that things cannot evolve but if you establish something in A Formula it has to be the same for all people, affordable for all people and should have a benefit for the Formula's feeder series.

Not immediately though, and as design and manufacturing techniques improve the cost reduces. If F1 brought in a closed cockpit, F3 wouldn't need to follow suit the same year(or maybe not at all), and the further down the list(of series) you go the less you will need an enclosed space for the driver. Many of the F1 drivers started in Karts and they don't even have seat belts.
Each series needs to be looked at individually and have decisions made accordingly.

 

[GTPorsche]

Also the helicopter would have been able to take off from the circuit, the problem was that it couldn't land at the hospital. It made no difference ultimately.

True. The hospital was close enough, and not being able to land at the hospital meant the ambulance would have been just as fast, if not faster.

 

[zzz_pt]

Anyone watching the F1 show now? Drivers are in an FIA meeting now discussing Charlie Whitings crash report. They watched the footage as well, but still not showing it globally. Jules aquaplaned on same patch, countersteered and then went off. Was clear no one slowed enough for yellow flags so they are trying out a pit lane limited solution tomorrow. May also change the recovery equipment with talks of a perimeter barrier placed around them.

That's what some people have been sayin. :S Unfortunately we're not FIA :/

It's ludicrous to have a 7ton vehicle in the area without the safety car (specially in the rain) out or with a speed limit.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

Several people on here been saying all of it, says a lot to me. We knew the answers, but it'it's a shame that we had to wait for the question to be asked. How long has Martin Brundle (probably not the only example) expressed concern at recovery vehicles being on circuit with just yellow flags?

 

[GTPorsche]

Probably since Suzuka 20 years ago.

 

[TheBook]

Charlie Whiting's officially explained what happened to Bianchi.

The FIA has revealed more details about the circumstances that led up to Jules Bianchi's horrific Formula 1 accident at the Japanese Grand Prix.

During a media briefing at the Russian GP on Friday, F1 race director Charlie Whiting ran through CCTV footage of the minutes before Bianchi crashed into a recovery vehicle.

The video footage, taken from cameras overlooking Turn 7, showed the cars coming through the long left-hander in the closing stages of the Japanese Grand Prix.

With rain falling, the racing line appears to have less water on it - with worse conditions on the outside of the bend where cars are not running.

The incident begins when Adrian Sutil runs wide onto the outside line of water and spins off.

Whiting said: "There is a dryish line. As the rain has intensified, a little bit of water creeps on to the drier line, and as cars go a little bit wide there, you see that Adrian got onto that and lost control.

"He touches that slightly wetter bit of track, and he is behind Jules at this point.

"When he hits that slightly wetter bit of track, he loses control and spins."

A lap later, with double waved yellow flags being displayed, Bianchi hits the same bit of water.

But unlike Sutil, Bianchi does not spin around. Instead, he attempts to correct the slide but over-corrects and spears straight off the track.

Whiting added: "You can see Jules doing something similar. He hits the same bit of water, but there is a slight difference - he does not spin like Adrian did.

"He corrects and goes off at a slightly different trajectory."

Bianchi's car slides straight off the track and skips across a gravel trap before colliding with the recovery vehicle that is retrieving Sutil's car.

Whiting said that it was not yet possible to judge exactly what speed Bianchi hit the truck at.

"It is a little too early because you don't get any proper data from the car when it is going across gravel," he said.

"GPS data is all you can rely on and you cannot rely on that very much.

"It is not a good idea at this stage until we have proper investigations, really analyse the footage and GPS data to see what the impact speed was.

Heikki Kovalainen crash, Spanish GP 2008
"It would be too early to throw a figure out there and come back later and say it wasn't quite right."

The trajectory of Bianchi's accident means that even if he had not hit the truck, it would still have been a sizeable accident with the barriers.

"Looking at the first estimates of the speed of the car, I would say it would have been - with three row tyre barrier and guard rail -very similar to Heikki Kovalainen's accident in Barcelona [in 2008]," said Whiting. "But that is a very rough estimate."

Whiting said that initial analysis had ruled out mechanical failure for causing the crash.

 

[doblocruiser]

This morning on twitter of #Europe1: Bianchi is still in a coma. Wenn he comes out of it he will be severley handicapped.

Sad news

 

[Hun200kmh]

Very sad. I think this is the greatest tragedy in F1 racing since Ratzenberger and Senna's death.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think this is the greatest tragedy in F1 racing since Ratzenberger and Senna's death.

It's pretty much the only tragedy since Imola '94.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It's pretty much the only tragedy since Imola '94.

I know what you mean but I'd add the marshall deaths that have occured in between, not people most of us were familiar with but a reminder that it's never far away

There's also the death of Maria de Villota after crashing her Marussia last year.

 

[05XR8]

Massa was the luckiest out of getting struck by debris and high speed F1 crashes. He was able to race again.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Massa was the luckiest out of getting struck by debris and high speed F1 crashes. He was able to race again.

That's true, there was Burti too, flipped over the back of MSC when MSC lost gears at the start, also had a massive off and went straight under the barriers at Blanchimont, his head injuries effectively ended his career. At the time the response was so lackadaisical that Irvine himself could be seen organising the safety car to tow Burti's car out.

Should we continue this in the Michael Schumacher thread, perhaps ask a mod (@jtv90069 ?) to alter the title to add Bianchi? Seems daft continuing a GP thread but it's an ongoing topic.

EDIT: Recently an FIA warehouse was emptied and items returned to their owners. Burti's helmet was returned to him still wrapped in plastic and in the same condition it was taken from him. The marks on the top were made by the underneath of the tyre barriers :\