Jules Bianchi passes away following accident at 2014 Formula 1 Japanese Grand Prix

[marco89IT]

Some frames which could explain how Bianchi lost control of his Marussia. They're from an onboard video of Button during the race. The data doesn't show which lap it was; Button was completely alone with the track slowly drying out so it should be the beginning, when Jenson has been comfortable in 3rd place for a long time.

The point of Bianchi's (and Sutil's) impact is right in front of the car. On the outside of this really high speed corner, in front of the McLaren, there's a big patch of standing water. As you can see it doesn't cover the outside of the whole corner; at this exact point the tarmac under Button's tires seems almost at the same level of grip for its entire width. But 2 or 3 car lengths ahead, suddenly there's probably an hollow on the tarmac, which creates a big puddle. There's a big chromatic contrast between that and the ideal line on the inside.

A closer look. We should bear in mind that at the moment of the crash it was raining quite more heavily than at the moment of those pictures, so it's reasonable to think that the amount of water on track has increased, obviously. Especially on the right (outside), considering the hollow.
The point is that it's not progressive; if you're using the outside line suddenly you find yourself over a big puddle of standing water.

Here Button slightly hits the edge of that puddle with its front right tire, the difference in amount of water under the two front tires is clear from the spray.

Bianchi was driving at almost the speed of those Button pictures, around 210 km/h, with more water on track and worn intermediate tires. It's possible that he went a bit wide and hit that puddle straight, with all 4 wheels, causing immediate aquaplaning. Or he could've hit that with the rear right tire, which caused an immediate flick of the rear of the car, something like what happened at Sutil. And if you're wide, very close to the right outside limit of the track, at 210 km/h, when you countersteer you probably find yourself with the whole car on the grass, and at that point you're just a passenger. For a short time, since the barrier is very close.

 

[Swagger897]

There is no such thing as too fast to aquaplane. You can't brake and you can't steer.

Also, when aquaplaning friction is very much reduced so slowing down is not quick at all.

I can say from personal experience that's a load of it... People make out aquaplaning as dangerous but that's because people don't do anything while its happenng to them. Last year I had some really bald tires on tring to get some more miles until I could use the warranty to get a new set, and it was absolutely pissing it down on the Interstate. I was probably doing 80 over a bridge so water was just pooling and there were cars all over the sides who had smashed into them, faced backwards, etc.. Honestly, it was when in doubt power out..

But I'm not sayin Jules can't drive, nor any other driver. I just don't think it was aquaplaning, as Vettle went off similarly a corner before the one Jules did in the Esses.

 

[DQuaN]

I can say from personal experience that's a load of it... People make out aquaplaning as dangerous but that's because people don't do anything while its happenng to them. Last year I had some really bald tires on tring to get some more miles until I could use the warranty to get a new set, and it was absolutely pissing it down on the Interstate. I was probably doing 80 over a bridge so water was just pooling and there were cars all over the sides who had smashed into them, faced backwards, etc.. Honestly, it was when in doubt power out..

But I'm not sayin Jules can't drive, nor any other driver. I just don't think it was aquaplaning, as Vettle went off similarly a corner before the one Jules did in the Esses.

We're you in a front wheel drive car?

 

[spacecowboy73]

If aquaplaning isn't a concern why where there many drivers during the race complaining of it?

 

[TheCracker]

I can say from personal experience that's a load of it... People make out aquaplaning as dangerous but that's because people don't do anything while its happenng to them.

That's what aquaplaning is. It's a total loss of adhesion between the tyre and the surface. You can't do anything if your tyres are in effect not in contact with the road/track surface. No turning, no braking, nothing. You just have to sit it out. At 130mph even a split second of aquaplaning is enough to throw you off a curving track. If one side of your car suddenly starts to aquaplane, you'll rotate and spin. If all four tyres do it, you might as well be on ice.

 

[neljack]

The best explanation of the DAI.
http://wp.me/p40Sbu-AK
Stunned by the news. Every case is individual, but it really does not seem good.

Although, in saying that, Richard Hammond also suffered from a DAI
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5392296.stm

 

[Famine]

I just read this and even though I haven't agreed with him in the past I thought this was spot on:

http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/2271/

I find it interesting that Hartstein implies (well, states) that there's a culture amongst drivers to push the absolute limits of what they're allowed to do under double waved yellow flag conditions, regardless of considerations of safety to the marshals. I recall saying something about drivers exceeding safe speed under caution at the wet Hungarian Grand Prix this year and how it needs to be looked at before someone is killed...

 

[Bo]

Whilst it does look grim, others have survived similar things. He has the best medical team around him, and so far, he's managed to survive that impact. Let's hope he's strong enough to fight through this too.

 

[qwbufp]

Although, in saying that, Richard Hammond also suffered from a DIA
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5392296.stm

Let's hope the outcome is positive for Jules too! The thing with diffuse brain injuries is that the damage may take years before it becomes debilitating if the recovery is good in the short/medium term. I am not an expert though so let's hope doctors succeed in this case!

The good news, if there is one, is that the DAI probably means he did not directly hit the tractor with his head... The fact that drivers are now sitting quite low in formula cars might have saved his life.

 

[neljack]

For anyone wanting to further understand DAI, this is a helpful scientific video

 

[Solid Lifters]

From Wikipedia:

"Diffuse axonal injury (DAI) is one of the most common and devastating types of traumatic brain injury, meaning that damage occurs over a more widespread area than in focal brain injury. DAI, which refers to extensive lesions in white matter tracts, is one of the major causes of unconsciousness and persistent vegetative state after head trauma. It occurs in about half of all cases of severe head trauma.

The outcome is frequently coma, with over 90% of patients with severe DAI never regaining consciousness. Those who do wake up often remain significantly impaired."

Quite scary the outcome! It all depends on the severity of the DAI Bianchi has suffered. Looking at the video I doubt Bianchi will ever race again but lets hope for a better outcome.

 

[GTPorsche]

Richard Hammond, as has probably been mentioned previously in this thread had DAI after his 300mph accident, and was out of the hospital 9 days later with a miraculous recovery, so it is possible Bianchi can come out of it almost completely normal, but every head injury is different and we don't know what the full extent of the injury is. He's still very young and in top physical condition so there's some possible hope he could recover.

 

[Bo]

I would like to point out a large part of Hammond's recovery was down to him being in a 7 point harness, much like Bianchi would've been. The brain turning in such a trauma can increase the effects of brain damage by up to 1000%.

If anyone can pull through, Jules can. Forza Jules.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I find it interesting that Hartstein implies (well, states) that there's a culture amongst drivers to push the absolute limits of what they're allowed to do under double waved yellow flag conditions, regardless of considerations of safety to the marshals. I recall saying something about drivers exceeding safe speed under caution at the wet Hungarian Grand Prix this year and how it needs to be looked at before someone is killed...

If correct then that's a very relevant point indeed.

I still think that an immediate examination should be made of the method for lifting cars; with this year's engines the cars are very imbalanced on the cranes. When I watched the long clip I couldn't help but think that the tractor could have been-and-gone by the time Bianchi arrived, or it could at least have been in a position that he might have avoided.

 

[disinfected]

When I watched the long clip I couldn't help but think that the tractor could have been-and-gone by the time Bianchi arrived, or it could at least have been in a position that he might have avoided.

Not to mention it could have easily been the lives of the marshals out there standing next to it, too.

 

[Swagger897]

We're you in a front wheel drive car?

No, it was in a Dodge 2500. 2wd only.

That's what aquaplaning is. It's a total loss of adhesion between the tyre and the surface. You can't do anything if your tyres are in effect not in contact with the road/track surface. No turning, no braking, nothing. You just have to sit it out. At 130mph even a split second of aquaplaning is enough to throw you off a curving track. If one side of your car suddenly starts to aquaplane, you'll rotate and spin. If all four tyres do it, you might as well be on ice.

Well, like you said when only half of the wheels are in the water, the other two are not. You can still move about (if we are talking left and right) but the problem is people don't think it out. Car pulls right, they pull hard left and keep left even when out of the water and that's where they over correct, and spin like the Lexus driver I saw. You can still direct the water with the wheels, and accelerate to keep it in line. I'd almost like to say it's like rev matching, where you need to estimate what will happen when you're out of the scenario.

In my truck when it happened, it was fish tailing for a good three to four seconds, with intermittent waterfalls of water all over the road, on both left and right sides. However, I have gotten a close call in my other car, Taurus (with even worse tires) and that one pulled me hard right, and it was a similar situation of going over a flooded bridge.

I don't think the issue was aquaplaning as much as oversteer then underster, where he may have overestimated where the water was. Rosberg was complaining of it all day and maybe we didn't hear it from Jules, or maybe it was the tires he was on had met their end.

 

[Dennisch]

Richard Hammond, as has probably been mentioned previously in this thread had DAI after his 300mph accident, and was out of the hospital 9 days later with a miraculous recovery, so it is possible Bianchi can come out of it almost completely normal, but every head injury is different and we don't know what the full extent of the injury is. He's still very young and in top physical condition so there's some possible hope he could recover.

I think the major difference is that Hammond kept on bouncing with his vehicle and Bianchi pretty much came to a hold in the space of a couple of meters.

 

[GTPorsche]

I think the major difference is that Hammond kept on bouncing with his vehicle and Bianchi pretty much came to a hold in the space of a couple of meters.

That's the key difference.

 

[gokartman78]

Well, like you said when only half of the wheels are in the water, the other two are not. You can still move about (if we are talking left and right) but the problem is people don't think it out. Car pulls right, they pull hard left and keep left even when out of the water and that's where they over correct, and spin like the Lexus driver I saw. You can still direct the water with the wheels, and accelerate to keep it in line. I'd almost like to say it's like rev matching, where you need to estimate what will happen when you're out of the scenario.

In my truck when it happened, it was fish tailing for a good three to four seconds, with intermittent waterfalls of water all over the road, on both left and right sides. However, I have gotten a close call in my other car, Taurus (with even worse tires) and that one pulled me hard right, and it was a similar situation of going over a flooded bridge.

I don't think the issue was aquaplaning as much as oversteer then underster, where he may have overestimated where the water was. Rosberg was complaining of it all day and maybe we didn't hear it from Jules, or maybe it was the tires he was on had met their end.

You can redirect the water but the resultant force pushing you in the direction you are steering is minute, the tyre will eventually come into contact with the tarmac after the water has been displaced.

Given that the photo's posted from Button's onboard showed a build up of water on the outside of the track, aquaplaning seems like a vary plausible explanation. Dunlop is a left handed corner, so the right hand side tyres are 'loaded'. As he turned left, the weight transfers from a central position to the right hand side of the car, meaning that the right hand side tyres have a greater contact force than the left hand side tyres. If you assume that the tyres were in the same state (left and right have even coefficients of friction and tread depth was the same) then you can say that the right hand side tyres provide a greater frictional force and are responsible for more of the cars 'grip'. In this situation you only need the right hand side tyres to aquaplane to cause what appears to be a total loss of grip. If both of the right hand side tyres lost contact then the only thing keeping him on track is unloaded left hand side tyres, which means he would have <50% of the grip he would have expected to have. He could have slowed down more, but the speed he would have needed to slow down to if he was to prevent that scenario presented he would almost be a danger to other cars on track.

Were there any radio calls from teams/FIA about corners with standing water on?

 

[Spurgy 777]

I find it interesting that Hartstein implies (well, states) that there's a culture amongst drivers to push the absolute limits of what they're allowed to do under double waved yellow flag conditions, regardless of considerations of safety to the marshals. I recall saying something about drivers exceeding safe speed under caution at the wet Hungarian Grand Prix this year and how it needs to be looked at before someone is killed...

Pretty much, yellow flags might as well just mean "try not to crash", other than that, no one ever slows down for them unless forced to by rules/debris etc.

 

[Blitz24]

Pretty much, yellow flags might as well just mean "try not to crash", other than that, no one ever slows down for them unless forced to by rules/debris etc.

Sort of like yellow lights in traffic intersections.

 

[yzfmike]

Is there a set in stone speed that F1 cars go in a caution area? Seems like its just 3/4s the normal speed and no passing. Needs to slow down further and lay off the gas then once you clear resume as normal. Code 60 is a speed to slow for F1 cars to stay cool al tho its a short distance.

 

[GTPorsche]

They just can't set fast sector times in sectors with displayed yellows.

 

[spacecowboy73]

From another website talking about driver etiquette or lack there of in yellow flag zones:

"F1 engineers have told this site that in practice the drivers lift for a fraction of a second and then press on."

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/...to-a-change-in-safety-car-rules-in-formula-1/


Seems to me if nothing else, they really need to clamp down on this part of the regulations.

 

[Blitz24]

They just can't set fast sector times in sectors with displayed yellows.

Isn't that subjective though? I can think of loopholes where if there is a penalty for actually doing so will result in a driver being dinged.

 

[spacecowboy73]

It wasn't just yellow, double yellow flags were being waved, which means a driver must be prepared to stop if necessary .

 

[TenEightyOne]

They just can't set fast sector times in sectors with displayed yellows.

That's true, and F1 is about interpreting the "literally true" from the rules.

What if T2 had a sector time of 40s, lap after lap. Then the rain sets in over the course of 30s. A driver reaches T2 and only needs to drive a 38s to be guaranteed safety without losing track advantage (presuming no Safety Car at this point). The survivable time for T2 in the fresh downpour is 32s. What happens?

Is the driver doing anything wrong according to the demands of the sport and the rules?

 

[Blitz24]

That's true, and F1 is about interpreting the "literally true" from the rules.

What if T2 had a sector time of 40s, lap after lap. Then the rain sets in over the course of 30s. A driver reaches T2 and only needs to drive a 38s to be guaranteed safety without losing track advantage (presuming no Safety Car at this point). The survivable time for T2 in the fresh downpour is 32s. What happens?

Is the driver doing anything wrong according to the demands of the sport and the rules?

Wouldn't it also be on the other drivers to not "take advantage" of the situation said driver is in?

 

[Imari]

Is there a set in stone speed that F1 cars go in a caution area? Seems like its just 3/4s the normal speed and no passing. Needs to slow down further and lay off the gas then once you clear resume as normal. Code 60 is a speed to slow for F1 cars to stay cool al tho its a short distance.

So make it Code 100 or whatever. The speed should be at or below the minimum speed for every corner on the track, the driver should simply be on the limiter and steering, with all the rest of his attention on what's going on around him.

There's an advantage to having it be the same speed as the pit lane though, in that drivers can simply use their pit lane limiter to deal with the Code, rather than have a second limiter. If cars are getting too hot, then that is something that the teams need to then take into account in the design of their car.

 

[Liquid]

"F1 engineers have told this site that in practice the drivers lift for a fraction of a second and then press on."

Back in 1997, Hakkinen and Villeneuve were given suspended bans for doing exactly this in Japan. It needs stamping out.

Yellow means yellow.
Double yellow means 🤬 ing yellow.