Kamui Kobayashi tested the F10 at Fiorano

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hun200kmh
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Vodka-flavored ice creams called "Kimis" would certainly be very tempting...
 
Having just had my first taste of Water Buffalo Cheese Ice Cream, I think anything is possible. Perhaps Vodka and Bacon?

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I think Kamui is a great racer, and lots of fun to watch. I doubt we'll ever know how he compares to Massa, as his time in F1 is past. If Ferrari will take on someone to replace Felipe, it would likely be someone younger, fresher and whom they can sign on for the long term, if he turns out to be good.
 
Of course, if you want to keep harping on the "Fiat" connection, you'll have to show evidence of it.
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I'll have to? Is this a court or something? Are you an advocate? Last time I checked gtplanet.net is an internet forum.

Fiat has important market shares in Brazil this is a fact. Every company do marketing how they prefer. They may think keeping Massa in Ferrari is a good strategy. You pretend marketing automatically translates in more sales based on F1 results. It doesn't work like that. Companies do marketing regardless better sales, regardless F1 results.
Your average buyer has little to no idea that Fiat owns Ferrari
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If I have to act like you I have to ask you "Proof. Proof. Proof." Time to go in Brazil interviewing people on the street.

Anyway about racing performances, another embarassing effort, spun out after only 4 laps at Silverstone. That's enough.
 
As much as I love Kobayashi, I feel if Massa were to move on from Ferrari (One way or another), Hulkenberg would be a much safer bet.

He has proven from his time in midfield teams that he is a very fast and consistent driver. On at least 3 seperate occasions he has led races in cars which shouldn't be there.
 
HKS racer
I'll have to? Is this a court or something? Are you an advocate? Last time I checked gtplanet.net is an internet forum.
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Yes and a general "rule" of internet forums is that when you make a factual claim of some sort you then back it up with evidence. It's pretty standard.
 
HKS racer
If I have to act like you I have to ask you "Proof. Proof. Proof." Time to go in Brazil interviewing people on the street.
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You should do some research. Try finding a brazilian Fiat ad starred by Felipe. You won't. You know what is Fiat talking about right now in Brasil? Soccer. Period.

Brazilians are barely watching F1 nowadays, audience figures are as low as they ever been, much down to the fact that people don't believe Massa can come even close to winning a race.

God, Fittipaldi stars more ads in Brazil than Felipe, for obvious reasons... Massa is not there for marketing, and judging by his results, he will be out of Ferrari for next year.
 
HKS racer
I'll have to? Is this a court or something? Are you an advocate? Last time I checked gtplanet.net is an internet forum.
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gtplanet is a forum with rules. One of which is, and I quote:

You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.
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https://www.gtplanet.net/aup

So yes, evidence is required. These are the rules of gtplanet. Ignore them at your peril.

HKS racer
Fiat has important market shares in Brazil this is a fact. Every company do marketing how they prefer. They may think keeping Massa in Ferrari is a good strategy. You pretend marketing automatically translates in more sales based on F1 results. It doesn't work like that. Companies do marketing regardless better sales, regardless F1 results.
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I've already posted evidence showing the disconnect between your theorized Fiat intervention and Massa's stint on the team. All decisions on drivers over the past several years have hinged on the Spanish bank, Santander, which has a big interest in the Brazilian market.

And they're not shy about saying so:

http://www.sinequanon-intl.com/news...wareness-and-brand-recognition-via-formula-1/

Despite Alonso being an essential key player in the deal, Ferrari and Felipe Massa have an important role in this strategic alliance as well. Brazil is not only considered as one of the biggest markets for Santander but also has a huge growth potential in the upcoming years.
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http://www.santander.com.br/portal/...a_eng040811_68846.zip/ativos-intangiveis.html

img-melhor-mundos3.jpg

Felipe Massa's Ferrari took the name of Santander to millions of people round the world.
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http://www.flagworld.com/news/2009/11/26/santander-to-back-massa-in-kart-races-in-brazil/

Santander, one of the partners of the Scuderia as of 2010 and whose logos will appear on Ferrari’s car and driver’s overall from next season, has been increasing his participation on Brazilian market and is currently the 4th biggest bank in the country. Massa is looking forward to starting a relationship previously supposed to begin only in 2010. “I’m glad to get this support from Santander. Lately I met President Emilio Botin twice and he is absolutely excited about the potential of the Brazilian market. I’m sure we are setting up a strong partnership”, Massa commented
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Fiat has sponsored Massa in a few things, but their exposure isn't great, their share in Brazilian market has not increased over the past several years, as I've shown you, and most people don't know that Ferrari belongs to Fiat, so the marketing connection has always been tenuous at best, limited to a few special editions here and there.

Santander, on the other hand, sponsors drivers specifically for market exposure. They sponsored McLaren and Hamilton specifically for market exposure in the UK (as stated in one of the articles above), and they are sponsoring Massa and keeping him specifically to target Brazil.

You are partially correct that money politics inside Ferrari helps assure Massa a spot on the team. But you are simply ignoring who has the money.
 
Santander is a bank? I always thought it was one of those nebulous "we exist for no other reason than to sponsor race teams" companies, like Repsol and Calsonic.
 
Tornado
Santander is a bank? I always thought it was one of those nebulous "we exist for no other reason than to sponsor race teams" companies, like Repsol and Calsonic.
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Yeah, they (I believe) still use Button in adverts with 2 other people. A golfer and a... Erm... Person who I am not aware of.
 
Tornado
Santander is a bank? I always thought it was one of those nebulous "we exist for no other reason than to sponsor race teams" companies, like Repsol and Calsonic.
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One of the largest in Europe IIRC.
 
Tornado
Santander is a bank? I always thought it was one of those nebulous "we exist for no other reason than to sponsor race teams" companies, like Repsol and Calsonic.
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Goodness no. That would be Red Bull.
 
Tornado
Santander is a bank? I always thought it was one of those nebulous "we exist for no other reason than to sponsor race teams" companies, like Repsol and Calsonic.
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Is there a joke I'm missing here? Both of those are real, serious companies that existed long before they famously sponsored racing cars.

legacyMACHINE
Or Telefonica...
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I really must be missing something here. Telefonica are one of the largest telecommunications operators in the world.
 
:lol:

Telefonica does exist, I see them operating in my vicinity (Spain). As for Red Bull, I'm with niky, I don't know a single person that drinks it ( don´t know any stats but here in Portugal it must rank waaaaayyyyy below any obscure brand of beer) but I sure see it owning TWO f1 teams, sponsoring Rallying, Sponsoring Loeb's Peugeot, and almost every other sporting event in the world. It is crazy.
 
I see more people drinking cheaper imitation versions of Red Bull than Red Bull itself. Same if you go on holiday to a European resort, the bars will advertise Red Bull and X drinks but it's never Red Bull, it's a cheap knock off.
 
Samus
I see more people drinking cheaper imitation versions of Red Bull than Red Bull itself. Same if you go on holiday to a European resort, the bars will advertise Red Bull and X drinks but it's never Red Bull, it's a cheap knock off.
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If Red Bull halved their prices, their sales would increase by about 1000%.

I only ever buy the Supermarket knock offs because you can get a 1 litre bottle for the price of a 250ml can of Red Bull. Even branded competitors like Monster, Rockstar and Relentless sell 500ml cans for less than the Red Bull 250ml variety.
 
Seismica
If Red Bull halved their prices, their sales would increase by about 1000%.

I only ever buy the Supermarket knock offs because you can get a 1 litre bottle for the price of a 250ml can of Red Bull. Even branded competitors like Monster, Rockstar and Relentless sell 500ml cans for less than the Red Bull 250ml variety.
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All true, but a Red Bull is very effective when you need to stay awake for a 1 1/2-hour boring drive. That's basically all I buy it for and like my dad always said, don't buy cheap tools.
 
Santander currently have some decent interest rates (or so I'm told) and are pretty big....

Repsol? Oh just that large Spanish oil company.

People really don't see Red Bull often? Maybe its just Manchester but vodka-Red Bulls are extremely popular in bars and nightclubs. £2 a pop in places like 5th Avenue (or at least last time I vaguely remember being in there a few years ago).

3 years ago I knew quite a lot of people (mainly programmers :lol:) who drunk Red Bull almost daily. Its only since decent competitors like Monster came about that they've lost their market dominance. Lucozade has tended to be a preferred sports drink.

Maybe its worth a thread talking about which sponsors people didn't realise were "real" but it feels just a bit too much like extra publicity and brand awareness :p

Hun200kmh
As for Red Bull, I'm with niky, I don't know a single person that drinks it
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Not to be rude or nasty but how many people do you know drink Kopparberg or Rekorderlig? Its kind of a young peoples thing although Red Bull has been around for a few decades now its only seemingly taken off the last 10 years especially in nightclubs as a cheap cocktail mixer.
 
I think we've went off course a bit...
 
Ardius
Not to be rude or nasty but how many people do you know drink Kopparberg or Rekorderlig? Its kind of a young peoples thing although Red Bull has been around for a few decades now its only seemingly taken off the last 10 years especially in nightclubs as a cheap cocktail mixer.
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I have adolescent kids you know :D

Anyway, I just checked what I could find about the portuguese market of bottled /canned non alcoholic drinks. And I got this (in millions of liters sold per year)


Ice Tea - 186

Cola - 115

Fruit Juice/Nectar - 73

Fruit drinks - 67

7Up/Sprite (and similar) - 37

Energy drinks - 3,6


So yeah, it surprises me how much money Red Bull can spend. Forget everything else and focus on owning two F1 teams ... and then yes, think of everything else :scared:



legacyMACHINE
I think we've went off course a bit...
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You are right, I'll stop here.
 
legacyMACHINE
I think we've went off course a bit...
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Not at all. I think it's highly relevant. We're assessing how effective motorsport (Including Vettel, Webber, Loeb etc.) is at marketing the Red Bull brand. We can use that to gauge how effective Massa's presence in Ferrari would be at marketing Fiat, or even Santander.

I don't know about you, but I opted not to buy a Red Bull branded computer mouse simply because it had Vettel on the box. I instead bought the same unbranded version which was a tad more expensive. I'm not a Vettel fan, but it is clear that their presence in F1 has the power to influence the customer at the point of sale. A Vettel fan would have bought that mouse for novelty value, not because they needed one.

If this is working for Ferrari, or one or two of their major sponsors, why should they switch drivers? He brings home plenty of valuable constructor's points and has proven in the past the play the part of no. 2 driver and take it in his stride, which keeps Alonso happy (Who in turn has a plethora of sponsors behind him that would go with him elsewhere). Financially, Massa is a very valuable asset.
 
Tornado
Santander is a bank? I always thought it was one of those nebulous "we exist for no other reason than to sponsor race teams" companies, like Repsol and Calsonic.
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Repsol is an oil producer. Calsonic are involved in the automotive indstry, but I have no idea what they do.
 
They make some of the best car air conditioners... in the world.

Seismica
If this is working for Ferrari, or one or two of their major sponsors, why should they switch drivers? He brings home plenty of valuable constructor's points and has proven in the past the play the part of no. 2 driver and take it in his stride, which keeps Alonso happy (Who in turn has a plethora of sponsors behind him that would go with him elsewhere). Financially, Massa is a very valuable asset.
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And best of all, keeping Alonso happy makes Santander deliriously so.

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Red Bull as a drink never caught on here. We have too many low-priced options. Probably as a "hip" thing, or in clubs and bars, it works, but as a day-to-day energy drink, there are a million better alternatives.

I can only assume that it is the Starbucks of energy drinks. Incredibly profitable simply because of brand awareness.

I'll stop complaining now. Red Bull sponsors air races, two successful F1 teams, that mad Pike's Peak car, and a million other high-adrenaline sports events that wouldn't exist without them. You go, Red Bull.

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All this ties back to Kobayashi in this way... Santander does have Japanese interests, but I wonder if Japanese interest in F1 would be enough to justify it.
 
prisonermonkeys
Repsol is an oil producer. Calsonic are involved in the automotive indstry, but I have no idea what they do.
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Then can someone please explain to me what "Team Spirit" is? They were on the Renault and some MotoGP bike for a while...

I really dont think Kobayashi will end up at Ferrari. He's currently away from the sport (Sort of. GT cars are a different playing field though...) and I feel like theres tons more moderately-decent drivers who have more sponsorship to bring.
 
hawkeye122
Then can someone please explain to me what "Team Spirit" is? They were on the Renault and some MotoGP bike for a while...
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Mild Seven. Becase there are rules that prevent the teams from showing cigarette and tobacco sponsorship, they are forced to use an alternate design. Renault used to use "Team Spirit" in the same way that Ferrari used a barcode design in place of Malboro.
 
Calsonic are a Japanese company who make numerous parts in vehicles. From exhaust systems to speedometers. They have been a sponsor for Kazuyoshi Hoshino who owns Impul (team and aftermarket company) since the late 80's, thats why you see the Calsonic Impul GTR in Super GT. Theyre Nissan's main parts supplier, and Nissan provides over 80% of their revenue. So basically a big partnership.
 
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Learned something new and it's not even 10 am!
 
prisonermonkeys
Mild Seven. Becase there are rules that prevent the teams from showing cigarette and tobacco sponsorship, they are forced to use an alternate design. Renault used to use "Team Spirit" in the same way that Ferrari used a barcode design in place of Malboro.
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Indeed, towards the end of the tobacco sponsor era more and more European countries were banning tobacco advertising so the teams with it had to change it for those races.

Jordan had a few changes from Benson & Hedges - Bitten Hisses, Bitten Heroes, Buzzing Hornets, Be On Edge. BAR had lots of changes from Lucky Strike, Run Free, Look Left/Look Right and just a barcode are some I remember.

There were lots more.
 
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