Kazunori Yamauchi on the Future of Gran Turismo Sounds

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jordan
  • 42 comments
  • 9,937 views
Jordan

Jordan

Administrator
Messages
24,975
United States
United States
Messages
GTP_Jordan
Messages
GTP_Jordan
This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Kazunori Yamauchi on the Future of Gran Turismo Sounds​

Although the situation has improved in recent iterations, for much of its history the Gran Turismo series has been heavily criticized for its engine sounds. During the PlayStation 2 and 3 eras, engine notes were often compared to “vacuum cleaners”; the result of synthesized loops that lacked the soul and mechanical violence of their real-world counterparts...
 
Limits to my audio system, come on.....not true imo.
Assetto Corsa M4 or M3 GTR sounds bold and pronounced in car mode. I wish Gran Turismo transmission was more center channel driven.
 
One of the bigger leaps is audio processing power in PS5 over PS4, it will allow for a lot more sound sources and complexity. They could allocate more resources to audio than the whole CPU processing power on PS4 just to audio if they could make the game for PS5 and upwards only. Power saving mode requirements and PS6 handheld might actually lower the potential peak performance they are allowed to push but still will be a huge upgrade over having to support PS4.

GT7 is solid for a PS4 title but it shows as going from base PS4 to PS5 Pro, there is not really a big difference. GT7 is kind of like GT 2000. GT8 has much more possibility to revamp the title in all areas like graphics, physics and audio pipeline. Even though 3D models will largely remain the same, the gameplay could take biggest leap forward and the ceiling of performance is so much higher, it is more down to development team than hardware limitation to continue progressing the game than previously which was always severely limited in what they could do. Only real limitation now is what can be done in terms of real-time lighting that will be much improved in future platforms but apart from that, it is very solid so they will likely support this platform well into the next decade and maybe even one after if they wanted to.

It is good to see they are keeping to realism. I think they should let sound systems decorate the audio by actually pushing the real sound correctly. Sound is in a way one of the most butchered mediums as so many devices have poor speakers that produce tinny audio.

In a way, sound you hear when you drive a car in real life with helmet and earplugs, you don't really hear the ferociousness of car and everything sounds muted but without, cars can sound spectacular. I think it is important for the World Series events, they improve the theatre the game provides through improvement of the next game. Long term I think it will have a big positive impact for the franchise if the level of the product is much better.

Hopefully next GT game, the V6 Mégane sounds closer to this onboard:



Also if they just update the tyre sounds, it will be sound like a completely different game.

They should use opportunity of GTA 6 release date being pushed back to release another GT title before then. I would prefer a vertical slice of a next-gen GT than any new update for GT7. It is kind of crazy that we are approaching towards end of this hardware generation without really any developers pushing capabilities much beyond the previous generation, might be only when PS6 starts launching, we get more games that couldn't be done on PS4. I know for a lot of games this doesn't really matter but for real driving simulators, this has a big impact of what can be achieved in terms of realism.
 
The jump in audio quality from GT6 to GT Sport was huge and very much welcomed.

Honestly for the vast majority of cars im happy with the sound. I dont expect GT7 with such a huge car list to have amazing detailed sound for all cars like ACC does.
Would I want better audio? Yes. Is the audio that bad? No and nowhere near PS3 era audio.
 
Even with "perfectly recorded" audio there would still be the problem to recreate/play it in different rooms as accurate as possible...
If you have bookshelf speakers you can experiment and move them closer or further away from walls, or further apart/closer to each other and the experience will be quite different because the audio/sound is reflected differently by the surfaces
 
My take away from all the flowery language is that he just wants to add more ancillary interior SFX.

I believe the problem is they probably design it primarily based on users with TV speakers. That, or that having higher quality audio (128kbps vs 384kbps or uncompressed etc) would be too resource intensive for a console? Either processing or storage? 🤷‍♂️

I think GT7 engine sounds are very accurate, more so than most other games i.e. the ones that make them artificially loud in certain ways etc. As if every car has a very loud exhaust from the factory. The problem is they lack a certain fidelity. The kind that sounds like it could damage my external speakers lol A tone/grittyness. If it sounds harsh on proper speakers, then it no doubt sounds like crap and could maybe even damage cheap little built-in TV speakers (which also lack a subwoofer)

So yea, I think it's just a compromise. PC sims with race cars do those better. It feels harsh and loud, like it would in real life. But I don't think anything else does real world street cars as good as GT7. They just need to have a higher bitrate or whatever. A handful of these cars I've owned in real life (and many more I've heard a lot in person) and they sound almost perfect. Like the R32 GTR; I had a certain Nismo exhaust on mine and it was very quiet and kinda boring in real life. A little vacuum cleaner-y. It sounded exactly like it does in the game. But people see videos of them with grape-fruit shooter exhausts and straight pipes and think that's how they should all sound. That's the Forza approach. Get one recording of the car with a crazy loud exhaust and that's how all versions of the car sound in game. The GT350R doesn't quite capture the harshness in game that it can have in real life. Also hard to tell if the exhaust valves were open or closed for recording etc. The "R" removes the resonators that are on the standard GT350. And it makes it sound much louder but also not as good IMO.

I've chased a newer GT3RS down some twisties for a bit and he must've had the exhaust valves opened or did something, cause it was very loud, but mostly it hit some specific resonance that was legit uncomfortable to listen to. I don't think it sounded great. I decided to stop following him because it was genuinely painful and hurting my brain. I suspect that is how the race cars sound, but those drivers are wearing helmets.

Of course, it wouldn't hurt for GT7 to get better at certain details like intake audio being different/louder depending on the intake mod of the car or the position of it relative to player. Cam switch overs like Honda's VTEC, Toyota's VVTL, or Nissan's NEOVVL being more noticeable depending on cam upgrade. Or more varied turbo noises (anti-surge compressor housings, open waste gate dumps, etc)
 
Last edited:
Mathaios_C
@Jordan hello, not a single Word or question about the next gran turismo title? No one said a word?
Click to expand...
While I wasn't there, let me tell you how questions about things SIE doesn't want to talk about go.

Interviewer: Will [feature] be in GT8, and...
SIE Handler: We're not taking questions on that. Please move on.

It's not especially productive, more so when you consider the limited time and the English-Japanese-Japanese-English nature means you have half what you do in a native language interview. And in round tables you get some absolutely bizarre stuff asked.

Still, there's more coming from the round-table.
 
I find it funny how he talks about audio in a way that’s like “we recorded it from the source as accurately as possible so now slap it in the game verbatim” 😂 Absolutely no shock engines sounded horrendous back then.
It’s great he understands now that even if you want to be as authentic as possible and faithful in recreating the original material, you have to design the sound accordingly. You can’t just leave it raw and expect it to work. I guess Kaz didn’t believe in sound design before GT Sport 😂
 
So, uh... was the media invited to PD's Tokyo HQ this time, or just the Fukuoka one?
 
Why does old Yama-san overcomplicate things? Provide us with different sound modes: raw and refined. And hell, with all the resources at your disposal, you can even break it down even further to offer in-cabin, engine, exhaust, or combination modes. Just do something in the sound department, because in 2025, the audio is laughable. Has it improved since PS3? Yes, but I don’t grade Yama-san based on what he was doing in 2003!
 
I imagine it may be a ton of work due to the number of cars ingame but it would be more realistic if they have the cars volume be in line to how it is IRL. Ex. A Zonda R should be very loud while a 60s VW Beetle is very quiet in comparison. The cars should also have intake sounds incorporated with camera view so if i'm driving Alfa 155 the intake should be very loud when I turn the camera to face the front of the car and for certain mid engine cars it should be louder on first person view such as the Carerra GT. These help with immersion and help driving the car feel more realistic. The external sounds should also be made to be slightly more "crisper" as some of the cars sound muffled and made into a stereo sound track as that makes the sound pop more with better sound systems.

The sounds as they currently are are okay for the most part as most of the cars are accurate just made weaker sounding when they shouldn't. The Roadster Shop Rampage shows they can make a car sound "Extreme" as that car sounds pretty crazy so i'm not sure why some such as the Ferrari FXXK sound really weak. The latest power pack and DLC cars sound pretty decent aswell so hopefully they continue making the cars sound clearer going forward.
 
Honestly, GT7’s sound design is already very good, it just needs a couple tweaks here and there

And I also appreciate Kaz’s commitment to keeping the sounds as natural as possible, embellishment can sound good but more often than not it’s more annoying than anything else
 
I must prefer GT's recent takes on realistic sound compared to competitors. I don't understand how so many gamers are okay horrificly fake sounds in a simulation-oriented game, Forza and Assetto being probably the two biggest examples. But even iRacing and other praised simulators sound obviously computer generated, not based on any actual recording. GT7 has its quirks, like the constant echo in replay mode, but ACE sounds laughable in comparison with excruiatingly loud and obnoxious racket in all views. I watched a comparison video recently of the NSX and ACE's VTEC engagement sounded like the damn exhaust fell off, completely ridiculous.
 
It's rare I'm disappointed in engine sounds any more. Though I'm not a massive stickler, "good enough" is fine with me in this area.

I will say the two recent tuned R34s we got this year are an exception to that - they both sound really damped stock. They sound fine when you upgrade the engine, so I'm not quite sure what happened there.
 
It’s good to see Yamauchi san recognize more improvements are needed. I also agree with his assessment that other titles perhaps go the “easy route” by faking the sounds to taste, rather than building physical audio models that generate the desired sound implicitly, depending on engine revs, load and other factors like installed mods. I’m confident PDs physical approach, with minor correction on top, will eventually yield another breakthrough.
 
When they hired the ex-Forza sound guy things definitely took a turn for the better. However there are instances where I think that improvements can still be made. The new Mines R34 is a bit 'meh' with the stock exhaust. The Volvo V40, no matter which exhaust you put on it, is disappointing. All of the RX-7's could still use some work to improve that unique Rotary sound. A good portion of the V8 powered cars are still not rumbly enough. Definitely room for improvement.

Also I have the transmission sounds turned up all the way in settings and still can't hear it.
 
I hope the engine sounds are going to be updated in GT8. I enjoy the cars' sound in GT7 but there is definitely some room for improvement, for example, the nervosity and rumble.
 
What exactly is that Ferrari in the image?

296 GT3, 488 GT3, 488 GTE, some other Ferrari Challenge car etc?
 
In my personal opinion, GT only lacks a lot of the mechanical grit, raw brutal clunks, and harsh tones that the race cars bring in real life. The street cars are actually pretty solid to me in regard to sound, truth be told. I always felt the race cars didn't sound brutal enough to me. In real life, especially inside, they sound like they're punishing you for not pushing hard enough. PD doesn't really capture that too much. The race cars sound a bit too tame compared to real life.

Again, just my opinion.
 
Last edited:
There has been a decent improvement in sound over the last two games but they're is still a long way to go.

A great example of poor reproduction is the Toyota GR010 HYBRID LMH. PD have a great convention with Toyota so surely have better opportunity to access the ideal sample. There are dozens of hours of real onboard footage on YouTube they could pull the sound from - Having said that I know nothing about game development!

Kaz can rabbit on about impressively he wants yet we see Assetto Corsa have super accurate sounds for so many of it's mods. If indie mod developers can do it then there is no excuse for PD.

I expect another reasonable step forward for GT8 and nowadays have more faith in them being able to take that step.
 
Saidur_Ali
One of the bigger leaps is audio processing power in PS5 over PS4, it will allow for a lot more sound sources and complexity. They could allocate more resources to audio than the whole CPU processing power on PS4 just to audio if they could make the game for PS5 and upwards only. Power saving mode requirements and PS6 handheld might actually lower the potential peak performance they are allowed to push but still will be a huge upgrade over having to support PS4.

GT7 is solid for a PS4 title but it shows as going from base PS4 to PS5 Pro, there is not really a big difference. GT7 is kind of like GT 2000. GT8 has much more possibility to revamp the title in all areas like graphics, physics and audio pipeline. Even though 3D models will largely remain the same, the gameplay could take biggest leap forward and the ceiling of performance is so much higher, it is more down to development team than hardware limitation to continue progressing the game than previously which was always severely limited in what they could do. Only real limitation now is what can be done in terms of real-time lighting that will be much improved in future platforms but apart from that, it is very solid so they will likely support this platform well into the next decade and maybe even one after if they wanted to.

It is good to see they are keeping to realism. I think they should let sound systems decorate the audio by actually pushing the real sound correctly. Sound is in a way one of the most butchered mediums as so many devices have poor speakers that produce tinny audio.

In a way, sound you hear when you drive a car in real life with helmet and earplugs, you don't really hear the ferociousness of car and everything sounds muted but without, cars can sound spectacular. I think it is important for the World Series events, they improve the theatre the game provides through improvement of the next game. Long term I think it will have a big positive impact for the franchise if the level of the product is much better.

Hopefully next GT game, the V6 Mégane sounds closer to this onboard:



Also if they just update the tyre sounds, it will be sound like a completely different game.

They should use opportunity of GTA 6 release date being pushed back to release another GT title before then. I would prefer a vertical slice of a next-gen GT than any new update for GT7. It is kind of crazy that we are approaching towards end of this hardware generation without really any developers pushing capabilities much beyond the previous generation, might be only when PS6 starts launching, we get more games that couldn't be done on PS4. I know for a lot of games this doesn't really matter but for real driving simulators, this has a big impact of what can be achieved in terms of realism.
Click to expand...

Yep, that Megane sounds crazy MADD
 
It's good to see the desire to improve. However, I really don't like the tire screeching. I understand it tries to provide some audible feedback for the driving, but IMO, it's very intrusive, fake, and unlinke what I hear in the real world or motorsports videos. For me, this is the most needed audio improvement in GT8...
 
I run a pair of Arendal 1528 monitor 8 through my system which digs very low go 22 Hz in my room. And it does make difference for the car sounds,

Mostly i play gt7 around 75-80 db.


I think pd has take a huge step in the sound department and are now in pretty good replacement but also room for improvments in some aspects.

If they can take even futher step in gt8 we are in for big treat👍.

I dont see gt7 getting any sound improvments so late in its life.
 
Seikenfreak
But people see videos of them with grape-fruit shooter exhausts and straight pipes and think that's how they should all sound.
Click to expand...
This part also raises another question: the quality of the microphone used for the recording. More often than not they're something small and very limited in their capabilities, and everything sounds raw and harsh when the microphone is simply overwhelmed by the sound.

For example, I've attended a lot of rallycross races with the Supercar class (which the GT7 Gr.B cars are more or less based on) and they sound ferocious with 2l engines putting out 600+ bhp... or so you'd think. When the light turns green and the full grid rushes to the first corner at wide open throttle the wastegate chirps and transmission noises almost drown the actual engine and exhaust sounds. I also drove my own car without the rear muffler for years, it only had the cat and the front muffler, the rear one being replaced by a piece of straight pipe after a repair gone wrong. It wasn't loud, in fact it was barely different from stock, and it passed the inspection every year with no questions asked. Then again it's a turbo which naturally breaks up the exhaust pulses but still.

The bottom line being, many cars that are thought to be loud may not be it after all when heard in person. In fact many race cars have to be pretty quiet or they have no business being on the grid at all, many tracks have very strict noise limits.
 
Back