Kazunori Yamauchi Wants Gran Turismo to “Natively Support More Steering Wheels”

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I've said it elsewhere I think but as someone earlier touched on, there's the issue of replicating what is real vs what offers "feedback" on total car behavior. As my Elise doesn't have power steering and it definitely has amazing steering feel (this is also going to be tied to tire size/alignment) but also it's not like.. "communicating" the way or as much as I think people imagine it does.

I think a vocal part of the community, probably the PC sim people or the snobs, wants all that "feedback" because they think that's real or something.
At least I have said it on multiple occasions. The feedback coming though the actual steering wheel in a real car is nearly non-existant when you think of it, there's little more than the self aligning torque and some vibrations when understeering as the tyre loses and gains grip in quick succession but that's about it. Sure, there are tons of things to be felt in a car but they're almost all in the "seat of the pants" feel, not in the steering.

Take crossing railroad tracks for example. It sends a massive jolt through the entire car but steering rack forces don't exist as both sides do it at the same time. Even turning onto a driveway and crossing the kerb one wheel at a time does very nearly nothing, I've specifically tried it for this reason and there's barely any movement in the wheel. You don't feel wheelspin (at least in a RWD car), rough tarmac, anything like that through the actual wheel as they don't produce any steering forces. But people indeed think that all that should be there and the FFB is automatically bad if it doesn't happen. Well it doesn't happen because it shouldn't in the first place.
 
At least I have said it on multiple occasions. The feedback coming though the actual steering wheel in a real car is nearly non-existant when you think of it, there's little more than the self aligning torque and some vibrations when understeering as the tyre loses and gains grip in quick succession but that's about it. Sure, there are tons of things to be felt in a car but they're almost all in the "seat of the pants" feel, not in the steering.

Take crossing railroad tracks for example. It sends a massive jolt through the entire car but steering rack forces don't exist as both sides do it at the same time. Even turning onto a driveway and crossing the kerb one wheel at a time does very nearly nothing, I've specifically tried it for this reason and there's barely any movement in the wheel. You don't feel wheelspin (at least in a RWD car), rough tarmac, anything like that through the actual wheel as they don't produce any steering forces. But people indeed think that all that should be there and the FFB is automatically bad if it doesn't happen. Well it doesn't happen because it shouldn't in the first place.
The only real noteworthy feeling I've discovered with this car-- I assume because the lack of power steering, is related to the camber of the road and the tires. It's really hard to explain but simple in concept. The road I drive on has a lot of camber change, and when one side of the suspension is getting a vastly different amount of load and alignment, the steering wheel will actually pull to a certain side. It wants to steer into the dip. That's the closest thing to force feedback I've felt, but I can't exactly recall if that's reflected in a game because race tracks are typically pretty flat/wide. A rally game would be a better test. The way the inside of a small turn will dip down and up. Or I guess you could also feel it with the center crown of a road.

I imagine if you were to hit a tall sausage curb on the inside of a turn, in a car without power steering, it would probably pull the wheel to that side.
 
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Well it doesn't happen because it shouldn't in the first place.
Indeed. But when you’re trying to replicate/emulate the feeling of driving a car and the only tool you have in your arsenal is essentially the steering wheel, then it becomes obvious you need more or better yet different cues of feedback in order to approximate the feeling.

So no, I would say the game developers are correct in doing what they’re doing in wanting to provide more information to the player through the steering wheel. How much and in what ways can be highly subjective however and it’s a valid reason to like a game more than another just because of how it does FFB, which already happens. I personally much prefer a realistic yet immersive FFB experience with some embellishments like additional effects in the form of road texture, gear shift jolts, etc. than an overly bland one.
 
Even if it released on PC, which is unlikely, the likelihood of the game being presented in a format which would allow modding is zero.
Never say never.

Plenty of titles that don't natively support modding are still very much modable on PC.

As an example, Project Cars, Project Cars 2, and AMS2 were never built to be modded, yet all three have mods available, and that's content mods.

Stuff like FFB can be sorted via a simple Notepad edit of the relevant file, and pretty much every PC title can be modded this way, PC and PC2 had pretty much all the FFB issues fixed via this route. Add in the ability to add dash overlays via SimHub and change the visuals via Reshade and a huge amount can be done even with titles that don't support mods officially.

I just had the car out last Saturday, slightly cooler temps, and I could feel the front tires start to understeer with the tiniest/subtle feeling in the wheel when I reached a certain amount of steering input. It was so subtle I wasn't 100% sure that's what I was feeling but I think it was. So it isn't this like big sensation in the wheel. The wheel didn't suddenly go completely light or whatever like these sims do. But again, that's also going to come down to tire specifics and alignment, front end weight of the car etc.
It can be subtle, but it can also be very sudden and noticeable, as you note its very much down to a range of factors. Rear and mid-engined road cars will push into understeer quite gradually on a constant or slightly increasing throttle, particularly on the road. Get to a track (with the associated increase in surface grip) and throw in a track-specific set-up, semi or full slicks, and a rapid reduction of steering weight is very much real. In (very) simple terms as the forces involved increase, the reduction will be far more noticeable, particularly with slicks.

On the road you are going to find it most noticeable on a FWD car with a reasonable amount of power and an open-diff.
It is a funny problem that other sims, even the most hardcore ones don't have, you ain't driving a Samba Bus or a Toyota ambulance in Iracing or Le Mans Ultimate, those devs don't have to worry about that sort of stuff
True (apart from those with Truck Racing, and AC with, well, everything), but most of these do also allow you to map a 'per-car' FFB gain setting.

Take crossing railroad tracks for example. It sends a massive jolt through the entire car but steering rack forces don't exist as both sides do it at the same time. Even turning onto a driveway and crossing the kerb one wheel at a time does very nearly nothing, I've specifically tried it for this reason and there's barely any movement in the wheel. You don't feel wheelspin (at least in a RWD car), rough tarmac, anything like that through the actual wheel as they don't produce any steering forces. But people indeed think that all that should be there and the FFB is automatically bad if it doesn't happen. Well it doesn't happen because it shouldn't in the first place.
Differences between road and track/race cars need to be taken into account here.

Road cars are specifically engineered to remove as much of the Noise, Vibration, and Harshness as possible, and that includes via the steering. All the steering and suspension bushings do a fair amount of that, swap that out for race spec bushings and/or rose joints and it's very, very different. Ditto the stiffness of the suspension set-up itself. Even on the road, switching the damper setting on my i30 N from Standard to Sport+ (which is only really usable on a track) has a noticeable effect on what can be felt, not just via the whole car, but also the steering.

You are of course right that a lot of SoP feel can be added into the FFB, but again, this should be able to be dialled in or out as required by the user (as not everyone has a tactile set-up rig), but it's also true to steering forces can be more detailed that many assume based on road car expereince (as manufactrurers try and remove as much of it as possible).
 
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I am concerned about potential imbalances in multiplayer gaming experiences. Specifically, the disparity in hardware configurations, such as the use of multi-monitor setups on PC platforms, could create an uneven playing field for individuals utilizing standard single-monitor configurations. This situation raises questions about fairness in competitive environments.
 
Ambitious but PD are already well behind other games as far as FFB goes, even on the wheels that have their own branding on them.

Maybe time to make some changes before stretching their staff thinner.

I am concerned about potential imbalances in multiplayer gaming experiences. Specifically, the disparity in hardware configurations, such as the use of multi-monitor setups on PC platforms, could create an uneven playing field for individuals utilizing standard single-monitor configurations. This situation raises questions about fairness in competitive environments.

Do you have a better example as the best camera to use as far as vision goes is chase cam which only requires one screen.
 
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I am concerned about potential imbalances in multiplayer gaming experiences. Specifically, the disparity in hardware configurations, such as the use of multi-monitor setups on PC platforms, could create an uneven playing field for individuals utilizing standard single-monitor configurations. This situation raises questions about fairness in competitive environments.
The best monitor(s), sim rig, wheel base, pedals, cpu, gpu etc increases the immersion, but it won't make you faster
 
I am concerned about potential imbalances in multiplayer gaming experiences. Specifically, the disparity in hardware configurations, such as the use of multi-monitor setups on PC platforms, could create an uneven playing field for individuals utilizing standard single-monitor configurations. This situation raises questions about fairness in competitive environments.
Why would you want triples when we have VR?
 
Why would you want triples when we have VR?
They're two completely different experiences. VR isn't the be all end all for everyone, lest they get nauseous easily or not want the separation from reality or dislike the poor quality/resolution in VR.

I would pick triples over VR 100/100 times.
 
The best monitor(s), sim rig, wheel base, pedals, cpu, gpu etc increases the immersion, but it won't make you faster
I think being able to see a wider portion of what's around you, wether by using VR or multi-screen is a bonus, not only for immersion, but for perception too, and in consequence, for performance.
 
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