Kazunori Yamauchi Wants Gran Turismo to “Natively Support More Steering Wheels”

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This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Kazunori Yamauchi Wants Gran Turismo to “Natively Support More Steering Wheels”​

The sim-racing hardware landscape has undergone a massive transformation in the last few years. What was once a niche market dominated by a few key players has exploded into a multi-million dollar industry, with brands like Fanatec, Logitech, Thrustmaster, Nacon, and Moza fighting for space on sim-racer’s rigs...
 
Essentially, he’s correct in what he says. Ideally, each car would have its own predetermined FFB parameters and they would automatically enable upon selecting it. Current direct drive wheels have the capability for per car settings. It’s on the game developer to integrate the functionality, and as of right now nobody has done it. GT7 provides 1 FFB profile(for supported wheels) no matter which car you drive. Not a great experience imo.

I really hope they’re planning on rethinking how they do FFB in GT8 and go the extra mile by offering per car FFB settings, automatically.
 
Per car and per wheel model; this is the key.

"By focusing on native support, Polyphony ensures that when a player plugs in a high-end Direct Drive wheel, the game “recognizes” the hardware’s torque capabilities and adjusts the output to match the specific vehicle’s rack weight and road feel automatically"
 
I wonder how much of the “per car basis”, PD is already doing? I run a DD1 with very high torque values, and upon driving the 458 GT3 and the 296 GT3 back to back on the Nurburgring, there were very noticeable differences between the two cars in regards to FFB cues. The FFB for the 458 was noticeably stronger with sharper details, and the FFB for the 296, although detailed, was noticeably more muted. This didn’t surprise me as I’ve encountered it before when comparing other cars, but it is very interesting as the differences were even more stark - when driving on PD’s best FFB model to date.

Since the only thing I can attribute this to is different chassis characteristics between the two, it makes me marvel at how much detail PD goes into modeling said different suspension and chassis characteristics.

Unless they screwed it up completely and modeled the 296 to have more of an electronic aided steering profile akin to a modern Porsche GT3 cup car
 
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Neat, but meaningless if PS compatibility is out of the question for most hardware manufacturers

I would also like to see actual button mapping being supported, I have the Fanatec DD Pro Base without the GT Wheel rim, got a Formula v2.5 rim instead, the initial mapping was a bit confusing, but I got it all where I wanted it, recently however, I was wondering if the Advanced Paddle Module works on GT7, but if it did it would be a complete nightmare to map so I've been holding off on purchasing it (I also want it for LMU and perhaps iRacing if I find the use for it there)
 
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CinnamonOD
Neat, but meaningless if PS compatibility is out of the question for most hardware manufacturers

I would also like to see actual button mapping being supported, I have the Fanatec DD Pro Base without the GT Wheel rim, got a Formula v2.5 rim instead, the initial mapping was a bit confusing, but I got it all where I wanted it, recently however, I was wondering if the Advanced Paddle Module works on GT7, but if it did it would be a complete nightmare to map so I've been holding off on purchasing it (I also want it for LMU and perhaps iRacing if I find the use for it there)
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I play both GT and LMU and I have a Fanatec DD+ using the advanced paddle modules and yes you can map it for both games. It's extremely helpful in LMU
 
That's that same kaz-san who said wheels are too expensive? :D
 
Its good to see him saying this stuff. I’ve been seeing complaints on the fanatec boards for about 2 years now how this function or that would only be possible if the developer instituted the fanatec sdk. Sooo…hopefully..finally?!

I personally think that I should be able to raise the in game ffb to 10, and that GT7 should take that is we have a dd+, with 15nm to work with in total, and the user has said they are ok with using all 15 of those nm’s when the choices and situations call for it. Now if I’m driving a pickup truck with a sloppy wheel it should feel soft, even a little loose and likely max out around 7 or 8 nm’s(or whatever max for that vehicle would be). Swap to a gt3 or whatever and the wheel and forces should adjust appropriately with a tighter wheel and more appropriate NM’s delivered based on the car’s profile. And so on and so forth. Its boggling how in 2025 it’s not like this and that ffb of 10 in game still means make everything really heavy.

Anyway, it was great to see the strides made with spec3 in the fanatec dd/ full force arena and I hope articles like this foreshadow more improvements, and refinements, going forward. That said, since spec3 the game is fun to drive again and that might have been one of the best xmas presents of the year.
 
Wheel weight and feel definitely varies from car to car as it is. At least on the DD Clubsport + or whatever the heck it is that I have. I think I leave in-game "Max Wheel Torque" around 7 or 8 and some cars are fairly light and don't have much feel and then like a Group C car feels very heavy to the point where I might turn it down from 8 to 7. And then other cars I bump it back up.

I guess my complaint there is that sometimes it doesn't quite make sense. Like yea, a Group C car I would think about be heavy and detailed. But then I'll pop into some other old race car that I would think would be similar and its not. And then I'll get into some random street car and it feels great, etc etc.

I do think the FFB is better than the PC sim people give it credit for. It's much more subtle than the PC stuff. I genuinely think they are afraid of people hurting themselves with a high torque wheel (which is dumb, IMO) but I wish there was a bit more detail. Or consistent detail. Because, again, some cars I feel like I can feel curbs. And then other cars I can't.
 
Seikenfreak
Wheel weight and feel definitely varies from car to car as it is. At least on the DD Clubsport + or whatever the heck it is that I have. I think I leave in-game "Max Wheel Torque" around 7 or 8 and some cars are fairly light and don't have much feel and then like a Group C car feels very heavy to the point where I might turn it down from 8 to 7. And then other cars I bump it back up.

I guess my complaint there is that sometimes it doesn't quite make sense. Like yea, a Group C car I would think about be heavy and detailed. But then I'll pop into some other old race car that I would think would be similar and its not. And then I'll get into some random street car and it feels great, etc etc.

I do think the FFB is better than the PC sim people give it credit for. It's much more subtle than the PC stuff. I genuinely think they are afraid of people hurting themselves with a high torque wheel (which is dumb, IMO) but I wish there was a bit more detail. Or consistent detail. Because, again, some cars I feel like I can feel curbs. And then other cars I can't.
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I'd believe the level of downforce of the cars you choose result in some being easier to steer than others, since downforce translates to a heavier car at speed
 
Per wheel base FFB fine-tuning is nice for sure, but I don't see why he has to restrict button mapping so much, since obviously they aren't gonna create official button layouts for every interchangeable wheel rim that people use on supported wheel bases. Just let players have real function to button mapping like every other game, instead of the awkward button to function mapping.

odeepaanh
Which button mapping issue? I’m confused
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If you use any other wheel rim than the official wheel rims (e.g. DD Pro rim and DD Extreme rim), chances are some of your buttons, axes, and rotaries are locked to preset functionality and cannot be remapped, because the official wheel rims don't have them.
 
As long as fanatec doesn’t bring out a new wheel for gt8 with ffb per car I’m happy otherwise it’s getting an expensive hobby!

But great points made
 
Nathaniel_Wu
Per wheel base FFB fine-tuning is nice for sure, but I don't see why he has to restrict button mapping so much, since obviously they aren't gonna create official button layouts for every interchangeable wheel rim that people use on supported wheel bases. Just let players have real function to button mapping like every other game, instead of the awkward button to function mapping.


If you use any other wheel rim than the official wheel rims (e.g. DD Pro rim and DD Extreme rim), chances are some of your buttons, axes, and rotaries are locked to preset functionality and cannot be remapped, because the official wheel rims don't have them.
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Button mapping is a mess. Unless you have a Gran Turismo wheel, you’re left with a botched steering wheel with nearly half its features not recognized or supported by the game.
 
Is he joking? I have the DD extreme like in the picture and after nearly 2 years it is still not fully supported , they just added some basic FFB in spec 3 update its ridiculous.
 
:banghead: If they start adding GAP to the PSVR2 headset, it will be a great step forward so as not to make fun of people who like GT7 and endurance.
 
If Yamauchi and his team released the game on PC, and allowed modding support, the modding community would do it themselves. No joke. They would literally save money on implementing a per car force feedback setting because that's what modders could do, and would likely do it better. Why? Because that's what the modding community already does. Many times the modding community has made a game that was released in a terrible state nearly unplayable, to a smooth gameplay experience, before the actual devs did. It seems the force feedback is a weak point with polyphony and even though Yamauchi is looking to drastically improve that, it would be more cost effective to allow modders to do it instead by releasing it on another platform, PC, and get a whole new community of players, which could likely double their revenue. I'm also not just a PC Fanboy either. I've owned every PlayStation except the ps5 since the PS1, and I've played Gran Turismo since the first installment. It wasn't until the Xbox 360 that I got both systems. I now have a gaming PC that I can relive my PS1 and and PS2 experiences on. I don't want a PS5 because I'd only play one game on it.. and that would be Gran Turismo. I know many others are in the same situation I'm in. A PC that is specced way higher than a PS5, but also wants to play Gran Turismo without investing into another additional system and hardware you already have (because it's not compatible on PlayStation) on top of the game itself. I'd have two separate Sim rigs.. Please just release it on PC already. Us serious gamers have the means to put together or buy a system that will handle it.
 
deeznutz406
If Yamauchi and his team released the game on PC, and allowed modding support, the modding community would do it themselves. No joke. They would literally save money on implementing a per car force feedback setting because that's what modders could do, and would likely do it better. Why? Because that's what the modding community already does. Many times the modding community has made a game that was released in a terrible state nearly unplayable, to a smooth gameplay experience, before the actual devs did. It seems the force feedback is a weak point with polyphony and even though Yamauchi is looking to drastically improve that, it would be more cost effective to allow modders to do it instead by releasing it on another platform, PC, and get a whole new community of players, which could likely double their revenue. I'm also not just a PC Fanboy either. I've owned every PlayStation except the ps5 since the PS1, and I've played Gran Turismo since the first installment. It wasn't until the Xbox 360 that I got both systems. I now have a gaming PC that I can relive my PS1 and and PS2 experiences on. I don't want a PS5 because I'd only play one game on it.. and that would be Gran Turismo. I know many others are in the same situation I'm in. A PC that is specced way higher than a PS5, but also wants to play Gran Turismo without investing into another additional system and hardware you already have (because it's not compatible on PlayStation) on top of the game itself. I'd have two separate Sim rigs.. Please just release it on PC already. Us serious gamers have the means to put together or buy a system that will handle it.
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Even if it released on PC, which is unlikely, the likelihood of the game being presented in a format which would allow modding is zero.
 
MagpieRacer
Even if it released on PC, which is unlikely, the likelihood of the game being presented in a format which would allow modding is zero.
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That is just so unfortunate. It's a big reason why small developers are making their own racing games because large corporations stick to what has worked and is profitable. What's worked in the past for years won't always work though, and I see that happening sooner than later with the way the industry is going especially If the next console isn't going to be launched until 2030 (based on RAM shortages) then we have four more years with the PS5 while PC hardware will get better every year. By 2030, we'll have PC'S that are 6-8 times faster than a PS5 pro allowing developers to push their graphics and technology that much farther than they would be able to on consoles. As is, a PC with a 9800X3D and a 5090 is already 300 to 500% faster than a PS5 pro. Gran Turismo has always been more graphically impressive less glitchy and smoother than the rest IMO and I believe that companies that start developing on PC now will be able to outdo polyphony in these areas. I'm not a programmer but I understand some basics. If we look at what Bethesda did with Oblivion remastered, they used a game engine within a game engine. Couldn't one theoretically take that strategy and create a virtual machine within your pc that makes the hardware run identical regardless of system? Kind of like an emulator, but more advanced. Instead of translating instructions and code, it would replicate the same instructions regardless of hardware, essentially making Gran Turismo run on its own OS which could potentially allow polyphony and Sony to operate on PC without Microsoft being involved - I imagine it as when you boot Gran Turismo 5, you're met with a PlayStation logo and a PlayStation sign in. "While using this software, Windows features will be unavailable." If steam can create their own devices and their own OS, and can even implement that on PC, why can't Sony? After all, the PlayStation is just a computer that's been specifically designed for one purpose with only one hardware configuration. However, I do know that's been a strength of polyphony's, only dealing with one hardware set, and perfecting the game to its absolute limit of hardware limitations. Anyway I just wanted to post this to bring some food for thought to the table. But at the end of the day, what works is what's going to work and what doesn't can hurt or even destroy the company.
 
It’s funny to see some people want per car per wheel FFB… because if PD ended by doing this, you’ll see the same people say : The FFB is too light on [put a name of a car]… and we feel nothing… and this is **** etc…

While it will be the real behavior of the car…

EDIT : just for clarifying a point : adding artificial vibration and FFB effect like ACC or LMU did, is NOT realism…
 
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eykxas
It’s funny to see some people want per car per wheel FFB… because if PD ended by doing this, you’ll see the same people say : The FFB is too light on [put a name of a car]… and we feel nothing… and this is **** etc…

While it will be the real behavior of the car…

EDIT : just for clarifying a point : adding artificial vibration and FFB effect like ACC or LMU did, is NOT realism…
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Although what you said has truth in it, it also shows that you can’t replicate the realism of a car just by making the wheel behave similarly or even identical to the real thing and expect it work. The reason is obvious. We’re not actually in a car driving it and experiencing G forces. The game developer has to cleverly try to adapt the feeling of losing grip through the wheel amongst of myriad other things. There’s a lot of nuance here.

I’d still say per car FFB is the way to go but we don’t know how it’d work in practice since nobody has done it. Perhaps, some player agency may be required in the end.
 
All I have is the crummy G29 wheel...and yet the FF feels markedly different from car to car. Even cars that have similar downforce characteristics feel quite a lot different in terms of the FF. Cars like the Radical, Mono and X-Bow for instance feel fairly distinct from one another to me. While a car like the F3500 is miles different from those (as you'd expect of course). There's definitely something happening that lends individuality to the FF from car to car aside from just downforce.

If I were to take a guess, I'd suggest that they've used some of the individual car's suspension parameters to apply a sort of basic, "gamey" approximation of the different car's characteristics and it works better in some cars than in others. It's an imperfect solution, but it does give the cars a bit of their own personality.
 
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CinnamonOD
I'd believe the level of downforce of the cars you choose result in some being easier to steer than others, since downforce translates to a heavier car at speed
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Actually, the comment above reminded me of specifics: I would've thought downforce was the attributing factor, but then you go get in an F1 car (one of the old or 90s ones I think) and theres like no weight to the wheel. Almost no "feedback". Seems bizarre to me.

They also don't exactly replicate the feeling of steering getting heavy/light in relation to speed in non-power steering car.

It's complicated. I've said it elsewhere I think but as someone earlier touched on, there's the issue of replicating what is real vs what offers "feedback" on total car behavior. As my Elise doesn't have power steering and it definitely has amazing steering feel (this is also going to be tied to tire size/alignment) but also it's not like.. "communicating" the way or as much as I think people imagine it does.

I think a vocal part of the community, probably the PC sim people or the snobs, wants all that "feedback" because they think that's real or something. Or they personally like how iRacing feels and the devs insist it's the best and some people just take their word for it and champion the game. I just had the car out last Saturday, slightly cooler temps, and I could feel the front tires start to understeer with the tiniest/subtle feeling in the wheel when I reached a certain amount of steering input. It was so subtle I wasn't 100% sure that's what I was feeling but I think it was. So it isn't this like big sensation in the wheel. The wheel didn't suddenly go completely light or whatever like these sims do. But again, that's also going to come down to tire specifics and alignment, front end weight of the car etc.

I really don't expect PD to go through hundreds of cars and dial this in. And they obviously aren't out test driving every single car on track at speed to compare it to. They have to just approximate it somehow.
 
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It is a funny problem that other sims, even the most hardcore ones don't have, you ain't driving a Samba Bus or a Toyota ambulance in Iracing or Le Mans Ultimate, those devs don't have to worry about that sort of stuff
 
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