King Of The Hill

[McLaren]

Let's put it this way.. which one would you believe in case of Carrera GT: Walter röhrl, factory driver, or some magazine's driver who has driven the car only for x amount of miles for day or two?

Not even in the same situation. Walter, after driving the Carrera GT & GT2, gave a personal review of both cars. Walter, also has a large history of racing.

The factory driver who claimed to have driven the GT-R in 7:38 has apparently, no name from what I've seen, no racing history brought up, and not to mention, the questioning about why the head engineer said 2 different things. Plus the fact that Nissan made an actual claim that was not even remotely matched by pro. test drivers unlike Porsche who only made a prediction (who turned out to be correct).

And if ZR-1 would be like 430 Scuderia, it wouldn't have softer suspension or more weight. it would have less weight, more spartan interior and even rougher ride.

I meant in the fact that the 430 Scuderia is a sporty, track version of the F430 like the ZR-1 will be with the Z06.

Note* My mistake earlier. The Z06 is 8 seconds ahead of the GT-R. The 12 seconds is the difference between Nissan's claim & an actual review.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd personally put the Z06 closer to the Scuderia, given its C6.R roots. However, the ZR1 is just as relevant, given the C6.R body parts and similar power levels.

Both sharing similar spots equally, just like the 997T and the GT3? No wai!!!

I think in the end I'd opt for the Z06, but thats just me. That being said, if I had the money, I'd have the ZR1 in a heartbeat... Screw everything else at the $100K or less bracket...

 

[Joey D]

Note* My mistake earlier. The Z06 is 8 seconds ahead of the GT-R. The 12 seconds is the difference between Nissan's claim & an actual review.

Since I don't feel like digging through that GT-R thread, what you are saying is the GT-R didn't run 7:38 but rather a 7:50?

Hmmm...for a $100k I don't really know if I would take a ZR-1. Sure it's fast and how some sweet looking rims, but I do not really think it's a cool car ala Top Gear rules. I think I would rather have a BMW M6, sure it's not as fast but hot women will want to sleep with me because I would have a BMW and for some reason women like that. In truth though I like the M6's technology over the ZR-1 pure brute force.

 

[Jim Prower]

What women have you met?

Fah, never mind. You don't use a car to pick up girls, anyway. You have a car like that to test if they still like you or not afterwards.

Then you marry them and they make you get a Minivan.

 

[Joey D]

Humour...get a sense of it.

 

[Leonidae]

and in the end, it's always the driver that makes a car fast or slow..

 

[McLaren]

and in the end, it's always the driver that makes a car fast or slow..

A driver can only make the car so fast. Why is there such a large gap between Nissan's claim, and an actual review. And it's not because the Nissan driver must have been god or the reviewer sucking at driving.

 

[Jim Prower]

Humour...get a sense of it.

Apparently, you don't get my humor. That WAS supposed to be funny.

But now I'm offended. Now I'm not funny? Is that it?

But enough off-topic. Back to the ZR-1. That goes for you GT-R debaters, too.

 

[YSSMAN]

So, assuming the ZR1 gets stuck in a comparo with a 599 and a GT2, who ends up taking the cake by days end?

Personally speaking, its a tough decision. I love Porsche just as much as the Corvette in most cases, and many of you know that I always rate them second only to the Corvette. Same with Ferrari, easily my favorite of the Italian pure-breeds. Thing is, that Corvette hurdle is hard to get over...

I'm interested in the specs and the final pricing, but if that Corvette can deliver the performance on 599-levels for 1/3 of the price, well, I'd bet that it would fare quite well.

 

[Jim Prower]

Well, 620+ outmuscles the 599 by a measure, and Insurance-rating on this car wouldnt' surprise me. Then again, at 100K, It probably doesn't matter that much.

The GT2 might handle better. It's a GT3 with turbos, after all. (I think.) However, I still dont' know...could the blown monster outrun the GT2 on the right track? and The 599 is no slouch.

Will monster power win the day? Or Euro Finesse? All I know is that the 'Vette tuners just got a lot of orders canceled. Until, of course, someone starts to play with a ZR1...

 

[exigeracer]

So, assuming the ZR1 gets stuck in a comparo with a 599 and a GT2, who ends up taking the cake by days end?

Personally speaking, its a tough decision. I love Porsche just as much as the Corvette in most cases, and many of you know that I always rate them second only to the Corvette. Same with Ferrari, easily my favorite of the Italian pure-breeds. Thing is, that Corvette hurdle is hard to get over...

Who's doing the test? These are purist sportscars, but I can see other things like livability being taken into consideration with certain testers. If we're talking trackability and actual pure driving experience, then I think I know who would be on top and who would be lower down. I'd rank it P-car, F-car and then Z-car last. For a driver's car, bar no other distractions, the Corvette simply is too supple and uninvolving as the Porsche. The Corvette is an excellent car, but back to back with something like a 997, and the disconnected feeling starts to show more and more on the Corvette.

Great car, just not legendary.

If it was up to me, and I had to buy one, I'd toss the Ferrari out the window for price alone, then drive both cars. I think the dynamics of the Porsche would give it the win for character alone.

 

[McLaren]

So, assuming the ZR1 gets stuck in a comparo with a 599 and a GT2, who ends up taking the cake by days end?

Personally speaking, its a tough decision. I love Porsche just as much as the Corvette in most cases, and many of you know that I always rate them second only to the Corvette. Same with Ferrari, easily my favorite of the Italian pure-breeds. Thing is, that Corvette hurdle is hard to get over...

I'm interested in the specs and the final pricing, but if that Corvette can deliver the performance on 599-levels for 1/3 of the price, well, I'd bet that it would fare quite well.

Well, in honest terms, I'm saying Porsche. A car lapping the 'Ring as fast as the Carrera GT is quite an amazing feat. Power will definately go to the ZR-1, but then again, Porsche isn't about raw power like us Americans.

As for the Ferrari, I wouldn't include it in the comparison. Sure, it's the flagship car with the Enzo engine, but at the end of the day, we're talking about a car Ferrari made to be a Grand Tourer, a car made to rival the Murcielago LP640 & SLR McLaren, supercars that are not necessarily the fastest (though the LP640 will surprise you ), but still not really competing with the likes of the track class (430 Scuderia, 911 GT3/RS/2, etc.) or the big supercars (Enzo, Carrera GT, Zonda F).

 

[Leonidae]

Who's doing the test? These are purist sportscars, but I can see other things like livability being taken into consideration with certain testers. If we're talking trackability and actual pure driving experience, then I think I know who would be on top and who would be lower down. I'd rank it P-car, F-car and then Z-car last. For a driver's car, bar no other distractions, the Corvette simply is too supple and uninvolving as the Porsche. The Corvette is an excellent car, but back to back with something like a 997, and the disconnected feeling starts to show more and more on the Corvette.

Great car, just not legendary.

If it was up to me, and I had to buy one, I'd toss the Ferrari out the window for price alone, then drive both cars. I think the dynamics of the Porsche would give it the win for character alone.

I agree with most of it, but I'd leave Porsche out of the equation. and between Ferrari and ZR-1..? no contest, wailing V12 anytime, with great looks and feeling of mystique.

 

[YSSMAN]

I was thinking the Porsche would take first, then the Vette, and probably the Ferrari last (someone has to be...). Performance wise, I'd actually estimate that all would be pretty shockingly close by days end, and in all honesty, its going to come down to preferences in style, and of course, what your bank account can handle.

 

[Onikaze]

The 599 is always reported to be scary fast, where did this idea that it isn't a 600+ hp Ferrari with all the superfast goodies included inside, come from?

Sheer desireability, I think the 599 is a beautiful car, so money no object, it wins.

GT2's scare the **** out of me just reading about them, definitely a favorite car in a video game, but to live with one would make me a bit nervous, even if it's less likely to bite your head off than a 70's Turbo, you know the car is still a bit like a horse that resents the saddle.

ZR1, well, hot damn, $100,000 for what sounds to be supercar performance? Go GM!

In testing, before the price is factored in, I suspect the GT2 will take the lead in track tests/driveability..unless GM pulls an amazing coup, which I don't quite expect, the Ferrari in "omg, I love this car" reviews, and the ZR1 will probably be the "holy ****, what the hell just happened?" performance star.

 

[-Fred-]

Thing is, most people looking for a Ferrari or a Porsche don't really give a crap and a half about some "plastic bodied prehistoric suspended V8 powered American car", no matter the price difference... That's where the Corvettes of the past have failed, and that's where this one will also fail. Too wide, too low, too rough, not subtle enough for Europe, possibly ditto for Asia. Even the base C6, which according to every US tester, rides smoothly and drives easily, has been found to be way too rough riding and handling for all the European review's I've read.

Credit to GM for making something utterly and insanely fast, but it won't sell outside North America... and lord knows that's what GM wants.

 

[ND4SPD]

ZR1 owners are going to love the clear screen fogging up on them.

 

[McLaren]

Sheer desireability, I think the 599 is a beautiful car, so money no object, it wins.

While the 599 is most certainly very fast, it's a car built to run next to the SLR & LP640. Cars that are built for speed, but also as driver's cars.

 

[Joey D]

Credit to GM for making something utterly and insanely fast, but it won't sell outside North America... and lord knows that's what GM wants.

Agreed, but I'm guessing it will sell quite well here in America.

 

[TopHat]

Looking at that picture, I cant believe how well the C6 design has worn. Way better looking than the C5.

 

[JCE]

Yuck, this thing is hideous upclose. It looks borderline tuner/ricer to me.

Oh, and the C5 wins because of one tiny detail...POPUP LIGHTS FTW!

 

[Joey D]

Pop up lights are worthless on modern cars.

 

[JCE]

That's your opinion. Popup lights are COOL, thats the main point I was trying to make. You can still have your XENON gas bulbs and such with popup lights. Infact they can be better than fixed lights because you don't always have them open for road debris and such to damage them.

 

[McLaren]

Pop up lights might be worthless these days, but let's be serious.

Everyone knows a ton of the world's most iconic sports/super cars had pop ups.

 

[JCE]

But popup lights aren't worthless. You can stuff the same technology in them, and they reduce the number of cracks/shatters AND they are cool to boot! What's so worthless about that?

 

[ND4SPD]

Pop up lights might be worthless these days, but let's be serious.

Everyone knows a ton of the world's most iconic sports/super cars had pop ups.

Your damn right.
*(Points towards avatar.)

 

[-Fred-]

Agreed, but I'm guessing it will sell quite well here in America.

Of course it will, look at how well the C5 Z06 has sold, and how well the current Z06 is selling... That still doesn't change the fact it will utterly fail elsewhere in the world, where GM doesn't want it to. Hell they could stick a Chevrolet badge on a 599 GTB and it still wouldn't sell in Europe, simply because of the lack of pedigree of said badge... Porsche's got multiple Le Mans wins to their credit, Ferrari's got F1 championships (including 5 straight cheapskate cheater ones but that's another story) and sports cars history... GM's is... "uhh, the winningest left turning for nearly 3 hours boring race brand in history, oh wait no we've got 5 GTS/GT1 titles at Le Mans but that doesn't matter right?"

They can come up with anything they want, a Corvette just won't outsell a Ferrari or Porsche outside North America, ever... and it's a shame.

 

[Azuremen]

But popup lights aren't worthless. You can stuff the same technology in them, and they reduce the number of cracks/shatters AND they are cool to boot! What's so worthless about that?

The fact that they weigh more, add moving parts to a system that does not need, add additional drag to the car when they are on, among other things. And that point about protecting the head lights from road debris is a fairly mute point. Modern housings are built from very durable plastics that, unlike glass, will not succumb to rocks as easily.

They are best left in the 80's era of the car, being a retro item. The end.

On what Fred is saying regarding over seas sales, it is the truth. Much like how the Japanese had to come up with a different marque to sell higher end cars, Chevrolet suffers from the same badge issues. That, and the Corvette is the anti-thesis of a European sports car. Front mounted, high displacement, lower revving push road engine.

 

[Joey D]

That's your opinion. Popup lights are COOL, thats the main point I was trying to make. You can still have your XENON gas bulbs and such with popup lights. Infact they can be better than fixed lights because you don't always have them open for road debris and such to damage them.

They can be cool but that does not mean they are any good, others have stated the reason.

 

[Jim Prower]

How did we get onto popup/hideaway headlamps?