Lack of grip (this game is a joke)

[TwinturboCH]

Sorry, no offence intended, but I'm willing to bet my house that I have a more intricate knowledge of the subject than 'Trackpaduser'.


It's "no offense", no offense... And,contrary to your professed professional experience, tires sliding on the pavement are a symptom of under steer, not a cause.

The cause is not determined by "are they sliding", but "why are they sliding?"....

• Too much speed?
• Incorrect size, inflation, temperature of tire?
• Non optimized suspension geometry?

As well as other variables in setup, track and corner conditions, etc.

Edit: No, it's OFFENCE in ENGLISH, it's only spelt offense in American English

And no, understeer is the correct description of the front tyres sliding accross the tarmac, so technically it's this:

• Too much speed?
• Incorrect size, inflation, temperature of tire?
• Non optimized suspension geometry?

WHICH LEADS TO

Lack of grip

Which leads to:

Front Tyres sliding (understeer)



So you are correct in one sense, that the factors you have listed cause understeer, but that is only because they cause front end grip to be reduced, which in turn is what causes the understeer.

Therefore;
Lack of front end grip causes understeer.

What is causing the lack of front grip is entirely another matter and is a whole new subject which I have said nothing about, so therefore I haven't saidanything incorrect.

Edit after you posted that copied and pasted passage:
How they decide to define understeer is their business. In this case we are talking about the handling of a car on track, so what I am saying is correct, I am using the terminology in the same way that every other race car driver/team out there uses them.

 

[Aces & Eights]

i just think the handling could be better

The handling of any car is fine period. Its how you tune it and handle it. Try the brakes before the corner and accelerate exiting the corner.

 

[Hastatus]

"Lack of grip (this game is a joke)"

All I could think when I read this: OP is a joke and he needs to get a grip and learn the principles of traction in the real world.

 

[Host_Killer]

WOW... What a joke you are for starting a thread like this. Obviously, you don't have the car setup correctly. Maybe you should do some research on setups and stop your whining.

Unbecoming!

 

[Mafz]

WOW... What a joke you are for starting a thread like this. Obviously, you don't have the car setup correctly. Maybe you should do some research on setups and stop your whining.

Unbecoming!

Either that or he/she don't know how to drive.

 

[Host_Killer]

A car will understeer at any speed, even 10mph, if you ask it to turn tighter than the tyres can cope with.

Plus, Beemers tend to have a slight bias towards understeer anyway, it's something to do with BMW not thinking all their customers are drift kings or something and not wanting people to be scared of tail happy cars.

WOW... That is incorrect on EVERY level... The BMW M3 is actually know for being one of, if not the MOST well balanced car made.

Kiddies need to stick to what they know - Mario Kart.

 

[Andy-LK]

Lotus Elise(s) = oversteer tendancy
RUF BTR, RGT, & CTR "yellowbird" = oversteer tendancy
Ferrari Enzo = oversteer tendancy
In regards to the R34 Skyline, AWD cars can have terrible understeer if not being driven properly(see 3-2 in the GT Academy for a perfect example).

The "all cars in GT5 under steer" statement is only true if you are changing the factory settings of the car(s), and/or "over tuning" them by adding too much power/taking too much weight away..... I keep most of my cars in "stock trim" and this may be the reason why I don't experience this problem.

Agree with what :tup:I have highlighted in bold

My poor wording for "all cars in Gt under steer" what I should of said was I only drive in cockpit mode , in that mode I think the cars drive close to the real thing or as good as they can for a Sim ( only my opinion) but when I have tried to race a standard car I have used 3 person mode and I just cant get the steering right in my eyes they mostly tend to under steer mainly I feel because of the lack of speed sensation , so I'm approaching the corners to fast , only it feels really slow in this mode, hence another reason I don't buy standard cars.

Also like yourself I do not overly tune my cars if at all, a better set of tyres and a adjustable gearbox mostly.

Apologies for my poor wording in my previous post 👍

Foot note:


TwinturboCH = Beemers tend to have a slight bias towards understeer anyway, you are joking now right ?

 

[TwinturboCH]

Agree with what :tup:I have highlighted in bold

My poor wording for "all cars in Gt under steer" what I should of said was I only drive in cockpit mode , in that mode I think the cars drive close to the real thing or as good as they can for a Sim ( only my opinion) but when I have tried to race a standard car I have used 3 person mode and I just cant get the steering right in my eyes they mostly tend to under steer mainly I feel because of the lack of speed sensation , so I'm approaching the corners to fast , only it feels really slow in this mode, hence another reason I don't buy standard cars.

Also like yourself I do not overly tune my cars if at all, a better set of tyres and a adjustable gearbox mostly.

Apologies for my poor wording in my previous post 👍

You should be using 'bumper cam' if there is no cockpit view The 3rd person view is TERRIBLE for 'feeling' the car. There's a reason people call it the 'noob view'.

 

[Andy-LK]

You should be using 'bumper cam' if there is no cockpit view The 3rd person view is TERRIBLE for 'feeling' the car. There's a reason people call it the 'noob view'.

Yes your right, personally Id sooner just stick to cockpit mode, bumper cam is ok for fast lap times but I get no enjoyment from it at all.

 

[TwinturboCH]

Yes your right, personally Id sooner just stick to cockpit mode, bumper cam is ok for fast lap times but I get no enjoyment from it at all.

I know what you mean. In bumper cam you don't get to soak up the quality of the car details, I'd love to be able to use it so that I can watch my cars as I drive, but unfortunately, the way the car drives in the 3rd person makes it impossible to drive on the limit.

 

[grrlpurple]

It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut...

Well, maybe not, but it's clear that front wheel drive cars will have a tendency to understeer because you are asking a lot of the front tyres. Not only are they driving the car but they are steering it too and grip is not infinitely available.

Rear wheel drive cars have a tendency to oversteer because the power of the driving wheels is at the lightest end of the car (unless of course the engine is in the rear or you stick a concrete slab in the boot).

Of course there is no hard and fast rule because the ratio of weight balance can alter the natural tendency of the load upon either front or rear tyres.

It's simple really though... know your car and its limits, know your abilities and your limits and learn the track - if you drive GT like you would an arcade racing game you will fly into every corner too hot and have horrendous understeer in almost every car

 

[ghsnu]

You think GT5 has lack of grip? Try TDU2! You literally slide whenever you turn the wheel!


But if you want grip, install racing soft tires-best grip you can get.

 

[TwinturboCH]

WOW... That is incorrect on EVERY level... The BMW M3 is actually know for being one of, if not the MOST well balanced car made.

Kiddies need to stick to what they know - Mario Kart.

I've driven every variant of E36 and E46 there is, and the basic setup is geared towards understeer, even the BMW technician I spoke to agreed that there was a slight bias towards understeer, especially in the standard versions (non-CSL etc). I actually tested the E46 M3 and E46 M3 CSL back-to-back at Rockingham Motor Speedway in England. Tell me to stick to Mariokart if you wish, but I think I'll actually stick to being paid to race

 

[Andy-LK]

I know what you mean. In bumper cam you don't get to soak up the quality of the car details, I'd love to be able to use it so that I can watch my cars as I drive, but unfortunately, the way the car drives in the 3rd person makes it impossible to drive on the limit.

Again your right, its a shame as most racers out there lead themselves very well to the 3rd person mode , Grid-Shift-F1/2010 etc only GT never has been , cars in this mode with GT always to me seem very slow and very rigid a bit like if you were to push a toy car around the front room.

 

[scca_ziptie]

I've driven every variant of E36 and E46 there is, and the basic setup is geared towards understeer, even the BMW technician I spoke to agreed that there was a slight bias towards understeer, especially in the standard versions (non-CSL etc). I actually tested the E46 M3 and E46 M3 CSL back-to-back at Rockingham Motor Speedway in England. Tell me to stick to Mariokart if you wish, but I think I'll actually stick to being paid to race

👍

I have a 2006 M3(e46) Competition package that is 100% stock(excluding tires) and I will agree that @ speed - it is more understeer oriented than oversteer oriented. That being said, if you "give her the onion" aka full throttle; while having decent steering input it will want to rotate on you rather quickly...... But that is just down to driving over the limit, rather than the car's natural tendancy.

 

[vwtechnician]

does anyone else feel the same way about the lack of grip on gt5 ive got a fair few cars now & all tuned & set quite well but i cant understand why there is so little grip for instance an m3 on racing slicks understeering at 60 mph i find a little dissapointing for a game which has taken 5 years to make! PD intsead making pointless updates like stopping car sharing on cars over a million credits try sort the things out that really matter.

Honestly it's probably your tune. I think I have every M3 in the game, all pretty much set up the same way and they all roll out. I can try and give you some advice on the tune if you like, which M3 is it and is it completely modded?

All cars in GT5 under steer, even more noticeable if you drive in 3rd person mode, in fact some cars are just pain unraceable because of this, golf Mk1- skyline r34 carbon oh man what am I doing there are loads.

Again, to me the golf mk1 is a little beast. LSD has a lot to do with it, too, especially in a FWD car.

 

[Andy-LK]

Honestly it's probably your tune. I think I have every M3 in the game, all pretty much set up the same way and they all roll out. I can try and give you some advice on the tune if you like, which M3 is it and is it completely modded?



Again, to me the golf mk1 is a little beast. LSD has a lot to do with it, too, especially in a FWD car.

Yeah I agree , and I'm sure if I could drive it in cockpit mode Id get on with it just fine, but me a 3rd person view just don't mix not on Gt anyways.

 

[JJ72]

WOW... That is incorrect on EVERY level... The BMW M3 is actually know for being one of, if not the MOST well balanced car made.

Kiddies need to stick to what they know - Mario Kart.

But he is right.

The M3 is well balanced compare to other sedans and road cars, but it still basically does turn-in understeer, which is cancelled by throttle on oversteer, and ends up being a "fun" handling car. However it terms of absolute balance for track driving it still has a bit too much understeer tendency.

The normal M3 and the CSL are no different, I've driven them against Mercs in a press event

 

[vwtechnician]

But he is right.

The M3 is well balanced compare to other sedans and road cars, but it still basically does turn-in understeer, which is cancelled by throttle on oversteer, and ends up being a "fun" handling car. However it terms of absolute balance for track driving it still has a bit too much understeer tendency.

The normal M3 and the CSL are no different, I've driven them against Mercs in a press event

Two things I did with the CSL to make it handle awesome. 1) 1.0 front and 1.6 rear camber. The rear camber allows it to get the power to the ground when exiting a corner instead of doing smokey circles. 2) 0.40 rear toe and -0.05 front toe. The toe in at the rear keeps the car nice and stable through all the high speed stuff and under heavy braking. The slight toe out at the front creates better turn in. I find set up like this pretty much all the Bimmers are great handling, incredibly neutral cars to drive. Very composed stable and fast.

 

[ac3h01e]

i love how these Civic noobs want to fully upgrade cars...lol they have no understanding of tuning they just want the most BHP they can get & run every car on Racing tyres...noobs....learn to play the game.....i bet you buy a car and the first thing you do is add all the upgrades you can...lol, before you even test drive it and see what it actually needs to be better

Putting ....lol at the end of all your sentences makes you look like a huge tard, just saying.

 

[Bigbazz]

The opposite to this thread is the GT5 thread on the iRacing forums, where people called GT5 a joke in part for what they percieve is "too much grip" and unrealistic physics. I agree that GT games have always felt a bit "understeery" but lack of grip isnt one thing GT5 has.

In my opinion, of course.

 

[dude2106]

When you modify a car with new tires you need to change things on the suspension. You can't just slap racing slicks on a car and think it will drive like a dream. On normal tires it will oversteer when you power on, so the rear suspension will have a setting that gives more grip then the rear tires. So when the car don't have enough power to break traction on the rear tires it will start to understeer, because the rear end is glued to the road, where the front is not as much. That is the reason. You just need to fiddle with the suspension and everything will be fine.

 

[TrackpadUser]

Sorry, no offence intended, but I'm willing to bet my house that I have a more intricate knowledge of the subject than 'Trackpaduser'.

No offense taken at all. For the simple reason that you took your info from real-life documentation.

My info simply comes from in-game experience in both GT5 and LFS.

 

[TeddyBear-420]

blame it on your tuning skills & trying to drive every car with racing tires!!! i said it many times....STOP puting every upgrade.... try sport packages!!!

 

[scca_ziptie]

blame it on your tuning skills & trying to drive every car with racing tires!!! i said it many times....STOP puting every upgrade.... try sport packages!!!

This..... Or drive em stock(the way they were intended).

 

[Khaddar]

It's "no offense", no offense...

Only in American. In English it's spelt (or perhaps you'd be happier with "spelled") "offence".

 

[TwinturboCH]

Only in American. In English it's spelt (or perhaps you'd be happier with "spelled") "offence".

Hahaha so I was right.

 

[ape_ck]

A car will understeer at any speed, even 10mph, if you ask it to turn tighter than the tyres can cope with.

Plus, Beemers tend to have a slight bias towards understeer anyway, it's something to do with BMW not thinking all their customers are drift kings or something and not wanting people to be scared of tail happy cars.

Truth.

I think E36 BMWs were prone to snap oversteer - at least I recall reading some articles.

Manufacturers will commonly engineer a little bit of understeer into the cars.

 

[Poppins]

Did you try and tune the suspension?

Usually the toe out causes the understeer.

Lol, toe out causes oversteer not understeer.

And if you have any clue as how to tune a car you can make anything handle like a dream.

 

[ElSecundo]

Understeer is caused by the front tyres sliding, it's a fact. Explain to me how a car can understeer WITHOUT the front tyres sliding....

I'm afraid it's the other way around, and tires eventually slide as a result of understeer. One of the biggest misconceptions about under and oversteer is that there isn't any under or oversteer until the tires start to slide. The slide is only the symptom, but understeer and oversteer occur long before the limit of adhesion is reached.

So what you're saying about the BMW understeering at 10 mph is absolutely correct. In steady-state conditions, it understeers at 5 mph, 10 mph, 150 mph, and everywhere in between. I can still be induced to oversteer at any of those speeds depending on brake and throttle input, but in steady-state conditions, the car understeers.