Let's Communicate with PD/Kaz (and Stop Complaining!!)

  • Thread starter Thread starter cmpinberkeley
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cmpinberkeley

cmpinberkeley

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GTP_DarthDrift
Hey guys. Being new to the GT culture and not knowing much about the market, the key stakeholders or PD, I have a simple and perhaps naïve suggestion. Rather than us continually complaining about what’s wrong with GT5 and hoping that PD will actually sift through our forum to determine what they REALLY should be doing, why don’t we as a group formally request/petition PD. I don’t know if PD even cares what our group says relative to their overall target market, but we are certainly a core, long-term customer group for the series.

Before I go on, I’ll first say that I think that this is a very good game/simulator that has the potential to be great (IMHO) with a few minor revisions/additions.

So my suggestion is… Why don’t we appoint ~3 members of this forum as representatives to formally communicate with PD in whatever method is deemed most effective. Specifically, I suggest that we seek direct interaction with Kaz Yamauchi himself and clearly and concisely express what we want.

Perhaps this would include the primary ~3 things that we would like to see plus an additional ~3 things that would be nice to have. For example, we could say that we want: 1) Private rooms/servers with fully customizable options, 2) Optional boost/rubber band effect, 3) Optional damage/tire wear/fuel useage. Nice to have would be things like 4) optional penalties, 5) statistics, 6) online replays. We know/believe that they are working on some of these things, but wouldn’t it be a shame if they are not or they got them wrong. At least this way, we will know we have been heard, and in my ideal world, PD might appoint our representatives as an advisory/consultative resource.

So, this thread is to initiate action on our part to convey a clear message to PD/Yamauchi about what we want. I believe we CAN influence what gets done, but we have to do it the right way and we have to do it NOW. The game is in development and they need time. (Note, this is NOT the place to debate what needs to be changed in the game. There are plenty of threads on that and we can have a process for agreeing what gets communicated.)

WHAT DO YOU THINK GUYS? TAKE ACTION OR NOT? Frankly, I don’t see why we wouldn’t. In fact, I will volunteer to play a role in this if nobody else does… or maybe I'm just dreaming.
 
the Interceptor
I think it's worth a try, but it has to be done properly.
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Exactly what I thought. You will need some profesional-like people from this website to portray a message to PD, and then let us put our usernames or PSN names on it and send it over to PD in an email.
 
I think what you'd need to do is pick some of the very long time members of this site (including mods and admins) as messengers, then start like a huge wave of properly made surveys on this website, gather and filter the results down to a "to do-list" and transmit that to Polyphony, including an explanation on how it was done (saying that it's not just some weird thoughts gathered by one fan). If Polyphony would be interested in that, they'd at least respond that the suggestions have been acknowledged. Anything beyond would be a major success, but I seriously doubt they'd open a discussion with fans. So what we'd need to do is make the discussion here and distill a list of the results.
 
the Interceptor
I think what you'd need to do is pick some of the very long time members of this site (including mods and admins) as messengers, then start like a huge wave of properly made surveys on this website, gather and filter the results down to a "to do-list" and transmit that to Polyphony, including an explanation on how it was done (saying that it's not just some weird thoughts gathered by one fan). If Polyphony would be interested in that, they'd at least respond that the suggestions have been acknowledged. Anything beyond would be a major success, but I seriously doubt they'd open a discussion with fans. So what we'd need to do is make the discussion here and distill a list of the results.
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Or Maybe ask PD to make some polls and stuff about some ideas they have , GTP has a large population from all over the world and represents a good place to get feedback on ideas they would like to implement.
 
I would say the best way to contact them is from an article or news stand point, say that we doing an online write up of the game, and then switch the tables on them. After the interview (which is not a bad idea to have on the site anyways), use the contact info to connect with PD to help develop the game. Or during the interview, bring up a "question" along the lines of "One of the comments we get at an unbelievable rate here at GT Planet is 'I love GT5P but I wish PD would change....', how would the members of GTP go about expressing their ideas or contacting the development team?"
 
Great idea. I think it's either confirmed or heavily rumored that PD and perhaps Kaz himself keep an eye on these forums. If we could find people willing and able to fill the role of sifting through all the cruft and conducting surveys, then you could start posting them in a read-only sub-forum that Polyphony would almost surely notice. If we could get contact info directly all the better but this wouldn't be a bad way to start IMO.
 
The problem in this matter is to canalize vital information. If anybody can say anything about what he wants for Gran Turismo, they'll face the impossible task to do everything for everyone. That's why I think this has to be heavily organized from the beginning to gain proper statemens that are clear to understand, doable in terms of technical and time limitations, and represent the wishes of many.
 
This is a fantastic idea, and getting the mods and admins (maybe even Jordan himself, that is if he has an opinion, I don't want to speak for him or anything) to coordinate everything is the BEST idea possible, because they have A LOT of respect and knowledge, and I personally think PD is more likely to listen to them than just some random person.
 
It couldn't hurt, however I second the statement that this needs to be done with care, or much of the impact will be lost. I used to be a game developer, and most of the user feedback we got was complete crap -- and the enthusiasts, in general, were the worst of the lot. In most cases, this was because they were so passionate about the game/genre that they couldn't even recognize that their viewpoint was heavily colored by bias. By way of example, read any of the class forums for World of Warcraft (or any MMORPG for that matter). Every class feels that they are at a disadvantage relative to others, and that the power of other classes needs to be reduced to keep them competitive.

In the racing/driving game genre, this might manifest itself by an insistence that certain cars be present, or perform better than they currently do, or demands that there be more/fewer oval tracks, and so on.

You'll be much more successful and convincing if you identify problems rather than solutions. Don't just claim that a problem exists, but back it up with whatever proof you can produce. Polls and petitions are generally completely useless as they only represent such a tiny fraction of the user base as to be meaningless. Ultimatums are similarly pointless.

At the end of the day, respect that there are two factors driving the creators:
1) They wish to create a game that they can be proud of (artistic merit)
2) They want the game to sell well (business case)

Keep these two factors in mind, and recognize that the game is their creation, not yours, and you'll be much more successful.
 
Vaxen
It couldn't hurt, however I second the statement that this needs to be done with care, or much of the impact will be lost. I used to be a game developer, and most of the user feedback we got was complete crap -- and the enthusiasts, in general, were the worst of the lot. In most cases, this was because they were so passionate about the game/genre that they couldn't even recognize that their viewpoint was heavily colored by bias. By way of example, read any of the class forums for World of Warcraft (or any MMORPG for that matter). Every class feels that they are at a disadvantage relative to others, and that the power of other classes needs to be reduced to keep them competitive.

In the racing/driving game genre, this might manifest itself by an insistence that certain cars be present, or perform better than they currently do, or demands that there be more/fewer oval tracks, and so on.

You'll be much more successful and convincing if you identify problems rather than solutions. Don't just claim that a problem exists, but back it up with whatever proof you can produce. Polls and petitions are generally completely useless as they only represent such a tiny fraction of the user base as to be meaningless. Ultimatums are similarly pointless.

At the end of the day, respect that there are two factors driving the creators:
1) They wish to create a game that they can be proud of (artistic merit)
2) They want the game to sell well (business case)

Keep these two factors in mind, and recognize that the game is their creation, not yours, and you'll be much more successful.
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+1 👍

Luke
 
Vaxen
It couldn't hurt, however I second the statement that this needs to be done with care, or much of the impact will be lost.
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👍👍

Vaxen
I used to be a game developer, and most of the user feedback we got was complete crap -- and the enthusiasts, in general, were the worst of the lot. In most cases, this was because they were so passionate about the game/genre that they couldn't even recognize that their viewpoint was heavily colored by bias. By way of example, read any of the class forums for World of Warcraft (or any MMORPG for that matter). Every class feels that they are at a disadvantage relative to others, and that the power of other classes needs to be reduced to keep them competitive.
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That's why I think the information needs to be sorted and gathered. I'd even suggest that questions like how to model a specific car in the game should be left entirely in Polyphonys hands, and that suggestions from the fanbase only should cover more basic things.
 
Great idea, but the biggest problem is lack of a acceptable communication channel. I'm not 100% certain how much attention PD pays to fan forums (there must be hundreds of them), but on a certain other 'official' site we do at least get Beta Testers who post their thoughts and contribute to the odd discussion. It's a very small link, but a link nevertheless.

I find the activity on this forum to be rather high and very intelligent and I've got no idea about how many active members there are, but I feel that there are people here who do have links to other communities and any such 'votes' or 'ideas' that we work on will have much greater weight if cross-referenced with other sites. Wayne from GT5Net, France's premier GT forum pops in for discussion from time to time, and I'm sure that there are other people who post in native language sites about GT as well.

The problem with open communication is that Kazunori or PD are very secretive about their baby and you can see this by how little they give away about the final game during interviews. It would be much easier for us if PD were open to things they were already doing so we could add further input rather than taking stabs in the dark at something they might be doing already.

I can envision polls about featuring Cosworth Sierras, the Bugatti Veyron, Porsche, Lamborghini etc, but for all we know, PD may already be working on this so when we approach them with our research results, we look like tools.

If an avenue of communication could be opened up however, posting on this forum would explode.

👍
 
It's a good idea, but remember, something like this is ultimately up to Jordan.

Also, SCE has it's own official forum, while this one is unofficial. I remember Jordan posting a while back that Sony has no ability to regulate what is posted here or what goes on because they don't own it.

I find it unlikely that Sony, who is wary enough of unofficial forums as it is, would allow an open line of communication between this site and PD. I would imagine that the amount of red tape that would needed to be cut through would be huge, if Sony would even consider it at all.

+1 for a great idea, though. 👍
 
Good idea. I think I will do some investigation to see how we can communicate with PD and get some input from the forums. There is a lot of rumnbling out here that PD needs to hear.
 
Ever since I started console racing, I have been amazed at the apparent lack of communication between game developers & their customers. Online forums like GTplanet would seem to represent an invaluable market research tool for PD & Sony - the kind of resource that other industries would (& do) pay a lot of money to access.

I don't know why PD wouldn't want to listen to their avid fans, the only question being: is the view of an avid fan necessarily the most important one when you are actually trying to sell to a much wider audience of non-committed customers?
 
I think that we should stay away from requesting cars ...etc cause this is something we can't do anything about. Maybe certain features, menu layouts, or options that we would like or want
 
You also have to remember that PD already has a plan in place. Back in the GT3 days we were told that PD does not take any ideas from the public for legal reasons. Someone could come back to them and say " you used my ideas, now pay me " If anything, it will be a long and delicate road. But if it works, the payoff to all the fans would be huge. I do feel that PD does look in on these kind of forms as it would be crazy not to keep a finger on the pulse of their industry. We just have to keep our suggestions in the real world and not have a lot of wish ideas that world make PD think that this is a waste of their time.
 
Well ... let's see it the other way around. Maybe PD knows exactly what to do and already is on the way, but we simply don't know because there is very little to no information flow from PD to the outside. If we knew what was going on inside those walls, we probably wouldn't have this discussion at all. Maybe we just need to ask PD to give us some more information. If they make absolutely clear that it's a one way street so they won't be flodded by fan requests, they might accept it.
 
the Interceptor
Well ... let's see it the other way around. Maybe PD knows exactly what to do and already is on the way, but we simply don't know because there is very little to no information flow from PD to the outside. If we knew what was going on inside those walls, we probably wouldn't have this discussion at all. Maybe we just need to ask PD to give us some more information. If they make absolutely clear that it's a one way street, so they won't be flodded by fan requests, they might accept it.
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I think this might have a better chance of working
 
To be honest M8's..

They are reading this forum, and thats a fact, because i know they have changed a thing, that was really annoing, with split screens, and i suggested the change, with ideas of how to, and they did short after in the next update, so Ya, i belive they do read this forum, among others.. PD /Sony Is a big company, the probably have guy's/girl's sitting and doing nothing els but reading stuff from the users..

I would if i was them, and and with this long lived forum, that have all the versions to discues, well this is probably the best forum to be in, when it comes to gt5p and gt5..

yeps they reads this..

but they will also read the idea your are about too launch... ;)

My 2 cent's on the matter.. ;)

ps.. It could be lots of work for no need.. ;o)
 
Flagmo-T
They are reading this forum, and thats a fact, because i know they have changed a thing, that was really annoing, with split screens, and i suggested the change, with ideas of how to, and they did short after in the next update,
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What was this "annoying thing with split screens"? And how did they change it? How does that prove they read this forum and take the ideas from it? How do you know it wasn't just a problem they already knew about and we're going to fix anyway?
 
There is a person that does read this forum, but honestly, this is by far not organized enough to get some vital info out of it. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to critisize this forum, as it is organized better than many others. It's just in the structure of a forum in general that makes it hard to scan for what's good, and what's not.

And that's why I think that if you want to make an actual impact, you need to organize the bucketloads of information first.
 
Ardius
What was this "annoying thing with split screens"? And how did they change it? How does that prove they read this forum and take the ideas from it? How do you know it wasn't just a problem they already knew about and we're going to fix anyway?
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you are absolutely right, how could I know, well let's put it this way..

I made a thread yelling out, that splitscreen as it was at first, wasn't too thoughted through.. the split times was in the middle of the screen, and alwasy coming up, just before you pick your braking point, so basicly it ruins the idea of driving with splittscreen, they fixed it right after, in the next update..

but as you wrote, maybe they had already that fixed in the update they send out just after, they released the SpecII version.. and in the mean time, i was
writing the thread..

I choose too belive that they do read it.. so :)

we will never know dude.. ;)

Dream Extreme
Flagmo-T
 
Ya I'm not sure if anyone from PD comes here, you would think being the largest and longest running GT community, well I think it is isn't it? PD would be interested in what it's user base has to say.

In comparison, the guys at CM are on the GRiD forum all time, I'm not sure how much they actually take to heart what members say, but the point is they do pass along info and try to communicate when certain issues crop up, although they aren't doing such a good job with their online multiplayer issues. :sly:

I'd be curious to see what the response is from PD to any sort of email or request sent to them in this manner. I have my own suspicions as to what it will be but will keep that to myself until it actually happens.

Great idea though and most definitely someone from the 'higher ups' at GTP must be involved for it to have any credibility if it's being sent through the GTP community as a body.
 
Sa!!yz~Rage
Ya I'm not sure if anyone from PD comes here, you would think being the largest and longest running GT community, well I think it is isn't it? PD would be interested in what it's user base has to say.
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PD does read this forum, at the US release someone from PD responded on Playstation.Blog that they watch GTPlanet ... 💡
Just theres maybe a bit to much of information and demands here already for a clear view of whats really important, dunno.
Also keep in mind GT5 will most probably have a very different structure than Prologue has(regarding tuning, career, options,etc online etc..), just like the previous games :) 👍

*edit: id be surprised and very disappointed if you cant chose what car/pp/tyres you want and just go for it wherever you want in the full game. they might dont even have this unholy(!) pp system judging by previous prologue /concept...( i loved Geneva for its arcadeyness btw 👍 )
 
Great idea, but getting in contact with Polyphony on this matter might be difficult. And it's not guaranteed that they'll listen.
 

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