Let's talk about redundant/useless car tech

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Justin
Backseat Monitors: If you have ever been on a trip with kids that is over an hour this is an essential.
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Jalopnik
When I was a kid I looked out the window on road trips. If I complained, my dad spanked me. If your spoiled brats won't shut up, don't buy them an expensive DVD player. Instead, hit them. It's free and as an added bonus, it builds character.
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That is all.
 
think i agree with all of those!
as convenient as it is to have no use for skill or judgement, or a minor discomfort to be put upon a driver, heaven forbid, they are pretty useless... but they are still novel ideas for those with lives too dramatic to press a third pedal, or read a map :lol:
 
Toronado
Those are common signs of long use. I don't think we can know what DSGs will face as they wear out (or even how fast they will) because the oldest relatively cheap car that had them common was the Golf V (I think).
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My GTI was built in January (I think) of 2006, so it is probably one of the oldest DSG vehicles on the roads in the country. And at 60,000 miles, it's probably also one of the higher mile examples.

And the only thing "wrong" with it is that second gear makes a little more whine than it used to. That doesn't say much about long term reliability, but I'm sure we won't be seeing all of the GTIs blowing up their transmissions after 80,000 miles.
 
Re: First production DSG. Did you guys get the Audi TT 3.2 in the States? I'm pretty sure that was the first production twin-clutch car (EDIT: Yes, it was according to wiki, in 2003):

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I'd just like to say that I think I agree with PB on whatever he was arguing about on the last page. Something about manual transmissions being reliable because they're mechanical, and not electronic. Electronically controlled things are never reliable.
 
Keef
I'd just like to say that I think I agree with PB on whatever he was arguing about on the last page. Something about manual transmissions being reliable because they're mechanical, and not electronic. Electronically controlled things are never reliable.
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Right. We all know that manual transmissions need bits and pieces replaced from wearing out, but that's because most of those parts are wear items that are expected to be replaced.

How long do the clutches last on a DSG or other gearbox like that anyhow?
 
Toronado
I think it was a race. Some R32s also got it in 2003, it seems. I'm still wrong of course, but its interesting that VW bothered putting it in the car as it was on its way out.
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I never knew about the R32s getting it, must have literally been a handfull of them. As for putting it in a car on it's way out, it makes perfect sense - they probably didn't have to re-engineer it too much as the R32 has the same engine as the TT 3.2, and it would surprise me to find out if the first car that used it in the Mk5 Golf had the 3.2 engine as well?

It's economies of scale. And once they knew it worked with a reasonably powerful V6 engine then it's probably a doddle to re-engineer it for less powerful engines such as that in the GTI, and whatever other cars it's now used in. I know you can now get the DSG in a Skoda Octavia. Diesel. And even a Volkswagen Caddy panel van.

Eric.
How long do the clutches last on a DSG or other gearbox like that anyhow?
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I've wondered that for a while and come to the entirely un-scientific conclusion that clutch life might not be too bad. Why? Well the DSG won't spend as much time slipping the clutch as the average human would with a manual, even a fairly skilled human. If the DSG is engaging one clutch and releasing the other it can do so with absolute precision so there will be virtually no slip at any time other than starting off.

Also, it's impossible to cock up a gearchange or ride the clutch with a DSG. So again, they're probably subject to less wear and tear.

Finally, for the higher-powered applications VAG run a wet clutch, like you'd find in a performance motorcycle. As it's very difficult indeed to burn out a wet cluch, wear should be kept to a minimum. Only the lower torque/power applications run dry clutches in the DSG.

And you apparently can't trick it into breaking, because if you try and select a lower gear when you're already near the redline it won't let you.

So yeah, I'm only guessing here but I suspect that if anything fails on a DSG it's going to be the electronics operating it, not the mechanical components.
 
okay, my time to chime in.

you can tell that the article must have been written by a baby boomer if they mention a Station Wagon in the 21st century in America. Sorry, buddy, but your the ones driving around in the big cushy buicks with all the bling pieces!

the point I argue here, runs thus.

people are stupid!! that's why all this "redundant" stuff is installed nowadays.

the boomers that Write all the magazines seem to forget that the ones buying and running all the cars nowadays happen to be Gen X, their children, and Gen Y, their GRANDchildren. I sure didn't grow up with all the tech, but I didn't grow up with the bare bones crap you could get away with up to the end of the muscle car era, either.

the redundancies are there for people who've never HAD to do everything manually!
and then people complain about how expensive it is to fix something minor...
 
I know it's not any surprise but I agree with mostly everything on that list. Some of the things I wouldn't call useless, but it's definitely not needed.

But this is coming from someone who doesn't like power steering so I think I somewhat fall into the group Casio stated.
 
if there's something that irks me, it's these drive-by-wire gadgets.. drive-by-wire throttle is awkward for me, and electronically assisted steering ( like the one in Fiats ) is just ridiculous, making the already numb and light steering even worse.
 
Leonidae
if there's something that irks me, it's these drive-by-wire gadgets.. drive-by-wire throttle is awkward for me, and electronically assisted steering ( like the one in Fiats ) is just ridiculous, making the already numb and light steering even worse.
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If you're talking about that little 'City' button, THANK you! Power steering makes it easy enough to park anyway, I don't need to press a button that makes it even lighter... What's worse is that some people leave it on for driving near the national speed limit, where it makes the steering very twitchy indeed. Not clever.
 
Leonidae
if there's something that irks me, it's these drive-by-wire gadgets.. drive-by-wire throttle is awkward for me, and electronically assisted steering ( like the one in Fiats ) is just ridiculous, making the already numb and light steering even worse.
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But as I pointed out on the other page, the majority of the car-driving population don't give a damn about steering feel, even those who drive BMW Z4s as mentioned in the article. For those of us who do care about steering feel, there are plenty of cars with good steering aimed at the enthusiasts. I seem to recall the steering in the Euro market Honda Civic is electrically assisted but in the Type R it's hydraulic for less assistance and more feel. There are other similar examples.
 
I actually only agree with about half that list.

See... anything that takes your mind off of things you do while driving that have nothing to do with piloting the vehicle is worth the hassle. I've lived many decades without some of these things, but I recognize some as useful...

I actually like automatic lights and wipers.

Anyone who's driven through a summer shower will understand this... how the rain starts out light... gets heavier, tapers off... gets heavier... stops... restarts... every time the weather changes slightly, you have to flick the switch again... now... granted, automatic systems aren't perfect, but every time they kick in without your input, you spend 0.5 seconds less paying attention to the wiper controls and 0.5 seconds more looking at the road and keeping both hands firmly on the wheel. It's helpful.

Same goes for automatics, or paddle-shifters, even. Now, I enjoy rowing with a stick.. BUT... keeping both hands on the wheel... again... is better... and... obviously (to anyone who watches F1) faster. Yes, you're removing some of the challenge that many of us love... but if it allows us to become more efficient and effective drivers... why not?

DSC, Traction control... helpful, to a point. I don't like either, but you can't deny that anything that prevents spinning or fishtailing in an emergency situation is a good thing. I consider myself a good driver... now, but back when I was learning, there were a few "incidents" I had that I wouldn't have had with ESP. Well... maybe I did learn from them, which led to my current level of safety, but any system that can potentially avert death should never be scoffed at.

Predictive brake-assist, seatbelt pre-tensioning... all useful...

Back-up sensors? Hell, yes, I can back up a full-sized pick-up without them, but having a system that can prevent you from accidentally running over a kid streaking across a parking lot? That's a good thing...

Personally, I'm the kind of neanderthal who appreciates a good, simple car with a manual transmission, no ABS and no other fripperies for the occassional track romp, but I'm not going to deny that many things I don't like have their uses in the real world...

EDIT: Steering feel? That's the same complaint people had back during the transition to hydraulic power steering. But some manufacturers have learned how to give hydraulic steering proper "feel" (raise your hand, Mazda)... it's only a matter of time before they manage the same with EPS. In fact, the new Mazda6, while not perfect, still has pretty good feel, simply through a simple relocation fo the assist motor. And the Mazda MX-5's electronic throttle is actually pretty damn good. It's not the technology. It's the implementation. If you don't like the way your manufacturer does it... switch to Mazda. (shameless plug).
 
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niky
but every time they kick in without your input, you spend 0.5 seconds less paying attention to the wiper controls and 0.5 seconds more looking at the road and keeping both hands firmly on the wheel.
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Yes, but then when they don't come on for whatever reason, you spend about 30 seconds looking through a rain-soaked windscreen before suddenly waking up to the fact that they haven't activated. You then spend another 10 faffing around trying to find the controls for the wipers, having never had to locate them before.
 
Perfect Balance
Not really, I can completely see the point of luxury cars and small features that make the experience more comfortable or enjoyable for someone that isn't really a driving enthusiast, but there shouldn't be anything that reduces the level of skill required for it. Don't cater to the stupid people. If they can't do it, they shouldn't be allowed to do it.
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The computer your typing on now, in all likelihood, has been dumbed down for the consumer market.

People should be focusing on automation, it's the 21st century, technology shouldn't remain stagnant so a few people can keep 'steering feel'. I like a nice fun car as much as the next guy, but at the same time, I look forward to the day where I don't have to drive at all, I can get into my pod and say "Work Please", and I can relax there the whole way.

If every car on the road had that laser cruise control, where it slowed down and sped up to and from standstill, all you'd have to do is steer, which would make a much safer, and efficient transport system.
 
The day I can't drive myself somewhere, is the day I had better become a quadraplegic.
 
Casio
If cars were fully automated (or more automated) you wouldn't be either.
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Computers sit on a desk. Cars fly down the road at all sorts of speeds, some of which can cause catastrophic damage. While the driver of a fully automated car may not be endangering lives, the car itself most certainly is. A computer sitting on a desk does neither.

Argument invalid.
 
Keef
Computers sit on a desk. Cars fly down the road at all sorts of speeds, some of which can cause catastrophic damage. While the driver of a fully automated car may not be endangering lives, the car itself most certainly is. A computer sitting on a desk does neither.

Argument invalid.
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You're arguing that unless you drive a car that is a manual with no power assistance for anything that you don't know how to drive are putting people at risk?

That automated car flying down the road, with an sensor on the front and around it, can detect something, pulling like a car or person, in front of it, and apply the absolute best stopping time, with next to no reaction. In time it would easily be feasibly possible for the car to perform evasive maneuvers autonomously.

Aircraft have been practically flying themselves autonomously for years, with a pilot basically their as a back-up, are you saying that 747s should go back to Pilots flying the aircraft with no assistance, cause you can't fly a plane unless you fly Spitfires?? And unlike aircraft, if a automated vehicle senses a malfunction or the like, it can safely pull over, which in my opinion makes it an even more feasible and a reason to do so.
 
Casio
In time it would easily be feasibly possible for the car to perform evasive maneuvers autonomously.
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In theory, if all vehicles were like this then evasive manueuvres would be a thing of the past, as the autonomous vehicles would never drive in a manner that would inconvenience other autonomous vehicles :D

I really don't long for that day though. Apart from anything, my desired career path of motoring journalism would be pretty dull if I just had to sit on my arse in an autonomous pod all day...
 

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