Lewis Hamilton's Mercedes W08 F1 Car Is Coming to Gran Turismo Sport
- Thread starter MXR_Sparky
- 510 comments
- 58,041 views
- 5,364
- Ohio
I got used to it before the update. Now, it's super easy to drive and to me, lost its charm.
- 5,364
- Ohio
If Suzuka is a base reference, there's no need to tune it. Plant your right foot and floor it now. Little lifts for the esses and Degner.
- 113
- Dunfermline
Sorry, but there's no charm in a car that doesn't handle anything like the real thing.
If you watch F1 drivers out of slow corners, they were not having to deal with the same issues we were.
I haven't tried the W08 since it's been "fixed", so I don't know if they've now made it too easy, but I struggle to believe it's less realistic now.
- 5,364
- Ohio
Maybe they were? Ever drive one?
I've watched a heck of a lot of F1 in my life. Doesn't seem easy.
I've watched a heck of a lot of F1 in my life. Doesn't seem easy.
- 113
- Dunfermline
Have I ever driven a real F1 car? What do you think?
You're not the only one to have watched F1 and if you can show me an example of an F1 car behaving the way it did on GT Sport around the hairpin at Suzuka, I'd happily stand down and admit actually GT Sport had the handling absolutely spot on.
- 5,364
- Ohio
I dunno, maybe you had.
Doesn't matter, we drive what we get. In a video game. 👍
Doesn't matter, we drive what we get. In a video game. 👍
- 126
- Hawkhurst
- watashi49
When I first read that the latest update included new races for the W08 my heart sank. For me, the W08 was the one thing about the game that was a real ****-up. With the help of our tuning aces I did manage to win each of the original campaign races eventually, but it was simply no fun at all; I don't remember any other car in any version of Gran Turismo that handled so badly around slow, tight corners. I haven't yet given the car another try, but the posts above have given me new hope!
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TonyJZX
(Banned)
- 3,945
- Australia
Further there's no going back.
I miss the old McLaren VGT but the new one is pretty ok too once you get a handle on it.
Cory is the original 'deal with it' guy as seen in the old GT6 seasonal forum. Its PD's way or the highway.
- 2,317
Ohh i will, i gave up in that stupid car, with the 1.28 i did the usual round of checkups, bought the Porches, drove on big willow, checke the 787B sound, took the new BMW to Nurburgring and then the Stupid car to suzuka, enabled CSM, Automatic Transmission, max TCS.. drove to the chicane and did not lose control... what!
Next round was without AT and CSM, still nothing! So yeah they fixed it!
- 126
- Hawkhurst
- watashi49
Update: Oh, my goodness. What a difference. I still find the races a bit too frantic for my taste (I'm not the greatest driver; probably more Sambabus than W08) but at least I can now keep it pointing in the right direction!
- 393
- Germany
- RaceFace85
In real life a good car has to be easy to drive to get confidence in the car. Without confidence you are not able to drive with a good pace over a whole season.
Hamilton would not be able to become a world champion with a car how it handled before the update. This is not possible.
Hamilton would not be able to become a world champion with a car how it handled before the update. This is not possible.
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,253
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
Just tried the W08 in the 2 new F1 races. It's better to drive for sure (no more insta-spin everytime you get to 1st/2nd gear corners and off throttle de-clutching is fixed), but I feel they have neutered it too far the other way. And the method they use is basically just pile on rear grip without addressing the quirks in their physics engine that makes the original car undrivable. To me it feels like whenever the current car exceeds a certain steering angle there is an "invisible" counter yaw force at the rear to stabilise it. It's a very unnatural feeling, I hate negotiating the chicane at Fuji - it's understeer country. A 700kg car with massive slicks should still be agile at low speeds while keeping good grip. At high speeds I got a snap oversteer at RB Ring's omega corner, applied little countersteer and the car instantly snaps back in line. Whereas in real life this generation F1 cars are notoriously difficult to catch once it breaks away. It's safe to drive for sure, but it still feels off. Now I'm not an F1 driver, so my main comparison is the SF70-H in Assetto Corsa. If you've ever driven AC's rendition of F1, you know everything just makes sense. I just don't get that feeling in GTS. I bet if Hamilton tries to drive the W08 he'd say the same.
It just shows how far behind PD's physics engine is behind market leading sims. It gives the illusion of reality just fine for 95% of cars and situations. But when pushed to the limit or told to simulate extreme cars (F1, gokarts, electric torque) everything falls apart. Yet, they still have the time and effort to simulate cars that run on plasma and compressed air
Ironically I still find GT5P/GT5 Ferrari F1 cars to be PD's best F1 simulation to date.
It just shows how far behind PD's physics engine is behind market leading sims. It gives the illusion of reality just fine for 95% of cars and situations. But when pushed to the limit or told to simulate extreme cars (F1, gokarts, electric torque) everything falls apart. Yet, they still have the time and effort to simulate cars that run on plasma and compressed air
Ironically I still find GT5P/GT5 Ferrari F1 cars to be PD's best F1 simulation to date.
TonyJZX
(Banned)
- 3,945
- Australia
Wow that's amazing. I got my ass handed to me just like the F1500s so I left this one alone... will come back and see how it goes.
I feel like PD may change the model somewhere down the line so like GT5/6... they make the model harder and then you're not competitive any more.
I feel like PD may change the model somewhere down the line so like GT5/6... they make the model harder and then you're not competitive any more.
Just tried the W08 in the 2 new F1 races. It's better to drive for sure (no more insta-spin everytime you get to 1st/2nd gear corners and off throttle de-clutching is fixed), but I feel they have neutered it too far the other way. And the method they use is basically just pile on rear grip without addressing the quirks in their physics engine that makes the original car undrivable. To me it feels like whenever the current car exceeds a certain steering angle there is an "invisible" counter yaw force at the rear to stabilise it. It's a very unnatural feeling, I hate negotiating the chicane at Fuji - it's understeer country. A 700kg car with massive slicks should still be agile at low speeds while keeping good grip. At high speeds I got a snap oversteer at RB Ring's omega corner, applied little countersteer and the car instantly snaps back in line. Whereas in real life this generation F1 cars are notoriously difficult to catch once it breaks away. It's safe to drive for sure, but it still feels off. Now I'm not an F1 driver, so my main comparison is the SF70-H in Assetto Corsa. If you've ever driven AC's rendition of F1, you know everything just makes sense. I just don't get that feeling in GTS. I bet if Hamilton tries to drive the W08 he'd say the same.
It just shows how far behind PD's physics engine is behind market leading sims. It gives the illusion of reality just fine for 95% of cars and situations. But when pushed to the limit or told to simulate extreme cars (F1, gokarts, electric torque) everything falls apart. Yet, they still have the time and effort to simulate cars that run on plasma and compressed air
Ironically I still find GT5P/GT5 Ferrari F1 cars to be PD's best F1 simulation to date.
The W08 was absolutely perfect before the update. It's sad to see, yet again, PD giving in to the amateurs who cry and cry that they can't drive the highest tier car in the game.
I haven't driven the W08 yet post update. But if they made it easier to drive, bottom line, I'm unhappy. I don't want the F1 to handle like an X2010, I want it to be a freakin handful.
That's just my point though. It didn't behave poorly, it behaved perfect. In less than 1 hour of practice I was consistently putting down 4 minute Nordschleife laps without any driver Aids whatsoever. If anything, it was too easy to drive before the update.
If you couldn't handle the W08 before the update you needed to work on your racecraft, bottom line, and that's the inconvenient truth.
- 5,364
- Ohio
It was better. Now it's easier.
- 528
- United Kingdom
- PD_ApexPredator
- 1,925
- United States
If my racecraft hasn't improved since 1997 and the first gran Turismo it isn't going to now. Maybe with a wheel and pedals you could control those ridiculous spins but I found it personally impossible with a controller. Never claimed to be one of the best drivers. I don't even compete in sport mode because it's too frustrating.
- 5,916
- Finland
If your idea of perfect is a 800 kg car with a nearly four metre wheelbase and running on 405 mm wide soft compound racing slicks spinning like it was on ice when coasting into a corner at 60 km/h, well let's just say that your idea differs quite a lot from what should happen when real life physics are involved.
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,253
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
So much elitism and misguided opinions here. If all you want is just difficult, go play GPL. F1 is hard to drive on the limit, but if you pootle around at 60km/h it shouldn't spin on a dime with tiny steering input like pre-update. Not saying post-update it's right either, because now it's impossible to spin. The truth is somewhere in between.
Difficult =/= Real
Intuitive = Real
To counter the Grosjean video above, I present this:
Difficult =/= Real
Intuitive = Real
To counter the Grosjean video above, I present this:
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- 113
- Dunfermline
Yup, agree with this.
However, I'd still argue the car is not "impossible" to spin. Certainly not with traction control off anyway (which these cars don't have in real life).
I noticed you will still spin if you're slightly too heavy on the throttle with no TC on.
I've also noticed that the W08 doesn't appear to have the correct amount of downforce and even lowering the ride height and increasing the downforce doesn't make it as quick as it should be through corners. Still too much understeer.
- 528
- United Kingdom
- PD_ApexPredator
A video of a 2012 F1 car?
It's not harvesting anywhere near the same amount under braking let-alone lift-off so the deceleration characteristics aren't at all comparable.
I agree it was very easy to spin the W08 at low-speed sharp corners, but I'm not convinced everyone complaining about it were fully au fait with how modern F1 cars work; let alone how to drive one.
There's plenty of footage of modern-era F1 cars over-rotating at slow speed corners; either through overly aggressive KERS or simply downforce unloading, that's all I'm saying. No comment on anyone's driving.
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,253
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
Well it's still a 700kg car with near 1000hp, so on throttle if you're not careful obviously it will spin. Even a stock Miata will spin if you crank the wheel and apply full throttle on CH.
I'm more referring to the tendency to spin mid corner when you're on steady throttle. You're not braking, not accelerating and applying constant steering input. It's literally the most stable phase of cornering but pre-update it's 50:50 whether the car makes it or not. That's why corners like Suzuka hairpin/chicane and Nurburgring chicane is so sketchy. Post update it's now impossible to cause oversteer in those situations and as a result the car feels so ponderous and not as agile as it should be. Taking the Fuji chicane is a massive pain.
It's the same issue as with MR race cars in GT6. The R8 LMS and Diablo GT2 were particularly bad with this. Something to do with the rear heavy, high downforce and low ride height that makes the rear end of the car bottom out and spin wayyy too easily in PD's physics world.
The downforce issue I think is because GT never models underbody downforce properly. And as you know this gen F1 cars produce a significant amount from their wider floors. Also rake is an important part of the equation (more so for Red Bull than Merc because of the Merc's longer wheelbase), but I bet this isn't modeled either in GT.
As with my comment above, I was referring more to instability at steady state mid cornering rather than deceleration/acceleration period. If you just think logically, the wider tyres alone should mean more mechanical grip at low speeds for the newer cars than older ones. Yet a relatively inexperienced youtuber can drive the older car just fine without spinning every corner.
I don't think anyone's kidding themselves that they are an expert at driving F1, but it's really, really hard to believe that the older simulation is accurate when every other more credible sim on the market isn't like that.
Anyway, all the Formula type cars are really weird in GT Sport. W08, Red Bull Jr/Standard, F1500 and gokarts. They weren't perfect in GT5P/GT5/GT6, but they are much more believable. It's disappointing because with every other car GTS physics feel much better than previous GTs.
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