Lightweight cars draw the short straw in GT5?

[r0llinlacs]

Why does it seem like ANY lightweight car I buy gets ripped off HP wise?

Example: Just bought an early 90's TVR that weighed about 1000kg and has a 4.0L V-8. I'm thinking, sweet, this things gonna be fast! No, not in GT5. Of course I can't fit a turbo or supercharger, and on top of that the NA tuning is weaksauce.

Example 2: New TRD Celica that weighs less than 900kg tuned, yet can only push 300hp??

This is just one of EVERY lightweight car I've ever purchased that has been like this.

When I purchase a vehicle because of it's weight, I expect the engine to be just as tune-able as any other car. Why aren't they? Are they scared of non-Japanese cars winning a race?

It just takes away the performance advantage of light weight vehicles, which makes lightweight vehicles themselves, pointless.

 

[mini_roofer_S]

buy the TVR Tuscan and race modify it. 880 KG and 550HP. theres your solution.

 

[Exorcet]

I think GT engine tuning basically goes off stock HP and displacement. The RX-7 gets 500+hp though, and it's fairly light.

GT tuning is a bit dated. You can't really change a car, only "amplify" it, the only exception being RM. You should be able to take anything and make a 1000 hp, 2000 lb monster out of it.

 

[Mubble]

Elise 111R - 720kg - 315bhp
Ferrari 330 P4 - 792kg - 572bhp
Mazda 787B - 830kg - 927bhp
Civic Type R - 845kg - 346bhp
Lambo Miura - 872 kg - 505bhp
TVR Tuscan - 885kg - 556bhp
TVR Tamora - 939kg - 499bhp
Nissan Silvia Spec-R - 1000kg - 457bhp
Shelby Cobra - 1003kg - 645bhp
Acura NSX - 1045kg - 414bhp
Lotus Motorsport Elise - 648kg - 331bhp
Renault Maxi Rally Car - 905kg - 484bhp
Ford GT40 Race Car - 998kg - 549bhp

I could go on.

Don't really see the problem.

300bhp in a car weighing under 1000kg is plenty enough. Anymore in a chassis that light and it'll be skidding all over the track.

 

[Trustf1re]

TVR Speed 12, i have one at home, i think it's about 950kgs and 750hp fully tuned (can't remember exact numbers). It's an absolute monster. Chews the ring up.

It is still my highest PP car and i got it weeks ago.

 

[GeneralJesh]

Also when a car is really light (GSX-R/4,Catheram,Elise) it's like they float.

Lambo Miura - 872 kg - 505 bhp

Why, why whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[dabest2500]

If the car can't have turbochargers in real life, then it won't be included in GT5.
A bit silly to give the McLaren F1 a turbocharger in GT5.

 

[Mubble]

Also when a car is really light (GSX-R/4,Catheram,Elise) it's like they float.



Why, why whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Why what? Why the big bhp?

 

[ucwepn]

Yes same with the Commodore SS it has an LS1 drivetrain but can only reach 740hp whereas corvettes running the same drivetrain can have over 800hp.

 

[FlyWire]

A fully tuned Caterham holds 250 HP in a 350Kg Chasis, that is some insane HP/Weight ratio on there

 

[Luminis]

If the car can't have turbochargers in real life, then it won't be included in GT5.
A bit silly to give the McLaren F1 a turbocharger in GT5.

Why would a car be unable to have a turbo or supercharger in real life? if someone was to rework the internals to withstand the increased strain forced induction causes, it's easily possible.

For example, it's pretty common to turbocharge the NSX for time attack. Can't do the same in GT5, though.

 

[r0llinlacs]

Elise 111R - 720kg - 315bhp
Ferrari 330 P4 - 792kg - 572bhp
Mazda 787B - 830kg - 927bhp
Civic Type R - 845kg - 346bhp
Lambo Miura - 872 kg - 505bhp
TVR Tuscan - 885kg - 556bhp
TVR Tamora - 939kg - 499bhp
Nissan Silvia Spec-R - 1000kg - 457bhp
Shelby Cobra - 1003kg - 645bhp
Acura NSX - 1045kg - 414bhp
Lotus Motorsport Elise - 648kg - 331bhp
Renault Maxi Rally Car - 905kg - 484bhp
Ford GT40 Race Car - 998kg - 549bhp

I could go on.

Don't really see the problem.

300bhp in a car weighing under 1000kg is plenty enough. Anymore in a chassis that light and it'll be skidding all over the track.

Cobra - Seriously, 645hp out of a 427 V-8? No, try 1000+.
NSX - 414hp is an insult to NSXs around the world.

My 2.4 liter Nissan 4 cylinder is capable of 1100+ hp in real life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOBnIYeCbE&feature=related
^ and that's a 20 year old engine design.

To see such low powered tuned cars in this game is a big disappointment. Where are the 1000hp Supras, Skylines, RX-7s, Evos, Chevelles, Corvettes, Mustangs, and every other car that can reach 1000hp tuned in real life?

 

[blaaah]

The engines are tuned for racing and endurance, If you wanted a super high tune, you should expect to only be allowed to use it for just a few laps, then it would need a refresh costing you credits. With the maximum tunes you currently get they can keep going on and on with only regular oil changes. And only after a great deal of miles need a rebuild.

BTW, Mubble, you can get 319bhp from the 111R RM.

 

[r0llinlacs]

The engines are tuned for racing and endurance, If you wanted a super high tune, you should expect to only be allowed to use it for just a few laps, then it would need a refresh costing you credits. With the maximum tunes you currently get they can keep going on and on with only regular oil changes. And only after a great deal of miles need a rebuild.

BTW, Mubble, you can get 319bhp from the 111R RM.

Well there's already a form of engine "damage", so why not increase this value to compensate for more HP/less reliable builds?

I don't care how long it lasts if it has that much power.

But we are getting off topic.

I still think lighter weight cars have less tuning capabilities than their heavier weight counter parts.

 

[Tornado]

If the car can't have turbochargers in real life, then it won't be included in GT5.

So what you are saying is that all cars in the game should be able to have turbo upgrades. Because you can turbocharge almost whatever you want in real life, and usually for far less money than what GT5 charges you.
Hell, there are cars in the game that you can't turbocharge even though there are also similar ones in the game that come with turbochargers (ie. Volkswagen R32).

 

[berzerkfvry]

Sure, some cars can achieve the breaking point into 1000bhp areas but it is more of reconstruction, GT's tuning is along the lines of refinement.
You can always play Need for Speed if you want all 1000hp/1000kg, you even get NOS!!

 

[magburner]

Some of the tuning is pretty silly in GT5. Look at the XJ9 Le Mans car. It clearly states in the description, that it won the 24hr race as a naturally aspirated race car, amongst turbo-charged competition. Yet, when you go and tune it up, you can only slap turbos on the car... 👍

PS. The guy with the list of car tunes: My Cobra weights a little over 900kg, and has more than 740bhp. 👍

 

[Zeroyon]

So what you are saying is that all cars in the game should be able to have turbo upgrades. Because you can turbocharge almost whatever you want in real life, and usually for far less money than what GT5 charges you.
Hell, there are cars in the game that you can't turbocharge even though there are also similar ones in the game that come with turbochargers (ie. Volkswagen R32).

What car/cars are similar to the R32 that aren't already turbocharged? I thought all GTI's from mk4 upwards were turbo too...

There is nothing wrong with having 1000bhp, infact it is quite common for tuners to push this number with the technology now, though most will not use more than 900bhp. Only thing stopping more huge HP monsters like these in competition is regulations.

 

[freedomweasel]

What car/cars are similar to the R32 that aren't already turbocharged? I thought all GTI's from mk4 upwards were turbo too...

The HPA tuned version, which I believe is twin turbo'd. 👍
The stock, VW R32 has an NA 3.2L VR6. Supercharging or turbocharging are both common, yet I believe both are impossible in GT5.

 

[BAZZ]

You can always play Need for Speed if you want all 1000hp/1000kg, you even get NOS!!

Or, Gran Turismo 4.
I agree with the OP though, it wouldn't hurt to be able to tune cars just a liiitle bit more. Not only lightweight cars though but they seem to be left behind a lot more.

 

[Bigbazz]

Some cars are not realistically viable for turbos. Engines that are designed to be high powered NA have extremely high compression ratios, they are designed this way and if you add a turbo without massive changes to the whole system then you're just going to blow the engine.

Perfect example would be the 627bhp Mclaren F1 engine, you say "oh this engine has 600hp without a turbo, so if you add turbos then it must be atleast 1200!!!111" no what would happen is it would blow up, it would be easier to replace the engine completely than to adapt the engine for turbos, it was not designed to be used with a turbo.

That is why some cars cannot have turbos added to them, because it is not realistically possible, to the point where replacing the engine would be easier than modifying the whole lot to be able to take a turbo. Obviously this is not always the case, but in many cases it is.



Many cars in GT5 can not be tuned as high as has been achieved in real life, but in many cases the modifications to cars in real life go further than what is available in game. For example replacing engine blocks for aftermarket ones (common with high powered subaru's that switch to cosworth blocks). Mitsubishi colt tunes often include replacing the engine from one out of a Lancer, or Honda Civics with an engine out of a prelude or integra.

 

[freedomweasel]

Some cars are not realistically viable for turbos. Engines that are designed to be high powered NA have extremely high compression ratios, they are designed this way and if you add a turbo without massive changes to the whole system then you're just going to blow the engine.

True, but there are cars in GT that don't allow forced induction that are commonly modified as such in real life.

 

[HE1RO]

This all seems like it would require a whole new shop and tune interface that PD would have to make, plus they might even have to do more research on the engines so that they can gauge how much power an engine can do, and what it takes to get there. Sounds like a lot of work to me...

But back to the main topic, lightweights. I think something is off when it comes to lightweight cars, i feel like they should be going faster in game. I've seen Civics hang with Mustang GT's and sometimes beat them. Of course the civic was modded but it didn't have more HP than the GT.

 

[HuskyGT]

Power-Weight ratio.... Get a TVR Tamora. Around 900kg stock, 350HP... Thats more power to weight ratio than a Dodge Viper. Its not all about power, you know...

 

[Zeroyon]

Some cars are not realistically viable for turbos. Engines that are designed to be high powered NA have extremely high compression ratios, they are designed this way and if you add a turbo without massive changes to the whole system then you're just going to blow the engine.

Perfect example would be the 627bhp Mclaren F1 engine, you say "oh this engine has 600hp without a turbo, so if you add turbos then it must be atleast 1200!!!111" no what would happen is it would blow up, it would be easier to replace the engine completely than to adapt the engine for turbos, it was not designed to be used with a turbo.

That is why some cars cannot have turbos added to them, because it is not realistically possible, to the point where replacing the engine would be easier than modifying the whole lot to be able to take a turbo. Obviously this is not always the case, but in many cases it is.



Many cars in GT5 can not be tuned as high as has been achieved in real life, but in many cases the modifications to cars in real life go further than what is available in game. For example replacing engine blocks for aftermarket ones (common with high powered subaru's that switch to cosworth blocks). Mitsubishi colt tunes often include replacing the engine from one out of a Lancer, or Honda Civics with an engine out of a prelude or integra.

First off, the McLaren engine is a purely race designed kit, these are so far different from even the road going engines that turbocharging would actually be less than the difference I stated above.

When you are talking about engine swaps and such, we are not talking about that. We are talking about the cars those engines were built for ie: NSX, Supras and Skylines. These are the big dogs in the automotive performance industry and demand respect for their ability to put out such figures with ease.

I can see PD is trying to even the playing field with power to weight ratios but with the inconsistency of actual performance compared to real life versions, having 200-300bhp less is a huge disadvantage. An NSX should easily be able to match a skylines performance and power increases up to around 6-700bhp but in GT5 the NSX does not even come close to the R32 let alone the newer models.

Sadly I see the next GT generation is going to lack in giving due respect to cars that have redefined racing and will think that Skylines are the end-all of performance motorsports.

PS: I noticed pretty much since day one that some parts only have an option to upgrade to semi-racing, which goes against all previous GTs. I got an inkling that in a future update we will see the stage 3 parts not available in GT5 currently. Similar to what they did with the tuning options. Think of it as training wheels, they gave us an even spread of gears to help new people get used to probably the most important tuning aspect to going fast, now they removed as plenty of newcomers have a better understanding of how transmissions work and get tuned.

If they kept that under wraps for that time without anybody knowing for sure the situation just have a little brainstorm to yourself about the other possiblities open to them/us. I can think of lots just from previous GTs.

 

[MercilessOne]

I think GT engine tuning basically goes off stock HP and displacement. The RX-7 gets 500+hp though, and it's fairly light.

GT tuning is a bit dated. You can't really change a car, only "amplify" it, the only exception being RM. You should be able to take anything and make a 1000 hp, 2000 lb monster out of it.

Seriously.

Hell, I've seen 1000+ HP M3s and M5s. Even Lamborghinis and Ferraris. Where's my ability to do that? I want engine AND drivetrain swaps. C'mon PD, get with the times!

 

[Bigbazz]

First off, the McLaren engine is a purely race designed kit, these are so far different from even the road going engines that turbocharging would actually be less than the difference I stated above.

When you are talking about engine swaps and such, we are not talking about that. We are talking about the cars those engines were built for ie: NSX, Supras and Skylines. These are the big dogs in the automotive performance industry and demand respect for their ability to put out such figures with ease.

I can see PD is trying to even the playing field with power to weight ratios but with the inconsistency of actual performance compared to real life versions, having 200-300bhp less is a huge disadvantage. An NSX should easily be able to match a skylines performance and power increases up to around 6-700bhp but in GT5 the NSX does not even come close to the R32 let alone the newer models.

Sadly I see the next GT generation is going to lack in giving due respect to cars that have redefined racing and will think that Skylines are the end-all of performance motorsports.

I was talking about the road car F1, not the formula 1 car. My point is mainly aimed towards the big complaints that people have when they cannot add a turbo to their NA supercars, be it Ferrari or Mclaren or whatever, and don't understand why that is such a difficult thing to do, there has been a lot of discussion on it.



Engine/Drivetrain swaps are going to be a licencing issue, a lot of the tuning achieved in real life results in that, it would be amazing and i've always wanted it since GT2, but i doubt it will happen.

Moving on to the NSX, these are the kings of japanese NA tuning, while there are people who add turbo's to them, typically you see them NA tuned reaching around 500bhp top end of the scale (that i have seen anyway), which is not far off what you can reach in game with the car.


Skylines and Supras are typically known for being amazing cars to turbo tune and yes people do manage amazing numbers with them, over 1000bhp. I'm not really sure why they cannot be tuned this much in game. With that said, this thread is about lightweight cars, and neither of those can be considered lightweight.

 

[Ryou]

Daihatsu MIRA Avanzato R - Around 900 KG - 202 HP - 552 PP

Can beat an Audi R8

 

[vwtechnician]

The HPA tuned version, which I believe is twin turbo'd. 👍
The stock, VW R32 has an NA 3.2L VR6. Supercharging or turbocharging are both common, yet I believe both are impossible in GT5.

That one annoys me a bit, though I tend not to get caught up in these things. The 3.2 VR6 is frequently and easily turboed and supercharged in real life but in GT5 it isn't, in the R32, The 3.2 Audi TT, the Bora VR6, the 3.2 Audi A3 and I think a few others. The choices in what can be done to what are rather random and not even loosely based on reality. ( Like everything else in this game, though, they are biased towards japanes brands )

 

[freedomweasel]

Sadly I see the next GT generation is going to lack in giving due respect to cars that have redefined racing and will think that Skylines are the end-all of performance motorsports.

I wouldn't worry about people who base real life car opinions on a video game.

Hell, I've seen 1000+ HP M3s and M5s.

As has been said in several places, you can pour more and more horsepower into nearly anything. Relatively speaking it's not all that impressive. Being able to effectively get the power to the road is impressive, and being able to put the power to the road for more than 30 seconds at a time is impressive and useful.

That one annoys me a bit, though I tend not to get caught up in these things. The 3.2 VR6 is frequently and easily turboed and supercharged in real life but in GT5 it isn't, in the R32, The 3.2 Audi TT, the Bora VR6, the 3.2 Audi A3 and I think a few others. The choices in what can be done to what are rather random and not even loosely based on reality.

Yeah, it's definitely a bummer as it's such a great engine. I'm not really sure how PD decided what upgrades could be done to things. In the case of the R32 it can't be balance as the HPA R32 has turbos. It all seems rather arbitrary.