Lightweight cars draw the short straw in GT5?

[Mr. CoolFiat]

Yes same with the Commodore SS it has an LS1 drivetrain but can only reach 740hp whereas corvettes running the same drivetrain can have over 800hp.

U have to think of how this power gets transmitted to the wheels, Transmission (friction), driveshaft (more friction), rear axle (friction+) and dont mention the engine parts (LOTS OF Friction)... so you do lose some power, eh?

 

[Bigbazz]

I wouldn't worry about people who base real life car opinions on a video game.



As has been said in several places, you can pour more and more horsepower into nearly anything. Relatively speaking it's not all that impressive. Being able to effectively get the power to the road is impressive, and being able to put the power to the road for more than 30 seconds at a time is impressive and useful.

Fully tune (not racemod a Honda Civic type R ek 98), and what you just said is demonstrated perfectly. The car has 400bhp and almost all of that is useless when the car is not going in a straight line, it has the power but it can't put it down to the road.

 

[freedomweasel]

U have to think of how this power gets transmitted to the wheels, Transmission (friction), driveshaft (more friction), rear axle (friction+) and dont mention the engine parts (LOTS OF Friction)... so you do lose some power, eh?

He's saying that two cars with identical drivetrains can be tuned to different amounts in the game, not that the crank and wheel ratings are different.

 

[ac3h01e]

Cobra - Seriously, 645hp out of a 427 V-8? No, try 1000+.
NSX - 414hp is an insult to NSXs around the world.

My 2.4 liter Nissan 4 cylinder is capable of 1100+ hp in real life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOBnIYeCbE&feature=related
^ and that's a 20 year old engine design.

To see such low powered tuned cars in this game is a big disappointment. Where are the 1000hp Supras, Skylines, RX-7s, Evos, Chevelles, Corvettes, Mustangs, and every other car that can reach 1000hp tuned in real life?

They're not in the game because I'm pretty sure they'd struggle to complete 1 lap of a track before self destructing.

 

[Havok_]

Two words: Ariel Atom.....Why this car isn't in GT5 is beyond me..

 

[Tolaez]

You have to remember for a second that while this is a "simulator" this is also a game. As a result they likely had to make some decisions in order to keep different cars competetive against unusual opponents.

Say they made it so any car could get 1000 hp. Why would you race a heavier car then? The lighter one should always win all other things equal.

Plus, just like in real life smaller and lighter cars usually have smaller displacement engines which will make it harder to produce bigger numbers.

The tuning is not perfect, and I'm sure everyone wishes they had a few more options here and there. I wish I could put a couple of turbos on a big american v8 car and see some ridiculous HP numbers too But then I'd probably never race any other car hahah.

 

[VQuick]

Tuning options for natural aspiration could use some improvement in this game, especially for cars that cannot have a turbo or supercharger added. The lightweights often fall within this category, and really suffer for it.

In that other game, you were able to get cams that gave you heaps more power by themselves(20-30hp minimum). They could also extend your rev range, which is especially useful in a naturally aspirated application. High compression pistons added power and helped combat turbo lag, if your car was so equipped. Even valvetrain upgrades gave you a little bit more power.

Give us power that is more appropriate to the amount of work being done in the staged upgrades, and/or split the upgrades and give us more control over what is being done.

 

[freedomweasel]

Tuning options for natural aspiration could use some improvement in this game, especially for cars that cannot have a turbo or supercharger added. The lightweights often fall within this category, and really suffer for it.

In that other game, you were able to get cams that gave you heaps more power by themselves(20-30hp minimum). They could also extend your rev range, which is especially useful in a naturally aspirated application. High compression pistons added power and helped combat turbo lag, if your car was so equipped. Even valvetrain upgrades gave you a little bit more power.

Give us power that is more appropriate to the amount of work being done in the staged upgrades, and/or split the upgrades and give us more control over what is being done.

It's not really any different though, In both games you can either tune the engine itself (either stages or part by part depending on the game), or slap a turbo on it and tune the engine.
Any given engine tuned up to the max will have less power than an equal engine with a turbo, in game world that is.

If they tried to balance it by making it an either/or situation with turbo vs engine tuning it would be even more gamey and less sim-like.

 

[Exorcet]

Say they made it so any car could get 1000 hp. Why would you race a heavier car then? The lighter one should always win all other things equal.

It could be because the heavier car is more fun, or the weight limit makes the lighter car unusable.

There isn't really anything to balance in GT. Offline, you can bring anything to most races (as you should be able to) and online, restrictions make every car fair and also usable.

If GT had more in depth tuning coupled with more in depth race restrictions, everyone would win. You could make a monster Mini that would run with GT1 cars, but you could also have online rooms where such things could never enter.

 

[VQuick]

It's not really any different though, In both games you can either tune the engine itself (either stages or part by part depending on the game), or slap a turbo on it and tune the engine.
Any given engine tuned up to the max will have less power than an equal engine with a turbo, in game world that is.

If they tried to balance it by making it an either/or situation with turbo vs engine tuning it would be even more gamey and less sim-like.

If every car could receive a turbo or supercharger, it wouldn't be such an issue. Options for naturally aspirated tuning are slim, and they feature very low power gains. Cars that cannot have a turbo or supercharger are at a huge disadvantage.

 

[Tolaez]

It could be because the heavier car is more fun, or the weight limit makes the lighter car unusable.

There isn't really anything to balance in GT. Offline, you can bring anything to most races (as you should be able to) and online, restrictions make every car fair and also usable.

If GT had more in depth tuning coupled with more in depth race restrictions, everyone would win. You could make a monster Mini that would run with GT1 cars, but you could also have online rooms where such things could never enter.

Almost anything is possible. They have to draw a line somewhere though. I think they decided to make that line a little further towards what you normally see than towards a mini going faster than GT1 cars. I think it was a good call. I like that a fully modded car is somewhat limited by what it has in stock form.

 

[freedomweasel]

If every car could receive a turbo or supercharger, it wouldn't be such an issue. Options for naturally aspirated tuning are slim, and they feature very low power gains. Cars that cannot have a turbo or supercharger are at a huge disadvantage.

I wouldn't say that they're at a disadvantage. Those cars simply can't race in the higher PP ranges. Two otherwise equal cars will have a close race regardless of NA vs turbo vs supercharger.

It's a bummer that you can't turbo an NSX or something, but I'd much rather have that problem then be unable to do a stage 1 engine tune to a car because I put a turbo on it. That, in my opinion, would just reek of game balancing over sim. What we have now seems like it can mostly just be "more weird decisions by PD".

 

[HighPlainsDrftr]

Two words: Ariel Atom.....Why this car isn't in GT5 is beyond me..

^ This would be awesome- but would it end up being nerfed somehow?
I do think the lightweights were short changed a bit.

 

[Turtle]

Fully modded Ginetta G4: Less than 500KG, 250+ horsepower. Trust me, It's overpowered.

 

[r0llinlacs]

Example: Yellow Hat GT-R. It has the exact same engine as the normal road going GT-R, weighs a good 200kg less, and has downforce. Yet, fully tuned can only reach roughly 700bhp, while the road going GT-R gets 856bhp.

If anything, I'd expect the Yellow Hat to have MORE bhp. Yes, it's RWD, but I don't care if PD thinks 856bhp is too much power for a RWD layout. One of the most rewarding experiences is being able to control the tire spin (without traction control, of course) and for people who can't control it, they have traction control.

 

[freedomweasel]

Example: Yellow Hat GT-R. It has the exact same engine as the normal road going GT-R, weighs a good 200kg less, and has downforce. Yet, fully tuned can only reach roughly 700bhp, while the road going GT-R gets 856bhp.

If anything, I'd expect the Yellow Hat to have MORE bhp. Yes, it's RWD, but I don't care if PD thinks 856bhp is too much power for a RWD layout. One of the most rewarding experiences is being able to control the tire spin (without traction control, of course) and for people who can't control it, they have traction control.

I'm not positive in this case, but often with race series like this the cars only appear to be their road going versions when in reality it's a purpose-built chassis and a different drivetrain, engine, etc. This could be the case here.
Perhaps it's a different engine in the SuperGT car and it's not capable of producing as much power as the road car.

 

[r0llinlacs]

I'm not positive in this case, but often with race series like this the cars only appear to be their road going versions when in reality it's a purpose-built chassis and a different drivetrain, engine, etc. This could be the case here.
Perhaps it's a different engine in the SuperGT car and it's not capable of producing as much power as the road car.

Chassis and drivetrain different, yes. The engine is the same twin-turbod beast.

 

[freedomweasel]

Chassis and drivetrain different, yes. The engine is the same twin-turbod beast.

Cool, I'm no expert on SuperGT so I was just throwing that out there as a possibility based on my knowledge of other races series.

 

[The_Seeker76]

Two words: Ariel Atom.....Why this car isn't in GT5 is beyond me..

Two words and a capital letter:

Pagani Zonda R.

Took nearly 7 seconds off the Atom's Top Gear lap time a few weeks ago.

 

[freedomweasel]

Two words and a capital letter:

Pagani Zonda R.

Took nearly 7 seconds off the Atom's Top Gear lap time a few weeks ago.

I thought they only tested road legal cars for that lap time board.

 

[mizx]

Chassis and drivetrain different, yes. The engine is the same twin-turbod beast.

No it isn't, the 2008-9 cars use the VK45DE naturally aspirated V8.

On another point, you can compare the tuning potential of the two in GT5, but I think it's a bit pointless even discussing power gains on a racing car. In a way, it is what it is, I don't personally see the point in tuning any of the racing cars.

 

[eight6er]

In GT2/3 the AE86 corolla could be tuned to around 360 hp, in GT5 it can only get up to 270 hp. Maybe it's because most light weight cars are older cars, and as part of the licence agreement, some manufacturers wanted their new cars to appear to be faster than their old cars in GT5.

 

[RufusGonePunk]

Example: Yellow Hat GT-R. It has the exact same engine as the normal road going GT-R, weighs a good 200kg less, and has downforce. Yet, fully tuned can only reach roughly 700bhp, while the road going GT-R gets 856bhp.

If anything, I'd expect the Yellow Hat to have MORE bhp. Yes, it's RWD, but I don't care if PD thinks 856bhp is too much power for a RWD layout. One of the most rewarding experiences is being able to control the tire spin (without traction control, of course) and for people who can't control it, they have traction control.

I'm not positive in this case, but often with race series like this the cars only appear to be their road going versions when in reality it's a purpose-built chassis and a different drivetrain, engine, etc. This could be the case here.
Perhaps it's a different engine in the SuperGT car and it's not capable of producing as much power as the road car.

It is a different engine. The GTR uses VR36, a twin-turbo'd V6, whilst the Super GT cars use the VK45, an N/A V8. Apparently they're capable of almost 800bhp but are restricted. That's in N/A form too, god know's what figures would be possible with a little turbo help.
On a side note, they idle at 3500rpm in real life but only 2000rpm in game.

Another example of PD either not doing their research or fugding figures is with their beloved Skylines. The Nismo R34 R-Tune can put out 680bhp (Although IIRC it was around 800bhp in GT4, closer to real life), the Nismo 400R can put out 601bhp and the Calsonic R32 Race Car can put out 620bhp. All these cars use the same RB26 engine though, so what's stopping the earlier models reaching the same power outputs as the R34? I have a feeling it's because the R34 cannot be made as light as the Calsonic Race Car, so they've made it so they're competitive. Or maybe I'm just being skeptical? Haha.

 

[charliec]

Chassis and drivetrain different, yes. The engine is the same twin-turbod beast.

These engines typically run restrictors. Also, if I'm not mistaken the engine in the YellowHat is probably a VK45DE, not the VR38DETT.

EDIT - Rufus beat me to it 👍

 

[kaputsport]

Another example of PD either not doing their research or fugding figures is with their beloved Skylines. The Nismo R34 R-Tune can put out 680bhp (Although IIRC it was around 800bhp in GT4, closer to real life), the Nismo 400R can put out 601bhp and the Calsonic R32 Race Car can put out 620bhp. All these cars use the same RB26 engine though, so what's stopping the earlier models reaching the same power outputs as the R34? I have a feeling it's because the R34 cannot be made as light as the Calsonic Race Car, so they've made it so they're competitive. Or maybe I'm just being skeptical? Haha.

I really wish they would lose the focus on so many of the same japanese car... I mean, do we really need 27 Skylines? Take 22 away and add the Arial Atom, E39 M5, Koeningsegg (spelling) and a slew of other cars not represented in the game.

Also, I think they purposely downplay the other cars. In real life, the BMW E46 M3 can be turbocharged, or supercharged. HPF (horsepowerfreaks) has made a daily driven 1000+ HP monster, ironically matching the in game prices (over $47,000 for the stage 4) yet, you cannot do any of it in the game. Not to mention, the interior is not modeled to be a premium. This is the car BMW came out with, which the Japanese are still trying to duplicate, and they leave out the premium bits?

HP and weight levels are always mismatched. Seriously though, most people here know that a 2JZ-GTR can produce a reliable 1000hp, same with the RB26-TT in the R34 Skyline, but we are unable to match real life scenarios. Seems odd.

I personally think they should represent the top tuners in the world in all countries, or none at all. We get shafted with another S2000 and yet another Skyline...

I wish they would fix, and add these types of tuners to the game, or at least adjust the abilities to real life status.

 

[SavageWhiteDude]

If the car can't have turbochargers in real life, then it won't be included in GT5.
A bit silly to give the McLaren F1 a turbocharger in GT5.

A bit silly to assume that if a car doesn't come with a turbo stock it can't be done with is close to the extent GT5 has taken it. There are MANY cars in GT5 that you could easily add a turbo to in real life that you can't in GT5.

I thought they only tested road legal cars for that lap time board.

They will test just about anything but they only allow street legal cars that can make it over a "sleeping policeman" to stay on the board. They put it up for a few seconds, talked about it, then took it off the board.

 

[Perkel]

I really wish they would lose the focus on so many of the same japanese car... I mean, do we really need 27 Skylines? Take 22 away and add the Arial Atom, E39 M5, Koeningsegg (spelling) and a slew of other cars not represented in the game.

Also, I think they purposely downplay the other cars. In real life, the BMW E46 M3 can be turbocharged, or supercharged. HPF (horsepowerfreaks) has made a daily driven 1000+ HP monster, ironically matching the in game prices (over $47,000 for the stage 4) yet, you cannot do any of it in the game. Not to mention, the interior is not modeled to be a premium. This is the car BMW came out with, which the Japanese are still trying to duplicate, and they leave out the premium bits?

HP and weight levels are always mismatched. Seriously though, most people here know that a 2JZ-GTR can produce a reliable 1000hp, same with the RB26-TT in the R34 Skyline, but we are unable to match real life scenarios. Seems odd.

I personally think they should represent the top tuners in the world in all countries, or none at all. We get shafted with another S2000 and yet another Skyline...

I wish they would fix, and add these types of tuners to the game, or at least adjust the abilities to real life status.

I think PD made choice to include tuning in therm of evolvig not redesigning cars. Many things in cars change when are trying to reach 1k hp or less/more. Not only Turbo or supercharger. Cooling is important and in game is nowhere seen. Same with changing hoods for air vents.

Also i don't see a point in doing real tuning part of GT if we know that most stock cars won't be driving like real car after we install turbokit or suspension mod.

Most of tuning in GT is based on block size and it's potential to inrease HP without any real redesign. And i mean even if it is big block i deasn't mean it has potential.

Also fuel economy is important because those 1k cars would last for just few laps.

1k hp veyron will suck all in 16 minutes at full throtle. And this is reason why Veyron is only top speed car.

 

[The_Seeker76]

I thought they only tested road legal cars for that lap time board.

Yes they do and they didn't put the Zonda on the board because it's not road legal but it's still the fastest car they've tested.

 

[charliec]

I really wish they would lose the focus on so many of the same japanese car... I mean, do we really need 27 Skylines? Take 22 away and add the Arial Atom, E39 M5, Koeningsegg (spelling) and a slew of other cars not represented in the game.

Also, I think they purposely downplay the other cars. In real life, the BMW E46 M3 can be turbocharged, or supercharged. HPF (horsepowerfreaks) has made a daily driven 1000+ HP monster, ironically matching the in game prices (over $47,000 for the stage 4) yet, you cannot do any of it in the game. Not to mention, the interior is not modeled to be a premium. This is the car BMW came out with, which the Japanese are still trying to duplicate, and they leave out the premium bits?

HP and weight levels are always mismatched. Seriously though, most people here know that a 2JZ-GTR can produce a reliable 1000hp, same with the RB26-TT in the R34 Skyline, but we are unable to match real life scenarios. Seems odd.

I personally think they should represent the top tuners in the world in all countries, or none at all. We get shafted with another S2000 and yet another Skyline...

I wish they would fix, and add these types of tuners to the game, or at least adjust the abilities to real life status.

I would love more Europeans models (and American models) but as far as the highly modded cars, yes you can pump ridiculous amounts of boost into many different cars, but how many of those 1000hp Supra's or Skylines do you see being driven for extended periods on a track? I think most track cars tend to favor balance and longevity over high boost and insane peak power figures. That's not to say those 1000hp+ cars don't end up on the track from time to time, but they're usually built for street use and bragging rights. I think in their opinion this made it more realistic rather than less. Just my guess though.

 

[Scotracer]

It's all about balancing. They aren't going to allow you to get cars up to their respective real-life possibilities as some cars would just dominate the competition compared to others (okay, X2010 notwithstanding).

A 500BHP Elise/Exige would be fantastic, but it would kill almost anything on track.