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oneloops

(Banned)
723
United States
United States
Again.. i'm not defending anybody specially. Average GTplayer can't even think in a move like this of course . We are talking about the top of the top. Not even all the top 10 drivers are able to make such a thing with such a precision. Remember this is a world very high level competition not an weekly FIA event we all race and a fight between the 2 most brilliant GT drivers.
No contact and not a crucial part to decide the race.This is a fact. Dirty , fair or not , anybody can have his own opinion if they want to. I repeat , i don't have any.

EDIT: What is the rule you're talking about ?

Again, not having caused contact doesn't make that action clean (because Hizal brakes in a flat out section to avoid a huge crash at +250 km/h).

The main rule is not blocking the path of others, more if it can cause a dangerous accident.

Edit : you are not honest saying you are not defending anybody specially. It's clear that you are defending Fraga's action. And before saying you don't have an opinion and the previous text was open with "my opinion..." and a bold text with other opinion a few lines later. Come on.

Being a "high skill"or "brilliant" action (I don't agree) doesn't take off guilt from an unsporty action. That's such a wrong conclussion...
 
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praiano63

Premium
9,000
Brazil
paracuru
praiano63
Again, not having caused contact doesn't make that action clean (because Hizal brakes in a flat out section to avoid a huge crash at +250 km/h).

The main rule is not blocking the path of others, more if it can cause a dangerous accident.

Edit : you are not honest saying you are not defending anybody specially. It's clear that you are defending Fraga's action. And before saying you don't have an opinion and the previous text was open with "my opinion..." and a bold text with other opinion a few lines later. Come on.

Being a high skill or brilliant action (I don't agree) doesn't take off guilt from an unsporty action. That's such a wrong conclussion...
Take a look at my signature !!
 

DriftShock

(Banned)
190
United Kingdom
Carlton, East Yorkshire
GSRT_MiraiNG
GAMERSWORLDxX
Ok
Can we just end this argument now. It’s happened, Fraga did a stupid and got penalised for it, Lighting screwed up his strategy. We are past this now, and besides: We’re not Igor Fraga or Mikail Hizal. Most of us don’t exhibit the skills that these guys have. Now let’s just let it go. And I presume this could be said to Fraga and Hizal themselves
 

DriftShock

(Banned)
190
United Kingdom
Carlton, East Yorkshire
GSRT_MiraiNG
GAMERSWORLDxX
I literally said this about 30 minutes ago: we are past this. Now can we waste our time doing something slightly more productive, like actually playing Gran Turismo Sport please?
 
361
United States
Idaho
I literally said this about 30 minutes ago: we are past this. Now can we waste our time doing something slightly more productive, like actually playing Gran Turismo Sport please?
Clearly some of us are not past this.

At this point, I just can’t wait for Austria. That’s going to be intense.
 
77
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
In light of the tragic crash at Spa today I'm for applying more realistic penalities for driving in GT Sport that would be incredibly dangerous in real life. Something seems slightly off with having a distinction between the two when the hope is that some players will graduate from GT Sport into real world driving.
 

zzz_pt

Premium
8,125
Germany
Porto living in Hamburg
zzz_pt
In light of the tragic crash at Spa today I'm for applying more realistic penalities for driving in GT Sport that would be incredibly dangerous in real life. Something seems slightly off with having a distinction between the two when the hope is that some players will graduate from GT Sport into real world driving.

Especially if you drive formulas IRL... Like Igor.
 
361
United States
Idaho
In light of the tragic crash at Spa today I'm for applying more realistic penalities for driving in GT Sport that would be incredibly dangerous in real life. Something seems slightly off with having a distinction between the two when the hope is that some players will graduate from GT Sport into real world driving.
That was almost the same spot on the track as the incident between Fraga and Hizal, correct? That’s terrifying.
 
3,156
France
France
In light of the tragic crash at Spa today I'm for applying more realistic penalities for driving in GT Sport that would be incredibly dangerous in real life. Something seems slightly off with having a distinction between the two when the hope is that some players will graduate from GT Sport into real world driving.
I don't want to sound rude but your comment is inappropriate.
 
77
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Apologies for causing offence, I'm not implying any correlation but I can see it can be construed that way. When the time is right, the question is the one asked by Jimmy Broadbent at 7:40 in the below, i.e. should we take the view this is a simulator and there aren't ramifications, or should we mirror what happens in the real world.

 
1,427
To be fair to Igor and everyone else who drives dirty in GT-SPORT

There is absolutely no comparison.

What happened at SPA has nothing to do with what we are discussing here. Our discussion is worthless and couldn't matter less in the light of that horrific accident.

I am a lost for words and cannot begin to understand the loss for his family and love ones...

I think it would be a perfect time lock this down.
 
3,088
Trinidad and Tobago
Port of Spain
davidtsmith333
.....What happened at SPA has nothing to do with what we are discussing here. Our discussion is worthless and couldn't matter less in the light of that horrific accident.

I am a lost for words and cannot begin to understand the loss for his family and love ones...

I think it would be a perfect time lock this down.
Didn't know of this accident at Spa until seeing y'all mention it just now and I went to check the news.
Very sad. My he rest in peace.
 
1,530
United States
Mass UTC-5
HugoStiglitz_420 and GTP_HugoStiglitz
Any deliberate action that may cause a accident is unsporty. More if it can cause a huge accident (+250 km/h)

Fraga did the opposite of what is said in that video : what is the point of getting a better exit in eau rouge lifting off the throttle with a X2019 ? None.

Exactly. Fraga did the opposite of what that video is trying to encourage. Instead of getting a good exit, he did such a poor exit that his opponent had to slam on his brakes to avoid a massive collision. There's just no way anyone can legitimately say it wasn't a dirty and ridiculous move.

It again shows why the off track penalties are ridiculous as well. If the can stewards decide on post race penalties, why can't we also have them decide shortcut penalties???? Because this incident, is a PERFECT example of when a shortcut should be allowed. Mikail should've been allowed to go to the left to avoid the collision.

The stewards should at least be able to remove a shortcut penalty if they deem it fair, like in this case. Like Mikail said, if he went left, he would've got a penalty. I think he should've been able to take that shortcut with the knowledge that the stewards would remove it because he had to take it in order to avoid a collision.

They want the competition to be taken seriously but there's still many cases where the racing is detached from reality and hurts the credibility of the event. Swerving around the track to avoid being drafted is another example and so is not forcing people to use cockpit view.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
there is no correlation. anyone thinking that there is has an agenda .

There is actually, it simply is an example of how dangerous Eau Rouge is in real life, and how Fragas actions in real life at that speed could cause the death of other drivers.

His actions are completely unacceptable and should result in a disqualification. A time penalty is not enough.

Let’s say this was real life and Fraga tried that and caused a massive accident in Eau Rouge, he would face MASSIVE ramifications with likely race suspensions.

In real life actions like these are not a joke. And if your aim with GT/esports is to create a tool for transitioning drivers from esports to the real thing, you need to treat them like it’s real, you can’t allow this behavior.
 
162
Brazil
Brazil
There is actually, it simply is an example of how dangerous Eau Rouge is in real life, and how Fragas actions in real life at that speed could cause the death of other drivers.

His actions are completely unacceptable and should result in a disqualification. A time penalty is not enough.

Let’s say this was real life and Fraga tried that and caused a massive accident in Eau Rouge, he would face MASSIVE ramifications with likely race suspensions.

In real life actions like these are not a joke. And if your aim with GT/esports is to create a tool for transitioning drivers from esports to the real thing, you need to treat them like it’s real, you can’t allow this behavior.

So, should we ban Cody forever as well? More likely that Miyazono would be the one dead by now if GTS was real life.

This episode only shows how some people can be emotional and distort reality to satisfy their bias. Guy at 1:05 on the video saying Fraga's move was "just as bad as what Cody did" is another hilarious example of emotional judgement. Had Miyazono not been such a buddhist and expressed 1% of Hizal's frustration, he would be this forum's favorite victim.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
So, should we ban Cody forever as well? More likely that Miyazono would be the one dead by now if GTS was real life.

This episode only shows how some people can be emotional and distort reality to satisfy their bias. Guy at 1:05 on the video saying Fraga's move was "just as bad as what Cody did" is another hilarious example of emotional judgement. Had Miyazono not been such a buddhist and expressed 1% of Hizal's frustration, he would be this forum's favorite victim.

I don’t follow them enough to weigh on anything permanent. But if Cody was pulling that move every race, yeah the doors over there for him. Just look at Grosjean in F1, he got so bad they suspended him from multiple races to get him to chill out. Guy was a mess and could have killed someone at Spa that year. There’s no room for stupid/dangerous moves in the sport. Consistently acting this way should end in a ban.

Cody’s move was without question worse. And a time penalty isn’t enough for that. Plus he hit the wall in the previous corner, your race is done buddy. DNF for the crash, disqualified for the childish/dangerous ridiculous move. Both he and a Fraga deserve to be disqualified.

If this is allowed to continue, drivers will find ways to work the system and make a mockery of it. The blue moon race was such a joke. Why was that put on there, it made the entire sport look bad. Bunch of children bouncing off walls driving like there are no repercussions (yes it’s a game). If you want to be a driving simulator and stepping stone for real racing you need to treat it as such. Otherwise let’s all play Ridge Racer.

Full damage will solve this. Oh Fraga/Cody crashed and are out of the race? Yeah that sucks but it’s racing. If you can’t do your laps over and over while being clean and avoiding contact, you shouldn’t set foot in a real race car.
 
162
Brazil
Brazil
I don’t follow them enough to weigh on anything permanent. But if Cody was pulling that move every race, yeah the doors over there for him. Just look at Grosjean in F1, he got so bad they suspended him from multiple races to get him to chill out. Guy was a mess and could have killed someone at Spa that year. There’s no room for stupid/dangerous moves in the sport. Consistently acting this way should end in a ban.

Cody’s move was without question worse. And a time penalty isn’t enough for that. Plus he hit the wall in the previous corner, your race is done buddy. DNF for the crash, disqualified for the childish/dangerous ridiculous move. Both he and a Fraga deserve to be disqualified.

If this is allowed to continue, drivers will find ways to work the system and make a mockery of it. The blue moon race was such a joke. Why was that put on there, it made the entire sport look bad. Bunch of children bouncing off walls driving like there are no repercussions (yes it’s a game). If you want to be a driving simulator and stepping stone for real racing you need to treat it as such. Otherwise let’s all play Ridge Racer.

Full damage will solve this. Oh Fraga/Cody crashed and are out of the race? Yeah that sucks but it’s racing. If you can’t do your laps over and over while being clean and avoiding contact, you shouldn’t set foot in a real race car.

Implementing damage and more rigorous penalties for EVERYONE is another discussion. Simulation can't be as clean as real life because you're not putting anyone's life on the line. Don't recall Fraga being involved in any highly controversial accident so far (Cody on the other hand is testing the limits of a more serious penalty), and I think a 5 sec penalty for a dangerous move that didn't result in an accident in a game is fair enough. A bit harsh even, if you ask me, but this can de debated.

The lifting incident was a new thing and should be used to improve PD's rule book moving forward.

As for the wacky race at Blue Moon, it's clear to me that PD wants the repechage race to be more about drama than fairness. Every repechage race so far has been chaotic with a random element deciding the winners. Not sure if I like it either, because the rally and oval races also look bad on camera, but they want a spectacle.
 
5,900
France
Nantes
P308R
Full damage will solve this.

I am also in favor of this. Sure, you can wreck someone else's race but in general the drivers will be more prudent and treat their machinery with more care.

We all make errors while racing and that isn't an issue. We mess up, we make a wrong judgement but that is part of the game. A simple apology can do wonders sometimes and there is nothing wrong in admitting an error was made. Certain behaviour should be sanctioned. Cody and Fraga both should have been disqualified. Would have made them more careful next time around.
 
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54
United States
United States
Implementing damage and more rigorous penalties for EVERYONE is another discussion. Simulation can't be as clean as real life because you're not putting anyone's life on the line. Don't recall Fraga being involved in any highly controversial accident so far (Cody on the other hand is testing the limits of a more serious penalty), and I think a 5 sec penalty for a dangerous move that didn't result in an accident in a game is fair enough. A bit harsh even, if you ask me, but this can de debated.

The lifting incident was a new thing and should be used to improve PD's rule book moving forward.
On paper, a 5 second penalty is fair. But the problem I have is there were multiple laps left when it happened, and we didn’t even get notified of an investigation until after the race. If the penalty had been given the next lap, or maybe 2 laps after, that would have given Hizal the lead, which he would have had if it wasn’t for the lift by Fraga. That would have allowed for them to fight it out for the rest of the race. Instead they waited until after the race to call it. Hizal should have at least gotten the lead from Fraga as a penalty, at least in my opinion.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
Implementing damage and more rigorous penalties for EVERYONE is another discussion. Simulation can't be as clean as real life because you're not putting anyone's life on the line. Don't recall Fraga being involved in any highly controversial accident so far (Cody on the other hand is testing the limits of a more serious penalty), and I think a 5 sec penalty for a dangerous move that didn't result in an accident in a game is fair enough. A bit harsh even, if you ask me, but this can de debated.

The lifting incident was a new thing and should be used to improve PD's rule book moving forward.

As for the wacky race at Blue Moon, it's clear to me that PD wants the repechage race to be more about drama than fairness. Every repechage race so far has been chaotic with a random element deciding the winners. Not sure if I like it either, because the rally and oval races also look bad on camera, but they want a spectacle.


Agreed on it being another discussion as well, but it would have solved most issues with this event. The Blue Moon race would have been completely different with full damage.

Right now drivers take advantage of the lack of damage with dive bomb passes that would never work in real life, along with other dangerous moves like Fragas.

A dangerous move should be penalized the same regardless of the outcome. Just because a accident didn’t happen does not detract from the seriousness of the move, as you could hear many real life drivers touched on. That move in real life, would have drawn serious concern.

I’ve seen Fraga make questionable moves in the past but nothing as flagrant as this. Given that it’s “new” I’d say a disqualification might be too much. 5sec penalty was ok but honestly he should have bare minimum been demoted to 2nd place.

This needs to be a discussion for PD and the FIA along with drivers. Moves like Cody’s abs Fragas in the future need to be met with instant disqualification. Honestly just implement the admittedly crap damage system and force them to pit. If you can’t bring the car home in one piece than you don’t deserve to be in the contest anyways.
 
162
Brazil
Brazil
Agreed on it being another discussion as well, but it would have solved most issues with this event. The Blue Moon race would have been completely different with full damage.

Right now drivers take advantage of the lack of damage with dive bomb passes that would never work in real life, along with other dangerous moves like Fragas.

A dangerous move should be penalized the same regardless of the outcome. Just because a accident didn’t happen does not detract from the seriousness of the move, as you could hear many real life drivers touched on. That move in real life, would have drawn serious concern.

I’ve seen Fraga make questionable moves in the past but nothing as flagrant as this. Given that it’s “new” I’d say a disqualification might be too much. 5sec penalty was ok but honestly he should have bare minimum been demoted to 2nd place.

This needs to be a discussion for PD and the FIA along with drivers. Moves like Cody’s abs Fragas in the future need to be met with instant disqualification. Honestly just implement the admittedly crap damage system and force them to pit. If you can’t bring the car home in one piece than you don’t deserve to be in the contest anyways.
I'm against full damage. PD tested it once and it was horrible. The way I see it, damage is one of the bad things about real racing, as is death. It's unfair to the innocent driver who gets involved, and the fact that the live events are so short only make it worse. Imagine all the dedication to qualify, plus PD's investment in flying you to the event, and your participation could end in the first turn. The best solution, imo, is fine tuning the stewards judgement capabilities. They will learn and improve with time. All this debate about Igor's lifting could have a positive outcome if they include penalty rules for it in future events.