Live Stream: FIA Gran Turismo Championships New York World Tour

1,985
Brazil
Brazil
There is actually, it simply is an example of how dangerous Eau Rouge is in real life, and how Fragas actions in real life at that speed could cause the death of other drivers.

His actions are completely unacceptable and should result in a disqualification. A time penalty is not enough.

Let’s say this was real life and Fraga tried that and caused a massive accident in Eau Rouge, he would face MASSIVE ramifications with likely race suspensions.

In real life actions like these are not a joke. And if your aim with GT/esports is to create a tool for transitioning drivers from esports to the real thing, you need to treat them like it’s real, you can’t allow this behavior.
Fraga lifted because gt isnt real life.
 
3,088
Trinidad and Tobago
Port of Spain
davidtsmith333
To be fair, these guys race at amazing speed and skill. I've watched a couple of these races well and collisions are few and far between.
Reflect on that and compare to your own experiences in private lobbies with people you race regularly with even with those who are supposedly good drivers. Think about it.
 

zzz_pt

Premium
8,125
Germany
Porto living in Hamburg
zzz_pt
So, should we ban Cody forever as well? More likely that Miyazono would be the one dead by now if GTS was real life.

This episode only shows how some people can be emotional and distort reality to satisfy their bias. Guy at 1:05 on the video saying Fraga's move was "just as bad as what Cody did" is another hilarious example of emotional judgement. Had Miyazono not been such a buddhist and expressed 1% of Hizal's frustration, he would be this forum's favorite victim.

As much as I despise Cody's cocky attitude and the dirty moves he's pulled off, he doesn't drive formulas for a living, so he's (hopefully) learning with his mistakes as he goes. Igor is an experienced driver IRL and should know better. I adjust my criticism and expectations according to that fact.

Also, after looking at what happened with Cory at Spa several times, it's possible that he made a genuine, noob, mistake, by trying to get off the racing line. The thing is, when you rejoin the track, you always keep on the side you joined from, not only to avoid what happened, but to avoid bringing dirt or gravel all accross the width of the circuit. The problem was his tires were dirty with no grip and the car behind was coming faster than he thought. If it was on purpose though, I think he should have been DQF immediatly.

Also, from Miyazono POW, whatever happened with Cody could be seen as an accident and not a deliberate stupid block/move, given that Cody had crashed and joined from the grass on to the track. What Mika saw in front of him however, was a clear as water dirty, sneaky block, from someone who (hopefully) wouldn't do it while driving his PD sponsored formula car IRL.

Finally, let's not ignore the fact that Mika kept the car on track and managed to avoid an accident and a penalty by not cutting the corner (which Igor used in his favor because he knew Mika would get a penalty for cutting the corner). A corner cut after that illegal, dirty block should be allowed, but Mika played safe and clean.

Fraga lifted because gt isnt real life.

Doesn't make it less dirty. Quite the opposite imo. People have realistic expecations when driving at this level, both for racing craft and for sportsmanship. They all love racing and watch racing series. Igor even drives formulas. So, when you're confronted by a dirty move no one would ever try IRL in a formula/high downforce car through Eau Rouge/Radillion, you get even more pissed. I know I did because I expect the best from the best and from Igor especially since he's the only one racing IRL, and sponsored by PD.
 
162
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As much as I despise Cody's cocky attitude and the dirty moves he's pulled off, he doesn't drive formulas for a living, so he's (hopefully) learning with his mistakes as he goes. Igor is an experienced driver IRL and should know better. I adjust my criticism and expectations according to that fact.

Also, after looking at what happened with Cory at Spa several times, it's possible that he made a genuine, noob, mistake, by trying to get off the racing line. The thing is, when you rejoin the track, you always keep on the side you joined from, not only to avoid what happened, but to avoid bringing dirt or gravel all accross the width of the circuit. The problem was his tires were dirty with no grip and the car behind was coming faster than he thought. If it was on purpose though, I think he should have been DQF immediatly.

Also, from Miyazono POW, whatever happened with Cody could be seen as an accident and not a deliberate stupid block/move, given that Cody had crashed and joined from the grass on to the track. What Mika saw in front of him however, was a clear as water dirty, sneaky block, from someone who (hopefully) wouldn't do it while driving his PD sponsored formula car IRL.

Finally, let's not ignore the fact that Mika kept the car on track and managed to avoid an accident and a penalty by not cutting the corner (which Igor used in his favor because he knew Mika would get a penalty for cutting the corner). A corner cut after that illegal, dirty block should be allowed, but Mika played safe and clean.



Doesn't make it less dirty. Quite the opposite imo. People have realistic expecations when driving at this level, both for racing craft and for sportsmanship. They all love racing and watch racing series. Igor even drives formulas. So, when you're confronted by a dirty move no one would ever try IRL in a formula/high downforce car through Eau Rouge/Radillion, you get even more pissed. I know I did because I expect the best from the best and from Igor especially since he's the only one racing IRL, and sponsored by PD.

Can't tell if Cody's move was intentional or not. It looked ugly though, and if we talk about real life, he would be responsible for it, if he survived. As for Igor's, I feel like it was borderline legal. Don't know if he took the inspiration from real racing or what, but it seems like something that he thought that could be legal or wouldn't be so controversial. It wasn't a brake check, but it was close. Wouldn't be wise for him to do something deliberately dirty at the moment and risk losing the race. Again, it serves as a good lesson for everyone.

Would be interesting to hear the opinion of a real life formula driver. A similar trick has been used by Hamilton and he was proud of it (the execution was probably better though. Perhaps Igor didn't time it correctly):

"Going down the straight [between La Source and Eau Rouge] I let off the power a little bit as well just to keep him on my tail. If he was further away he would have had the chance to gain momentum and pass on slipstream and that's what he would have wanted so I didn't give him that.

"So when we got to the top of the hill and he was there, he was facing the full force of the air just as I was so he had no hope. I was really pleased with that move."

In the pre-podium holding room, Vettel said to Hamilton "that was close" as they watched a replay of their duel, to which Hamilton replied: "I lifted, that's why you were close."
 

zzz_pt

Premium
8,125
Germany
Porto living in Hamburg
zzz_pt
Can't tell if Cody's move was intentional or not. It looked ugly though, and if we talk about real life, he would be responsible for it, if he survived. As for Igor's, I feel like it was borderline legal. Don't know if he took the inspiration from real racing or what, but it seems like something that he thought that could be legal or wouldn't be so controversial. It wasn't a brake check, but it was close. Wouldn't be wise for him to do something deliberately dirty at the moment and risk losing the race. Again, it serves as a good lesson for everyone.

Would be interesting to hear the opinion of a real life formula driver. A similar trick has been used by Hamilton and he was proud of it (the execution was probably better though. Perhaps Igor didn't time it correctly):

"Going down the straight [between La Source and Eau Rouge] I let off the power a little bit as well just to keep him on my tail. If he was further away he would have had the chance to gain momentum and pass on slipstream and that's what he would have wanted so I didn't give him that.

"So when we got to the top of the hill and he was there, he was facing the full force of the air just as I was so he had no hope. I was really pleased with that move."

In the pre-podium holding room, Vettel said to Hamilton "that was close" as they watched a replay of their duel, to which Hamilton replied: "I lifted, that's why you were close."

People keep bringing up Hamilton as if it was even remotely similar. Amount of lift was not the same, the time of the lift was not the same, the places where the lift was made were not the same, the speed difference was not the same and the slipstream effect was not the same.

Lewis did lift a bit going downhill, on the straight, with clear visibility and space on the side for Vettel to overtake/avoid contact if he had the speed. It's just not comparable.

Basically Igor tried to do what Lewis did but then did it again going up all the way to Radillion. Lewis was going full throttle by that time.
 
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680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
I'm against full damage. PD tested it once and it was horrible. The way I see it, damage is one of the bad things about real racing, as is death. It's unfair to the innocent driver who gets involved, and the fact that the live events are so short only make it worse. Imagine all the dedication to qualify, plus PD's investment in flying you to the event, and your participation could end in the first turn. The best solution, imo, is fine tuning the stewards judgement capabilities. They will learn and improve with time. All this debate about Igor's lifting could have a positive outcome if they include penalty rules for it in future events.

That’s life though. Isn’t the goal of this to turn esports drivers into real drivers? Yes. So you need to simulate real life to the best of our ability, and that means full damage. Other sims do it without issue.

So PD tested it, but you have to stick with it not just give up after trying it. It takes time to break bad habits, and a lot of these “top” drivers exhibit some terrible habits that would never fly in real racing.

Yes it sucks when your the innocent victim of a crash. But guess what, that’s life. It happens in real racing and always will, best to break bad habits now and prepare them for the real thing vs coddling then mmmmm which only makes it worse.

Initially there will be some chaos. BUT if you stick with it drivers will be forced to drive with a sense of danger like they would in real life. Instead we are removing the sense of danger and consequences which in turn fosters bad/dangerous driving.

Other sims run full damage and the racing is far better. So the excuse that it doesn’t work because innocent people will get tied up in wrecks simply doesn’t work, it’s a myth.

As for Igor's, I feel like it was borderline legal. Don't know if he took the inspiration from real racing or what, but it seems like something that he thought that could be legal or wouldn't be so controversial. It wasn't a brake check, but it was close. Wouldn't be wise for him to do something deliberately dirty at the moment and risk losing the race. Again, it serves as a good lesson for everyone.

Would be interesting to hear the opinion of a real life formula driver. A similar trick has been used by Hamilton and he was proud of it (the execution was probably better though. Perhaps Igor didn't time it correctly):

"Going down the straight [between La Source and Eau Rouge] I let off the power a little bit as well just to keep him on my tail. If he was further away he would have had the chance to gain momentum and pass on slipstream and that's what he would have wanted so I didn't give him that.

"So when we got to the top of the hill and he was there, he was facing the full force of the air just as I was so he had no hope. I was really pleased with that move."

In the pre-podium holding room, Vettel said to Hamilton "that was close" as they watched a replay of their duel, to which Hamilton replied: "I lifted, that's why you were close."

There was nothing borderline about Igor’s move. If Lewis has done that same move he would have been penalized.

I don’t think you fully grasp the seriousness of what he did. Lewis move was on the straight. That is a HUGE difference to lifting in the middle of one of the most dangerous corners in the world. It’s not even remotely comparable.

I come from the real life racing world. Grew up in it, family raced 962/911’s/Prototypes etc, I’ve been through Eau Rouge for real. That corner is unlike anything else, your visibility is tiny regarding above the crest. For a driver to lift at that point intentionally to block is borderline manslaughter charges waiting to happen. It’s beyond stupid/wreckless. It’s unthinkable in the real world. Trying to compare that to Hamilton lifting on the straight is nonsensical.
 
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Brazil
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People keep bringing up Hamilton as if it was even remotely similar. Amount of lift was not the same, the time of the lift was not the same, the places where the lift was made were not the same, the speed difference was not the same and the slipstream effect was not the same.

Lewis did lift a bit going downhill, on the straight, with clear visibility and space on the side for Vettel to overtake/avoid contact if he had the speed. It's just not comparable.

Basically Igor tried to do what Lewis did but then did it again going up all the way to Radillion. Lewis was going full throttle by that time.
Yes, seems like he tried to pull a Hamilton but timed it wrong, who knows.

That’s life though. Isn’t the goal of this to turn esports drivers into real drivers? Yes. So you need to simulate real life to the best of our ability, and that means full damage. Other sims do it without issue.

So PD tested it, but you have to stick with it not just give up after trying it. It takes time to break bad habits, and a lot of these “top” drivers exhibit some terrible habits that would never fly in real racing.

Yes it sucks when your the innocent victim of a crash. But guess what, that’s life. It happens in real racing and always will, best to break bad habits now and prepare them for the real thing vs coddling then mmmmm which only makes it worse.

Initially there will be some chaos. BUT if you stick with it drivers will be forced to drive with a sense of danger like they would in real life. Instead we are removing the sense of danger and consequences which in turn fosters bad/dangerous driving.

Other sims run full damage and the racing is far better. So the excuse that it doesn’t work because innocent people will get tied up in wrecks simply doesn’t work, it’s a myth.

There was nothing borderline about Igor’s move. If Lewis has done that same move he would have been penalized.

I don’t think you fully grasp the seriousness of what he did. Lewis move was on the straight. That is a HUGE difference to lifting in the middle of one of the most dangerous corners in the world. It’s not even remotely comparable.

I come from the real life racing world. Grew up in it, family raced 962/911’s/Prototypes etc, I’ve been through Eau Rouge for real. That corner is unlike anything else, your visibility is tiny regarding above the crest. For a driver to lift at that point intentionally to block is borderline manslaughter charges waiting to happen. It’s beyond stupid/wreckless. It’s unthinkable in the real world. Trying to compare that to Hamilton lifting on the straight is nonsensical.

They didn't crash. It was a dangerous move and I consider it dirty. When I say borderline legal I mean that if it was a fraction of a second better executed, Hizal would be able to catch him right after raidillon and not in the middle of it, then it could be considered legal like Hamilton's. If this didn't happen in a battle for P1 near the end of the race the stewards probably wouldn't even notice it and no one would be talking about it. A deliberate dirty move on the other hand, like a dive bomb, would be obvious in any circumstance.
 

TRL LIGHTNING

Premium
485
Germany
Germany
TRL_LIGHTNING
Yes, seems like he tried to pull a Hamilton but timed it wrong, who knows.



They didn't crash. It was a dangerous move and I consider it dirty. When I say borderline legal I mean that if it was a fraction of a second better executed, Hizal would be able to catch him right after raidillon and not in the middle of it, then it could be considered legal like Hamilton's. If this didn't happen in a battle for P1 near the end of the race the stewards probably wouldn't even notice it and no one would be talking about it. A deliberate dirty move on the other hand, like a dive bomb, would be obvious in any circumstance.

I made contact with him even though when I was braking. You can see the boost Fraga was getting on the replay on his speed after my contact with him.
Adam Suswillo was watching the whole race from my view so he can also tell it.
 
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Brazil
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I made contact with him even though when I was braking. You can see the boost Fraga was getting on the replay on his speed after my contact with him.
Adam Suswillo was watching the whole race from my view so he can also tell it.
We could see contact, but from the broadcast camera it's harder to judge the speed and reaction time. I assume the stewards watch from the driver's perspective. If not, they should be watching, at least for P1 and P2, so they can judge it quicker and more precisely.
 
77
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I made contact with him even though when I was braking. You can see the boost Fraga was getting on the replay on his speed after my contact with him.
Adam Suswillo was watching the whole race from my view so he can also tell it.

It would be helpful to have more replays/telemetry available!
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
Fraga lifted because gt isnt real life.

Considering sim racing is fast becoming a legitimate stepping stone to real racing, he needs to start treating it like real life.


Yes, seems like he tried to pull a Hamilton but timed it wrong, who knows.



They didn't crash. It was a dangerous move and I consider it dirty. When I say borderline legal I mean that if it was a fraction of a second better executed, Hizal would be able to catch him right after raidillon and not in the middle of it, then it could be considered legal like Hamilton's. If this didn't happen in a battle for P1 near the end of the race the stewards probably wouldn't even notice it and no one would be talking about it. A deliberate dirty move on the other hand, like a dive bomb, would be obvious in any circumstance.


No no no. You simply don’t get it. You DO NOT LIFT MID CORNER to block. This is extremely basic racing etiquette. The fact that they didn’t crash changes NOTHING, it is irrelevant. Wether or not there was a crash is completely irrelevant. Also if I recall, they did make contact though very small.

What about the incident with Cody. What if the other driver slammed on the brakes and avoided a crash. Would that in anyway change the seriousness of what happened? No. What if Hizal said screw it and chose to stay flat and hit Fraga?

Fraga also caused contact in his first attempt when he slowed down the previous lap. That would have caused Hizal to lose the front wing on his car and would have resulted in a penalty for Fraga. He’s driving like an idiot. You don’t slow down on the exit of a corner with a driver right on your bumper. This is ridiculous childish behavior and unsportsmanlike.

Actually if this happened to the back markers of a big race everyone would still notice because the broadcasters would catch it, they catch almost every tiny detail these days.

It wasn’t a fraction of a second difference, it’s wrong part of the track entirely. He needed to pull that on the straight not mid corner.

This is very very basic racing etiquette that you are not grasping. And stop referencing Hamilton, the two scenarios are not comparable at all.

Fast forward to 6:50. They make contact.
 
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1,985
Brazil
Brazil
Doesn't make it less dirty. Quite the opposite imo. People have realistic expecations when driving at this level, both for racing craft and for sportsmanship. They all love racing and watch racing series. Igor even drives formulas. So, when you're confronted by a dirty move no one would ever try IRL in a formula/high downforce car through Eau Rouge/Radillion, you get even more pissed. I know I did because I expect the best from the best and from Igor especially since he's the only one racing IRL, and sponsored by PD.

I agree,i just think Igor knew what he could pull off in the game compared to real life so he quickly thought of making the move,it was smart and would be genius if GT Sport didnt have any racing rules but this is not the case and he should be punished.
One thing PD should have done is give him a grid penalty for next event,so far every penalty is held to a specific event.Grid penalties would definetly make Igor think twice before pulling that move.

And stop referencing Hamilton, the two scenarios are not comparable

They kinda are comparable,both hamilton and igor were wrong.
 
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3,037
Canada
Canada
Kaizen-Teian
3,037
Canada
Canada
Kaizen-Teian
Is there a way to watch replay videos of international feeds outside my region? From the Japanese, Spanish, Italian ... announcers at the event.

Re-watched the Pro-am race. That was a great race.

Also noticed Mr. Yamauchi was wearing a Cirque du Soleil shirt and I thought the music used in the update video was more cinematic than usual. Thought that was cool.