Logitech DFP-GT versus G25

Discussion in 'GT5 Prologue' started by Strop, Apr 20, 2008.

  1. Strop

    Australia San Jose, CA

    I've been racing the G25 for about half a year now and prior to that spent several years with the DFP. Recently I discovered that the G25 doesn't work with GT5P unless you have the shift box connected (which I don't have).

    The choices were buy a new G25 to get the shift box or buy a DFP-GT. I chose the latter figuring if it didn't work out I could return it and get the G25. That and I get a chance to compare the two that everyone is probably weighing up just like I was.

    First the pedals. Not much change from the original DFP, if at all. Sadly the pinouts from the connector have changed and the plug (DB-9) is keyed to not accept the G25 plug, making a quick plug and play difficult.

    I have the G25 pedals directly mounted onto my Sparco Cockpit GT and I was loathe to give this up. Even though the faux hydraulic cylinders on the G25 pedals aren't (they springs inside plastic cylinders), they're still worlds better than the DFP version.

    In the end I took the cable from the GT and connected the spade connectors directly to the pots on the G25 pedals. Fortunately they both appear to use the same 10K pots so after a little fiddling (the brake pot is upside down compared to the DFP-GT version) everything was working. The driver seems to auto-calibrate on startup so I didn't notice any problems with range either, the pedal travel matches the full range on screen.

    Now for the wheel. Amar is right that it doesn't feel as smooth as the G25. There is more of a notchiness as you turn it, but worlds better than the original DFP. Feedback seems very similar and it's as quiet as the G25 (maybe even a little quieter and again vast improvement over the DFP). Feedback strength seems similar too, and the like the G25 is easy to turn quickly (which is unlike the DFP which felt like molasses). I run FFB at 10 but then again I'm a weightlifter who also used to drive a pre-power-steering 911 so I'm not frightened of a little turning resistance.

    Grip is excellent, it's contoured nicely and has a very grippable texture - a big improvement on the G25 which I found a bit slippery at times. It is centred around the hub which is nice, my G25 wasn't and looked a bit silly when calibrating. To state the obvious it's very nice having all of the buttons right there at your fingertips. Not having a ghost on/off button at the wheel was a huge pain for GT-4 time trials (I race WRS here). I know that is fixed of course in GT5 which allows you to remap the buttons but I'll probably continue GT4 WRS for a while.

    In spite of what Logitech's own web site says, it does have paddle shifters behind the wheel. Well, switches anyway and with my small hands and short fingers they're only just reachable and took a bit of getting used to. I prefer the G25 setup but I can live with the DFP-GT.

    Lastly, it's a very nice looking wheel, much nicer than the G25. The lit GT logo is a nice touch and despite the marketing photos I've seen everywhere (including the box) showing it as a dull mousy grey it's actually quite black. I agree with Amar that backlit buttons would have been nice but you can't have everything.

    So far it's early days but at least my preliminary conclusion is that it's a keeper and I'm retiring my G25. I can already hear the cries (the bugger's mad) but money wasn't an issue, I could care less about 'genuine leather' and the H shifter box was a pain in the bum that didn't fit on Sparco Cockpit and just got in the way. It really came down to the loss of smoothness versus the benefits of being fully supported by GT5P and having all the controls where I want them. I also got the best of both worlds in being able to use G25 pedals with the DFP-GT wheel but I'm guessing most people don't have cockpit frames so won't see as much difference.

    Pictures here:

  2. BreakerOhio


    Show us some pictures of your setup.
  3. +1 in for pics.
  4. GT-Roadie

    Germany East Bavaria

    Nice report! :tup:
    Have you tested the pedals of the G25 to the old DFP too? I don't want that you have do this for me, this can crash your pedals or the steering wheel, but if you have done it before my answer, so it's ok. I have the VPP Pedalset Professional and so I can assume that these pedals will work with the Driving Force GT too.

    Attached Files:

  5. kikie

    Belgium Thuis

    Very, very good review. I love the G25 and it does everything that I need in GT5p.
  6. What cant the G25 do in GT5P?
  7. excellent reveiw brother, but i'm banking on PD bringing out a version of a G25 (read NEW and IMPROVED) around full GT5 release. Till then I will have to make do with the new G25 (best thing since sliced bread/DFP) I went halves in with my cuz.
  8. Strop

    Australia San Jose, CA

  9. Strop

    Australia San Jose, CA

    I haven't tested any others but it will probably work. It is just a simple electrical connection to three terminal 10K pots, with Vcc and Gnd at either end and the control signal (brake, clutch or accelerator) on the sweeper. The shifter was more of an issue because that actually has a control chip in it and sends the button data out on a serial connection (probably I2C).
  10. Strop

    Australia San Jose, CA

    If you have the full setup, nothing. My problem stems from not having the external shifter box. It worked fine in GT-4 but in GT5P the box is required or it defaults into H pattern mode and locks out the paddle shifters and even the buttons on the Sixaxis controller.
  11. flubbachany


    Why don't you have the shifter box?
  12. Strop

    Australia San Jose, CA

    My wheel broke (actually my kids destroyed the wiring). When I called Logitech to order a new wiring harness (figuring it might cost $5 at most) they told me they didn't have any spares for the G25 (or any other wheel for that matter). They offered to send me a whole new wheel under warranty.

    I checked to make sure they understood the part about "my kids destroyed the wiring" but apparently the service rep didn't have a button for that on his menu, only a "send a new wheel" button so they did.

    My part of the agreement was to send back the shifter unit, upon receipt of which they shipped a new G25. In the end since it was a lot of work to re-mount the discrete pedals on my Sparco frame I just dragged out the Weller and resoldered the wiring to repair it. After I verified (with GT4) that the shifter box wasn't required to operate I sold the new wheel to a friend.

    And that's why I don't have a shifter.
  13. kikie

    Belgium Thuis

    Let me get gold in B-3, B-8, A-3.

  14. superwally

    PSN:GTP_Superwally, supahwally

    Strop, thanks for the review-I didn't know the DFGT was out yet, so I called Gamestop this morning and purchased the one wheel they had in stock. My only wishes? A longer USB cable, with the PS3 being mostly wireless, it's a lot farther from my seating area than my PS2 used to be. I'll need to get a USB extension cable so I can back up from the TV a bit.

    The only other thing is the location of the pin connector and power input-I was hoping they moved it up a bit from the DFP location, I always had problems where the cable ends are kind of jammed against the table and eventually my FFB would become intermittent as the power input gets wobbly. I'm kind of rough on things, so this last problem is likely just me being a meathead.

    Two high points, or at least things I find funny. The first thing is the "Not for Kids" sticker is still on there, and the second thing is the length of cable from the wheel to the pedals, about 7 feet. Um, how far can a person's feet possibly be from their hands while driving? Or maybe they want to give the option for one person to steer and the other to gas/brake?
  15. Strop

    Australia San Jose, CA

    I got mine from Fry's, they're on special right now for $129.95 which is a pretty good deal. The cable is a bit short, I use an active extender like this one


    The power connector does seem a little better than the DFP, my DFP connector always felt like it was about to fall out (but I guess you know that :)). The long pedal connector is actually useful if you're routing it around a cage or frame, better too long than too short - and don't laugh but my twins play that way, one steers and the other operates the pedals.

    The no-kids sticker has it's uses - I explained to my six year olds that it means grown-ups (so to speak :)) get first dibs at the wheel.
  16. nissan tuner

    PSN:coming soon

    man, this is great news. ill have to pick this wheel up right away

    3 questions.

    did you have to cut any wires for the G25 pedals to work with the DFGT or was it plug and play?

    does the clutch pedal work?

    how big is the DFGT wheel in inches? (bigger than the original DFP?)
  17. superwally

    PSN:GTP_Superwally, supahwally

    Now the pedal connector makes sense-for the first reason mostly, but if your kids enjoy the "Drivers Ed." arrangement, then I'm all for it. :)

    Had a chance to use the new wheel for awhile, I shaved a second or so off my PP700 time at Suzuka, and made the top 35, at least for now. It's so much better on-center than the DFP and you can really dial small adjustments into the wheel without that dead spot to fight through. I like the feedback, so far I've only tried the firmest (10) setting. Everything is just a lot smoother, and far quieter.

    I'm not sensing much of difference in the pedals, but the brake travel seems to match the stopping action better on initial takeup now, I'm not getting lockup quite so abruptly-I think. I'm not the most consistent driver.

    If this thing doesn't loosen up too much with age, count me as impressed.
  18. Strop

    Australia San Jose, CA

    I didn't have to cut wires but I did have to take the plastic housing apart so I could swap the cables over. The cable has spade lugs to connect to the pots on the various pedals.

    There is nowhere to connect the clutch pedal so no. The plug on the DFP-GT has two less pins than the G25 plug, and the pinouts are different anyway.

    It's exactly the same size as the G25, I put them face to face and you can't tell which one is bigger. That would make it 11 inches in diameter then.

    I've done some more racing since my last post, basically this weeks WRS at Apricot Hill. I managed to get a good time (for me) so thumbs up there but I struggled a bit on my second session and I'd put it down to tired arms. I too am running it at FFB=10 and it's surprisingly strong considering the weight and size difference between the GT and G25 housings.

    Maybe the driver is different for the pedals because the pots are certainly the same as the DFP and from memory so are the mechanics of the pedals. I noticed they did add a solid metal block at the base of the pedal assembly, whose only purpose seems to be to add weight to the package.
  19. nissan tuner

    PSN:coming soon

    thanks for the answers:tup:

    im happy that the FFB was updated from what we had in the DFP into something comparable with the G25. that justifys the purchase for me

    EDIT: oh yes forgot, is there still a way to switch from the wheel from 200 degrees to 900 degrees?

  20. Actually, the pedals have been redesigned internally: the potentiometers are no longer direct drive, but are now gear driven with a anti-backlash mechansim similar to G25.
  21. spyrrari

    Netherlands AMSTERDAM

    does anybody reading this and lives in holland have any idea when this wheel is coming out here,and where to buy it??
    i checked out several shops and sites but found nothing...

  22. jgda9rs


    the G25 here last i checked, the store didn't even have it, and they didnt have it in transit either, which means they wont get any for a while, if not at all. i saw one on display, and it had a 300 dollar (Canadian) price tag on it. they told me to wait a while.
    but i really want the h-shift feature of the g25. now my question is, how would some cars, say the amuse gt1 operate with the h-shift if it has a 7 speed gearbox?
  23. Rapid Roo


    I was wondering about the noise level of these wheels. I have an logitech wheel (at least four years old) and I stopped using it a long time ago because it was annoyingly loud. The motors and gears in it were too noisy. Nowadays I tend to play with headphones on as not to disturb my wife as she is watching tv in the same room as my PC/PS3 setup. Would either of these be useful in this situation.

    RR :)
  24. Hey thanks for all the info in the thread! I was just reading i nanother topic about all the advantages such as on the fly vehicle adjustments and started to look for a wheel in further detail.

    Perfect timing for this thread!!
  25. Biggles


    I paid $230 CDN for mine about 10 months ago, so you should be able to get for a lot less than $300.

    The G25 is less noisy than the DFP, but it's still pretty loud. The actual rotation is smoother & quieter, but wrenching it from side to side or banging over curbs produces quite a lot of noise. In addition, the pedals can be quite noisy, in particular if you use the clutch. I use mine with headphones, which is great, because it masks the (unrealistic) wheel noise from my hearing, however my wife complains about the noise when she is upstairs. :irked:

    Only solution I can see :idea: is to get the wife to wear headphones. ;)
  26. Rapid Roo


    nice. why didn't I think of that! :dunce:

  27. jibber


    You have to switch to sequential mode. You cannot shift into 7th gear in H-Shifter mode, since it obviously only has 6 gears/stick positions (excluding reverse).

    What i do is to change the gear ratio, so the 6th gear has the topspeed of the 7th.
  28. Jlagreen


    btw. I have a question concerning the G25 and want to know if it is the same with the DFP or GT.

    Well I found out that the sensitivity of the acceleration Pedal isn't that good in GT5P. For example if I press the pedal ~1/4 I already have half throttle and max. throttle is reached in GT5P even before the pedal is completely pressed.
    I first thought that it is usual but then I tested GTR2 yesterday and to my surprise it works much better as translation from pressing pedal to throttle is more gradually.

    This is a reason I can't handle MRs in GT5P aswell as in GTR2 so I can't drive the Ford GTs and Lotus that is annoying.

    Is it the same with DFP? Can you setup sensitivity somewhere?
  29. Biggles


    I don't see anywhere you can adjust "pedal travel". I think the sensitivity is OK, you just have to get used to it - probably difficult switching back & forth from GT5P to GTR2. Personally, I found the clutch travel to be hard to adjust to.
  30. Strop,

    Can send your address to my work email ? Forgot to get your address to check out your setup.

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