Logitech Driving Force GT Frustration

[Aquarelle]

This is part vent, part question.. please bear with me if I go on a bit..

I'm frustrated beyond belief and I wanted to talk to people who can help me out rather than try and explain the problem to a Mrs that doesn't quite grasp why this is getting to me.

I got a Logitech Driving Force GT and.. well.. I'm finding it absolutely un-usable.

Trying to get opposite lock takes so much damn effort that I'm simply not willing to go through it for 3 hour stints playing online.. turning it 360 degrees only seems to get it to quarter lock and I smash into a wall with understeer..

My question is, is there a way to alter the sensitivity of the wheel? either hardware wise (Attaching a larger wheel maybe? I wouldn't know if that's possible..) or software wise?
I couldn't find anything for wheel sensitivity in the menus but I'm a bit flustered as is so I may of missed it..

I had hoped to practice driving my MR2 in the game in preparation for racing it but at this rate I may just need to make do with the controller and just learn from scratch when I hit the track for real.

 

[Dean]

You could try lowering the FFB, though, I don't know if it'll help on the sensibility-problem.

 

[Aquarelle]

You could try lowering the FFB.

I have it on 10 at the minute, but fighting the feedback is a cakewalk..
Though having it lower would make spinning it a lot easier, it's not the solution I need since the problem is just how far I need to turn the wheel.

It becomes incredibly difficult to figure out just where the wheels are at any given point and, through I'm sure I'll figure it out with enough practice, it will become no more useful than simply using the controller..

 

[Bluntified]

What are you doing? Racing, drifting? When racing, I've never had to hit full lock. Drifting on the other hand requires it.

For your under steer problem, tune your cars! Most production cars are tuned to under steer, not to mention the game over exaggerates it, so you need to counter that (suspension, LSD). Check out the tuning forum for some quick tunes!

Edit: Been on my G27 for about 3 years.

 

[Aquarelle]

What are you doing? Racing, drifting? When racing, I've never had to hit full lock. Drifting on the other hand requires it.

For your under steer problem, tune your cars! Most production cars are tuned to under steer, not to mention the game over exaggerates it, so you need to counter that (suspension, LSD). Check out the tuning forum for some quick tunes!

Edit: Been on my G27 for about 3 years.

I guess it would be drifting. When I start oversteering I'll often simply spin out due to it taking me 20 million years to turn the wheel around the other way to begin countersteering.

My MR2 is completely stock so that could be the problem, but I'm not sure if I should tune it too much and make it too distant from the real thing, but I'll keep that in mind for if I can't find any alternative

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

If you turn the wheel 360 degrees you will smash into the wall with understeer because you're exceeding the grip of the tyres. You shouldn't need to go beyond a quarter turn for all but the sharpest corners. And even then you'll only use about half a turn.

 

[Aquarelle]

If you turn the wheel 360 degrees you will smash into the wall with understeer because you're exceeding the grip of the tyres. You shouldn't need to go beyond a quarter turn for all but the sharpest corners. And even then you'll only use about half a turn.

The issue goes further than the understeer, which I'm experiencing entering corners at the same speed I have been for a year now with the same car.

The main problem is countersteering taking such an incredibly long time, which is quite simply because of how long it takes to get the wheel to go the other way.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Countersteering shouldn't be that hard, you should be able to get opposite lock on pretty much instantly.

 

[Aquarelle]

Countersteering shouldn't be that hard, you should be able to get opposite lock on pretty much instantly.

Except by the time I get there it's time to start spinning it the other way.

I'm glad you've managed to figure all this out but I am unwilling to put myself through the hassle of learning the arbitrary points of the wheel unless I absolutely have to.

Getting to the onscreen 'lock' requires being on the opposite side of the wheel, which completely throws me off.
But that's my problem.

 

[Geopan973]

Welcome to the club. I have had the DFGT 2 years now, and I NEVER managed to drift using it. The response is too slow (or my reflexes are too slow) and the car always snaps immediately after counter-steering to the outside of the turn. In real life when you counter-steer you only have to release the wheel in order to get the car going straight again. With the DFGT you have to turn AGAIN to the inside of the turn and do it quickly, because otherwise the car snaps.
Maybe it's not the wheel's fault and I am just useless at drifting .
The bottom line is that when I drift I always use my trusty DS3.

 

[Aquarelle]

Welcome to the club. I have had the DFGT 2 years now, and I NEVER managed to drift using it. The response is too slow (or my reflexes are too slow) and the car always snaps immediately after counter-steering to the outside of the turn. In real life when you counter-steer you only have to release the wheel in order to get the car going straight again. With the DFGT you have to turn AGAIN to the inside of the turn and do it quickly, because otherwise the car snaps.
Maybe it's not the wheel's fault and I am just useless at drifting .
The bottom line is that when I drift I always use my trusty DS3.

It's just strange because I can do this stuff in real life =/ so I had assumed it would be a simple transition to the real world.
That's why I'm wondering if it really is just how awkward it is to countersteer with such a small wheel that requires so much rotation to get opposite lock..

Or if I'm imagining the problem and it isn't really that hard since so many others seem to manage.
I honestly don't know any more =/

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Welcome to the club. I have had the DFGT 2 years now, and I NEVER managed to drift using it. The response is too slow (or my reflexes are too slow) and the car always snaps immediately after counter-steering to the outside of the turn. In real life when you counter-steer you only have to release the wheel in order to get the car going straight again. With the DFGT you have to turn AGAIN to the inside of the turn and do it quickly, because otherwise the car snaps.
Maybe it's not the wheel's fault and I am just useless at drifting .
The bottom line is that when I drift I always use my trusty DS3.

Your problem sounds like you're over correcting, try countersteering less. By countersteering too much, when the car pulls out of the slide you still haven't reset the wheel to the centre and the car snaps the other way, if you countersteer less when the car pulls out of the slide you can get the wheel straight again. 👍

It's just strange because I can do this stuff in real life =/ so I had assumed it would be a simple transition to the real world.
That's why I'm wondering if it really is just how awkward it is to countersteer with such a small wheel that requires so much rotation to get opposite lock..

Or if I'm imagining the problem and it isn't really that hard since so many others seem to manage.
I honestly don't know any more =/

I still don't understand what your exact problem is. The way you say that it "requires so much rotation to get opposite lock" and the bit about turning 360 degrees means massive understeer makes me think you're trying to turn the wheel all the way round to turn into a corner and to countersteer?

As I've said, you'll only be using 90 degrees either side of centre for most of the track and for countersteering.

 

[Dean]

I can't get the "opposite lock", as well... I don't see it as a problem, unless I'm trying to drift. - That's also why I use DS3, when I'm drifting.

 

[Aquarelle]

I still don't understand what your exact problem is. The way you say that it "requires so much rotation to get opposite lock" and the bit about turning 360 degrees means massive understeer makes me think you're trying to turn the wheel all the way round to turn into a corner and to countersteer?

As I've said, you'll only be using 90 degrees either side of centre for most of the track and for countersteering.

When I'm driving "Clean" I don't have any issue.
I think you may be skimming over what I'm saying but please don't take offence if I'm wrong.

I'm trying to control oversteer with countersteering, but I'm finding the wheel difficult to use as when I'm countersteering I have to rotate the wheel to such an intense degree to get to where I would hold the wheel in real life to manage the 'drift'

The problem stems from the degree of rotation required to get opposite lock, I'm finding it unwieldy and uncomfortable.

To clarify, I'm not trying to rotate the wheel all the way around 900 degrees, I'm saying to get to the point of countersteer I would normally use, I have to have my arms in an incredibly uncomfortable position or be forced to let go of the wheel.

This may well be a me problem but the point of the matter is I find it an immense problem and I had hoped for some tips or tricks from people who have a similar mindset.

Again, clean and smooth driving isn't the problem for me, in that situation I do as you do.
It's maintaining oversteer without instantly spinning that I'm finding impossible with GT5s calibration for the wheel. Hence my asking if it's possible to fit a larger wheel or edit the sensitivity via software

Edit: Response to Dean

I can't get the "opposite lock", as well... I don't see it as a problem, unless I'm trying to drift. - That's also why I use DS3, when I'm drifting.

I'd use my DS3 happily, but it would defeat the purpose of the exercise. Being to get more familiar with the car at speeds so I'll be more prepared for doing it for real than I would otherwise be.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Ok, I see your problem now, but don't know why you have a problem. To correct oversteer you shouldn't have to move your hands from the 9:15 position. Especially if you're catching it early.

If you're late getting there you might have a problem with correction in that you have to use a significant angle of opposite lock.

If you just got the wheel (as I understand it you have?), you just need to practise. That way you can learn the tell tale feeling of oncoming oversteer in the wheel and correct it before it's even started properly. 👍

It took me a few days before I got the hang of correcting even the smallest of slides. And then a few weeks before I was comfortable with oversteer.

 

[Dean]

"Practice makes perfect". - I can assure you, you'll get better by practicing! (Off topic warning; ) It's like when I was racing in the WRS Academy on Nov. 24th. - I was in the bottom of the Autumn Ring WRS TT (Week 91, where I didn't submit my time), but after around two hours I managed to get 11.4XX in T1.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Hey husky. I do suggest putting the FFB settings at 5 i use it and have no issues. Feels good and not overwhelming. Also I would suggest not using "power steering assist" in the options menu. It is really pointless in drifting (removes a lot of the feel when cutting the wheels)

Here's a few of my videos of me drifting on the wheel (or currently drift on the DFGT). Maybe study these movements and see what you are doing wrong...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6bzW410TkY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This one shows 3 different view points of a single run on this section I did last view point in the view is on the one with the wheel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMemD_jfhKQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Also here is a video of one of my homies on his G27 that helped me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijGNqe4KMrU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Here's another one of his.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yejwjC6qK9w&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Hope these give you a better point of reference.

 

[Geopan973]

When I race I do not have any serious problems with the wheel. In fact when racing powerful FR or MR cars, I sometimes get spins (power-slides) for which I am to blame because I over-accelerate at the exit of the turn.

In contrast I never spin during drifts. I always snap. I know it has something to do with the balance between throttle and steering angle because I used to drift adequately in a (much) younger age in real life, but I just can't get my finger on it.

Another thing that bothers me is the fact that all top drifters in the seasonal events are all using sticks. I have never seen any wheel user even in the top 250 (not that I have searched extensively). Which means that either drifting with the stick is too easy or that drifting with the wheel is too hard.

(it could mean of course that I'm getting too old for this s**t...)

 

[Lock2Lock]

When I race I do not have any serious problems with the wheel. In fact when racing powerful FR or MR cars, I sometimes get spins (power-slides) for which I am to blame because I over-accelerate at the exit of the turn.

In contrast I never spin during drifts. I always snap. I know it has something to do with the balance between throttle and steering angle because I used to drift adequately in a (much) younger age in real life, but I just can't get my finger on it.

Another thing that bothers me is the fact that all top drifters in the seasonal events are all using sticks. I have never seen any wheel user even in the top 250 (not that I have searched extensively). Which means that either drifting with the stick is too easy or that drifting with the wheel is too hard.

(it could mean of course that I'm getting too old for this s**t...)

Hahahaha yeah i hear you. If you get snap back it is usually (in drifting)... Not enough throttle or too much counter steer.



In a few weeks I wouldn't mind helping you guys learn how to drift on the wheel. I am in the process of moving is why i can't help you sooner. If you guys are interested add RSM-Lock2Lock

 

[Geopan973]

Hahahaha yeah i hear you. If you get snap back it is usually (in drifting)... Not enough throttle or too much counter steer.



In a few weeks I wouldn't mind helping you guys learn how to drift on the wheel. I am in the process of moving is why i can't help you sooner. If you guys are interested add RSM-Lock2Lock

👍 Although we might have a problem of time-zone difference and region. I am at CET+2 which means at least 6 hours difference and I do not know what goes with the connection lag-time etc.

 

[sailworksman]

It will take you about a month to get used to it. You need to learn to tune your cars and make micro movements while steering. It's plug and play really. Set the FFB to whatever you like, and practice.

 

[PR1VATEJ0KER]

Trying to get opposite lock takes so much damn effort

Are you trying to drift with the wheel? that takes alot of practice.

If you are just racing, you must be a maniac,
I rarely turn the wheel more than 110 degrees either way.

You can lower the Force Feedback in the Option Menu

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is part vent, part question.. please bear with me if I go on a bit..

I'm frustrated beyond belief and I wanted to talk to people who can help me out rather than try and explain the problem to a Mrs that doesn't quite grasp why this is getting to me.

I got a Logitech Driving Force GT and.. well.. I'm finding it absolutely un-usable.

Trying to get opposite lock takes so much damn effort that I'm simply not willing to go through it for 3 hour stints playing online.. turning it 360 degrees only seems to get it to quarter lock and I smash into a wall with understeer..

My question is, is there a way to alter the sensitivity of the wheel? either hardware wise (Attaching a larger wheel maybe? I wouldn't know if that's possible..) or software wise?
I couldn't find anything for wheel sensitivity in the menus but I'm a bit flustered as is so I may of missed it..

I had hoped to practice driving my MR2 in the game in preparation for racing it but at this rate I may just need to make do with the controller and just learn from scratch when I hit the track for real.

It's a 900 degree wheel and that is not adjustable, only the force feedback and whether power steering is on. I use 4-5 FF and power steering off for the best feel. The few times I drifted, I used a DS3.

If you're having problems countersteering when circuit racing you're probably handing the back end out too much. Try a smoother entry or a better tune. This wheel is just as fast as any other, I have no problems that way, you just have to get used to it. The fact it is 900 degrees means your inputs can be more precise but also that they have to be to avoid all the countersteering. If that's how you want to drive however, it's probably not the best wheel for that.

 

[ryzno]

Hey husky. I do suggest putting the FFB settings at 5 i use it and have no issues. Feels good and not overwhelming. Also I would suggest not using "power steering assist" in the options menu. It is really pointless in drifting (removes a lot of the feel when cutting the wheels)

Here's a few of my videos of me drifting on the wheel (or currently drift on the DFGT). Maybe study these movements and see what you are doing wrong...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6bzW410TkY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This one shows 3 different view points of a single run on this section I did last view point in the view is on the one with the wheel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMemD_jfhKQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Also here is a video of one of my homies on his G27 that helped me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijGNqe4KMrU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Here's another one of his.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yejwjC6qK9w&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Hope these give you a better point of reference.

Good choice of music in the first two vids 👍👍 Having never really drifted I to your flawless continuous drifts. I can hardly drift around one turn.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Good choice of music in the first two vids 👍👍 Having never really drifted I to your flawless continuous drifts. I can hardly drift around one turn.

Thanks took a while to get there but yeah

 

[Tornado]

Is this the first time you've used a wheel to do this stuff? Or have you been using one for a while now, and only just encountered this?

 

[Morgoth_666]

It really does just take time and practice. The actual amount of time varies widely from person to person. It took me a good month or more to get comfortable, and that wasn't moving from a controller but instead just upgrading from a 180-degree wheel to a 900. Some have claimed to be fine with it in only a week or so.

Remember, just because it looks like a car's steering wheel doesn't mean it's not a controller. Just like the fact that GT looks reasonably like the real world doesn't mean that everything works exactly the same as in the real world. It's a skill you have to learn, it's just a bit more simiilar to a real car's controls.

Once you are accustomed to it and it becomes second nature, you really shouldn't have to turn it very much even during most countersteering moments. The only time you need to get anywhere near taking your hand off the wheel is when trying to catch extreme slides that are never a good thing or when drifting(or perhaps when taking the F10 around the hotel hairpin at Monaco, that car is weird). Trying to countersteer that far is very difficult, as hinted at by the fact that controllers tend to dominate the drift events. For doing that sort of thing it's best to shorten the turning radius of the wheel, but sadly most wheels don't have that functionality and most games don't either.

 

[Aquarelle]

Hey husky. I do suggest putting the FFB settings at 5 i use it and have no issues. Feels good and not overwhelming. Also I would suggest not using "power steering assist" in the options menu.

Thanks, I watched your videos and I can sort of work out where the hold points are. I've only just woken up so I'm gonna need a bit to mentally prepare myself for the frustration it brought me yesterday but I'll try following your tips

In a few weeks I wouldn't mind helping you guys learn how to drift on the wheel.

That would be grand! I sent you a request

It will take you about a month to get used to it. You need to learn to tune your cars and make micro movements while steering. It's plug and play really. Set the FFB to whatever you like, and practice.

I've simply given up on the wheel preparing me for the real thing, so this advice is actually useful now. If I can't use it for practice I can at least use it for fun once I get the hang of this infernal thing

Are you trying to drift with the wheel? that takes alot of practice.

I'm drifting, yes. I live in NZ and the local tracks are gravel and dirt, so controlling slides is an invaluable skill.

If you're having problems countersteering when circuit racing you're probably handing the back end out too much. Try a smoother entry or a better tune.

As I said, clean driving isn't the issue. It's maintaining oversteer when the rear lets go. I'd rather avoid spending the 20 minutes it seems to take me to do a 3 point turn with this wheel =P

Is this the first time you've used a wheel to do this stuff? Or have you been using one for a while now, and only just encountered this?

I've had a wheel for a while, but I only ever did clean driving.. when ever the rear stepped out I just span, because I couldn't get the countersteer right. So I began tuning my cars to understeer rather than oversteer so I wouldn't embarass myself online

For doing that sort of thing it's best to shorten the turning radius of the wheel, but sadly most wheels don't have that functionality and most games don't either.

This is the exact question I was asking all along, whether doing something like this was possible, even if it was just a more life sized wheel it wouldn't be as much of an issue.. ah well =/




Annd breathe.. holy damn that's a long post o.o thanks for your replies everyone

 

[LeadFootLiam]

Sounds to me like you havent driven in real life.

 

[iamsupernasty]

This is the exact question I was asking all along, whether doing something like this was possible, even if it was just a more life sized wheel it wouldn't be as much of an issue.. ah well =/

The wheel in my race car is smaller than the DFGT/G27 wheel.

Not sure what you're getting at?

If you learn how to countersteer with your DFGT, it will definitely help prepare you to countersteer IRL. IRL is much easier to countersteer, but has a much higher penalty for making a mistake.