Lotus going from Light to Luxury

[G.T.Ace]

Let's hope it will look as good as the Evora.

 

[homeforsummer]

The Evora is about the only thing I have found interesting from Lotus in the last 2 decades! (the Vauxhall VX220 was the only exception). The problem is its way over priced compared to its competition.

Really? The original Elise wasn't interesting to you?

The VX220 was pretty much the only Lotus-based product I've not been that interested in in the last two decades... and even then it's still got one of the great sports car chassis under it.

Wouldn't say the Evora is too overpriced. It's just more than you'd expect from a Lotus, given that interior quality isn't quite up to Porsche levels. As far as I've read in the press, the Evora makes even the excellent Cayman look a bit rough around the edges handling-wise.

Lotus aren't that cheap any more anyway. Even the Elise S is over £25k now. When the Elise was released back in 1996 it was a £21k car.

 

[Paulie]

You're worried about a $4k price increase in over a decade? They've done well to keep it down by the sound of things.

 

[homeforsummer]

You're worried about a $4k price increase in over a decade? They've done well to keep it down by the sound of things.

Not so much the price increase compared to how it now stacks up price-wise to the competition. (Also, four thousand pounds. That's seven thousand Aussie dollars).

And I also made a mistake with the price. Looking around the net it seems like more £27-28k is the entry point. That is a lot. Knocking on the door of BMW Z4/Porsche Boxster money.

Don't get me wrong, I'd pick the Elise over any of them, but you have to admit it's a lot of money for not a lot of car!

I'd love to see what Lotus plan to replace the Elise with too. Wonder if, with more modern technology, they'll be able to reduce weight back down to 1996 levels, i.e. between 700-800kg.

 

[Paulie]

You mean the next gen Elise? I can't see Lotus replacing the Elise with something else any time soon.

 

[homeforsummer]

Yeah, that. It's unlikely to get replaced for a few years as Lotus tend to have long-ish model cycles (even facelifts aren't that frequent) but it'll be interesting when details start to emerge.

 

[Tornado]

I'm assuming the 2ZZ won't pass Euro V, so it will be interesting just to see what they can find to replace that. Toyota don't have any engines that can replace it as far as I know, and they didn't do the best job replacing the 1ZZ in the base Elise; so I'm certainly intrigued to see if they can do better.

 

[niky]

1.4 liter turbo something-something in the next-gen Elise? Could happen.

 

[a6m5]

a little late to the party.........

I've always liked Lotus, but it wasn't until the current Elise, I became a fan. Practical price, light weight, that's what makes Lotus my favorite manufacturer of exotic sports cars. There are dozen other companies in luxury-sport market, they are less-unique, I also don't think Lotus will be able to beat them at their own game. Don't know it for fact, but those boys probably have much bigger R&D wallet, too.

 

[Robin]

Really? The original Elise wasn't interesting to you?

The VX220 was pretty much the only Lotus-based product I've not been that interested in in the last two decades... and even then it's still got one of the great sports car chassis under it.

Wouldn't say the Evora is too overpriced. It's just more than you'd expect from a Lotus, given that interior quality isn't quite up to Porsche levels. As far as I've read in the press, the Evora makes even the excellent Cayman look a bit rough around the edges handling-wise.

Lotus aren't that cheap any more anyway. Even the Elise S is over £25k now. When the Elise was released back in 1996 it was a £21k car.

No, I found the original Elise totally uninteresting and I've been in one a few times. It just always felt like a kit car company to me and the styling was so dull in my opinion. If you look on the other side at something like TVR, yes they were also a kit car style outfit but the styling was out of this world. The Lotus just didnt do anything for me from any standpoint.

The VX220 although basically the same underneath it was fresh take on the styling and looked very modern and bold. If I see one around today it still catches my eye, a good chassis really needs a good body to complement it and Lotus didnt change much for like 15 years!

With the Evora is looks like a real mass production sports car, the quality is great but you really are paying over the odd's for it when you look at what else you could purchase which is of a more established quality. Its for the guy who wants a Cayman but wants to stand out in the car park!

Robin.

 

[homeforsummer]

Have to say I disagree on most counts (and yes, I too have passengered in one).

Entirely aside from the fact that the Elise was revolutionary from an engineering standpoint (comes to the party 200kg lighter than any competitor save for that pseudo-race car the Caterham 7), they also managed to give it one of the best road-car chassis ever, and a ride that was better than most family cars at the time.

Personally, I've always liked the styling too. They still stand out on the road, and S1 models have an agression you wouldn't think possible from a car with "cute" round lights dotted everywhere. I wasn't as keen on the S2 revisions (more agressive but less attractive IMO) and to me, Vauxhall did a good job of not only making the car look much bigger and heavier, but also making it bigger and heavier (even in 2000 after the Elise had gained weight, it was still 785kg to the 875kg of the Vauxhall/Opel - GM needed to give it 20% more power just to maintain performance).

I also don't quite understand the TVR comment, since it was only post-Tuscan Speed 6 that their design became genuninely wild both inside and out. Before that car everything looked fairly generic, and actually, pretty similar. Since the Elise was released three or four years before that Tuscan, it's hard to argue that TVRs around when the Elise was launched were "out of this world".

Regarding the Evora, apparently the quality isn't great which is why you're paying over the odds for it. If the quality was up to Cayman standards then the price Lotus are charging would be very competitive indeed.

 

[Paulie]

Were you just knocking the Cerbera? Don't you knock the Cerbera!

J/K. But just quietly, the Cerbera is still my favourite TVR. BTW, how are V8s and all still being sold in Europe when tiny little Elises and Civic Type Rs can't meet emissions regs?

 

[Robin]

The TVR Griffith, Chimaera and especially the Cerbera looks were 'out of this world' at the time, nothing else out there looked like they did. I felt that the Elise's style was played out by the time it went on sale. Seriously when I saw it in 1996 it didnt look new.

I'm not arguing about its technical excellence, but I feel the whole package needs to be delivered to make it a great car. All round I felt the TVR's in that era had a better balance and I also feel Vauxhall achieved a better balance with the VX220 by improving the Elise's styling. A good modern example is the upcoming Mclaren, its probably going to have amazing performance but the design looks like it fell out of the millenium!

The Evora is overpriced because its built in the UK, thats the issue. Build it in Proton's factory in Malaysia and it would be much more competitively priced. I have a feeling that the upcoming models might be made there because it just makes sense because its not some bespoke brand that needs to be made in the UK to make it sell.

Robin.

 

[homeforsummer]

The TVR Griffith, Chimaera and especially the Cerbera looks were 'out of this world' at the time, nothing else out there looked like they did. I felt that the Elise's style was played out by the time it went on sale. Seriously when I saw it in 1996 it didnt look new.

I'm not arguing about its technical excellence, but I feel the whole package needs to be delivered to make it a great car. All round I felt the TVR's in that era had a better balance and I also feel Vauxhall achieved a better balance with the VX220 by improving the Elise's styling.

Again, I respectfully disagree. Not so much with the Elise as we both know where we stand on that (though I still think you're nuts ), but on TVR. Until about 2000 they never looked particularly special and I certainly wouldn't say they had a balance of everything needed to make a good sports car.

Balance to me would be styling, of course, but also the ability to drive it quickly without spinning to a fiery death or actually managing to get past the end of your street without it breaking down.

And I'm only partly exaggerating. TVRs are exactly as bad as their reputations suggests on reliability... the amount of car magazine reviews I have where they don't complete a test because the car died is verging on the ludicrous.

And even at the time, the styling wasn't particularly wild. Curvy and agressive maybe, but they still all looked pretty much the same. Nothing revolutionary about them, unlike the Elise.

A good modern example is the upcoming Mclaren, its probably going to have amazing performance but the design looks like it fell out of the millenium!

I agree on this. The McLaren MP4-12C is a really unimaginative design. I'm sure it'll be an awesome car, but it's not a patch on the Italia styling-wise.

The Evora is overpriced because its built in the UK, thats the issue. Build it in Proton's factory in Malaysia and it would be much more competitively priced. I have a feeling that the upcoming models might be made there because it just makes sense because its not some bespoke brand that needs to be made in the UK to make it sell.

I don't know about you, but I kind of like that Lotus are still built in the UK. It means they're still built by people who actually care about the cars, rather than being built by a massive manufacturer as cheaply as possible.

The whole bespoke thing is a part of Lotus. Argueably, it's a part of what makes a British sports car a British sports car.

J/K. But just quietly, the Cerbera is still my favourite TVR. BTW, how are V8s and all still being sold in Europe when tiny little Elises and Civic Type Rs can't meet emissions regs?

I know, it makes very little sense. You have a situation where a 50cc two-stroke moped that does 150mpg and is unlikely to be ridden more than 1000 miles a year can be taken off the market for polluting, but a V8 Range Rover that does 20k miles a year at 20mpg can be deemed clean...

It's all done on a "per unit" basis, but when you consider how many of those "units" are being produced it starts to look ridiculous.

 

[Tornado]

I think it would be terrible if Lotus had to relocate manufacturing to Malaysia. At best, it would probably cause the same thing that happened when VW moved most car production for the U.S. from Germany to Mexico in 1991, plus the whole "where did the British in my British car go" thing.


Edit: Ah screw it. I'll put it back in:

BTW, how are V8s and all still being sold in Europe when tiny little Elises and Civic Type Rs can't meet emissions regs?

Because European emission regulations are stupid.

 

[Paulie]

Glad I live in Australia. Although those same crappy Euro regs are killing off great models for Australia too, like the XR5 Focus.

 

[homeforsummer]

Won't you stop getting the Euro market Type R too? Since it's built in the UK, isn't it? Can't believe if it's built over here and they aren't allowed to sell it they won't just stop building it in the first place...

 

[Paulie]

Yeah probably, I suppose the Type R will be dead soon enough.
It's a wonder Lotus doesn't revive the Elan and challenge the always popular selling MX-5.

 

[Tornado]

Because the base Elise models basically already sit in that performance bracket.

 

[Paulie]

In that price bracket though? Then of course there isn't an Elise roadster. I wonder if the MX-5 would be such a popular seller if it were a coupe, since (don't take offence Miata fans) they do get purchased by a lot of women looking for a stylish affordable roadster and not much more.

 

[homeforsummer]

In that price bracket though? Then of course there isn't an Elise roadster. I wonder if the MX-5 would be such a popular seller if it were a coupe, since (don't take offence Miata fans) they do get purchased by a lot of women looking for a stylish affordable roadster and not much more.

None taken. I bought mine off a girl

I suspect that it wouldn't be as popular as it is today, mainly because back when the Miata was launched it completely revived a near-dead segment. All you could really get back then were wobbly hatchback-converted cabriolets, and then Mazda gave us a (slightly less) wobbly sports car.

I do think it's a pity they never got serious about doing a proper coupe version of the Miata - they sold a handful in Japan but that was it - because that would have been awesome. The MX5's handling with no scuttle shake? Brilliant. It'd have been like a modern-day MGB GT.

I agree though, the Elise has always been a price bracket above the Miata. But then, it's generally been a performance bracket above it too. An Elise with equivalent power to the Miata will generally be about three seconds quicker to sixty.

I'd like to see Lotus do a modern-day interpretation of the Elan though. The Miata was a great interpretation for the 80s/90s, but I'd like to see the Lotus approach with an aluminium tub and a Toyota mill. They could maybe take some engineering ideas from the Eco Elise too and give it that hemp bodywork, since it's equally light but a lot less toxic to produce than the Elise's glassfibre.

 

[Neal]

Crikey, Lotus wasn't messing when they said they were going upmarket! I was expecting a £70K XKR rival rather than a £100K DB9 competitor although I did get the name right

Autoexpress have apparently been informed that a few new Lotus concepts will be unveiled at the Paris Motor Show "including a new Esprit, two new front-engined GT cars and a new roadster"

Assuming the GT cars are going to be the new luxury models I wouldn't be at all surprised if they resurrected the Elite, Eclat or Excel names in a 2 + 2 form.

The Elite looks really nice and if this is going to be the level of performance for the GT model imagine how mental the new Esprit is going to be

Lotus Elite revealed

Lotus has revealed plans for a stunning front-engined, 2+2 V8 coupe, reminiscent of Aston Martin's DB9 and scheduled for launch in early 2014.

The car, a hybrid that incorporates a Lotus-developed KERS system, will be the third front-engined model in Lotus's 52-year history to use the revered Elite name. Its launch confirms months of speculation that Hethel is deadly serious about challenging Porsche, Ferrari and Aston Martin head on with cars costing £100,000 plus. More models are expected, including an Elite offshoot to challenge Aston Martin's Rapide saloon.

Group Lotus CEO Dany Bahar only joined the company last year. But since then he's been working on a multi-model Lotus revival plan, of which the Elite is only one step. Bahar calls the new model "a car of perfect contradictions: compact yet spacious, high performing yet low emitting, lightweight yet still reassuringly solid."

The new Elite will be made both as a fixed-head coupe and with a retractable hard-top. It's not clear yet whether there will be a full convertible.

The structured, muscular new Elite shape ditches Lotus's traditional 'mouth' in favour of a new, squarer and more aggressive intake, which is likely to be used in various forms on future models. There are no details yet of the interior, beyond Lotus's intention to use an own-design touch-screen for all major functions. Company insiders are well aware that Lotus will have to ramp up its craftsmanship skills if it is to compete successfully with the Aston/Porsche brigade.

All models will get a 'charged' 5.0-litre V8, believed to be the unit used in the Lexus LS600h, linked to a hybrid transmission comprising two electric motors and an epicyclic gearbox from the same source. Two power levels are suggested: a 540bhp standard version and a 610bhp R model, both delivered at 8000rpm, but there are no details on how the front-mounted KERS stores energy, or how much it can deploy.

Toyota, once Lotus's co-owner, has been the Norfolk sports car firm's engine partner since the Elise adopted Toyota units around 10 years ago. The Japanese giant seems content to allow Lotus to 'charge' its V8 (Lotus is understood still to be deciding whether it will be turbocharged or supercharged) and to use its own engine control software to vary the performance of Toyota's engines. It already does this with the Elise SC and Evora.

The new Elite is bidding to be the first performance hybrid in the £100,000-plus sector. At 4.6 metres in overall length, it is around 10cm shorter than a DB9, and its proposed 1680kg kerb weight is about 80kg less. However, the forecast CO2 output of its hybrid powertrain (215g/km) undercuts the Aston’s 367g/km by a remarkable 40 per cent — for no performance penalty. Lotus forecasts a 0-62mph sprint time of 3.5 to 3.7sec, depending on model. No top speed has yet been mentioned, but it’s certain the high-powered Elite will at least match the Aston's 186mph.

"Make no mistake," says Bahar, "there’s a definite market requirement for the Elite. It's the ultimate compromise of sports car feel with comfort and space. There will always be those who say Lotus should stick to small sports cars, but we didn't take the decision to design something like the Elite lightly. It is based on months of careful research and planning."

Bahar points out that front-engined 2+2s represented around 20 per cent of Lotus production between 1948 and 1996, when the Elise became the company's only model, and 11 per cent overall. "The sector has been very successful for us in the past, and the new Elite raises the benchmark higher still," he says.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Looks like someone allowed an Integra and an Aston to breed.

 

[J-PaP]

I like it.... I like it a lot!

Though it doesn't look anything like a lotus. Hope the Evora gets an update by 2014.

 

[homeforsummer]

I like it.... I like it a lot!

Though it doesn't look anything like a lotus. Hope the Evora gets an update by 2014.

That's what people probably said about the Elise too though, given that it looked like no previous Lotus

Looks good though. Hint of S2000 at the front.

My only concern still is that Lotus manage to get the quality right. I've no worries whatsoever about them getting the engineering right.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Colin Chapman is rolling in his grave..

 

[exigeracer]

**** me that is a gorgeous car. Glad to see Carr/Crijins stepping out of the familiar Lotus design language with this. It's got a very adolescent design feel, but the proportions are spot-on. I always love big glass like this, that c-pillar has an awesome gestural feel to it, and that duck-tail is fabulous.

-edit-
3,600 lbs?

 

[homeforsummer]

Colin Chapman is rolling in his grave..

Why? The weight thing?

I can see where you're coming from but I'm not keen on the attitude that just because something is different from a maker's core model it automatically means it's an affront to the company name.

It's the same attitude that makes people sneer at the Porsche 924 and 914 because they were four-cylinder and designed by Volkswagen. Oddly forgetting that Porsche's first car, the 356, was four-cylinder and designed by Volkswagen...

 

[J-PaP]

That's what people probably said about the Elise too though, given that it looked like no previous Lotus

Looks good though. Hint of S2000 at the front.

My only concern still is that Lotus manage to get the quality right. I've no worries whatsoever about them getting the engineering right.

I don't mind it being the new design language for Lotus. My only concern is I hope all their new models look like they are from the same manufacturer. Though i can kind of see how the Evora tries to bridge the gap between the Elise/Exige and where their models will be in 2014. Either way good move Lotus and I can't wait to see how the Esprit turns out.

Also I don't think the weight thing matters so much. Yes it should be a core value for Lotus but not necessary for every single model. The Esprit/Elise/Exige are what should maintain the lightweight construction while having other models that attract more mass market audiences.

 

[exigeracer]

My only concern is I hope all their new models look like they are from the same manufacturer. Though i can kind of see how the Evora tries to bridge the gap between the Elise/Exige and where their models will be in 2014.

Lotus CEO Danny Bahar is responsible for the brand recognition of companies like Red Bull and Ferrari, some of the strongest brands in the world. There is no doubt that a recognizable design language will be a priority for him and for the new direction of Lotus.

A lot of Lotus DNA has been bent for this model. 500+hp, 3600 lbs, automatic gearbox only, price. The reality is that Lotus hasn't made any money in 15 years. They need something like this in the roster for anyone to try considering them.