LP670 has unrealistic grip, no wheel spin

[RC45]

I can do it with hot tyres too, and in pretty much ANY rear wheel drive front engined car, like I said, pro-drifter etc etc. The simple question was, since you said I was both stupid and wrong, can you do a BURNOUT in your AWD truck? Don't worry about answering, I already know the answer. LOL

And by the way, that was on close to brand new (less than ten miles on them) 255/45 ZR18's and power was a (totally stock with the exception of an exhaust and diff)) 280bhp, so hardly a lack of grip/traction caused by 'cold tyres'.

So in your opinion, you need to be a "pro drifter etc etc" to be able to spin the tyres on a car?

I would hazard and guess you might be both stupid and wrong - as I dont have a truck but rather a 600rwhp Corvette Z06 in track trim. So as far as "traction" and "burnouts" and "spinning the tyres" there is precious little youcan show or teach me.

And 255/45/ZR18's are pretty puny tyres (not to mention at 10 miles old they are full of mould release and slicker than a greasemonkeys armpit at that stage), and could be made to spin by a 150bhp (not wheel horse power) front or rear wheel drive car - the ability of an engine to overpower a 255 is nothing really. Dump clutch and hit gas - thats it - no skill involved.

My car has 305 with tyres on the front wheels, so when I say it is possible to overwhelm and light up the 335 wide Kuhmos on the rear with over judicious application of the throttle I sorta know what I am talking about.

255's.. lol

 

[LS2_PONTIAC_GTO]

First video is a ROLLING BURNOUT. Why? Because he is QUITE CLEARLY holding the car on the brakes, hence why it slides so sideways and doesn't pick up speed.
Second video, yes, thats a burnout, which then becomes just wheelspin once the brakes are released. So what if they are smoking, the car is picking up speed, so the wheelspin will eventually die, therefore it's not a burnout. LOL

I see you struggle with your grasp of 'English' haha

Denilson: just leave it now, you and I both know we are right, arguing with these guys is like trying to swim through treacle, you are never going to get anywhere cause they're just too thick LMFAO

I give up! shame on me for thinking i could fix stupid

 

[TwinturboCH]

So in your opinion, you need to be a "pro drifter etc etc" to be able to spin the tyres on a car?

Show me where I said that, please. Oh wait, I didn't, so you can't. This was a discussion about the differences between 4wd and rwd when doing a burnout, nothing more. The fact I'm a drifter was only to illustrate that I know what I'm talking about as I do it FOR A LIVING lol But whatever helps you think you're right.

I would hazad and guess you might be both stupid and wrong - as I dont have a truck but rather a 600rwd Corvette Z06 is track trim. So as far as "traction" and "burnouts" and "spinning the tyres" there is precious little youcan show or teach me.

The 'truck' reference was in reply to '1fast335i' if you#d bothered to read the rest of the thread, but I suppose you can have points for effort LOL

And 255/45/ZR18's are pretty puny tyres, and could be made to spin by a `50bhp (not wheel horse power) front or rear wheel drive car - the ability of an engine to overpower a 255 is nother. Dump clutch and hit gas - thats it - no skill involved.

I never said it took skill, it's about the easiest thing you can do in a car, it was just the easiest way to show what a BURNOUT actually is and to demonstrate it can't be done in AWD, but again, I suppose you get points for trying.

My car has 305 with tyres on the front wheels, so when say it is possible to overwhelm and light up the 335 wide Kuhmos on the rear with over judicious application of the throttle I sorta know what I am talking about.

255's.. lol

Well done, lucky you. Do you burn through 6-10 pairs of tyres a day? No? Well I do, my daily tyre bill is in excess £1500 ($2500) when I compete, so forgive me for not running tyres that are so wide that I have to double my tyre budget. 255's aren't that wide, but I guarantee you need AT LEAST 200bhp to spin them up, they're Kumho V70A semi slicks (look them up), and they don't spin up easy. I'd be willing to bet hefty amounts of money that my 1050kg R32 (with in excess of 550bhp) on 255 Kumho's is faster round a track and has more grip than your 1500kg yank tank on 335's, but again, whatever helps you feel like you are right LOL

I give up! shame on me for thinking i could fix stupid

Why would you think that? You didn't manage to fix yourself. 👍 What I asked you was fairly simple, but you can't even answer me. Like I said, SHOW me you are right, and I'll capitulate. It's not hard. Come on. Show me.

 

[Denilson]

So in your opinion, you need to be a "pro drifter etc etc" to be able to spin the tyres on a car?

I would hazard and guess you might be both stupid and wrong - as I dont have a truck but rather a 600rwd Corvette Z06 is track trim. So as far as "traction" and "burnouts" and "spinning the tyres" there is precious little youcan show or teach me.

And 255/45/ZR18's are pretty puny tyres (not to mention at 10 miles old they are fullof mould release and slicker than a greasemonkeys armpit at thst stage), and could be made to spin by a `50bhp (not wheel horse power) front or rear wheel drive car - the ability of an engine to overpower a 255 is nother. Dump clutch and hit gas - thats it - no skill involved.

My car has 305 with tyres on the front wheels, so when say it is possible to overwhelm and light up the 335 wide Kuhmos on the rear with over judicious application of the throttle I sorta know what I am talking about.

255's.. lol

Hey, you from texas.. We know that everything is big where you come from.. No one cares about your mighty 335's! so plz..

Can you do a bournout in a 4WD car? And how? That is the Q. If you have so much knowledge about "traction", "bournouts" and "spinning the tyres", plz, explain how you could perform a bournout with a 4WD.

Just trying to jump back to the subject in this thread and quit the "showing off thing" it's become.

 

[TwinturboCH]

Can you do a bournout in a 4WD car? And how? That is the Q. If you have so much knowledge about "traction", "bournouts" and "spinning the tyres", plz, explain how you could perform a bournout with a 4WD.

EXACTLY, it's not the most complex thing on earth, but they don't seem to be able to manage it.

 

[Villain]

Hey, you from texas.. We know that everything is big where you come from.. No one cares about your mighty 335's! so plz..

Can you do a bournout in a 4WD car? And how? That is the Q. If you have so much knowledge about "traction", "bournouts" and "spinning the tyres", plz, explain how you could perform a bournout with a 4WD.

Just trying to jump back to the subject in this thread and quit the "showing off thing" it's become.

Don't bother, it's morphed into a pissing contest.

 

[RC45]

Well done, lucky you. Do you burn through 6-10 pairs of tyres a day? No? Well I do, my daily tyre bill is around £1500 when I compete, so forgive me for not running tyres that are so wide that I have to double my tyre budget. 255's aren't that wide, but I guarantee you need AT LEAST 200bhp to spin them up, they're Kumho V70A semi slicks, and they don#t spin up easy. I#d be willing to bet that my 1000kg R32 on 255 Kumho's has more grip than your 1500kg yank tank on 335's, but again, whatever helps you feel like you are right LOL

Looks like you do have a hardon for your "pro drifter etc etc" lifestyle. As I asked above, do you need to be a prodrifter to be able to do a burnout, you seem to think so.

Your 1000kg R32 on 255 Kumhos is setup as a drift car, correct? SO by definition you have forgone grip for slip. Why wold Kuhmo V70A semi-slicks on your car provide more grip than Kuhmo V710 slicks on mine?

ANd I like how as soon as you run out of fact based discussion you jump straight to the attacks and insults And having learnt a long time ago to read between the interweb lies and exagerations, your car does weigh 1000kgs, we both know this - it weighs in at abotu 1150kgs what with the cage and all the other gear - you just like to lop off 150 kilos for the effect.

How many G's does your car pull on? Oh wait - you drift, youdont pull G's you just slide around "looking" cool

 

[Denilson]

Don't bother, it's morphed into a pissing contest.

I guess you're right..

 

[LS2_PONTIAC_GTO]

it seems everyone has been correct according to wikipedia.....read the whole story before replying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnout_(vehicle)#See_also

 

[TwinturboCH]

Looks like you do have a hardon for your "pro drifter etc etc" lifestyle. As I asked above, do you need to be a prodrifter to be able to do a burnout, you seem to think so.

See above genius

Your 1000kg R32 on 255 Kumhos is setup as a drift car, correct? SO by definition you have forgone grip for slip. Why wold Kuhmo V70A semi-slicks on your car provide more grip than Kuhmo V710 slicks on mine?

You use slicks on the street? Fair enough, that isn't legal here, on this one and only point I am quite happy to stand corrected.

ANd I like how as soon as you run out of fact based discussion you jump straight to the attacks and insults And having learnt a long time ago to read between the interweb lies and exagerations, your car does weigh 1000kgs, we both know this - it weighs in at abotu 1150kgs what with the cage and all the other gear - you just like to lop off 150 kilos for the effect.

First, I tried facts, you wouldn't listen, my patience only runs so far when it comes to ignorance.
Second, I said 1050kgs, and that's the dry weight (1057kgs dry if you want to be pedantic) as it has fibreglass doors, wings, carbon bonnet, plastic windows etc etc. plus everthing is 'cut out' in front of the front wheels and behind the rear wheels.

How many G's does your car pull on? Oh wait - you drift, youdont pull G's you just slide around "looking" cool

Here's where you are showing your lack of knowledge. Just because it is a drift car doesn't mean it has no grip. We are, in fact, on a constant mission to find more grip so we can put down more power, more effectively, and carry more speed, but then I suppose you wouldn't know that.

 

[TwinturboCH]

it seems everyone has been correct according to wikipedia.....read the whole story before replying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnout_(vehicle)#See_also

WOW, a 'power brake' IS a burnout, what a shock, so what I was saying is IN FACT, CORRECT, you CANNOT DO A BURNOUT IN AWD. Thanks for finally agreeing that the one and only point I was trying to make, is, in fact, correct. LMFAO

 

[LS2_PONTIAC_GTO]

exerpt from wikipedia definition of "burnout":
Burnouts are most difficult to perform in four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive cars, as they have better traction than FWD or RWD vehicles. It requires significantly more powerful engines to break all four tires loose at the same time, and the tires will spin for only a short while before all four gain traction.

 

[LS2_PONTIAC_GTO]

WOW, a 'power brake' IS a burnout, what a shock, so what I was saying is IN FACT, CORRECT, you CANNOT DO A BURNOUT IN AWD. Thanks for finally agreeing that the one and only point I was trying to make, is, in fact, correct. LMFAO

guess you didnt read the whole thing.....genius:tdown:

 

[garybee]

Don't bother, it's morphed into a pissing contest.

My money's on them both being 'pre-teen' and never driven a car without a Dual Shock.

 

[TwinturboCH]

exerpt from wikipedia definition of "burnout":
Burnouts are most difficult to perform in four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive cars, as they have better traction than FWD or RWD vehicles. It requires significantly more powerful engines to break all four tires loose at the same time, and the tires will spin for only a short while before all four gain traction.

And of course Wikipedia is known for always being correct, that ISN'T a BURNOUT, read the definition, the article contradicts itself, it is correct up until that point, where someone has clearly edited the article.

guess you didnt read the whole thing.....genius:tdown:

See above....

 

[NOS Waster]

it seems everyone has been correct according to wikipedia.....read the whole story before replying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnout_(vehicle)#See_also

Good post 👍

There's one problem: This thread will probably be locked soon for going off topic.

 

[TwinturboCH]

My money's on them both being 'pre-teen' and never driven a car without a Dual Shock.

Care to place a wager on that? I've already had this on here and proved otherwise LOL

 

[LS2_PONTIAC_GTO]

And of course Wikipedia is known for always being correct, that ISN'T a BURNOUT, read the definition, the article contradicts itself, it is correct up until that point, where someone has clearly edited the article.



See above....

so i guess we'll all just have to go with your defintion instead of wiki's.....OK

 

[RC45]

See above genius



You use slicks on the street? Fair enough, that isn't legal here, on this one and only point I am quite happy to stand corrected.



First, I tried facts, you wouldn't listen, my patience only runs so far when it comes to ignorance.
Second, I said 1050kgs, and that's the dry weight (1057kgs dry if you want to be pedantic) as it has fibreglass doors, wings, carbon bonnet, plastic windows etc etc. plus everthing is 'cut out' in front of the front wheels and behind the rear wheels.



Here's where you are showing your lack of knowledge. Just because it is a drift car doesn't mean it has no grip. We are, in fact, on a constant mission to find more grip so we can put down more power, more effectively, and carry more speed, but then I suppose you wouldn't know that.

*yawn*

Over the last 3 pages all you have done is ride rough shod over the AUP of this forum. You have resorted to insults and attacks at every turn, hell you even went straight for the "stupid Americans" attack a page or 2 back.

You then embarked on the "I am a prodrifter" pissing match, then you switched to some other insulting tactic - all the while mouthing off left and right about God knows what.

The point you seem to have totally overlooked is that at any point ANY vehicle can be made to do a burnout if the drivetrain is able to overpower tyres installed on the driven wheels ability to maintain grip.

If you put low enough grip tyres on, or increase power to such a level that the tyres are overpowered, they will spin - front, rear or all wheel drive - front, mid or rear engined.

That is the reality - as a trained physicist I thought you would have known this?

The only reason you need the brakes to either power-brake, line-lock and burnout the tyres is becuase you have normally designed the vhicle to display certain levels of grip, not the lack there of.

BTW, one would hope you and your attitude and poor personality are not at all representative of the "pro-drift" crowd - or are you?

And WTF is a 'pro-drifter" - you live off your "drift money" or you just get contingency money for making tyre smoke?

 

[TwinturboCH]

so i guess we'll all just have to go with your defintion instead of wiki's.....OK

Please tell me that this:

'Performing a burnout in a front wheel drive vehicle is likely to result in damage to the drivetrain. It is usually achieved by engaging the emergency brake (e-brake) to lock up the rear tires and flooring the gas pedal.
Mercedes-Benz DTM car burnout

To perform a burnout in a rear wheel drive vehicle the driver has to simultaneously engage the gas and brake pedals. The brake pedal will require modulation, as the goal is to allow the rear tires to spin while holding the car in place with the front wheels remaining motionless. At a certain point of balance, the front brakes will prevent the car from moving forward while the rear brakes will have insufficient grip to keep the wheels from spinning, since engine power is transferred to the rear wheels only.

It is possible to make rear-wheel drive burnouts easier by installing "line locks", devices which allow fluid pressure on the front brakes to be maintained while releasing the pedal to free the rear brakes. This is especially useful in a manual transmission vehicle, in which it can be quite difficult to manipulate the clutch, brake and gas pedals simultaneously. Line locks also reduce wear to the rear brakes, a common problem otherwise.'

is not completely and utterly contradicted by this:

'Burnouts are most difficult to perform in four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive cars, as they have better traction than FWD or RWD vehicles. It requires significantly more powerful engines to break all four tires loose at the same time, and the tires will spin for only a short while before all four gain traction.'


What the last paragraph says is, basically, is that you can spin the wheels of a very powerful AWD, but you can't 'burnout' because the grip will overwhelm the wheelspin.

Please learn to read what is actually written, not what you CHOOSE to see so that it fits in with your argument.

 

[LS2_PONTIAC_GTO]

Please tell me that this:

'Performing a burnout in a front wheel drive vehicle is likely to result in damage to the drivetrain. It is usually achieved by engaging the emergency brake (e-brake) to lock up the rear tires and flooring the gas pedal.
Mercedes-Benz DTM car burnout

To perform a burnout in a rear wheel drive vehicle the driver has to simultaneously engage the gas and brake pedals. The brake pedal will require modulation, as the goal is to allow the rear tires to spin while holding the car in place with the front wheels remaining motionless. At a certain point of balance, the front brakes will prevent the car from moving forward while the rear brakes will have insufficient grip to keep the wheels from spinning, since engine power is transferred to the rear wheels only.

It is possible to make rear-wheel drive burnouts easier by installing "line locks", devices which allow fluid pressure on the front brakes to be maintained while releasing the pedal to free the rear brakes. This is especially useful in a manual transmission vehicle, in which it can be quite difficult to manipulate the clutch, brake and gas pedals simultaneously. Line locks also reduce wear to the rear brakes, a common problem otherwise.'

is not completely and utterly contradicted by this:

'Burnouts are most difficult to perform in four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive cars, as they have better traction than FWD or RWD vehicles. It requires significantly more powerful engines to break all four tires loose at the same time, and the tires will spin for only a short while before all four gain traction.'


What the last paragraph says is, basically, is that you can spin the wheels of a very powerful AWD, but you can't 'burnout' because the grip will overwhelm the wheelspin.

Please learn to read what is actually written, not what you CHOOSE to see so that it fits in with your argument.

read the VERY FIRST paragraph in the definition.....even in the parenthesis

A burnout (also known as a peel out or power brake) is the practice of keeping a vehicle stationary (or close to) and spinning its wheels, causing the tires to heat up and smoke resulting from friction.....sheesh

and it states "MORE" difficult in a AWD or 4WD.....not impossible......

 

[TwinturboCH]

Over the last 3 pages all you have done is ride rough shod over the AUP of this forum. You have resorted to insults and attacks at every turn, hell you even went straight for the "stupid Americans" attack a page or 2 back.

If you go back to page one you will see that, in fact, I merely made a statement and then you and another user decided to start the personal attacks. The american thing was just a seriously poor attempt at humour (unlike the swimming in treacle one, which I thought was quite well thought out LOL), but whatever.

You then embarked on the "I am a prodrifter" pissing match, then you switched to some other insulting tactic - all the while mouthing off left and right about God knows what.

I simply said that I drive for a living and therefore have a fair amount of experience, youa re the only one who has made a huge issue out of it, not me. I have tried to say, several times, that my experience is irrelevant with regard to burnout skill, it merely demonstrates I'm not some random 12 year old spouting rubbish.

The point you seem to have totally overlooked is that at any point ANY vehicle can be made to do a burnout if the drivetrain is able to overpower tyres installed on the driven wheels ability to maintain grip.

This is the whole point of the thread and, really, the only one of any relevance, as we have jsut established, overpowering the tyres is simply wheelspin, a 'burnout' required use of the brakes, which is impossible in 4wd. Why is it so hard to stay on topic?

If you put low enough grip tyres on, or increase power to such a level that the tyres are overpowered, they will spin - front, rear or all wheel drive - front, mid or rear engined.

Errrr, yeah, they'll spin the wheels, that doesn't make it a burnout.

That is the reality - as a trained physicist I thought you would have known this?

Another example of you reading something that is not there. Where did I say I was a trained physicist? Nowhere. I STUDIED physics. It's a fairly enormous difference.

The only reason you need the brakes to either power-brake, line-lock and burnout the tyres is becuase you have normally designed the vhicle to display certain levels of grip, not the lack there of.

Errr, no, you need the brakes to hold the car stationary. The idea of a burnout is to build heat into the tyre to increase grip during standing starts, that is it's one and only true purpose.I've asked before, and I'll ask again, please explain how the momentary wheelspin of a 4wd car will perform that task?

BTW, one would hope you and your attitude and poor personality are not at all representative of the "pro-drift" crowd - or are you?

Who knows, I don't really care how they react, but when someone says I'm wrong, when I know I'm right, I stand my ground. The fact you wouldn't listen to reason wound me up slightly, and allas my integrity has now suffered, the fact is, I haven't made an incorrect statement regarding the subject of burnouts, and you don't seem to be able to accept that.

And WTF is a 'pro-drifter" - you live off your "drift money" or you just get contingency money for making tyre smoke?

Professional - definition: following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain
Drifter - definition: a person or thing that drifts

Fairly self explanatory really. LOL

 

[TwinturboCH]

read the VERY FIRST paragraph in the definition.....even in the parenthesis

A burnout (also known as a peel out or power brake) is the practice of keeping a vehicle stationary (or close to) and spinning its wheels, causing the tires to heat up and smoke resulting from friction.....sheesh

and it states "MORE" difficult in a AWD or 4WD.....not impossible......

Please, for the last time, explain HOW you perform the following bit in an AWD:
'the practice of keeping a vehicle stationary (or close to) and spinning its wheels'

'KEEPING' being the operative word.

 

[St.Mackenzies]

LOL this thread has gone sooo wrong... I feel sorry for the OP.

 

[LS2_PONTIAC_GTO]

Please, for the last time, explain HOW you perform the following bit in an AWD:
'the practice of keeping a vehicle stationary (or close to) and spinning its wheels'

'KEEPING' being the operative word.

(or close to) can you not read those words on your own screen????

I'm done with this conversation, you can believe u r right....idc what you think really

 

[TwinturboCH]

(or close to) can you not read those words on your own screen????

Ok, HOW do you keep an AWD 'close to' stationary when all four wheels are spinning? I've been asking this question for two pages now and neither of you has even attempted to answer....

 

[garybee]

Ok, HOW do you keep an AWD 'close to' stationary when all four wheels are spinning? I've been asking this question for two pages now and neither of you has even attempted to answer....

Tie it to a tree kid.

 

[Denilson]

read the VERY FIRST paragraph in the definition.....even in the parenthesis

A burnout (also known as a peel out or power brake) is the practice of keeping a vehicle stationary (or close to) and spinning its wheels, causing the tires to heat up and smoke resulting from friction.....sheesh

and it states "MORE" difficult in a AWD or 4WD.....not impossible......

The problem is that you are refering to wikipedia, a site where I myself can whright anything about anything.. A uge problem these days are people taking info from wikipedia as facts.. Well, that's not the case I'm afraid. So it's not like you're refering to a sciencs site. It clearly says that you can do a bournout (in the whriters perspective) for a short while before the tires start to grip. Well, is that a newsflash? Offcourse it's possible, but still not a bournout. Because a bournout is (if you read the first part of the site you did refer to) when you spin the wheels with help from the brakes to stand still/move slow under control.. As soon as you "loose it" and the wheelspin and car no longer are under control, it becomes just wheelspin.. Not a bournout.

 

[LS2_PONTIAC_GTO]

The problem is that you are refering to wikipedia, a site where I myself can whright anything about anything.. A uge problem these days are people taking info from wikipedia as facts.. Well, that's not the case I'm afraid. So it's not like you're refering to a sciencs site. It clearly says that you can do a bournout (in the whriters perspective) for a short while before the tires start to grip. Well, is that a newsflash? Offcourse it's possible, but still not a bournout. Because a bournout is (if you read the first part of the site you did refer to) when you spin the wheels with help from the brakes to stand still/move slow under control.. As soon as you "loose it" and the wheelspin and car no longer are under control, it becomes just wheelspin.. Not a bournout.

then why dont you post a better more legitimate definition instead of just adding your own....you want to use whatever fits your argument from wiki and discard the rest....even in that definition it states that NASCAR racers gently pull up nose first to the outside wall and then use it to hold the car still while smoking the tires.....your definition pretty much says YOU HAVE TO USE THE BRAKES.... damn this is old

 

[Denilson]

Tie it to a tree kid.

👍

Yes! You need something to counteract the grip to perform a bournout.. A tree would work