M3?!?!

[s12ken]

Daimler Motor Carriage (LOL i'm not as crazy as james)

 

[exhorst]

it seems when i have played GT4 most of the German cars are great to drive on Nurburgring, and Japanese cars are really fun to drive on Suzuka, Tsukuba and Fuji, and again American cars are a blast do drive on Laguna with their softer suspension which absorb the elevation changes well.

this is shown when you drive most BMWs the RUFs and Mercedes and Audi on the 'Ring it is just so fun and they all perform so well there coz they were all bred there. same with the Japanese cars, their close ratio gearboxes and turbos make them quick around Japanese tracks with tight turns and get them out of slow turns quick smart.

 

[Dark-Hawk]

MachOne: You talk about the M3 as if it's some high class exotic car. It by all means is a great handling car, that will also do some damage in a straight line, has a nice luxorious interior, and I love the brakes on the M3, very nice setup! However, by no means should this car be regarded as a "legend," nor should the expensive cost for tuning by justified by you saying it's because of it's high build quality, it's more so due to the fact that they are harder to tune.
By the way, a 3000GT VR4, GTO VR4 MR or a Dodge Stealth RT TT would give an M3 a beating in a straight line, I've witnessed this time and time again; this is of course talking stock for stock, start modding the cars and the winner is the one with more money and who knows how to mod properly lol. It'd be able to hang with it through the corners, but the M3 is definitley a more superior handling car, especially stock for stock.
The FQ400 however would man handle an M3, I'm sorry to say but yes, an AWD car can and will out handle a RWD car barring the driver knows how to properly handle the AWD car, RWD gets a bit more tricky due to the fact that it will over steer a bit, and the AWD is a bit tricky as well though due to the fact that it is more apt to understeer.
Also I note how you call he LS a pig... It's funny because the M3 has a curb weight of approximately 3415lbs... This by no means is regarded as a light weight car in the import world, for that car being a RWD car, and not having to deal with the intricies of a transfer case or AWD transmission, such as the VR4. I would definitley call the M3 a pig of a car considering it's RWD and weights almost 3500lbs. I know my RWD car weighs no where near there, nor will it ever.

 

[niky]

I would definitley call the M3 a pig of a car considering it's RWD and weights almost 3500lbs. I know my RWD car weighs no where near there, nor will it ever.

FINALLY someone mentions it.

Fact is, the M3 handles well, despite its weight... but yeah, it's a porker.

And to exhorst: - that thing about cars handling best on their market's own tracks? Used to be true to a point, but with new cars being developed everywhere, and the fact that Japanese have been testing on the 'ring for ages now (and the Americans for the past few years, at least), everything new handles well. A Corvette or Viper will handle the ring just as well as the Germans, and a Skyline can traverse it quite a bit faster than some cars with better power-weight ratios. So it can't be given as a general rule.

 

[exhorst]

And to exhorst: - that thing about cars handling best on their market's own tracks? Used to be true to a point, but with new cars being developed everywhere, and the fact that Japanese have been testing on the 'ring for ages now (and the Americans for the past few years, at least), everything new handles well. A Corvette or Viper will handle the ring just as well as the Germans, and a Skyline can traverse it quite a bit faster than some cars with better power-weight ratios. So it can't be given as a general rule.

yeah you are right 👍 i didn't say japanese cars couldnt handle the Nurburgring or Corvettes couldnt either, i just meant in GT4 it seems to be that cars perform best at their home tracks, but its just what i think and is probably not the same for everyone

 

[niky]

Given that, I do find that a BMW feels more natural around the ring than a Viper...

 

[JFM92_GTRacer]

Daimler Motor Carriage (LOL i'm not as crazy as james)

LOL how long did that take u?

 

[s12ken]

I wouldn't try if i wanted to.. i don't have that much patience and i have a 6 day work week soooo. i don't think i'll be trying THAT anytime soon.

 

[McLaren]

MachOne: You talk about the M3 as if it's some high class exotic car. It by all means is a great handling car, that will also do some damage in a straight line, has a nice luxorious interior, and I love the brakes on the M3, very nice setup! However, by no means should this car be regarded as a "legend," nor should the expensive cost for tuning by justified by you saying it's because of it's high build quality, it's more so due to the fact that they are harder to tune.
By the way, a 3000GT VR4, GTO VR4 MR or a Dodge Stealth RT TT would give an M3 a beating in a straight line, I've witnessed this time and time again; this is of course talking stock for stock, start modding the cars and the winner is the one with more money and who knows how to mod properly lol. It'd be able to hang with it through the corners, but the M3 is definitley a more superior handling car, especially stock for stock.
The FQ400 however would man handle an M3, I'm sorry to say but yes, an AWD car can and will out handle a RWD car barring the driver knows how to properly handle the AWD car, RWD gets a bit more tricky due to the fact that it will over steer a bit, and the AWD is a bit tricky as well though due to the fact that it is more apt to understeer.
Also I note how you call he LS a pig... It's funny because the M3 has a curb weight of approximately 3415lbs... This by no means is regarded as a light weight car in the import world, for that car being a RWD car, and not having to deal with the intricies of a transfer case or AWD transmission, such as the VR4. I would definitley call the M3 a pig of a car considering it's RWD and weights almost 3500lbs. I know my RWD car weighs no where near there, nor will it ever.

Are you high?

The M3 can take the 3000GT VR4 on easily. Not to mention, the M3 is much quicker on the accelerater due to the VR4 being a heavy ass.
The M3 would get an extremely good start, in the end, it'd have to be a close call, but the M3 could probably win by a few milliseconds.

BUT in NO way, will a VR4 hand a M3 its ass.

 

[JTSnooks]

Well the 3000GT VR-4 runs 0-60 in around 5.4 seconds and the quarter mile in 13.5@101.6mph, according to a 3000GT fan website thingy. I couldn't find any official roadtests because they've been discontinued for a while, but I figure the numbers are going to be optimistic if anything.

The M3 runs 0-60 in 4.5-5.0 seconds, and the quarter mile around 13.3@104.4. As for handling, I seriously doubt a 3000GT can outhandle an M3 without some serious modification. The 3000GT VR4 weighs 3,803lbs, and the M3 weighs 3383lbs, which is not that heavy, really At least not in my opinion. I'm not saying the 3000GT is a bad car, it's actually very good car, but it's not quite in the class of the M3.

And I'm not rich, there's no way I could afford an M3 right now. And I probably wouldn't buy one anyway because they cost too much, and there are cheaper cars I'd rather have. But it is a very good car, and would be an absolute blast to drive.

 

[s12ken]

The 3000GT is an as$ heavy car... I seriously doubt that it could outhandle an M3 on the track, tru it does have AWD but the thing is, on the track, you WANT to have oversteer, it just gets you around the corners quicker. Besides how many 3000GTs or Stealths have you seen take on the ring? much less win in the Nurburgring 24h and win it as a fairwell gift? The 3000GT is a cpable car, but not without some serious dieting... the M3 is just superior in handling and class, it's all about finnesse people, brute strength just doesn't cut it anymore, I've seen an elise man handle cars with twice the hp and weight, and the elise is an MR mind you.

 

[Kylehnat]

As for the topic at hand, does it really matter how the car handles? I worry about gas mileage. Unless you push the car to it's limits around every bend, and swerve through traffic, I don't see how it really matters how a car handles. If you do drive like that, you're probably a menace on the roads.

Absolutely untrue. Cars that handle well are much safer and easier to drive, even on low-speed public roads. I've driven tons of cars, and I am most comfortable and smooth behind the wheel of a car that tracks straight and goes where I want it to. Poor handling cars are unsafe, especially in the hands of inexperienced or distracted drivers (which everyone on the road seems to be). The closest I've ever been to getting in an accident was in my friend's Acura Legend, which quite possibly has the worst stock steering/suspension setup ever put on a road car. Was I driving like a menace? No. I was doing a routine lane change on the freeway. What should have been easy was turned into an adventure due to zero steering feedback and overly-soft springs (heavy traffic didn't help either, though the guy on my right was nice enough to honk at me to let me know i'd drifted about 5 feet further than i should have). *end of condescending public service announcement*

 

[niky]

That's true. I'd rather be able to control a sudden slide or avoid an accident than have a cushy ride, anytime. I've been there, done that, and good handling is at the top of my list, followed by air-conditioning, fuel efficiency, and maybe, just maybe, speed... suspension comfort is a bonus if I can get it, if not, tough.. I'll live with the ride.

 

[Lavindathar]

I agree completely.

My Fiesta is a pure track car, that I use as an every day car. The reason? If something goes wrong, I want ulitmate response so I can change the outcome.

I learnt my lesson when the back end gave on my 205 due to a tyre blow-out, and it rolled into a house. (feedback isn't the question here - the 205 was just a pure rally breed, and I knew as soon as the tyre went I was doomed...it handled brilliantly, i just couldn't avoid the inevitible).

So, I relocated the Mk2 XR2 engine into a Mk3 RST shell. It's got awesomly wide wheels now for extra traction. It's as low as it can go etc.

Basically, it's an uncomfy ride at times (hence the £500 a seat seats - to try and make it a bit comfy), but I prefer it that way because the responses are brilliant.

 

[Dark-Hawk]

yeah you are right 👍 i didn't say japanese cars couldnt handle the Nurburgring or Corvettes couldnt either, i just meant in GT4 it seems to be that cars perform best at their home tracks, but its just what i think and is probably not the same for everyone

Wow, thats intelligent... Use how a car handles in a game as fact! 👍

Are you high?

The M3 can take the 3000GT VR4 on easily. Not to mention, the M3 is much quicker on the accelerater due to the VR4 being a heavy ass.
The M3 would get an extremely good start, in the end, it'd have to be a close call, but the M3 could probably win by a few milliseconds.

BUT in NO way, will a VR4 hand a M3 its ass.

Mmm no, sorry but the VR4 will maul the M3, especially if we're talking about a drag race. The VR4 is a torquey *****, with AWD so it's going to launch hard.

Well the 3000GT VR-4 runs 0-60 in around 5.4 seconds and the quarter mile in 13.5@101.6mph, according to a 3000GT fan website thingy. I couldn't find any official roadtests because they've been discontinued for a while, but I figure the numbers are going to be optimistic if anything.

The M3 runs 0-60 in 4.5-5.0 seconds, and the quarter mile around 13.3@104.4. As for handling, I seriously doubt a 3000GT can outhandle an M3 without some serious modification. The 3000GT VR4 weighs 3,803lbs, and the M3 weighs 3383lbs, which is not that heavy, really At least not in my opinion. I'm not saying the 3000GT is a bad car, it's actually very good car, but it's not quite in the class of the M3.

And I'm not rich, there's no way I could afford an M3 right now. And I probably wouldn't buy one anyway because they cost too much, and there are cheaper cars I'd rather have. But it is a very good car, and would be an absolute blast to drive.

Sorry but that's not a "fan" website then thats probably a magazine website, because they are in the mid to high 12's stock all day long if you know how to launch it. The reason why you'll see alot of the magazines saying mid 13's is because the simple fact that no one knew how to take advantage of the AWD drive train and they bogged it off the line, simply put though if you can only take a stock VR4 to 13.5 you cannot drive for ****.

Yes the M3 is a heavy car by all standards, especially to me considering my car weighs a bit under 2600lbs at the moment.

The 3000GT is an as$ heavy car... I seriously doubt that it could outhandle an M3 on the track, tru it does have AWD but the thing is, on the track, you WANT to have oversteer, it just gets you around the corners quicker. Besides how many 3000GTs or Stealths have you seen take on the ring? much less win in the Nurburgring 24h and win it as a fairwell gift? The 3000GT is a cpable car, but not without some serious dieting... the M3 is just superior in handling and class, it's all about finnesse people, brute strength just doesn't cut it anymore, I've seen an elise man handle cars with twice the hp and weight, and the elise is an MR mind you.

No you want oversteer to drift, you don't want it to get around a track fastest, I actually auto-x and drift my car in real life, not in some video game. I know the 3/S has been around "the ring" as to what times it's gotten I'm not sure.

 

[Lavindathar]

Lol, all these heavy cars.

I'd estimate mine weighs about 1900lbs. Lol.

 

[Lavindathar]

According to a Top Gear clip I've got on my laptop, the M3 outperforms and outhandles the GT3000.

I can't comment as I've never drove a GT3000.

The judging is done by Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Burns and Tim Harvy.

 

[Dave A]

Wow, thats intelligent... Use how a car handles in a game as fact! 👍



Mmm no, sorry but the VR4 will maul the M3, especially if we're talking about a drag race. The VR4 is a torquey *****, with AWD so it's going to launch hard.

1st off, he was giving his opinion on GT4, secondly, the M3 out accelerates the VR4 to 60, it out handles the VR4 and theres not much in it when 100 arrives. I'd rather a car thats roughly as fast and can handle far better than a car that can get from 60-100 faster.

 

[Evolution.]

The drag race is a test of pure acceleration.There are no corners involved.The M3 was not MADE for the strip.It was made for courses like the 'Ring,where it's real power shows...it's handling.For being what it is,it is a damn light car.You guys keep saying your cars are 1900 .lbs,2600 .lbs etc.But hey,does your car have a beasty Inline-6?Does it have one of the most reliable frame and suspension setups in the world for a street car?Does it have the luxury of a BMW,the power of a BMW,and the handling of a BMW?I would guess not.I cannot first-hand vouch for the M3 OR the 3000GT,but I will say this.You can read ANY review on an M3,M3 CSL,M3 GTR Street,or M3 GTR,you will see that in damn near every review you will see something about its beautiful handling.

 

[agent kri]

Doesn't a RWD accelerate faster than a AWD on straight line?

 

[Evolution.]

Doesn't a RWD accelerate faster than a AWD on straight line?

Usually,no.

RWD can produce mega wheelspin if you don't know how to launch.


AWD splits the power between all the wheels,which produces little to no wheelspin.It also has power covering a large area,which will grip much faster than a RWD will.

 

[agent kri]

A Drag racing car isn't AWD

 

[Dark-Hawk]

The drag race is a test of pure acceleration.There are no corners involved.The M3 was not MADE for the strip.It was made for courses like the 'Ring,where it's real power shows...it's handling.For being what it is,it is a damn light car.You guys keep saying your cars are 1900 .lbs,2600 .lbs etc.But hey,does your car have a beasty Inline-6?Does it have one of the most reliable frame and suspension setups in the world for a street car?Does it have the luxury of a BMW,the power of a BMW,and the handling of a BMW?I would guess not.I cannot first-hand vouch for the M3 OR the 3000GT,but I will say this.You can read ANY review on an M3,M3 CSL,M3 GTR Street,or M3 GTR,you will see that in damn near every review you will see something about its beautiful handling.

No, for being what it is you cannot say it is a damn light, it by all means is a heavy ****ing car. It doesn't have to deal with an AWD power plant doesn't have any of the extra **** needed for turboes, it's just a heavy ****ing car. Yes it handles well, yes it was built for handling, however no it will not beat a 3/S in the drag. Does my car have a beasty inline-6, ask me this next summer and yes it will as well as a turbo on it as well, and that will be in my 2600lb car. Does it have the luxory of a BMW? No, I didn't buy my car for luxory I bought it for performance and handling. Does my car have a reliable frame? What the hell type of question is that, all cars have a "reliable" frame, and yes it has an incredible suspension setup, give that a year also and I'll have a suspension setup that would baphel your video gaming mind. Although it's a little unfair for me to compare what I'll be driving to an M3... My car will just be a hybrid ***** of modifications, and parts from a 300ZX, S15 Silvia, and GTS Skyline. Congratulations you can read although you base your opinion off of **** you read far too much, I've driven the cars, I've been in the VR4 while it's racing M3's (from a roll).

Doesn't a RWD accelerate faster than a AWD on straight line?

Yes and no. Off the line an AWD car is going to have the jump on any RWD car, unless slicks are involved however we'll talk about stock for stock at the moment. Up top the RWD car is going to have a less severe drive train loss so it will be putting out a little more power, this is why the Skyline is said to have one of the best drivetrains in the world, one which will yes beat the **** out of the M3, I'm sorry buddy.

Usually,no.

RWD can produce mega wheelspin if you don't know how to launch.


AWD splits the power between all the wheels,which produces little to no wheelspin.It also has power covering a large area,which will grip much faster than a RWD will.

Yup, although AWD cars putting out significant power are going to be a bit trickier to handle off the line, because now instead of 2 wheels spinning you have all 4. For instance, one of the DSMs (Diamond Star Motor - Pre 1999 Mitsu Eclipse, Eagle Talon, and Plymouth Laser, as well as the Galant VR4) in the car club I'm in is running slicks all around, and all of the 11 and 10 second VR4's on 3si are spinning first and second lol, Ray Pampenera(SP) who basicly owns the worlds fastest VR4 was spinning all 4 if he down shifted at about 100mph.

A Drag racing car isn't AWD

Go do a search for John Shepard and tell me his car isn't a drag car.

 

[Dave A]

Dragsters geenrally are rwd in higher classes, mainly because s you said theres less power loss, also they wear big, wide slicks and a 4wd car has more parts so the weight is upped. You can use 4wd in a drag race, and you can be competitive in one, but generally rwd is a better starting point.

 

[soptom]

Mmm no, sorry but the VR4 will maul the M3, especially if we're talking about a drag race.
I know the 3/S has been around "the ring" as to what times it's gotten I'm not sure.

ONLY if you're talking about a drag race and that's debatable, any other kind of tarmac work and the M3 is a better car.
The facts are, nearly every tester, be they magazine test drivers or racers aknowledge the latest M3 as a very good, if not great, all round sports car, the 3/S doesn't get anywhere near the same kind of reviews.

 

[LandoAWD]

Yes it handles well, yes it was built for handling, however no it will not beat a 3/S in the drag.

The numbers dictate otherwise. It would come down to driver skill, and this is exactly why bench-racing is for the birds.

Does my car have a beasty inline-6, ask me this next summer and yes it will as well as a turbo on it as well, and that will be in my 2600lb car. ... and yes it has an incredible suspension setup, give that a year also and I'll have a suspension setup that would baphel your video gaming mind. Although it's a little unfair for me to compare what I'll be driving to an M3... My car will just be a hybrid ***** of modifications, and parts from a 300ZX, S15 Silvia, and GTS Skyline.

So we are basing arguments on a car that has yet to be built, or...

Yes and no. Off the line an AWD car is going to have the jump on any RWD car, unless slicks are involved

...or the driver is your typical 17yr old DSMer.

Yup, although AWD cars putting out significant power are going to be a bit trickier to handle off the line, because now instead of 2 wheels spinning you have all 4.

Not when properly set up.

Go do a search for John *Shepard and tell me his car isn't a drag car.

*Shepherd

Nothing like telling folks to search for someone who wont turn up the desired results...

By application, it certainly is, more so this year than last, but by traditional definitions, it is not, so the poster was not entirely incorrect.

I'm all for brand loyalty and such, but recognizing other cars for what benefits they provide is what seperates the enthusiasts in motorsports.

 

[LandoAWD]

Also:
2002 BMW M3 4.7 13.4

1997 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 4.8 13.6


Doesn't look like a mauling to me, but what do I know besides math...

 

[Kylehnat]

Does my car have a beasty inline-6, ask me this next summer and yes it will as well as a turbo on it as well, and that will be in my 2600lb car. Does it have the luxory of a BMW? No, I didn't buy my car for luxory I bought it for performance and handling. Does my car have a reliable frame? What the hell type of question is that, all cars have a "reliable" frame, and yes it has an incredible suspension setup, give that a year also and I'll have a suspension setup that would baphel your video gaming mind. Although it's a little unfair for me to compare what I'll be driving to an M3... My car will just be a hybrid ***** of modifications, and parts from a 300ZX, S15 Silvia, and GTS Skyline. Congratulations you can read although you base your opinion off of **** you read far too much, I've driven the cars, I've been in the VR4 while it's racing M3's (from a roll).

I'm sorry, but your posts are quite annoying. Anyone who protests too much knows that they are wrong.

About your planned car: You cannot honestly say that your car will weigh 2600lbs after those modifications. Putting a bigger engine in a car seriously increases the weight, and will change the balance as well. Turbocharging? Way to go with the little 17 year-old boy modifications. And no, not all cars have a reliable frame.

Think carefully before saying each word, so you're not just blowing a big load of **** around.

 

[Androoos]

you ever driven one? cuz if you have you would know its faster than a stock G35/350Z

and while your at it....the other guy wanted to compare the Evo 8 to the CSL...compare the CSL to the FQ-400

I have never driven an LS430. It's about $20,000 over the extreme top of my price range, and I don't know anyone who has one. I'll leave it for all the "pretty people" in Beverly Hills to drive, as I swore every other car was an LS the last time I visited the area. They were everywhere.

Anyway, comparisons. Well...the CSL would kick the crap out of a stock Evo 8. Hands down. Strip some weight off the Evo and give it some suspension mods and I think it *could* keep up.

The FQ-400...well, that's another story. I think the M3 CSL would get slaughtered. You'd probably have to jump up to the M3 GTR road car to catch up to the FQ-400. It'd be an interesting one for Top Gear though...I'd rather see that race than the FQ-400 vs. a Murcielago. 👍

And I apologize for the "moron" comments. Uncalled for. I was more than anything, and that started with the comments about an M3 vs. a 3000GT VR-4.

 

[JTSnooks]

Better make sure you don't run into anything in your 2600lb car...or better yet, make sure nothing runs into you And how can you say that the times for the 3000GT are invalid because the testers don't know how to launch it when the exact same people are launching the M3, which should be harder to launch well since it's RWD? Do they know how to drive or don't they? And the site I got the info from WAS a fan's site because I couldn't find any magazine reviews of it since it's been discontinued for so long. I actually like 3000GTs and especially Stealths. But I'm not going to claim it's a better car than an M3 when it has less horsepower and weighs 500lbs more.