MAD CATZ Steering Wheel....If your on a BUDGET??

[Ragnar1211]

I have officially changed my mind! After 2 more solid nights of driving with the DFP I am completely satisfied. I am actually almost as good as I was with the controller now. 👍

My problem was that I have never used a wheel before and expected it to be just a smooth version of the analog controls. The force feedback is a little strong on some courses - Laguna Seca anyone?

Someone mentioned that it is possible to turn the feedback off, but when I press the key combo the light flashes once but the feedback stays - are you sure it can be turned off.

By the way I tried the Mad Catz in EB games and the quality just didnt feel the same.

 

[Skant]

Someone mentioned that it is possible to turn the feedback off, but when I press the key combo the light flashes once but the feedback stays - are you sure it can be turned off.

The key combo adjusts the level of feedback between 60% and 100%. You can also set the strength of the feedback in the GT config menu. It's a little inobvious under an icon called 'Steering' which is next to the icons for different types of steering wheels and looks like it's a selection for a steering wheel type rather than settings for the steering wheel that was chosen.

To turn off force feedback completely, you can just unplug the wall power.

However, I would strongly recommend just leaving it on full and getting used to it. It communicates to you about what the car is doing. And you won't want to go without it once you understand the 'language'. Those bumps and jerks are not random or meaningless.

- Skant

 

[DLRgian]

thats a pretty sweet vette is it the LT1?..my 1997 LT4 SS 30th is in the pic

 

[mld0806]

I know I'm buying the Mad Catz wheel this payday. Don't have enough room to mount a DFP, and don't like force feedback anyhow.

Kinda sucks that the game design forces you to buy a wheel instead of being able to change the sensitivities on your controllers. I figured out that I just can't get gold in iB 1 because I don't have the precision control necessary to cut the last .021 off.

 

[Mustang_lover]

Nice camaro. Heres a pic of my old (Sold to pay off loans) white '91 firebird and my fathers '88 Black Formula
My car only had the 3.1 6cyl
My fathers has the 5.7

 

[Lisa_Bonami]

Well folks, I just picked up the MAD CATZ Universal Steering Wheel last night from Gamestop for $59. ( The yellow one ) I was at Best Buy and saw the XBOX version which was Green and Black and it look much slicker...same design but just seemed to look more stylish and newer. I was really tempted to buy the XBOX one but I didnt understand why the price was also $59 and it only supported the XBOX while the Universal supported all 3 consoles and was the same price....

...So I simply went with the Universal ( If any of you know if there is an actual physical difference between the 2 besides just supported consoles, please chime in with some feedback )

Anyways, There are things I was pleasantly surprised with the Wheel and some things that also dissapointed me a bit:

The pedals actually had a pretty good feel for a cheap package but keeping them from sliding on a plywood surface is much more difficult then the DFP pedals. They're not as heavy so they are easier slid. Also as other's mentioned, the pedals seem to result in maximum button pressure ( mainly throttle ) at only about 50% pressed to the floor. I noticed this much more in GT4 than I did in Forza. In GT4, even the slightest pedal pressure seemed to give full throttle to the on screen meter and start the wheels spinning. This could be a big issue.
In Forza, the range of pressure for the throttle seemed to yield a bit more levels of sensitivity...so perhaps its a GT4 conversion to MC wheel pedals issue rather than a problem with the actual pedals alone.

I was pleasantly surprised that the wheel had a nice feel and the turning didnt feel cheap like I expected it would. The cool thing about the wheel is that you can tweak the deadzone and the wheel turning percentage on the fly with the press of a button and a LED visual indicator showing you the degrees of your changes.

Another thing that I found a bit of a let down was the mounting system for the wheel in comparison to my DFP. I have a custom made driving desk made of unfinished plywood and the DFP mounting system works great with clamps however the MADCATZ uses 3 suctions pads that dont work at all for this type of surface so I had to pretty much test it out with no securage ( i made this word up ) at all on the desk...Tonight I am going to try some simple velcro strips to try and remedy this

All in all, Im not completely sure if i am going to keep the wheel simply because I am a real stickler for perfection and high quality and the DFP wheel just seems so much more complete and better made but I still need another wheel for FORZA so I may keep it if I dont go for the $150 Forza Speedstar wheel. Its a pleasant wheel thats fun to use....I'll have to play with it some more with everything more securely mounted ( pedals and wheels ) to see if I get used to it.


Any opinions?

 

[vrus]

Whatever you do, don't ever map x and square to your pedals. Turns out if you press/do more than 3 things at a time it will simply corrupt your rumble port forever, thus making your mc3 and rumble feature on ps2 useless. I tried breaking the 'correct' way in battle gear 3. Mapped x and square to pedals (since it came with on instructions) and boom, after first try to turn correctly (hold break handbreak turn and I think accel too?) couldn't . blah

 

[Zardoz]

The silly screen meter is as dumb as the default deadband. I don't think it has any relation to actual throttle input. It may be because I've been using it so long, but I don't find the throttle to be overly sensitive at all. While racing, I always seem to be able to apply the amount of throttle I want to have.

If you're using a mount for the wheel, I can see how you're wondering what to do. It appears to be made mostly for just resting on your knees.

To keep the pedals in place, I got some scrap plywood and a couple of other pieces and made a little thing that the pedals sit on. One piece of wood keeps the pedals from sliding off the far end of the plywood, the other piece of wood hooks inside the bottom edge of the sofa. Works great, and I just slide it under the sofa when not in use.

 

[animateria]

I think the DF Forcefeed Back is a better buy, it seems like a cheaper DFP... the only thing it seems to be missing is the shift nob...

I just can't imagine using a wheel with no feedback at all on GT4.... The wheel gives me every detail of the course as possible... All the feedback is just so much enjoyable even if I'm struggling to stablize the car in those shaky Nurb straights...
GT4 definitely feels more correct with a wheel like this...

Though I would understand in some other games the feedback kills the playability.. (NFSU2... Pretty horrifying even if I just slightly tap the wall.. Option to turn it off is in there though)

 

[Skant]

thats a pretty sweet vette is it the LT1?..my 1997 LT4 SS 30th is in the pic

It's the LT4.

Your ride looks sweet. I think GM made a horrible mistake dropping the Camaros... I want em back!

- Skant

 

[Ikari_San]

Is it just me or has nobody mentioned the fact that DFP uses 900 degrees?

I honestly would not bother with the Madcatz or any other wheel simply because going back to 180 degrees steering feels so completely retarded and fake.

 

[Sohcahtoa]

My Dad got a used MC2 wheel for $10 and gave it to me.

I find that even with the deadband set to the lowest setting, there's STILL too much play in the wheel before the game registers it. I find it difficult to make very slight corrections in my steering.

I REALLY wish I knew someone with a DFP so that I could try one. I'd love to finally race with a wheel that has 900 degrees of rotation, more like a real car steering wheel. Not to mention having much more accurate force feedback...

When driving in real life, I feel so much from just the wheel. It rains a lot where I live, and I've gotten to learn to feel for looseness in the wheel to tell me that my front tires are hydroplaning. To have a wheel for GT4 that does the same type of thing would just be so nice.

 

[DLRgian]

Nice camaro. Heres a pic of my old (Sold to pay off loans) white '91 firebird and my fathers '88 Black Formula
My car only had the 3.1 6cyl
My fathers has the 5.7

those r pretty nice

 

[Zardoz]

Is it just me or has nobody mentioned the fact that DFP uses 900 degrees?

Sure wish I could find that video link to an in-cockpit view of the Toyota TS020 GT-One being driven at Le Mans.

The steering wheel on that car isn't even round. The top third of it is cut out. It looks like an airplane wheel. During the entire lap, the driver never turns the wheel more than about 70 degrees from center.

Other than when parallel parking, which we don't do a lot of in GT4, when would we want to use any more rotation than 200 degrees? Certainly none of the high-performance cars would ever use it, so is it intended to make driving very slow production cars more realistic?

The only time I used more than 200 degrees of steering when I borrowed my friend's DFP was when I was trying to recover from a spin. The extra rotation and the FF combined to make it really difficult.

 

[nurburgring]

Sure wish I could find that video link to an in-cockpit view of the Toyota TS020 GT-One being driven at Le Mans.

The steering wheel on that car isn't even round. The top third of it is cut out. It looks like an airplane wheel. During the entire lap, the driver never turns the wheel more than about 70 degrees from center.

Other than when parallel parking, which we don't do a lot of in GT4, when would we want to use any more rotation than 200 degrees? Certainly none of the high-performance cars would ever use it, so is it intended to make driving very slow production cars more realistic?

The only time I used more than 200 degrees of steering when I borrowed my friend's DFP was when I was trying to recover from a spin. The extra rotation and the FF combined to make it really difficult.

In my real Miata = 2 1/2 turns means 900 degrees.
That's why they did it for the DFP: because a lot of real sport cars have the same set up. And there is not much difference on the real race cars....

When configurate to 200 degrees, it is WAY too much sensitive and totally unrealistic.
I agree you rarely use the 900 degrees rotation but it is the only way to recreate a real steering wheel "motion".
It would be simply impossible to drive correctly and safely a car with 200 degrees set up on the steering...

And i just watch a lap on Suzuka in the McLaren driven By Senna in 1993 (camera on board).
On the last chicane, he had to turn the steering for more than 220 degrees on the right and just after more than 250 degrees on the left while going slighly sideways...

 

[Lisa_Bonami]

why is there a RED universal MAdcatz and also a YELLOW one???
anyone know the difference...if there is one?

 

[DLRgian]

i dun know jus buy a friggin wheel

 

[Lisa_Bonami]

please forgive me but I want to get the right wheel

 

[Zardoz]

Well folks, I just picked up the MAD CATZ Universal Steering Wheel last night from Gamestop for $59. ( The yellow one )

why is there a RED universal MAdcatz and also a YELLOW one???
anyone know the difference...if there is one?

please forgive me but I want to get the right wheel

I'm so confused. Do you or don't you already have a yellow one?

My very old unit is red. All the ones I've seen in shops are yellow now. Maybe they just changed colors. Who cares? Just plug it in and DRIVE!!!

Sheesh...

 

[Lisa_Bonami]

pardon my French....I have the Yellow one but I want to make sure the RED isnt a better wheel because if it is, then I'll switch them.....sheeesh

 

[DLRgian]

please forgive me but I want to get the right wheel

its k dun worry bout it..remember the saying.."u get what u pay for"..take that into consideration

 

[DLRgian]

Lisa Bonami r u italian?

 

[Ikari_San]

Other than when parallel parking, which we don't do a lot of in GT4, when would we want to use any more rotation than 200 degrees?

I use more than 200 degrees through about 50% of all turns (depending on the car and circuit of course). Places like hairpins, tight chicanes, or when drifting on the rally courses are some examples.

More importantly is the precision you can achieve with 900 degrees, you can make such small adjustments that I could not do with the Driving Force wheel. I actually had trouble keeping the car dead-straight at high speeds with the Driving Force, simply because one degree of steering was so large.

I don't want to harp on here, mostly because the idiots at Logitech can't seem to manufacture the DFP properly, but the DFP really does provide a feeling of control that is unparalleled.


Edit: Also in Richard Burns Rally, you can set the amount of degrees to use. I'm using 540 at the moment and it feels bloody awesome!

 

[Sohcahtoa]

Yeah...I think the people that say "Why do you need 900 degrees when you only USE 200 degrees?" are TOTALLY missing the point.

Turning a 200 degree wheel 100 degrees creates an insanely sharp turn. You're actually reaching the very limit of steering input on that. Turning a 900 degree wheel 100 degrees creates a very wide turn.

If that doesn't help, think of it this way. If you turn a 200 degree wheel 10 degrees, that's the equivalent of turning a 900 degree wheel 45 degrees. How often do you turn your wheel 45 degrees on the highway? Probably only during the sharper turns. How often do you turn it a mere 10 degrees? Probably all the time. Lane changes, slight turns, etc. But that 10 degrees of rotation on a 200 degree wheel translates to less than 2 degrees.

Translation: A 200 degree wheel doesn't provide anywhere NEAR the precision a driver really needs for high-speed racing, IMO. Sure, you can eventually get used to it, but having the precision of a 900 degree wheel makes things FAR easier (At least, I would think that it does...I don't own a 900-degree wheel)

The MC2 allows you to define how far you need to turn the wheel to trigger the maximum steering input. Unfortunately, changing that setting would really only make things even LESS precise, as you could imagine the difficulty driving a car that had a wheel that turned the tires 45 degrees with only 45 degrees of rotation. The slightest steering input could send the car swerving or out of control.

If only the MC2 would allow me to desensitize the wheel. Like to make it steer like a 900 degree wheel, but still limited to the 200 degrees of rotation. Of course, then I'd be greatly limiting the maneuverability of my car at lower speeds when I'd actually be turning the wheel more than 100 degrees in each direction.

 

[Ikari_San]

Yeah...I think the people that say "Why do you need 900 degrees when you only USE 200 degrees?" are TOTALLY missing the point.

Turning a 200 degree wheel 100 degrees creates an insanely sharp turn. You're actually reaching the very limit of steering input on that. Turning a 900 degree wheel 100 degrees creates a very wide turn.

If that doesn't help, think of it this way. If you turn a 200 degree wheel 10 degrees, that's the equivalent of turning a 900 degree wheel 45 degrees. How often do you turn your wheel 45 degrees on the highway? Probably only during the sharper turns. How often do you turn it a mere 10 degrees? Probably all the time. Lane changes, slight turns, etc. But that 10 degrees of rotation on a 200 degree wheel translates to less than 2 degrees.

Translation: A 200 degree wheel doesn't provide anywhere NEAR the precision a driver really needs for high-speed racing, IMO. Sure, you can eventually get used to it, but having the precision of a 900 degree wheel makes things FAR easier (At least, I would think that it does...I don't own a 900-degree wheel)

The MC2 allows you to define how far you need to turn the wheel to trigger the maximum steering input. Unfortunately, changing that setting would really only make things even LESS precise, as you could imagine the difficulty driving a car that had a wheel that turned the tires 45 degrees with only 45 degrees of rotation. The slightest steering input could send the car swerving or out of control.

If only the MC2 would allow me to desensitize the wheel. Like to make it steer like a 900 degree wheel, but still limited to the 200 degrees of rotation. Of course, then I'd be greatly limiting the maneuverability of my car at lower speeds when I'd actually be turning the wheel more than 100 degrees in each direction.

You said it.

I also think it's worth mentioning that you cant turn a 900 degree wheel as fast a 200 degree wheel, so you may develop skills with a 200 degree wheel (such as fast weight transfer or inertia drift, or just drifting in general) that really can't be done with the lower sensitivity of 900 degree steering. Once you learn to control the car intimately with 900 degree steering it makes you feel like a pro

Also, just watched the Monaco F1 and noticed they seemed to be reaching full lock around the hairpin (although I can't confirm that it's full lock) at just over 180 degrees left lock (roughly 360 degree total steering, though it could've been an extra quarter turn to the left making it 540 - indy cars for example use at least 540 (possibly 720, as I remember seeing)). Considering the speed and sensitivity of an F1/Indy car you'd have to be mad to use a 200 degree set up.

Oh, and the 200 degree wheels are actually 180 btw, if anyones counting.

Conclusion : 200 degree wheels suck!

 

[Zardoz]

I've been watching the American Le Mans race at Mid-Ohio today. They've shown many in-cockpit views from many cars, including the GT2 Porsches. I watched intently, studying how far they were turning their wheels.

The LMP cars appear to use about 150 degrees of steering. The GT2 cars use what appears to be exactly 200 degrees: I never saw any of the drivers turn the wheels more than a little past 90 degrees from center.

Sure, true stock production cars on really tight courses would use more steering. However, I did not buy GT4 to simulate the driving I do in my boring little Accord every day, so its hard to understand why 900 degrees is necessary.

200 degrees simulates race car steering. That's what I bought GT4 for. For me, 200-degree wheels give me exactly what I want.

 

[pmc40]

I've been watching the American Le Mans race at Mid-Ohio today. They've shown many in-cockpit views from many cars, including the GT2 Porsches. I watched intently, studying how far they were turning their wheels.

The LMP cars appear to use about 150 degrees of steering. The GT2 cars use what appears to be exactly 200 degrees: I never saw any of the drivers turn the wheels more than a little past 90 degrees from center.

Sure, true stock production cars on really tight courses would use more steering. However, I did not buy GT4 to simulate the driving I do in my boring little Accord every day, so its hard to understand why 900 degrees is necessary.

200 degrees simulates race car steering. That's what I bought GT4 for. For me, 200-degree wheels give me exactly what I want.

too true, a complete and utter waste of time, unless they come out with a learn to drive simulator, then i see no need for 900 degree steering, I have a dfp by the way and thats the only feature I dont like. It is impossible to correct the car when u lose control in 900 mode, which is no fun at all. 200 degree dont work with gt4 neither which is a shame, it just shakes violently.

 

[EAGLE 5]

If you're on a budget look for a Cobra TT wheel. I have one and it is just great! plus it comes with a lap attachment which is something a lot of wheels don't have and is a must depending on your rig. The only downside is that the newest models of the Cobra TT have a different pedal box and isn't nearly as good as the first gen (which I have) because it is smaller but that's all a matter of getting used to. Otherwise great wheel and very cheap too because it's often on sale ant BB or Fry's.

 

[Skant]

Lets see if I can shed a bit of light on this...

In RL, steering is generally measured as the number of turns lock to lock.

The DFP wheel is 2.5 turns lock to lock.

Normal RL street cars are typically 3.0 to 3.5 turns lock to lock.

Sports cars are typically 2.0 to 2.5 turns lock to lock.

Production based race cars usually have the same steering as sports cars. ie. 2.0 to 2.5 turns lock to lock.

Formula cars are typically 1.0 turns lock to lock.


The travel of the steering wheel isn't the entire story however. While a normal car might be 3.0 turns and a F1 car might be 1.0 turns... the F1 car has a very poor minimum turn radius. That is, neither the steering wheel _nor_ the tires can turn as far on the F1 car as the normal car.

What matters more here is how 'quick' the steering is.... ie. how quickly the front tires actually turn as you turn the steering wheel. The steering wheel on an F1 car turns in a narrow range... but so do its front tires... so its steering is not actually as much quicker than a normal street car as you might expect. Maybe 25% to 50% faster.

Why can't an F1 car turn as tightly as a normal street car? #1 It doesn't need to. Even the tightest hairpin on a track isn't anywhere near as tight as turning to park in a parking space in front of your local grocery store. #2 Wide tires can't turn as far. There has to be clearance for the suspension to reach into the center of the tire when the tire is turned. The wider the tire, the more quickly the clearance goes away as it is turned. #3 There simply isn't space in an F1 cockpit to turn the wheel farther than that.

Production based race cars and sports cars generally have a tighter turn radius available than that. And they can turn the steering wheel farther. But they don't usually have to. During a race, you wouldn't normally turn the wheel farther than a half turn in either direction. In fact, this is quite intentional... you'd rather not have to shuffle your hands on the steering wheel.

This doesn't mean that the 200 degree gaming steering wheels are more or less realistic. They traverse the entire steering range in that short distance. Steering is unrealistically fast.. typically about 3 times faster than RL.


All that being said, I'm not making an argument about which is actually best in terms of getting the best lap times in GT4. I'm just saying that the DFP is by far the most realistic. It matches real cars very well.

- Skant

 

[Sohcahtoa]

I've been watching the American Le Mans race at Mid-Ohio today. They've shown many in-cockpit views from many cars, including the GT2 Porsches. I watched intently, studying how far they were turning their wheels.

The LMP cars appear to use about 150 degrees of steering. The GT2 cars use what appears to be exactly 200 degrees: I never saw any of the drivers turn the wheels more than a little past 90 degrees from center.

Sure, true stock production cars on really tight courses would use more steering. However, I did not buy GT4 to simulate the driving I do in my boring little Accord every day, so its hard to understand why 900 degrees is necessary.

200 degrees simulates race car steering. That's what I bought GT4 for. For me, 200-degree wheels give me exactly what I want.

Dude, you TOTALLY missed the point of my post, or you didn't read it at all.

Its not just about how much you can turn the wheel, its about how much the front wheels turn for each degree you turn the steering wheel.

Lets say that the average street car has 900 degrees of rotation from lock-to-lock. How many degrees do you think the front wheels are turned at full lock? I'm sure it varies by car, but let's just use 45 degrees. This means that from lock-to-lock, the front wheels have a 90 degree range.

That means for every 10 degrees of rotation on the steering wheel, you get 1 degree of rotation on the wheels. Turn the steering wheel 90 degrees, the wheels move 9 degrees. Simple enough.

Now let's change to a 200 degree wheel. While the input maximums have changed, the output maximums haven't. Now, if you turn the wheel 9 degrees, you get 4.05 degrees of rotation in the wheels. Turn the wheel 90 degrees, and the wheels turn 40.5 degrees!

Switching from a 200 degree wheel to a 900 degree wheel doesn't give you a greater range of steering like people keep thinking it does. Rather, it gives you 4.5 times the precision.

Think of it this way...the reason why you see street car racers never turn the wheel more than 100 degrees in each direction isn't because that's all the steering wheel can do...its because they don't need more than 10 degrees of rotation from the front wheels.

What it all boils down to is, turning a 200 degree wheel 100 degrees will turn your car FAR sharper than turning a 900 degree wheel the same amount.

EDIT:

Oh, and the 200 degree wheels are actually 180 btw, if anyones counting.

Actually, my MC2 rotates just a little over 135 degrees in each direction, so its probably really a 270 degree wheel. Though I haven't checked what inputs it registers as, so maybe after 100 degrees its already putting in the maximum input despite having the input range set to the max.