Major League Baseball: 2011 Thread

Discussion in 'Sports' started by JohnBM01, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. JohnBM01

    JohnBM01 Premium

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    Craig Biggio WILL be a Hall of Famer eventually. Too bad he didn't get enough love to make it in this time around. He was great back when the Astros were relevant. The good old Killer B' days. Biggio. Berkman. Bagwell. You go from there. Congratulations to all who got in this time around.
     
  2. Prosthetic

    Prosthetic

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    Yeah grats to Larkin for making it in. Both Biggio and Bagwell both deserve to get in. Both were top 10 players of the 90's easily.
     
  3. CMvan46

    CMvan46

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    You give me very little credit which is unfortunate because I know a lot more about a wide variety of sports then you seem to think.

    Up here Bonds it has been reported that Bonds has been confirmed to be taking steroids by the way so that's Vancouver media's fault then.

    I know Baseball is a game of numbers and I know players are always compared to past and present players but it's not how players should be deemed eligible for the hall or not. It's about their numbers in their present generation. It is impossible to tell if Ruth or Howard could hit a fastball better because pitching and pitchers has changed immensely over that period of time. You can't decide today that somebody doesn't make it because a guy with similar numbers 50 years ago didn't get in. That happens a lot and it happens in hockey's hall of fame, the NFL's and MLB's. It's not right and it's not how the selection process should work.

    If it can be proved Ruth used a cork bat over his whole career then yes he should be out... That's cheating. Thing is a cork bat doesn't have long term effects on the body. Using it for a game today doesn't mean your still getting benefits tomorrow. With steroids that does happen. Guys have admitted to long term steroid use and no those guys shouldn't ever have a chance in hell of getting in.

    By the way I would have had a scholarship in baseball likely coming my way if I didn't choose hockey. Hockey was ruined by a long run of concussions inevitably. Don't tell me I don't know the game as most guys I either played with or beat out for spots on teams are all draftees in the majors now. Not saying I would have been drafted as I couldn't ever hit for power but I still regret that decision to this day.
     
  4. Villain

    Villain Premium

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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    ..... I don't get your point. He looks fatter and older now. His cranium appears to have remained the same circumference. In fact he looks way better physically as a rookie.

    BTW - There's zero evidence of Ruth using any drugs to aid his performance. He chewed tobacco and drink liquor and got fat and was still the greatest to ever play the game and he did it against spitballers.

    He's only ever been accused of corking bats and studies have proven the ineffectiveness of those bats. For the record, I haven't seen a shred of proof to indicate that he did, in fact, play with a corked bat.
     
  5. Blitz24

    Blitz24 Premium

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    I have that rookie card for the record.:sly:
     
  6. CMvan46

    CMvan46

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    That should be worth something someday, I'm Canadian and I've only got hockey cards :lol: and I don't believe he has ever failed a test either has he? It is possible to get bigger naturally but it takes a lot more work.
     
  7. Prosthetic

    Prosthetic

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    You don't get credit because you have yet to state any facts about anything. Just hunches and theories that everyone has already heard. Cool you know a lot about a number of different sports. I know a lot about one sport, because I really only care about one sport. I spend a generous amount of time reading about baseball. I love the sport and there is nothing I enjoy doing more.

    I don't suppose you have proof? What kind of steroid was it? Anabolic? Androgenic? Cortico? Further more how did he take it? Injection? Pills? Cream? What about the name of the steroid its self? I would name em but there are so many. But if they had proof you would be able to answer everything I said. Also if they had any proof Bonds likely would serve more then a month at his home.

    They do take into consideration numbers in their present generation. Its not really impossible to tell the difference in generation. There are certain adjustable factors that they take into consideration, factors like the park they play in and how it played that year, and the year they played in. Its more then just equations, there are charts and graphs that look at every possible aspect of the game.

    Pitchers today are better in every way then pitchers 80 years ago. Ruth likely wouldn't have a career OPS of 1.164 in modern day. Even in the 90's you didn't have pitchers throwing curve balls and change-ups in 3-0 counts. They also didn't pay attention to pitch counts or innings pitched. The hitting mechanics were often poor and the boundaries of the rules weren't clear. Players today are much more complicated animals, but a few of the greats (Ted Williams, Willie Mays) had more in common with players today then players of the past. There is also been many rule changes that make things easier for the hitter, such as a smaller mound and no spitball. I can really go on and on. All of these factors are accounted for and not ignored.


    It happens a lot? I know now about other sports but I can't think of many players that didn't get in because of what happened with a player 50 years ago. Once again I say... Show me!

    There are 53 remaining bats that Ruth has been known to use during games. All of them have been corked. 21 of them labeled 30', 31', 32' rest of them don't have markings.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a image of a piece of cork found in one of his bats.

    Steroids don't stay in your system forever... Its just a synthetic boost. Yes there are side effects but they don't make the player any better. Most players don't get caught with the actual substance but estrogen related drugs that reduce the side effects. That's how Manny was caught. So technically he hasn't really been caught with steroids, just a substance commonly used as steroids that MLB has wrongly labeled a performance enhancing drug. While I have little doubt Manny didn't take a substance (Same goes with Bonds and many others). If you want to keep getting stronger you have to keep taking them, you don't take em once go home sit on your ass and watch Looney Toons. You take em and bust your ass for 4-5 hours. With corking you just put it in and you instantly have a much better bat speed and zero side effects.


    I never said you don't know the game or weren't a good player. I'm simply implying you have yet to prove anything other then he said she said.



     
  8. Blitz24

    Blitz24 Premium

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    Oh yes he hasn't failed one test as far as I know.

    Wow, just looked through my 2000 and 2001 cards and I've found some gem rookie cards.

    Miguel Cabrera, Adrian Gonzalez, Adam Wainwright, Jose Reyes, Albert Pujols, Ichiro Suzuki.
     
  9. Schwartz

    Schwartz Premium

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    Hasn't anyone gotten sick of talking about steroids? Its a long pointless conversation that will never mean anything.
     
  10. Villain

    Villain Premium

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    Dude he's like 17 in that picture. :lol:

    C'mon....
     
  11. Prosthetic

    Prosthetic

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    17-18.. Somewhere around there... Then look at him at 20-21.. Huge. Substance abuse is way more common in high school then the major leagues.

    Anyways, I guess CMVan has nothing else to say. So lets move on to some news...

    Seattle traded Pineda and Campos to the Yankees for Montero and Noesi.

    Yankees win this one... they get a stud pitcher for a DH.

    In smaller news the Giants signed Vogie to a 2 years $8.3 million deal with a club option for a third year. Very good deal.
     
  12. Omnis

    Omnis Staff Emeritus

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    You don't have to take steroids to get big in 3 years. Example:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Same dude 3 years later, and that was just from a quick google search. And Pujols was a big 6'3" ball player and not some short shrimpy kid.
     
  13. Villain

    Villain Premium

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    No that's called puberty. Dude you have zero evidence. Stop being cynical towards all the other great players just because you want to have an excuse for Barry Bonds.

    Guess what? Barry Bonds is a jerk and a horrible human being. His wife left him and he let his childhood friend sit in jail for him for years because he didn't want to admit he knowlingly took steroids (he hasn't denied that he took them. He only denies that he knew he was doing it. What a crock.). He's been convicted of Obstruction of Justice, which is a serious federal offense. Stop being a homer and stop downplaying that he's a horrible person. When he poops, it stinks.

    Don't make excuses for a guy like that just because he played for your favorite baseball team, and don't try to disparage the achievements of others just to make them look just as bad as the guy you are a fan of.

    Horrible trade for the Mariners and a steal for the Yankees. Pineda and Kuroda might have hard times pitching in the Bronx but wow, the Yankees are big winners. The AL East is theirs to lose. Bobby Valentine is going to have a looong season.

    I hate to see the Samurai throwing in pinstripes... Damn Yankees!

    Great move by the Gigantes. Fair price, fair years. I wish my club were spending that wisely. :indiff:
     
  14. Omnis

    Omnis Staff Emeritus

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    Do the yankees have a black-gloves uniform code or something? Because I wonder if Pineda will bust out that Mizuno VOP glove. He's the only pitcher I've ever seen use it, lol.

    Anyway, I hope the Marlins can bag Cespedes. Then we could have the All-Caribbean team. CUBA LIBRE!
     
  15. Prosthetic

    Prosthetic

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    Except that Ruth corking is a FACT. I posted proof. I've NEVER posted ANY excuse for Bonds, but I have posted FACTS about what very likely did go down. No one has any evidence whats so ever that Bonds used anything after the rule came into play. So why should he be labeled a cheater?

    What makes you say that? I've met him twice in my life and he was very nice.

    How do you know that's not what happened?


    Except the whole case was a bunch of ********. A waste of tax money. He denied it because no one in the world has any evidence to prove anything. How do you know if Anderson didn't lie to Bonds? You don't, so don't make assumptions based on a medias opinion.



    I defended more then just players of the Giants. I defended Dodgers for :censored: sake. Why should you be mad about me showing the true light of players like Ruth. Ruth openly said to the media saying that the rules of the game don't apply to him. How about stop defending the greats because of a common misconception that they were clean players. They weren't, they were just as dirty. If you don't think Bonds should make it into the HoF then take out Ricky Henderson because he was a jackass. How about Mel Ott, notoriously one of the biggest assholes ever. And he was openly racist.


    Yeah, not sure why Colleti was going after all those aged middle infielders. Maybe he was just having a Sabean moment. :sly:
     
  16. Blitz24

    Blitz24 Premium

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    More trade news:

    Oakland Athletics acquire:
    Seth Smith OF (29)

    Colorado Rockies acquire:
    Josh Outman LHP (27)
    Guillermo Moscoso RHP (29)

    Outman is a player I like. He wears a full set of leg socks.
     
  17. Blitz24

    Blitz24 Premium

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    And for the Tiger fans:
    Victor Martinez has tore his ACL and could be done for the year.
     
  18. R1600Turbo

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    Diamondbacks made their last move for the new season this week by re-signing Joe Saunders for another year. :tup:

    Really looking forward to this season. We've got a stronger team than last year.
     
  19. Prosthetic

    Prosthetic

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    Yeah its going to be fun next year... I'm really pumped to see Posey and Sanchez back.

    The Giants re-signed Pablo to a three year 17.1 million dollar deal, which is a great deal for the Giants. Huff also moved his family to Arizona and took up special conditioning and says hes in the best shape of his life. Not really one to buy into off season stories but I'm hear a lot of good things. The Giants front office also called Huff out pretty brutally and he has responded well.

    Lots of young talent between our two teams.

    Can't wait to see the adjustments Belt, Crawford and Surkamp make. Belt was real hot at the end of the season when getting consistent play, he was on pace to hit 30+ HRs. Schierholtz also made huge changes last year and played great when healthy so I hope he can continue to improve. He was once our biggest power prospect.

    Also would like to see how Pagan and Cabrera respond to coming here. I've heard Cabrera has made a huge attitude change. The outfield D looks solid with three capable CF's playing all three positions.

    I'm also really excited to see how some of hour minor league talent grows. We had a really good draft the last couple years and have a ton of really young talent. We have 4 catchers in our top 10 (Posey and Sandoval were both brought up as catchers) so we may see some trades mid season for any weaknesses. All 4 catchers have lots of offensive potential and good gloves.

    FUuuuu... START DAMMIT. At least I have 3 more weeks of Football, but after that... :(
     
  20. Omnis

    Omnis Staff Emeritus

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    Yu Darvish is a Ranger. 60 million.

    Daaaaaaaammmnnn. Well, at least he's not NL.
     
  21. CMvan46

    CMvan46

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    Didn't they pay some massive fee just to talk to him as well?
     
  22. Patrick

    Patrick Premium

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    I believe 51 million to negotiate.
     
  23. R1600Turbo

    R1600Turbo Premium

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    The money that's tossed around in sports like it's no big deal is mind boggling.
     
  24. Blitz24

    Blitz24 Premium

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    First it was Leo Nunez, now Fausto Carmona has been arrested for using a fake identity. The RHP for the Indians was caught in the Dominican Republic and there's a chance that Roberto Hernandez Heredia (Carmona's actual name) who is 31 (not 28) will not be available for the start of the season or possibly the entire season less than one year after receiving a $7 million extension.
     
  25. Sach

    Sach

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    We are the best fans in baseball, and how can I possibly be fair-weathered when I have been a fan for over 25 years? Don't comment unless you know what you are talking about.
     
  26. Prosthetic

    Prosthetic

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    St. Louis had a long time to work a deal out with him. Angels gave him DOUBLE the years. Were not talking about 1 year $5 million difference, were talking 5 years and $100 million difference.

    The Angels just signed a huge TV deal with Fox, which likely wouldn't of happened if they didn't sign him. The deal is worth more then the deal, so they've already come out in the +. Now think of all the merchandise hes going to sell. The Angels made out like bandits, and St. Louis had no chance to compete.

    Thank god it was the Angels. with better owners it could of been the Dodgers. :sly:

    Its, it looks like our owners are short sighting us with Lincecum. Give the guy the 8 years. The Giants owners ship are already making 40+ million a year off the guy, he pays for him freaking self. Cain too... Panda too... Lock em up!

    Rowand, Sanchez and Huff coming off the books next year, Zito the year after that. Wilson will likely soon to be replaced etc..

    Sach, just be glad he isn't in your division. Do you know how painful it was to watch Kent in a Dodgers uni? While he isn't on the same level as Pujols, hes still a HoF Second basemen that killed us wearing Dodger Blue.

    Its going to be painful to see what Zach Wheeler turns into. Every time I see him pitch I'm going to envision Beltran staring a called third strike late in the game. Hes a choker, thank god we didn't sign him. Sabean has learned from past mistakes that if you screw up a trade, don't try and fix it by overpaying them to come back.
     
  27. Sach

    Sach

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    Well, they offered him a deal that would have made him the highest paid player in baseball over the next 5 (or 7?) years, and he turned it down. In part, I understand what St. Louis was trying to do. They wanted to sign Holliday and keep their pitching/young players for the future, and Albert would have eaten up a ton of payroll on his own. However, I still look at him in a different light because he turned it down because he wanted a 10-year deal, and he could have just gotten a different one in 5 years to extend his time with the club. It's not like lack of money was/is an issue to the guy. I know that he felt betrayed a bit by what the Cardinals ownership did to him, but this is professional sports, you can't expect them to play nicely. In the end, he still left for purely selfish reasons, plain and simple.


    I'm mostly over him, but I still can't believe he did it. He shattered the view that so many fans had of him. @ Villain, unless you have been a Cardinals fan since the days of Ozzie, Terry, Pags, and Willie, please don't try to make a feeble attempt at calling me one of the 'worst' fans.
     
  28. Prosthetic

    Prosthetic

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    Taking a job that pays more isn't being selfish. You may feel that way, but in 5 years I doubt he'll be able to get the same kind of money. He owes nothing to St. Louis or its fans, he helped bring two World Series ring and was the best 1B in baseball during his tenure. If you can understand him feeling betrayed, why is it selfish for him to leave? The Cardinals are better off without him.

    And Villain isn't a Cards fan, hes a Dodger fan. He was just making a remark because Cardinal fans are commonly regarded as the best fans in baseball. The most friendliest, etc... Baseball is a business, nothing wrong with going with the money. Besides, Pujols likely grew up rooting for another team. If I was a player, the only team I'd ever take a pay cut for would be the Giants.
     
  29. Blitz24

    Blitz24 Premium

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    If I were playing, I'd take a pay cut to play for the Mets. Actually, I'd probably be required to:dopey:.
     
  30. Villain

    Villain Premium

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    It's really easy for you to be fair weather. One day you love Pujols, the next day you lose respect for him. Why? Because he won your team multiple championships and MVP awards? Because he made the best move for his family? He moved to the team that is best suited for him and his age?

    Pujols has been classy to the Cardinals and their fans. He gave better production and leadership than just about any player ever. He did it all at grossly under the money he deserved to get paid (by comparison to his peers). After all those great years, he gets the offer of a lifetime and takes it.

    You should be grateful he didn't bust out of town at his first opportunity (like a Boras client would've). How can you turn on someone who did what was best for himself after giving his best (and arguably the best) in the uniform of your favorite team?

    He's the talent of a generation and you should be proud to have been able to root for him.