PS4 Maybe SMS got puddles RIGHT

Discussion in 'Project CARS 2' started by slthree, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. slthree

    slthree

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    Like many of you, I watched most of the Rolex 24 at Daytona. There were a lot of puddles and, several times, when drivers hit them, they spun out, A few of the drivers said they couldn't even see the puddles.

    More than one driver said they were hitting the puddle on the straits and they couldn't believe how it spun them out.

    Another driver, I believe Joey Hand of Ford, said when he stood next to the car on the track the puddle was ankle-deep.

    The only reason I bring this up is because, from time to time, I see people complaining about the puddles. Since I've never raced myself, I didn't know if the puddles were realistic or not.

    But, it looks like SMS really got it right!

    It's no secret how I feel about this game (I'm crazy for it) so you may have to take this post with a grain of salt.

    Thank you SMS for this amazing game!
     
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  2. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy

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    It's not that they got it right or wrong, it's the fact that the AI drive through them with no effect because of the simple tyres model.

    Which makes racing them in heavy wet weather almost impossible on about 50% of tracks (car type pending).

    However there are some cars that don't even require you to pit for wets even though wets are available, (I know some cars don't use them) but sometimes there is simply no difference in slick or wet tyre's on some cars.

    The whole game is unbalanced, from ai skill to weather, car group's & ai grip on certain corners, also in the snow the AI are crap even at 120 skill level.

    This is 1 of the parts that needed polishing along with online & overall graphics balancing, (some tracks look outstanding but others look like poop).

    However I don't race online so I just work around the other bits & have fun anyway, which I'll continue to do until something better comes along, hopefully GTR3 but who knows.

    But I won't be buying PC3 or 4 out of principle seeing as they don't give a toss (which is a shame because it is a damn fine game otherwise) & good luck to any of you that buys that madbox, let's wait & see how SMS handle cyber attacks or country wide outages or keeping your bank details secure or refunding you for loss.

    At least Sony, MS & Nintendo have the money/infrastructure to back all this up when things go wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
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  3. slthree

    slthree

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    Grumpy, now that you mention it, I can't believe I never noticed that.

    I spin out a lot in the rain until I finally decide to take a new line. I guess I'm so careful and so focused on what I'm doing I don't give much attention to the AI

    But, looking back,I've never seen the AI spin out or have an accident because of the puddles. The only thing I noticed is that they are slower, which for me, as a bad driver, I'm grateful for!

    It looks I will have to amend my title and say they got it "half right".
     
  4. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy

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    No need for that, they have done well with the weather (even if a little crazy at times) & live track is absolutely brilliant (90% of the time) it's just the AI side of it.

    There's alot about this game I'll still defend until I'm blue in the face, I'm just disappointed (as a new fan) that it's been kicked to the curb so soon.

    There is a slight issue with accelerated weather though, have a read of my findings during this test I did.
    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/posts/12567398/
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
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  5. Sick Cylinder

    Sick Cylinder

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    I agree 100% - with it likely being a very long wait until the next title it seems short sighted to stop the support when they did. I thought SMS could continue to build the player base through updates and DLC to increase uptake of their next game.

    I don't understand why there has not been a complete edition. If I was the Big Boss I would have released a complete edition in time for Christmas 2018 and a second season pass for 2019 culminating in an "Ultimate Edition" with all the DLC from both season passes in time for Christmas 2019.

    I still encounter people via this forum or my race series who have only just picked up the game (normally after starting with GTS) - continuing the updates and DLC would have continued interest in the game and surely helped SMS with future sales.

    Re the puddles - as Grumpy says the AI use a simplified tyre model, but I would add that puddles on track in real life can be very bad, but as I do not have cat like reflexes and am not called Moss, Stewart or Senna I struggle with them - sometimes slightly less realism is better!
     
  6. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy

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    Actually, I was meaning to test another thing regarding puddles which I heard about during the Daytona 24hrs regarding curtain cars dealing with rain/puddles better because they were running higher ride heights. I'm aware aquaplaning is more to do with the tyres not being able to disperse water efficiently. But how much truth was in what the commentators said? I guess with flat bottoms if a car is to low then it'll make things worse & lift the car up so it just becomes a boat no?

    At the moment the only workaround I try in PC2 is to hold steady on the throttle at low revs or try to coast.
     
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  7. pyrates

    pyrates Premium

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    The problem with puddles in PC2 is that they tend to form to quickly even light rain. And that is with non accelerated weather. Light rain for more than 30 mins and you have really large puddles.
     
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  8. Sentry87

    Sentry87

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    Could time acceleration have something to do with that instead of weather acceleration? Not sure how it works. A.i. in wet weather seems to be a trade off to me. Yes they don't aqua plane as much as you, but their pace on certain tracks is slower in rain so it almost cancels out.
     
  9. David Wright

    David Wright

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    This isn't true. The AI are affected - they partially lift through puddles (probably why they are sometimes slow in the rain). Its not really the simpler tyre model that is the main issue. If they spin out on puddles every lap you won't get a good race either. Ideally the AI should be programmed to avoid the puddles where possible as human players do. Having worked a little bit with AI in racing sims, this isn't easy to do.
     
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  10. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy

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    Admittedly they don't drive 100% in the rain (80% at best) but if you get a puddle on the inside line of a corner, they'll go through it without any issues, whereas the player has to go high/wide to avoid it because no amount of lifting is getting you away from spinning into the wall.

    On a straight your theory might be true, but Bannockbrae's main straight is awkward to navigate with puddles & at dubai autodrome on the back straight before the hairpin, good luck with that river.

    It's the inconsistency of it all, that's all, sometimes you have to do a few trial runs to see how a certain combination will play out before you settle down for a nice long balanced but challenging race.
     
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  11. foxymop

    foxymop

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    Just did Silverstone offline raining in campaign...

    I lost control a few times wile the ai were in their rails, but manage to finish 2th...

    But the worste... Lol I ended up in last place. Lol

    Just save the replay and from 2° as soon as I cross the finish line I got to last place in the grid with 1:53 minutes from the first. Lol


    And about second year reason, etc, with that ceo, you will never have a good product. By his speech, he couldn't care less of what comes out of his studio.

    We all know PC3, if comes out, it won't be a good game.

    One thing is when you make mistakes and you're willing to fix them, another is when you do mistakes and you don't care.

    Edit: forgot to say... the AI is awful. This is a great driving game and a awful racing game.

    Edit 2: A guy complained about the penalty system in the game in Project Cars forum. I cordially told him they would not fix the game any more and that he could find better sims regarding that point he made.

    Got banned from the forum. XD

    The most fun of project cars is not driving or racing. It's trolling that toxic community. Lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  12. Sentry87

    Sentry87

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    Can you please not push your agenda and derail the conversation in every single thread you post in? The fact you label yourself a troll is an obvious red flag. Although I do agree with some of what you say sometimes, it's a major bore listening to you. You remind me of a forum member once here that did the same thing and eventually got banned from these forums,
     
  13. pyrates

    pyrates Premium

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    It seems the only toxic one are you, buddy. Don't like to play the game? Let it go. Don't buy PC3. Get a life.
     
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  14. Bealdor

    Bealdor

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    You weren't banned for this post but for the other one where you were disrespectful towards another forum member (again).
    Just like the last time you were banned...

    But yeah, apparently it's always the community that's toxic and it's never your fault...
    /s
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
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  15. foxymop

    foxymop

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    Most of us know that forum so I don't even need to say anything about it.

    Got a lot of bans there and none in here. Thats says it all.

    And after my "edit2" in here my ban got permanent. Lol. Some one got mad.

    And this is not the topic for this.
     
  16. jake2013guy

    jake2013guy

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    Ah. You're one of those. How fun.

    Then don't buy it or play PCARS2. Get something else. Many of us disagree.

    What? The forum where the mods are decent guys and are only banning people who break the rules? I've been there for a while and they're pretty good guys. They enjoy the game which is why they're there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  17. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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    There's more wrong over in the SMS forum than just moderation policy, but that has no bearing on how I enjoy PCARS2. There are also better-received racing games with worse AI. The AI may be inconsistent and imbalanced between different tracks, classes, and career championships, but it's still good AI. They just need better calibration of their pace.
     
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  18. redi

    redi

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    As soon as you start insulting members or forum owners here on GTP, I'm pretty sure you'll be removed just as quickly.
     
  19. MarcoM

    MarcoM

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    I used to put the AI aggressiveness on the same number as their skill. That is not a good idea. Putting the aggressiveness to 8 or something prevents the shunts from behind.

    I actually quite enjoy PC2 a lot this way.
     
  20. foxymop

    foxymop

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    Yes. So do you.


    At least that's how it should work. The same rules for all.


    And you're one of those "other ones" too. How cute. ^^


    That's what I'm also doing. But it I think it depends on the track also. I tested even with zero and it still happen if the AI clogs if front of you in some tracks and you get a little bit behind the braking zone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  21. MarcoM

    MarcoM

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    Clogging up happens in real racing too. Especially with 32 cars on track. It's the shunting from behind at the start that really annoys me.
     
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  22. Mr Grumpy

    Mr Grumpy

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    I start at the back of the grid so I don't get punted, taking it easy at 1st then pick off a few cars over the opening lap.

    Truth be told I'm spending a lot of time at the back of the field, just can't drive for **** atm, bad week.
     
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  23. jake2013guy

    jake2013guy

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    They do tend to shunt around a bit. It can get frustrating when it's a GTE and you're a P2. I'd accept it more in the Clios or Touring Cars which is the fun part for SMS.

    What? The people who enjoy the game and like the content delivered? I'll happily stay in that group. I don't go into other parts of the forum bashing their game.

    He didn't insult anyone.
     
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  24. foxymop

    foxymop

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    Yes yes I was talking about the shunting from behind when there's blogging ahead.
    Some people say that the AI does that cause you brake to early and in the case of clogging, you can't do much.

    This is getting annoying..

    You got offended cause I reply the same way you start your conversation with me? That's the problem on the forums.

    You don't go into other parts of the forum bashing the game but you go like a vigilante on people who criticize the game with "funny" lines and no arguments.

    That might even be worst.


    You will never find anything from me saying that the handling is bad, that the graphics are bad, or the cars, or the tracks, the setups, etc.

    If the game has problems, I'm not scared to hurt people feelings by saying it.
    If you get offended by a critic of a game you like, that's your problem. It's not insulting.
    Especially now the we know that after a year, the game will not receive any fix.

    I may repeat my self on critics or talk too much.
    That's insulting? No.

    Like all the people that criticize the bad parts of the game since the beginning and that you people hate so much, If i didn't like the game, I wouldn't have bought PC1 and PC2 with the season pass after the purchase of the PC2.

    If you already know my speech about the problems of the game for some time, maybe it's because I play the game for some time. And if I play the game, it's because I like the game.
    Ta daaaa!

    But that does not mean I will not be a pain in the butt about the problems of the game and the type of business SMS has!


    And having to explain all this is really awkward, so I'll stick to the topic from now on and ignore the rest.

    Flash news!

    Neither did I!

    Only in forums where a critic is an insult.

    And believe me, I was never has critic of the game in their forum has I'm in this one. Not even close.

    Like I said this is getting awkward.
    Over and out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  25. yas

    yas

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    Well that is not going to happen, is it? This is largely why it is not being received so well.

    Anyway I was impressed by the way puddles affect handling, was pretty close to how I've felt aqua planning in real life (happily no spinning :)) as said, its the inconsistency thay is bad - wheater changes for me,, but many times not for the AI - track dries out, they remain slow. Or it starts raining - AI's tempo not affected while I struggle to remain stable.
    I love driving in this game, but racing in it can be horrible because of such issues.
     
  26. jake2013guy

    jake2013guy

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    It's nice to have a long post dedicated to me. It makes me feel special. ;)

    Just to clarify, I never said you did. I meant my reply to be taken at face value. No hidden message. Just to clear that confusion up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
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  27. Mr Tree

    Mr Tree

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    I seem to be less tolerant then other because you clearly show you have no issue insulting people or businesses on a forum.

    The 'what kind of business SMS is' is a clear implication that they scam people or less rude that they ask more for the games then they're worth in general. Both these ideas would be quite insulting when you'd be talking about my work ;)

    All the rest I read in your post was ok imo, critique and insults are only separated by a very fine line ;)
     
  28. foxymop

    foxymop

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    Again, I didn't insult people. And if you are a moderator, maybe if you didn't allow the worshippers of the game and SMS insult people first and without consequences, maybe, "insults" from the "infidels" wouldn't happen.
    Just an idea.

    If you take implications like that, then something is very wrong in the communications level.
    But that explains a lot about how things run in that forum.
     
  29. jake2013guy

    jake2013guy

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    I thought you were done?
     
  30. pyrates

    pyrates Premium

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    If everywhere you go it smells like sh**, maybe it's time to check your own shoes.

    Anyway, back to topic. So yesterday I had a 20 lap race in Imola and we had heavy rain in the second half. Time and weather progression were not accelerated and it was completely undrivable after only 5 laps of rain.
    A lake formed at Aque Minerali that was so huge you couldn't even get around it going completely off track to the left. No way to avoid it and with a low GT3 car there is no way going through without spinning - no matter the speed. Puddles just after the apexes of Rivazza and the exit of Tamburello and Villenueve. Even quite heavy aquaplaning in the bend just after the start finish line.
    So the track went from dry to completely undrivable within 5 laps. Red flag conditions after about 3 laps. So while the behavior on the puddles is ok, they form way way too quickly.