Mazda 6! Straight-six, that is...

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Eunos_Cosmo
It was a different concept within the greater "RX" ethos, in a way that the RX-2, RX-3, RX-4, RX-5, and RX-6 were all different concepts. The RX-7 went 3 generations because it was the same concept: Front mid engine, rear drive, 2 seat [mostly] 2 door coupe.
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I suppose, though as a casual observer, I didn't see it as being vastly different* from the 7 line.

*Apart from the two-and-two-half-door configuration that struck me as rather gimmicky.
 
TexRex
I suppose, though as a casual observer, I didn't see it as being vastly different* from the 7 line.

*Apart from the two-and-two-half-door configuration that struck me as rather gimmicky.
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I suppose functionally it served as a replacement for the RX-7, but it was fairly different in several other ways. New engine design, return to natural aspiration, four(-ish) doors, four proper seats, chassis loosely based on that of the NC MX-5.
 
Populuxe Cowboy
Just don't put RX in its name and we'll be fine.
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As much as i agree, MX-7 does not sound overly right to me. R7 maybe.. Ri7 ..... R6 since it'll have an i6 but then what if a I4 engine choice.

how about Mxsi7 lol sounds like a cpu.

Eunos_Cosmo
Your obsessive anti-Toyota posts in largely unrelated topics are a little weird. Like, if this was a domestic situation, you would be texting Toyota at 3am with "I'm NOT thinking about you right now! Loser!". Maybe give it a rest?
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Its just hilarious i don't know hypocracy or irony of Toyota (wealthiest) being defended by fanboys that it's too expensive to do what near every car maker including little poor mazda is doing themselves.
 
Supaboost
As much as i agree, MX-7 does not sound overly right to me. R7 maybe.. Ri7 ..... R6 since it'll have an i6 but then what if a I4 engine choice.

how about Mxsi7 lol sounds like a cpu.



Its just hilarious i don't know hypocracy or irony of Toyota (wealthiest) being defended by fanboys that it's too expensive to do what near every car maker including little poor mazda is doing themselves.
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A crazy idea, since they were apparently testing an RX-8, could they be trying to make a similar 2+2 door sports car?

It makes sense to me. Take the RX-8, replace the quirky rotary with, say, an I6 and an I4, and you have a fantastic handling (not as good as the 8 but come on, it's a Mazda), practical sports car. They'd probably have a manual from the get-go, which would help sell it among enthusiasts.

And if they bring back the rotary engine, slap it in there and make it the best thing ever since the RX-8.
 
Was getting exponientially excited until "range-extender". Almost felt like a kick in the nuts to be honest. Oh well, the next 6 will be the best sedan on the market as long as they keep it pretty. Not that I doubt Mazda in that regard.
 
An RX with a rotary-REX (REX-7!) would actually be badass! I'd prefer it to be of the parallel type with a manual gearbox, but I don't think that'll happen.
 
*rubs hands for*
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My family's currently leasing a base model CX-5. Its been very nice so far. I really hope they continue making lower trim levels of it at an affordable price
 
Makes me wonder if Toyota is investing in ICE development at all. Doesn't seem like they have anything in development and seem to be outsourcing powertrains and platforms entirely wherever possible.

The weird thing is that they don't seem to be really advancing BEV tech either. Makes me wonder...what are they spending their money on?
 
Eunos_Cosmo
Makes me wonder if Toyota is investing in ICE development at all. Doesn't seem like they have anything in development and seem to be outsourcing powertrains and platforms entirely wherever possible.

The weird thing is that they don't seem to be really advancing BEV tech either. Makes me wonder...what are they spending their money on?
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Hydrogen. They've been ramping up development of FCVs the last few months, if not the last few years really. They're certainly putting most of their eggs in the FCV basket.

I'm surprised Mazda hasn't done any hydrogen development like at all since the hydrogen powered RX-8. HICE really was a dead end I guess.
 
Disco_Volante
Hydrogen. They've been ramping up development of FCVs the last few months, if not the last few years really. They're certainly putting most of their eggs in the FCV basket.
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Toyota must think they've got that market on lock or that they've gotten the jump on everybody.

What they don't realize is the hydrogen market doesn't exist because it's an idiotic solution. Mazda hasn't done any hydrogen development because after they wasted money on that RX-8 they were like "wow this is a dumb idea that will never catch on" and gave up. Toyota is just being stubborn and wasting money for no reason. It's inexplicable to me. They're virtually the only car company on the planet who thinks they've found something spectacular.
 
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Kind of weird about the CX-3 but then again I thought the introduction of the CX-30 was odd and would cannibalize sales. I guarantee that happened, especially since the base model is only $2,000 more. Plus the CX-3 is the previous-generation design philosophy. Americans just don't buy small cars.

As for the 6, I think it's been clear for a while that it's going to be replaced by a more premium rear-drive car with that new inline-6. I think Mazda will continue its overall upward trajectory into the semi-premium category. Their volume remains low but premium profit margins are higher on lower volumes.
 
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Although as car enthusiasts we may be appreciative of it, but I think Mazda's strategy of "premium, but still not entry-level luxury" is a pretty terrible strategy in terms of long-term profits. The truth is, buyers don't perceive Mazda as "higher up" than Honda or Toyota, let alone making cars that are more reliable and better quality. When I was car shopping a year and a half ago, I looked at the new 4th-gen Mazda3, and it only took a few packages and options here and there for the price to be nearly $30k. That's simply more than most are willing to spend on a non-luxury compact car. It honestly shouldn't be surprising that Mazda sales have declined pretty sharply over the last 5-6 years.
 
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GranTurNismo
Although as car enthusiasts we may be appreciative of it, but I think Mazda's strategy of "premium, but still not entry-level luxury" is a pretty terrible strategy in terms of long-term profits. The truth is, buyers don't perceive Mazda as "higher up" than Honda or Toyota, let alone making cars that are more reliable and better quality. When I was car shopping a year and a half ago, I looked at the new 4th-gen Mazda3, and it only took a few packages and options here and there for the price to be nearly $30k. That's simply more than most are willing to spend on a non-luxury compact car. It honestly shouldn't be surprising that Mazda sales have declined pretty sharply over the last 5-6 years.
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I think you're slightly missing the point of what Mazda is trying to do - the end goal is not to be "premium but still not entry level luxury" the point is to, eventually, just be premium. They are attempting to establish themselves as a premium brand through gradual evolution. It was never going to happen overnight without establishing a subsidiary brand, but the purpose is to get to the point where they are perceived as higher up than Honda or Toyota. I have doubts as to whether they'll ever get there, but long term profits and the survival of the company is the entire focus. For Mazda I'd say this is pretty existential - either their move to premium works or the company will cease to exist. The margins on stuff like the Mazda3 just aren't there anymore. The race at the bottom is not sustainable for such a small company...they will be crushed in those segments as regulation becomes more onerous and the deep-pocketed companies (Toyota, Honda, Hyundai) take more and more market share. Basically, Mazda will not survive if they only make Rav4 and Corolla competitors because Toyota can offset those tiny margins by selling 10x as many units as Mazda can. Nissan has tried the opposite approach of racing to the bottom and trying to boost volume and I would describe that as a spectacular failure for the brand.

Volvo is probably the closest analogue to the trajectory Mazda is trying to get on. In 1985 very few people would have described Volvo as premium. In 1995 you could say they incorporate some premium ideas. By 2005 they were well on their way. In 2021 Volvo is indisputably a premium brand, particularly with the Polestar subsidiary. Like Volvo, Mazda will likely always be a niche brand, but if they can put themselves in a position where they at least have some margin, they may survive. I'd argue that these new I6 RWD platform cars are Mazda's Hail Mary...if they are not successful, I'd rate Mazda's chances of surviving as an independent company at almost zero. I'd also bet that this is well-acknowledged at Mazda's corporate office.
 
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CX-3 was DOA once the CX-30 arrived. The names being too close to each other did no favors. It's a shame though as the CX-3 is the smallest CUV that takes regular fuel AND has AWD.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
I think you're slightly missing the point of what Mazda is trying to do - the end goal is not to be "premium but still not entry level luxury" the point is to, eventually, just be premium. They are attempting to establish themselves as a premium brand through gradual evolution. It was never going to happen overnight without establishing a subsidiary brand, but the purpose is to get to the point where they are perceived as higher up than Honda or Toyota. I have doubts as to whether they'll ever get there, but long term profits and the survival of the company is the entire focus. For Mazda I'd say this is pretty existential - either their move to premium works or the company will cease to exist. The margins on stuff like the Mazda3 just aren't there anymore. The race at the bottom is not sustainable for such a small company...they will be crushed in those segments as regulation becomes more onerous and the deep-pocketed companies (Toyota, Honda, Hyundai) take more and more market share. Basically, Mazda will not survive if they only make Rav4 and Corolla competitors because Toyota can offset those tiny margins by selling 10x as many units as Mazda can. Nissan has tried the opposite approach of racing to the bottom and trying to boost volume and I would describe that as a spectacular failure for the brand.

Volvo is probably the closest analogue to the trajectory Mazda is trying to get on. In 1985 very few people would have described Volvo as premium. In 1995 you could say they incorporate some premium ideas. By 2005 they were well on their way. In 2021 Volvo is indisputably a premium brand, particularly with the Polestar subsidiary. Like Volvo, Mazda will likely always be a niche brand, but if they can put themselves in a position where they at least have some margin, they may survive. I'd argue that these new I6 RWD platform cars are Mazda's Hail Mary...if they are not successful, I'd rate Mazda's chances of surviving as an independent company at almost zero. I'd also bet that this is well-acknowledged at Mazda's corporate office.
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You do bring up some good points. It seems as if Mazda producing more expensive cars and selling less of them is a trade-off they are willing to accept. Though I do wonder how successful of an entry-level luxury car brand they'll be when the time comes. The Japanese luxury car market isn't in the greatest shape in the US market; Lexus has stagnated for the last 5-6 years, Acura has still been trying to find their direction after decades, and it is honestly enigmatic to me that Infiniti hasn't pulled the plug at this point. Mazda has never a been particularly high-seller in the US, and it's only decent selling car on the lineup is the CX-5. As aforementioned, most of its other products have grown outdated, and the Mazda3 is simply too expensive to meaningfully compete with the Civic/Corolla/Elantra.

I also do wonder about the future of the new affordable car market in the United States. It's not secret that new cars have grown more and more expensive in recent years (adjusting for inflation, of course), and many brands have pulled out of the subcompact and compact car market, as heightened safety and emissions regulations hinder these cars from being profitable. The ones that still do exist, like the Civic, Corolla, and Elantra, are all above $20,000 and can easily be optioned into the mid-to-high 20k range. Even the subcompact Versa and Accent have moved slightly upmarket, now being at the higher end of the $10k price range. The Mitsubishi Mirage, as crappy as it is, may be the only true "cheap new car" left. And it's obvious that subcompact and compact CUVs cost thousands more than their sedan and hatchback counterparts. Even the existing mid-range and luxury car and SUVs/CUVs are also moving upmarket to a certain extent. I guess the question is, will buying a new car eventually become financially unviable for moderate income earners?
 
Eunos_Cosmo
Volvo is probably the closest analogue to the trajectory Mazda is trying to get on. In 1985 very few people would have described Volvo as premium. In 1995 you could say they incorporate some premium ideas. By 2005 they were well on their way. In 2021 Volvo is indisputably a premium brand, particularly with the Polestar subsidiary. Like Volvo, Mazda will likely always be a niche brand, but if they can put themselves in a position where they at least have some margin, they may survive. I'd argue that these new I6 RWD platform cars are Mazda's Hail Mary...if they are not successful, I'd rate Mazda's chances of surviving as an independent company at almost zero. I'd also bet that this is well-acknowledged at Mazda's corporate office.
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I was just going to say that Mazda could aim themselves as being Japan's Volvo. They've always had that outsider, niche/cult way of doing their own thing, to an extent, and that makes it easier for them to position themselves, as Volvo has managed in recent years, as an alternative semi-luxury lifestyle brand. Outside of enthusiast circles, the general public has no set-in-stone expectations of what Mazda is or where they fit in with other manufacturers. This is a tactic that could easily fall flat on its face, but i don't see them having much alternative.

Subaru is the other Japanese manufacturer that could have done this. They have the reliability, but they always seem to be behind the curve when it comes to quality interiors, and that's a bit important when you're trying to go quasi-luxury.
 

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