Mazda sticks with rotary power

  • Thread starter Pebb
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^^ That. I'm amazed that groups like that expect to be taken seriously. Maybe we'll find out that this company is a bunch of middle schoolers with access to Photoshop.

Take one look at their website.
 
Great, another company that claims to have a car that will do 0-60 in one second. I've had my laugh for the day I think. :lol:

~Turtle
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Toronado
:lol:

That's a pretty good one. A car announcement that consists of nothing more than a badly Photoshopped picture of a different, well-known car and some pie in the sky specifications?

...

Oh wait. They're serious?

:lol::lol::lol:
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They showed the car and everything
 
mazdaman
They showed the car and everything
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If by showed, you mean promised to display the car at Top Marquees Monaco but cancelling instead and having nothing but a badly rendered photoshop of a Ferrari 599 in their press release... sure.

Vaporware doesn't get any more vaporous than that.
 
mazdaman
They showed the car and everything
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:dunce: You are aware that the image on their website is a photoshopped 599 right? The only other things they have to show are two poor CAD models.

This car isn't even vaporware. It's just not anything-ware. It's the deluded fantasy of a child put through the resources of a marketing amateur.
 
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mazdaman
http://www.worldcarfans.com/110100528830/rotary-super-cars-unveils-the-raptor-gt
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Worldcarfans is not a reputable source for automotive information, period. It's where one goes to back up some insane claim that every print magazine and even a few half-decent auto websites won't even give a second thought to, except in their April Fool's column.

Until any car shows up and runs, it might as well be made by Hot Wheels, no matter what badge it wears.

And yes, I own a Mazda.
 
Two very reputable companies are making rotary super car's.

Will post pics of the engine and car it was shown at the pri show.


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The glass-house and roof from that car looks completely stolen from the Long-tail F1 GTR/GT.
 
That engine is floating in mid-air, among lighting issues. Also, you can't hire a model to show off a non-existent car.
 
Mazda 16X rotary engine is two years away

We now have enthusiastic confirmation that this next-gen rotary engine is really and truly going forward. It is still referred to as 16X and has several priorities. First is to lower fuel consumption compared to the RX-8's engine, while still making gains in terms of performance. The second is to reduce the burning of oil that was happening at the highest revs. And the third and final priority, and perhaps most key for enthusiasts, is to give the powertrain a big torque upgrade.

What we were told by a Mazda USA insider is that the first application of the new 16X engine will be happening in two years' time in an as yet undisclosed new model. Oh, the mind races to our eternal Mazda wish list... How to solve the failings of the Renesis engine that preceded all of this? "The key to both higher torque and better fuel consumption," said the insider, "is creating a longer stroke engine." But we're talking a rotary engine with the fat-triangle rotor and toroidal cam, so how does one determine the way to call this long-stroke or not? "By the path of travel within the combustion space dictated by the engineers," says Mr. Insider.

What this means for the relative engine capacity and blueprint of the 16X engine is yet to be shown. Longer stroke engines can create greater torque and do so at lower revs. This, it is thought, is what will drastically improve fuel efficiency, emissions, and oil abuse in the 16X.
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Auto Blog
 
It'll be interesting to see how this develops over the next few years; as much as I love the Renesis engine (the sound alone is addictive) it certainly has it's shortcomings and it gulps down fuel at an insane rate. I've not found the burning of oil to be such an issue though, as long as you check it regularly (which you should anyway with any sports car) it'll go for miles before it needs topping up.
 
250hp @ 6,500rpm & 200lbs*ft torque @ 5,000rpm with a 7,500rpm redline in a 2600lb two seat, rear wheel drive, stylish coupe named RX-something. Please, Mazda, please.

I'm not sure this is immediately apparent, but the 16x has always been the 'long stroke' replacement for the 13b. I seem to recall that it is effectively a 12a engine scaled up, so the rotors are thinner compared to their 'height' compared to the rather fatty 13b 'oversquare' rotors.

Example: 12a (left) vs 13b (right) rotors
3%20dif%20rotors.jpg


I think the 16x will retain the proportions of the 12a rotors, but they will be just scaled up in every dimension.

I'll be out of grad school in two years.....:)
 
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Eunos_Cosmo
250hp @ 6,500rpm & 200lbs*ft torque @ 5,000rpm with a 7,500rpm redline in a 2600lb
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Terrible idea. My FC has a better power-to-torque ratio than, has a lower torque peak, and higher redline. The T2 has an even broader torque band a lot more of it to boot.

The Renesis is basically the worst rotary engine Mazda has made in a long time. It revs too high, its powerband is too narrow, there's not enough torque. My engine has better driving characteristics despite being quite a bit less powerful - my torque is only slightly less than a Renesis, but peaks lower and has a broader band. And it's not even turbocharged.

I think if the 16X is going to be successful in the market and compete with modern engines it needs to have a broad torque band with a low peak. It should probably be turbo for torque and efficiency purposes. The problem with that is that the turbos will wear quickly as they always do on rotaries because of the unusually high exhaust temps. If they can keep the turbo cool then I say that's the best route to meet modern standards and avoid a woefully underpowered sports car.
 
Yeah, the RENESIS is like the rotary equivalent of a mega-VTEC screamer. By trying to provide turbo-grade power with natural aspiration, they created the "rotaries are gutless" myth that is now retroactively applied to the whole 13B line. Like you said, Keef, even though the old naturally aspirated engines produce similar torque to the RENESIS, they're not so peaky.

I presume Mazda is still shying away from turbocharging?
 
Wolfe
Yeah, the RENESIS is like the rotary equivalent of a mega-VTEC screamer. By trying to provide turbo-grade power with natural aspiration, they created the "rotaries are gutless" myth that is now retroactively applied to the whole 13B line. Like you said, Keef, even though the old naturally aspirated engines produce similar torque to the RENESIS, they're not so peaky.

I presume Mazda is still shying away from turbocharging?
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Probably. I think they see it as cheating - clearly they don't really need it to be efficient. The use of of a turbo leaves the opportunity to spend less development on the engine itself. I think Mazda is trying to maximize everything step by step.
 
Well, the "spend a long time making really really good NA engines first, then introduce turbocharging" strategy worked for BMW. :P

It could be related to the well known "boost in, apex seals out" diagram, but I imagine it has more to do with fuel consumption, maybe.
 
Eric.
Where do you buy hydrogen fuel these days? Wasn't hydrogen supposed to be the fuel source for charging a battery and driving the vehicle with electric motors?
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You can get it in LA, California. Yes it was.
 
That was more than a concept car, a fully functional concept car. I'm sure Mazda will build another, still sad though.

Edit: I just learned that this happened in 2008 and is just now surfacing. :odd:
 
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