McDonald's bans tracksuits

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Did you actually bother to read that before you sent it?

Proving discrimination

The regulations make it easier for claimants to bring successful discrimination claims by reversing the burden of proof.

The claimant must establish facts which would, in the absence of an adequate explanation from the respondent, lead to a conclusion that they had been discriminated against. It is then for the respondent to show a non-discriminatory reason for its actions.
They must have proof first. They cannot just claim discrimination without proof. It is right there in the link you provided.

I'm beginning to believe you aren't directly "quoting" any laws because you are actually just giving your loose interpretation, like saying it explicitly says no proof is required, when it explicitly says the opposite.

But hey, maybe I am misinterpreting it. If that is the case and your laws allow for guilt to be assigned by a third party without proof then it is clear that any country this law applies to can give up on ever saying they have freedom.

It would not be a manipulation or extortion in my example because i said if it was a truthful and honest claim based on philosophical belief, if someone lied about that then they could be in big trouble, just like falsely claiming rape.
There is so much room for abuse in this kind of system it borders on stupid. Your very example would be abuse of the system.

Perhaps you miss the point that the business should just let the person be served and not have a policy that can discriminate in the first place (even if it is for a dress code). If they cant do that they should not be in a business that provides a service to the public.
I know you claim that you are just being philosophical, but as we are in the opinions thread I am asking you for your opinion on this. My opinion is that what you said above goes against everything I believe about freedom as it suggest that property rights of a business owner are subject to the whims of the public. Even if it kills his business he should have the right to discriminate. If his food is so good that people will pay $50 for a baked potato and wear a $1,000 suit just to get in then the man has earned the right to be picky about who he lets in as clearly his services are in huge demand.

Businesses are not allowed to pick and choose who they serve. Why should they, why is it in the public interest for them to be selective.
Why does business have to be in the public interest? It is in teh profit interest last I checked, or you are a failing business as a pure public interest would offer free services.

It is not justifiable. And if they serve the public they have chosen to put themselves under public scrutiny they cant do as they please.
And the way the market works will allow the public scrutiny to decide if the service he provides are worth the restrictions (price, dress code, etc) he chooses to put in place. Business transactions are 100% voluntary by both parties. The business owner offers a good or service and gives you the cost. You can tell him what cost you are willing to pay. If you both cannot agree the transaction does not happen. If he cannot find enough customers to agree to his terms then he fails as a business. No public interest is involved...because it is business, not charity.

Requiring people entering a shop to wear shoes for example is legitimate if it relates to hygiene or health and safety.
Or if one person doing it causes you to lose other customers who are grossed out. Or if it grosses you out. It is your property.
 
Did you actually bother to read that before you sent it?


They must have proof first. They cannot just claim discrimination without proof. It is right there in the link you provided.

I'm beginning to believe you aren't directly "quoting" any laws because you are actually just giving your loose interpretation, like saying it explicitly says no proof is required, when it explicitly says the opposite.
Maybe you didn't read my posts properly as I certainly said the quote from the article that says the facts must be established, that is not proof of discrimination, you don't need proof. You haven't read my posts. You haven't read the link properly either or the passage you quoted. Or maybe we just disagree over the interpretation. It's very clear to me though and I'm not sure how you can see it differently.

No public interest is involved...because it is business, not charity.
The public interest is there to uphold the law of discrimination against members of the public, who have rights in relation to business transactions or refusal of transactions. Businesses must obey the law, or do you disagree and that they should break the law if it suits them?
 
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The public interest is there to uphold the law of discrimination against members of the public, who have rights in relation to business transactions or refusal of transactions. Businesses must obey the law, or do you disagree and that they should break the law if it suits them?

What about the rights of McDonald's and it's related parties? Do they not have rights as well?

Without question, they have a right to refuse service and their interests are not to the public but to McDonald's Corporation and it's shareholders. They can serve whomever they choose to serve. The principal goal of owning and operating a business is to make money. It is a detriment to McDonald's to refuse service. If they choose to refuse business, it is their right to.
 
The public interest is there to uphold the law of discrimination against members of the public, who have rights in relation to business transactions or refusal of transactions. Businesses must obey the law, or do you disagree and that they should break the law if it suits them?

As mentioned above, they have a right to refuse entry so as long as the refusal is not based on the persons ethnicity or gender.

If on the other hand we were dealing with a bank or some other place where the clients themselves were being refused entry because of a dress code, then that is totally unacceptable.
 
If on the other hand we were dealing with a bank or some other place where the clients themselves were being refused entry because of a dress code, then that is totally unacceptable.

I don't understand the difference. Please explain.
 
Maybe you didn't read my posts properly as I certainly said the quote from the article that says the facts must be established, that is not proof of discrimination, you don't need proof.
Really? You're making a legal argument based on semantics?

Proof
Definitions of proof on the Web:

* any factual evidence that helps to establish the truth of something

I fail to see how that is any different from:
The claimant must establish facts which would, in the absence of an adequate explanation from the respondent, lead to a conclusion that they had been discriminated against.
Perhaps you can explain it for me, as I consider needing facts to prove something the same as needing to have proof.

Better yet, what do you call proof if it isn't facts establishing the claim?

The public interest is there to uphold the law of discrimination against members of the public, who have rights in relation to business transactions or refusal of transactions. Businesses must obey the law, or do you disagree and that they should break the law if it suits them?
I've already said I disagree with those laws and hold the property rights above any other in this case. Whether the business owner wishes to break the law in a form of protest or not is up to them.

But if it is in the better interest of the business to have dress codes as part of their business model is in presenting a certain image then they should do that, damn the beliefs of anyone. What's the point of an upper class restaurant if everyone can look like bums?
 
As mentioned above, they have a right to refuse entry so as long as the refusal is not based on the persons ethnicity or gender.

If on the other hand we were dealing with a bank or some other place where the clients themselves were being refused entry because of a dress code, then that is totally unacceptable.
There are 9 protected characteristics, those are 2 of them. Belief is on the list and can make any business which has selective rules liable to be sued (but not necessarily found guilty, it would be judged)

But if it is in the better interest of the business to have dress codes as part of their business model is in presenting a certain image then they should do that, damn the beliefs of anyone. What's the point of an upper class restaurant if everyone can look like bums?

I understand the point. I'm just saying those people who look like bums must establish the look is a strict part of their belief system, if so it can go to a court to be judged as it's a legitimate case of discrimination. I don't know what the verdict would be as the restaurant might have a good defence.
I would not declare that all selective discriminating rule makers are illegal it's that they should be aware if they make rules they might end up at court, even if their defence acquits them of wrongdoing. It seems like some people are holding the belief that if they are a private business there is no law that applies to their rules, when there actually is.
 
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It seems like some people are holding the belief that if they are a private business there is no law that applies to their rules, when there actually is.
Not rules rights. You can have laws that violate rights. Just because it is a law does not make it correct and disagreeing with the law does not mean that someone thinks the law doesn't exist.

I disagree with a lot of laws in my country.
 
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