McLaren hit with record fine and lose all Constructors points

[Danoff]

This is a major blow to formula 1 and I'm really sorry to see it come. I'm a ferrari fan, and I don't know all of the details, but this just doesn't sit well.

 

[daan]

Thanks TM for the amount in £'s.
Whats £49.2M to Mclaren though?

Still a lot of money to any company, they aren't a bank or anything....

Santander are though.

Ron will be off into his local branch first thing tomorrow to arrange a loan...

“Furthermore, the team will pay a fine equal to $100m, less the FOM income lost as a result of the points deduction.

But they'll not have to pay the full penalty though. They can subtract the prize money for the amount of points they would have got.

 

[Touring Mars]

It's kind of strange - McLaren are found guilty but not punished, yet... then more is learned about the extent of McLaren's 'guilt' - so Ferrari then cry 'But they're guilty, yet no punishment has been meted out... PUNISH THEM!'... and so the team are punished - presumably because it was proven that the car is better than it should have been without the dodgy documents...

I'm glad McLaren will survive this season, but surely Ferrari will still not be content, since, in their view, they are still racing against a tainted car. Maybe McLaren should have been forced to revert to their previous car too, and stripped of all constructor's points? If that's not the case, then why were McLaren punished at all?

However, common sense has prevailed in any case - ruining the season for the drivers and the fans surely was not an option open for serious consideration...

 

[m7ammed]

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40652

Ferrari says it is 'satisfied' that the full story behind the spying controversy emerged in today's World Motor Sport Council hearing in Paris.

The FIA stripped McLaren-Mercedes of all its 2007 constructors' championship points, fined the team $100 million, and demanded that its 2008 design is presented for inspection before the start of next season.

"Ferrari acknowledges the decision of the FIA to sanction Vodafone McLaren Mercedes for its breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code," said a team statement.

"In light of new evidence, facts and behaviour of an extremely serious nature and grossly prejudicial to the interest of the sport have been further demonstrated.

"Ferrari is satisfied that the truth has now emerged."

The FIA has said that it will release more details of the evidence at the centre of the case tomorrow.

McLaren is due to respond to the outcome of the hearing in a press conference this evening.

well we will have to see what evidence they got that made them punish McMerc

 

[V1P3R]

wow, F1 is becoming a Soap Box...

 

[mipuumal]

I'm really torn from this punishment/lack of punishment.

When I read that the drivers were given immunity because they came forward with evidence I was sickened. If they knew something they should've come forward straight away and not wait until they had a knife to their throat.

Sure, McLaren will lose a bunch of money from the fine and lack of constructor points, but since the drivers knew they were doing something wrong they should also be punished.

Yea, I guess I'm biased because I'm a diehard Kimi fan, but I wouldn't want him to win the championship that he has chased for so long to come because of disqualification.

But now that we know for certain that McLaren did do something very wrong (they wouldn't have been punished at all if they hadn't) and that Hamilton/Alonso were aware, they shouldn't be able to win the championship either.

Unless Kimi/Felipe can make an insane comeback (which doesn't look likely) this season's champion whether it be Hamilton or Alonso, won't be the true champion in my eyes.

Sucks that the season ended prematurely, will be a longer wait than ever before until the next one.

Also, 👎 Peter Windsor

 

[darkfinal]

“However, due to the exceptional circumstances in which the FIA gave the team’s drivers an immunity in return for providing evidence, there is no penalty in regard to drivers’ points."

Wait.... I thought ONLY Alonso and De la Rosa provided their emails to the FIA? Shouldn't Hamilton be punished for that?

 

[GT4 genius]

Ferrari and the FIA really helped F1 shoot intself in the foot.
If McLaren did use a large amount of the documents then i am disgusted and outraged at them as well.
Now the 2007 championship wont be remembered as:
McLarens rivival or
the rookie season ie lewis and hieki's good preformance
It'll just be remembered for this scandal.

I guess i'm a sole BMW fan from now on!!
They'll finish 2nd now, wont they!

 

[GT4 genius]

Wait.... I thought ONLY Alonso and De la Rosa provided their emails to the FIA? Shouldn't Hamilton be punished for that?

Hamilton gave evidence today.

 

[Diego440]

Oh well, so nothing to watch on TV on Sunday

 

[Hugo Boss]

Spying, whoa! It's Stepney from Ferrari that gave them the documents out of revenge. It's not that they went looking for those documents. McLaren should have handed the documents directly over to the FIA after they received them, or just refused them, yes. But with all the dirty games played in F1, it wouldn't surprise me if this was all a setup from Ferrari.

The Ferrari Influenced Association is all too happy to punish McLaren, but illegal parts on Ferrari's just have to be removed before the next race without any consequences. It's the fans that make the sport, not the FIA and the manufacturers. F1 is becoming a big farce, if it already isn't. The races are so irksome nowadays that I clean my room or study during F1 races. On the contrary I hardly miss any DTM, WTCC or MotoGP race...

I'd like to see McLaren-Mercedes step out of F1 after they brought Alonso or Hamilton the title this season. Stripping the constructors' points is killing for the motivation of all the engineers and mechanics, so after this season a lot of them will probably quit anyway.

I'll wait and see how this continues

 

[Pupik]

Well, I'm sorry for Ron too, but to be perfectly frank, who cares about the bloody constructor's championship anyway? Really, who cares about it?

Well, it used to have something to do with travel money. In the case of Tyrrell in 1984, the team was excluded after exhausting all appeals, and had to pay for all of their travel expenses for the 1985 season. Only the top 10 points-scoring teams receive travel benefits for the following year. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with that anymore, since the F1 circus dropped down to 10 teams (and back up, of course) about 4-5 years ago.

With McLaren having many sponsors, and enjoying a lot of financial input from Mercedes-Benz, the travel money isn't going to break their bank account to the point of needing a charity bake sale to transport them across the globe next year.

For all intends and purposes, a Constructor's Title doesn't mean much to Ferrari or Mercedes (does it really help them sell that many more cars?), but to a brand with a little less prestige (like Renault or Honda), it might be more beneficial to list "World Champions" on the back of sales brochures.

Now, any chance the other spy scandal can help strip the AFC East Champs of another title? It's been a lean decade for Miami Dolphins fans!

 

[Bram Turismo]

I'm shell shocked! Poor Ron Dennis, last year he didn't win any races and now when he won alot of them he's disqualified. He just isn't lucky at all.

Poor Ron Dennis? He isn't even able to keep his 2 drivers out of eachother's firing range...

To be honest, this kind of sanction is nothing with today's F1, teams like Mclaren, Toyota and Ferrari would pay that bill like "Fair enough, here you go". Somehow, this comes across me like "Even though we'll lose the WDC title, we'll still be able to give our drivers a title", although that sounds very stupid.

I'm just not happy at all, Mclaren used to be my favourit team in the old days (Coulthard - Hakkinen ftw!) but since the whole spying saga, the last thing I want to do this weekend is watching the Spa GP...

 

[GT4 genius]

This weekends grand prix should be great, dont forget that McLaren and Ferarri are next door to each other.
There's a chance Dennis will deck Todt!!!
It'd be the most exciting grand prix since, eh.....eh.... lets just say the most exciting gp ever!

 

[MagpieRacer]

The FIA have screwed F1, I dont care what Mclaren did, its created a title fight and the FIA have just come and amde this entire constructors season utterly pointless.

 

[m7ammed]

Wait.... I thought ONLY Alonso and De la Rosa provided their emails to the FIA? Shouldn't Hamilton be punished for that?

No body knows what the new evidence is the email story is all media speculation tomorrow we will know what they actually have and the reasons behind the punishment.

 

[GT4 genius]

The FIA have screwed F1 too many times, remember the dud race in Indy, they could have put a chicane in the last turn.
Remember all the stupid rules and restrictions the put on the sport.
I think a seperate body should be set up to deal with these issues, one which has F1's best interests at heart and is totally dedicated to F1 alone.

 

[Hugo Boss]

Well, it used to have something to do with travel money. In the case of Tyrrell in 1984, the team was excluded after exhausting all appeals, and had to pay for all of their travel expenses for the 1985 season. Only the top 10 points-scoring teams receive travel benefits for the following year. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with that anymore, since the F1 circus dropped down to 10 teams (and back up, of course) about 4-5 years ago.

I do know that the first 10 teams get their share of the TV income. So McLaren should have to miss that the coming 2 years. This could have taken the place of the travel benefits, or maybe these still exist.

 

[Sureboss]

Apparently Coughlan and Stepney didn't give evidence, am I the only one bemused by that?

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/9/6769.html

Big Ron's statement is interesting.

 

[Roo]

the drivers were given immunity if they came forward with evidence

Fixed that for you.

I'm suprised no-one's mentioned "bringing the sport into disrepute" yet, as McLaren and Ferrari would be just as guilty as each other, regardless of the spying controversy.

The FIA have screwed F1 too many times,
Remember all the stupid rules and restrictions the put on the sport.

We could always remove the FIA... Oh, look! We don't have a championship anymore.

I think a seperate body should be set up to deal with these issues, one which has F1's best interests at heart and is totally dedicated to F1 alone.

The trouble with that is who would run it? The manufactuers? They'd never agree on anything. And what are F1's best intrests? As far as I was aware the answer was money.

remember the dud race in Indy, they could have put a chicane in the last turn.

Put the lid back on that can of worms!

I'm in an argumentative mood, but don't argue so well (a dangerous mix), so I'm just going to leave it there and check back tomorrow - when I've slept on it and am able to think a bit more clearly.

 

[mipuumal]

I'm suprised no-one's mentioned "bringing the sport into disrepute" yet, as McLaren and Ferrari would be just as guilty as each other, regardless of the spying controversy.

Are you saying that Ferrari should've just bitten the bullet and just thought to themselves "better luck next year"?

I don't mean to put words in your mouth but that's what it sounds like.

To me Ferrari are victims in this, and I don't see them portrayed differently anywhere except maybe in the british media(possibly spanish too, since they are kinda wacky).

 

[Sureboss]

The only victims are the fans.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The only victims are the fans.

True, that.

I have to say, I find the FIA's complete backflip to be rather strange and possible biased. Sure, new evidence came to light, but what if it were another team that made the complaint? Spyker have been harping on about customer cars by Super Aguri and Toro Rosso since day one, but there's been barely a whisper about it. Yet when Ferrari (and Italy) complain about one decision, a meeting is scheduled and McLaren get dragged over hot colas because of the actions of two men, the first of whom was from Ferrari!

 

[Danoff]

The FIA have screwed F1, I dont care what Mclaren did, its created a title fight and the FIA have just come and amde this entire constructors season utterly pointless.

So, integrity of the sport isn't a high priority with you then.

 

[Blake]

To be honest, this kind of sanction is nothing with today's F1, teams like Mclaren, Toyota and Ferrari would pay that bill like "Fair enough, here you go".

Uh…

$100,000,000.00.

One hundred million dollars.

No matter who you are that is an unbelievable amount of money. Just under 1/4 of their yearly budget. That has huge implications for the entire organisation, not just the team—especially since McLaren only got out of debt at the start of the year.

The constructors championship is also a very big deal for sponsors, and there is possibly a clause in Alonso’s contract allowing him to leave if the team doesn’t finish in the top X positions in the constructors championship. Yesterday I’d have said he would be stupid to leave, but with McLaren running on a substantially reduced budget it’s possible that they could struggle next season.

Are you saying that Ferrari should've just bitten the bullet and just thought to themselves "better luck next year"?.

Well Coughlan wasn’t in contact with Stepney until March. The cars had long-prior been testing and McLaren were instantly quick on Bridgestone tyres.

IMO Ferrari’s struggle is due to their inability to maintain the rolling road in their wind tunnel, and the three weeks that their wind tunnel was out of operation because of that.

There is no doubt in my mind that McLaren, as an organisation, are innocent. It is the inappropriate actions of two people working in F1 that have brought the McLaren team and the entire sport into disrepute.

So yes, I think that Ferrari cannot blame their lack of competitiveness on the fact that one McLaren employee was in possession of Ferrari technical documentation.

The only victims are the fans.

Amen.

Sure, new evidence came to light, but what if it were another team that made the complaint?

What about when Toyota stole software from Ferrari and basically nothing was done? I don’t like the precedent set today, I think it’s dangerous for the future of the sport.

So, integrity of the sport isn't a high priority with you then.

The question is, does this penalty help the integrity of the sport or damage it?

 

[Robin]

Gosh!

Ive always been a keen Mclaren fan and have watched them suffer for the last 10 years and I was thinking YES! now is the season they will finally be on top again and they were doing great and now this.

But I do agree that if this boost has been gained wrongfully then they deserve punishment but really 2 years! inst that abit harsh?

Oh well we will see, this could be the undoing of the entire team?, funding will go, sponsorship will go, the drivers will leave and goodbye Mclaren like many other F1 teams

To be honest I dont think it will effect the rest of the sport aswell... it seems an isolated problem.

Robin

 

[Appie]

But isnt a 100 million dollars like 52 million pouns?

 

[McLaren]

Wow...I knew McLaren actually doing well in Formula 1 was too good to be true.

 

[Studentdriver]

For those of you wondering about the perception, in the conversation on ESPN's article about the ruling all the relevant comments are talking about how they see the FIA as asserting their power, unlike the major leagues here in America with the problems they've been having. And remember, this is from the viewpoint of largely unbiased observers.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

What about when Toyota stole software from Ferrari and basically nothing was done? I don’t like the precedent set today, I think it’s dangerous for the future of the sport.

I completely forgot about that - university and all - but it fits right in with my point. I think half the reason why Ferrari challenged the previous decision is because they can't stand the fact that someone might actually be better than them. Kimi Raikkonen was one of McLaren's best drivers and signing him was supposedly a major coup on Ferrari's part, but McLaren retaliated by signing two excellent drivers (think of them what you will). Ferrari's basically saying they're the only ones allowed to win or have a decent car.