McLaren MP4-12C

[Frank Fox]

The best car in the game, just discovered how insanely good this car is.
Oh my God, crazy, crazy car.
Just put sport soft tires on it and see for yourself. I did some testing, on sport softs I could come close to it's real acceleration numbers, I still can't match 0-100km/h on GT5 so the modeling isn't spot on but the handling and suspension is modeled great.

What's so great about this car is it's turn-in, I swear I've never driven anything like that (speaking of stock road cars) ever on GT5, insane turn in - no understeer at all. And it accelerates out of corners like crazy, insane car - my favourite on GT5.
*I drove it stock, raced with the recommended one


What's your take on it?

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Sport soft tires don't belong on a stock Super Car though..
I like the car, but on Sport Hards.

 

[Frank Fox]

GT5's equivalent to MP4's tires is sport soft.

 

[KinLM]

GT5's equivalent to MP4's tires is sport soft.

No. Whatever the equivalent tires are will be the ones fitted when you buy it. I'd say sports hard, MAYBE medium. But soft wouldn't be on the car if you bought it, they're.. Well, they're exactly what they say! They're soft, they'd wear out too quickly. So with that said, you aren't truly driving a stock version of the car. But I do agree that it's an amazing car, although its not much fun in my opinion.. It just lacks the thrill of a ZR1 with the Traction Control turned off.

 

[Chiochan]

I think the brakes are pretty bad in this car. Other than that it's pretty good.

 

[Giygas]

No. Whatever the equivalent tires are will be the ones fitted when you buy it. I'd say sports hard, MAYBE medium. But soft wouldn't be on the car if you bought it, they're.. Well, they're exactly what they say! They're soft, they'd wear out too quickly. So with that said, you aren't truly driving a stock version of the car. But I do agree that it's an amazing car, although its not much fun in my opinion.. It just lacks the thrill of a ZR1 with the Traction Control turned off.

I think what he's saying is that sports soft tires are closer the the real life tires that the car uses in terms of grip and handling.

Sort of like how the Ford MkII GT40 has racing hard tires like the GT500 cars, but there's no way that a car 40 years older can get the same amount of grip that GT500 car can produce, so people downgrade the tires that the GT40 has in order to create a more real experience.

 

[KinLM]

I think what he's saying is that sports soft tires are closer the the real life tires that the car uses in terms of grip and handling.

Sort of like how the Ford MkII GT40 has racing hard tires like the GT500 cars, but there's no way that a car 40 years older can get the same amount of grip that GT500 car can produce, so people downgrade the tires that the GT40 has in order to create a more real experience.

I know he was saying that. I'm saying that I've literally done about 150 acceleration tests with completely stock versions of the cars. Why? Because I did research on my times. Most of the cars I use have sports hard tires, and I can usually get within a tenth of a second of the real life times. But if I fit anything softer, then I always end up going a few tenths faster. Maybe sports hard tires are too hard for the Mclaren, but tires that soft would never be fit to a car out of the dealer. You'd have to replace them far too soon. I don't mean to sound like I'm hating on him or you or anything, I'm just saying what conclusions I come to by using deductive reasoning to come to a logical conclusion.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

GT5's equivalent to MP4's tires is sport soft.

Absolutely not man... Not even close.
With Sport hard rubber on the MP4, you can make 1.5G of Lateral grip..
EVen that is technically too much grip, however the forward bite of CS tires is way to little, so the SH is the best tire to stick with. On a rare occasion is a Sport Soft tire's real life variant EVER used.. Don't correct me when I'm already correct.

 

[KinLM]

Absolutely not man... Not even close.
With Sport hard rubber on the MP4, you can make 1.5G of Lateral grip..
EVen that is technically too much grip, however the forward bite of CS tires is way to little, so the SH is the best tire to stick with. On a rare occasion is a Sport Soft tire's real life variant EVER used.. Don't correct me when I'm already correct.

Thank you.. That's what I've been trying to say.. Only you kinda.. Well.. Explained it better! Haha. Anyways, AGREE WITH HIM ^^^^^^^^

 

[Frank Fox]

No. Whatever the equivalent tires are will be the ones fitted when you buy it. I'd say sports hard, MAYBE medium. But soft wouldn't be on the car if you bought it, they're.. Well, they're exactly what they say! They're soft, they'd wear out too quickly. So with that said, you aren't truly driving a stock version of the car. But I do agree that it's an amazing car, although its not much fun in my opinion.. It just lacks the thrill of a ZR1 with the Traction Control turned off.

MP4-12C uses Pirelli PZero Corsa and read what people say about the durability of that tyre: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Pirelli/PZero-Corsa-System.htm

It's got two wear ratings of 3, one rating of 1, one of 6 and one on 5 on high performance cars. Point? It's a soft compound, it wears quickly.

I think what he's saying is that sports soft tires are closer the the real life tires that the car uses in terms of grip and handling.

Sort of like how the Ford MkII GT40 has racing hard tires like the GT500 cars, but there's no way that a car 40 years older can get the same amount of grip that GT500 car can produce, so people downgrade the tires that the GT40 has in order to create a more real experience.

Exactly, just like Jaguar XJ13 - it comes on racing hards and has adjustable downforce without actually having any wings to begin with.
This car is best driven on sport softs with downforce set to lowest setting.

I know he was saying that. I'm saying that I've literally done about 150 acceleration tests with completely stock versions of the cars. Why? Because I did research on my times. Most of the cars I use have sports hard tires, and I can usually get within a tenth of a second of the real life times. But if I fit anything softer, then I always end up going a few tenths faster. Maybe sports hard tires are too hard for the Mclaren, but tires that soft would never be fit to a car out of the dealer. You'd have to replace them far too soon. I don't mean to sound like I'm hating on him or you or anything, I'm just saying what conclusions I come to by using deductive reasoning to come to a logical conclusion.

Yes, I believe that you did a 3.0s 0-100km/h on sport hards in a stock MP4, right. /sarcasm
Even with sport soft I only managed 3.5s, I can't match the 0-100km/h acceleration but I guess that's due to GT5's lack of modeling for MP4's state of the art traction control system.


Now if you excuse me, stop questioning my methods and stay on topic. This isn't a discussion about who's right and there's no point in trying to prove me wrong.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

You have turned it into a discussion on who's right and who's wrong, by being the wrong one, and defending your opinion. I have ran 3.2 on SH Tires (I use a G27). Why would you agree that a vintage race car has the same tires in which you are claiming this super car to have? Can you see the idiocy in this? Old or not it is still a racing compound that you wouldn't find on the street even today. I assure you, the McLaren MP4-12C would not have the equivalent to SS tires in real life.
I simply assure you this.

 

[Seismica]

Sport soft tires don't belong on a stock Super Car though..
I like the car, but on Sport Hards.

The car simply doesn't produce enough grip on Sports Hards. Compared to say the F458 Italia, it is not an accurate representation. On the same tyres, the Mclaren gets destroyed by the Ferrari, when this is not the case is reality where they are fairly evenly matched.

The stock tyres on cars are not always an accurate representation, but to maintain a realistic balance of car performance you need to improve the tyres on the Mclaren otherwise it is at a disadvantage to it's Italian rivals.

 

[KinLM]

MP4-12C uses Pirelli PZero Corsa and read what people say about the durability of that tyre: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Pirelli/PZero-Corsa-System.htm

It's got two wear ratings of 3, one rating of 1, one of 6 and one on 5 on high performance cars. Point? It's a soft compound, it wears quickly.

Exactly, just like Jaguar XJ13 - it comes on racing hards and has adjustable downforce without actually having any wings to begin with.
This car is best driven on sport softs with downforce set to lowest setting.

Yes, I believe that you did a 3.0s 0-100km/h on sport hards in a stock MP4, right. /sarcasm
Even with sport soft I only managed 3.5s, I can't match the 0-100km/h acceleration but I guess that's due to GT5's lack of modeling for MP4's state of the art traction control system.

Now if you excuse me, stop questioning my methods and stay on topic. This isn't a discussion about who's right and there's no point in trying to prove me wrong.

No. They're labeled soft in the reviews because that's compared to the heavily treaded tires on almost all cars today. A sports soft tire would basically be classified as a racing tire, so almost no tire review scale would be set up to rate a tire like that. And I'm American, all I know is I got a 3.25 0-60 time..

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

The car simply doesn't produce enough grip on Sports Hards. Compared to say the F458 Italia, it is not an accurate representation. On the same tyres, the Mclaren gets destroyed by the Ferrari, when this is not the case is reality where they are fairly evenly matched.

The stock tyres on cars are not always an accurate representation, but to maintain a realistic balance of car performance you need to improve the tyres on the Mclaren otherwise it is at a disadvantage to it's Italian rivals.

I'm aware of this, that isn't because of tires, that is because of driving dynamics. PD's fault if anything..
For the record, I am faster around Laguna Seca in an MP4 than I am in a 458..

 

[KinLM]

The car simply doesn't produce enough grip on Sports Hards. Compared to say the F458 Italia, it is not an accurate representation. On the same tyres, the Mclaren gets destroyed by the Ferrari, when this is not the case is reality where they are fairly evenly matched.

The stock tyres on cars are not always an accurate representation, but to maintain a realistic balance of car performance you need to improve the tyres on the Mclaren otherwise it is at a disadvantage to it's Italian rivals.

Really? A 458 Spyder laps faster than an MP4-12C. Do some research please.

 

[KinLM]

Alright, forget that actually, an MP4-12C actually can lap slightly faster, I did look it up. But we're talking 5 seconds over the whole length of the Nurburgring, that's not much. If you put on Sports Soft tires on the Mclaren, then it generates near 2 G's in the corner if you push it, which is ridiculous. Now I'm tired of arguing about tires, the fact of the matter is GT5 can't make a realistic tire simulate, now can we all get back to praising this amazing car please?

 

[Frank Fox]

You have turned it into a discussion on who's right and who's wrong, by being the wrong one, and defending your opinion. I have ran 3.2 on SH Tires (I use a G27). Why would you agree that a vintage race car has the same tires in which you are claiming this super car to have? Can you see the idiocy in this? Old or not it is still a racing compound that you wouldn't find on the street even today. I assure you, the McLaren MP4-12C would not have the equivalent to SS tires in real life.
I simply assure you this.

No need to call me an idiot, I'm trying to keep it civil here.
Although that's a bit ironic, since you fail to see that cars in GT5 have individual mechanical grip (basically saying that sport hard on GT-R isn't the same as sport hard on S7, or MP4).
What you're saying is that all cars' grip in GT5 depends solely on tires which is interesting, to say the least.

Also, love how this community just attempts to prove me wrong and to question my methods and driving/testing ability.
What a funny community.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Like, I thought this was well known by the GT community, SH have a LOT of grip..
As I mentioned earlier, the MP4 with those tires can sustain higher G-Loads than it should technically make with them equipped. With that said, SS tires are out of the equation.

No need to call me an idiot, I'm trying to keep it civil here.
Although that's a bit ironic, since you fail to see that cars in GT5 have individual mechanical grip (basically saying that sport hard on GT-R isn't the same as sport hard on S7, or MP4).
What you're saying is that all cars' grip in GT5 depends solely on tires which is interesting, to say the least.

Also, love how this community just attempts to prove me wrong and to question my methods and driving/testing ability.
What a funny community.

I don't remember calling you an idiot.. I believe I have remained fully civil as well.
So you're telling me that there are some cars in this game that should have racing slicks come stock, simply because they aren't producing the grip that you see fit?
I don't see any point of this discussion where anyone has questioned your driving abilities, all I have done is simply used information and solid proof as to why you are wrong, while all you have provided is "lol's" and a silly defense speech. On GTP you had better be right about something if you want to argue about it or you will be corrected by many, I don't see the bad in that.

 

[Frank Fox]

Yet again, the pinnacle of this community's way of thinking fails to comprehend that GT5's grip loss is far too steep and it can only be compensated by having more Gs.
Therefore you can't compare real skidpad data to GT5's G-force meter since GT5's tire physics (lateral grip loss to be precise) is way off.

 

[KinLM]

Like, I thought this was well known by the GT community, SH have a LOT of grip..
As I mentioned earlier, the MP4 with those tires can sustain higher G-Loads than it should technically make with them equipped. With that said, SS tires are out of the equation.

I'm still new to GTP, and you seem really sensible, to say the least. I'm glad that at least somebody else realizes that SS tires on a car is like racing tires from the 60's, which would never be found on a street car even today..

 

[KinLM]

Yet again, the pinnacle of this community's way of thinking fails to comprehend that GT5's grip loss is far too steep and it can only be compensated by having more Gs.
Therefore you can't compare real skidpad data to GT5's G-force meter since GT5's tire physics (lateral grip loss to be precise) is way off.

If anything, you can corner slightly faster in the game than in real life on a lot of the cars. I'm not saying much, it's pretty close to spot on honestly. But adding more G's just makes the car further off from real life. I don't understand your logic.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

I'm still new to GTP, and you seem really sensible, to say the least. I'm glad that at least somebody else realizes that SS tires on a car is like racing tires from the 60's, which would never be found on a street car even today..

Well thank you
I make it sound like I know what I am talking about some times. 💡

 

[Frank Fox]

Again it's like talking to a wall here.
And motortrend, I know what you're saying.
I drive my NSX-R on comfort mediums, my SLS AMG on comfort soft, my F430 on comfort soft etc. (see the pattern in this?), so I'm not ignorant.
Now, it doesn't take a genius to realise that comforts are your typical road tires ranging from your VW Golf MkII to Lamborghini Murcielago, sports are high performance tires and racing are... just that, slicks. But there are exceptions, Nissan GT-R is spot on on sport hards (no need for comforts), MP4 is realistic on sport mediums/softs, Corvette ZR1 is on sport mediums/hards, Viper ACR is on mediums/softs and some more, Enzo is on hards that's all I can think of right now.
So in other words I know what you're saying and I'll repeat once again - don't try to disprove my methods and my knowledge, since you can't do that.
Thank you.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Again it's like talking to a wall here.
And motortrend, I know what you're saying.
I drive my NSX-R on comfort mediums, my SLS AMG on comfort soft, my F430 on comfort soft etc. (see the pattern in this?), so I'm not ignorant.
Now, it doesn't take a genius to realise that comforts are your typical road tires ranging from your VW Golf MkII to Lamborghini Murcielago, sports are high performance tires and racing are... just that, slicks. But there are exceptions, Nissan GT-R is spot on on sport hards (no need for comforts), MP4 is realistic on sport mediums/softs, Corvette ZR1 is on sport mediums/hards, Viper ACR is on mediums/softs and some more, Enzo is on hards that's all I can think of right now.
So in other words I know what you're saying and I'll repeat once again - don't try to disprove my methods and my knowledge, since you can't do that.
Thank you.

Tomorrow I will run some laps around Laguna.. and Compare them to the game's rendition of the car on SH SM and SS. We'll see..

And before anyone crucifies me for doing the unthinkable and comparing the games lap times to real life That is getting us further than this silly argument. 👍

 

[1241Penguin]

The only reason the McLaren MP4-12C needs high-grip tires to replicate the one in real life is because PD did not model the car properly. There is no evidence at all of the brake steer in GT5, nor its unique traction control system, hence why you need high-grip tires to compensate.

 

[Giygas]

The MP4 should be a bit faster in a straight line than the 458, so that would explain why it can keep up if not beat it in longer tracks with huge straights. If both cars were upgraded to aftermarket tires the MP4 should be more competitive on tighter tracks. But i'm theorying here.

Tomorrow I will run some laps around Laguna.. and Compare them to the game's rendition of the car on SH SM and SS. We'll see..

And before anyone crucifies me for doing the unthinkable and comparing the games lap times to real life That is getting us further than this silly argument. 👍

make it a review, i like those 👍

 

[KinLM]

Again it's like talking to a wall here.
And motortrend, I know what you're saying.
I drive my NSX-R on comfort mediums, my SLS AMG on comfort soft, my F430 on comfort soft etc. (see the pattern in this?), so I'm not ignorant.
Now, it doesn't take a genius to realise that comforts are your typical road tires ranging from your VW Golf MkII to Lamborghini Murcielago, sports are high performance tires and racing are... just that, slicks. But there are exceptions, Nissan GT-R is spot on on sport hards (no need for comforts), MP4 is realistic on sport mediums/softs, Corvette ZR1 is on sport mediums/hards, Viper ACR is on mediums/softs and some more, Enzo is on hards that's all I can think of right now.
So in other words I know what you're saying and I'll repeat once again - don't try to disprove my methods and my knowledge, since you can't do that.
Thank you.

So you're saying that the tires on a $1,000,000 Enzo arent as good as the tires on a $300,000 McLaren? I'm sorry, but you have no research to back up the fact that the tires on an MP4-12C are better than a car which costs 3 times as much and goes much faster.

 

[KinLM]

I think I'm gonna stop arguing, I mean after all it's not like they modeled everything about the car perfectly, it just seems to me that SS tires are what you'd save to use on a Track Day, and nothing else. I live in Texas, where you have to have the most durable tires possible or else the 130°F road temps will just kill the tires. But maybe in the more lovely parts of the world, you can use soft tires for more than a day. All I'm gonna say is, it's a great car, a true example of what humans can do. And with that I'm going to stop disagreeing with you all.

 

[lldantell]

I couldn't make the mp4-12c drive like how I want to drive it.it just understeer and when you get on the power,it oversteers.it's like if the car want me to drive smoother and I got a aggressive driving style.if you want a really good handling drivers car,get a Ferrari 458 italia

 

[Frank Fox]

The only reason the McLaren MP4-12C needs high-grip tires to replicate the one in real life is because PD did not model the car properly. There is no evidence at all of the brake steer in GT5, nor its unique traction control system, hence why you need high-grip tires to compensate.

Yaaay, finally someone with some common sense.
If someone only read my OP thoroughly...

so the modeling isn't spot on

So you're saying that the tires on a $1,000,000 Enzo arent as good as the tires on a $300,000 McLaren? I'm sorry, but you have no research to back up the fact that the tires on an MP4-12C are better than a car which costs 3 times as much and goes much faster.

Since when doesn't a car's cost relate to the car's tires?
I can asure you that a 70.000euro Exige has better tires than a 180.000euro Gallardo.