McLaren Reveals Vision Gran Turismo-Inspired Solus GT Track Car

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39,839
ZRO
And people continue to say the VGT project is a waste of resources. The amount of design influence and full blow cars born from VGT speaks volumes to how influential it actually is.
Yes over the past 9 years the grand total of... uh... 1 ultra-rich person's track toy? A handful of cars that the companies already made covered in extra vents and spoilers and bodykits? The Chiron is probably the closest to an actual example, if automotive production lead times didn't mean that its design would have been locked in well before the Vision GT was shown off (meaning the car they actually planned on selling for money was done first and Bugatti showed off the Vision GT car to preview it).


Plus it's real manufacturers doing realistic mad concepts, not PD just making up cars with a Nike symbol.
Functionally there's no difference between nonsense like the SRT or the Chaparral and the Nike from GT4.
 
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6,022
Canada
Ottawa
Pyano1132
This car looks like what the FIA were teasing for proper Le Mans Hypercars in their promotional videos, but every manufacturer ended up going the prototype route unfortunately.

It’s an interesting looking car, if a little dumbed down from the VGT’s appearance, but it now inhabits the odd track-day only prototype area as the Bolide and Valkyrie AMR, which I think is one of the weirdest new automotive segments. It doesn’t have the same appeal as a track-converted road car.
 

RACECAR

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It’s an interesting looking car, if a little dumbed down from the VGT’s appearance, but it now inhabits the odd track-day only prototype area as the Bolide and Valkyrie AMR, which I think is one of the weirdest new automotive segments. It doesn’t have the same appeal as a track-converted road car.
I have always found it interesting that we've gone from an area only covered by the likes of Caterham and KTM to now something catered by those brands as well as Lamborghini.

A 5.2l naturally aspirated V10? Are they using the Audighini engine for this?
Its a Judd V10 from what I have heard.
 
13,432
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
ZRO
And people continue to say the VGT project is a waste of resources. The amount of design influence and full blow cars born from VGT speaks volumes to how influential it actually is.
Right. It's influencing entirely unavailable track only hypercars for the rich and elite. Excellent. Keep it up Polyphony, that's what the world needs more of.

I'd say the amount of design influence and the full blown cars that have resulted are a perfect example of what a waste of resources the VGT project has been. These companies didn't need Polyphony's influence to design or sell this stuff. Polyphony didn't contribute anything. It's pure marketing, but directed squarely at the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. Someone could work hard and save their pennies and maybe one day afford a 911, but this thing? You'll be lucky if you're in the same country as one.

I miss the Gran Turismo that featured every day cars that every day people could afford. People playing Gran Turismo aren't generally in the market for a multi-million dollar supercar. But they're probably in the market for an affordable sportscar that they could drive on the road.

Maybe some sort of future Grand Tourer would be nice? They could have some sort of program where manufacturers could design potential future Grand Touring cars, ones that would be able to be manufactured and affordable by mere mortals. That'd be cool, like seeing into the future. How great would it be playing a concept car as a teenager then growing up to buy the actual model ten years later?

But hypercars made of imaginarium and unaffordable track only genital extensions, that's definitely the way to go.
 
24,674
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I don't get this idea that without the VGT program stuff like this wouldn't happen. The VGT program is not "influential". Manufacturers have been designing silly concepts long before VGT came along, and they've been making real cars out of them occasionally for just as long.

The only difference is some of those silly concepts have been sent to PD and they've put them in the game for marketing. If anyone truly thinks manufactuers have been designing cars PURELY for Gran Turismo and they wouldn't exist without it, nor the offshoots like this, I have a bridge to sell you.
 
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Northstar

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I've taken to calling these insanely small production run hyper cars "Warehouse Warriors" because that's likely where they will be 99.9% of the time. The .1% is the rare occasion they are actually fired up... and driven across the auction stage at a blistering 5 mph/8 kph.

I have always found it interesting that we've gone from an area only covered by the likes of Caterham and KTM to now something catered by those brands as well as Lamborghini.
We're pretty much still there though because apart from a factory supported promo run up Goodwood cars like this are pretty much never going to be driven in anger as they're too valuable of an investment.
 
724
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Southfield, Detroit
BroncoFLHX
This is the most literal example of a VGT going real.

On the topic of the purpose of VGT cars:

They’re concept cars.

They just happened to have a reason to make them. I ask the designers who were a part of them and how it was, and it was a general concept car brief. I mention Gran Turismo and they say “oh yeah, they also did that with it!”

Do you guys hate concept cars?
 
24,674
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Do you guys hate concept cars?
Hate is a strong word, but I don't particularly care to "drive" any of them, no. "drive" because 99% of the time you're driving fiction as they don't actually exist as running vehicles in reality.
 
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Northstar

The Original Party Worm
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24,127
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Anoka, MN
They just happened to have a reason to make them. I ask the designers who were a part of them and how it was, and it was a general concept car brief. I mention Gran Turismo and they say “oh yeah, they also did that with it!”
The fact you had to specifically bring up GT in order for it to enter their minds should tell you just how little of an impact the Vision GT program has had.

Do you guys hate concept cars?
A little bit yes, prototypes are far more interesting since they're at least usually designed with the possibility it may go into production in mind. There's also a far better chance that it may actually function as an automobile instead of a giant clay brick.
 
83
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France
not 180° because of this.
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13,432
Australia
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GTP_Imari
They’re concept cars.

They just happened to have a reason to make them. I ask the designers who were a part of them and how it was, and it was a general concept car brief. I mention Gran Turismo and they say “oh yeah, they also did that with it!”

Do you guys hate concept cars?
It depends. Concept cars as a general category have their place. Concept cars that are the preliminary work to a real car (or could have been) like the Nissan GTR Concept? Freaking excellent more please. Perfect fit for the game.

The car that is in the OP is basically pure marketing for McLaren. It exists in the real world now, but it's neither race car nor road car. It has no real world application, either as a vehicle or in a racing series. It's a rich man's toy whose main design consideration was that it allow the owner to flex how wealthy and influential they are. It will go to a track, do some hot laps, and be put back in the garage for the rest of the year. That is, to my mind, the very worst parts of car culture all rolled into one.

Concept cars are fundamentally another way of marketing your brand and product, and so there's some consideration about what that marketing says. I do not like what this piece of marketing says, about McLaren, about the VGT program and Gran Turismo, about car culture, and about the world. I do not like that the VGT program helped promote it, I think it's antithetical to the original ethos of Gran Turismo in the way that a GTR concept (and to be fair, some of the other VGT concepts) are not.

I think on the whole the VGT program has produced more rich boy toy wankery than it has concepts that are interesting and relevant to Gran Turismo players. I want to see concepts that have at least a vague connection to cars I might one day get to ride in the real world. There's a few in there. The FT-1 was great. I hope the Honda turns into a real car one day. And there's some like the BMW/Mini/VW/Daihatsu that are functionally their modern cars with wings and a mad body kit. But most of it's fantasy race cars and willy waving. Even when some of them do make it to the real world.

I just don't see the relevance to anyone actually playing the game beyond "ooo, pretty fantasy car". Which is a thing that people enjoy, but Gran Turismo came to prominence precisely because it wasn't stuffed full of unobtainable hypercars and imaginary thrust-mobiles.
 
311
Austria
Austria
Right. It's influencing entirely unavailable track only hypercars for the rich and elite. Excellent. Keep it up Polyphony, that's what the world needs more of.

I'd say the amount of design influence and the full blown cars that have resulted are a perfect example of what a waste of resources the VGT project has been. These companies didn't need Polyphony's influence to design or sell this stuff. Polyphony didn't contribute anything. It's pure marketing, but directed squarely at the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. Someone could work hard and save their pennies and maybe one day afford a 911, but this thing? You'll be lucky if you're in the same country as one.

I miss the Gran Turismo that featured every day cars that every day people could afford. People playing Gran Turismo aren't generally in the market for a multi-million dollar supercar. But they're probably in the market for an affordable sportscar that they could drive on the road.

Maybe some sort of future Grand Tourer would be nice? They could have some sort of program where manufacturers could design potential future Grand Touring cars, ones that would be able to be manufactured and affordable by mere mortals. That'd be cool, like seeing into the future. How great would it be playing a concept car as a teenager then growing up to buy the actual model ten years later?

But hypercars made of imaginarium and unaffordable track only genital extensions, that's definitely the way to go.
My god, PD must be so sorry that these cars doesn’t fit your taste.
So you are ranting because there’s track-only race cars developed (with real manufacturers) for a racing game?
What kind of argument even is this??
You also complain that there’s the Ferrari FXX-K, the McLaren P1 GTR etc. in the game? These track-only HyperCars for the rich elite?
You know without the VGT Program you still would have these cars in the game, just minus the VGT Cars like any other racing game. This is just a bonus, a pretty unique bonus, you can like it or just don’t like it, but there’s no reason to be that angry about something that is just a extra to a game that no other game has, something that you can just neglect if it doesn’t speak to you.
And if your argument is that they „waste“ resources on it, I don’t think (like many here pointing out) that from PD‘s side that there’s so much work put into it, it lies for the most part on the manufacturers side I would say
 
2,393
FLX81
I have to say that I am getting strong "Eat the rich!" vibes off of this pointless contraption as well. Plus it doesnt even look like a McL, almost generic.
 
39,839
So you are ranting because there’s track-only race cars developed (with real manufacturers) for a racing game?
No, he's pointing out that the airs people put on about how important/influential the program has been, like was done earlier in this thread, is nonsense.


What kind of argument even is this??
You could try actually reading what was written, for once.

This is just a bonus, a pretty unique bonus, you can like it or just don’t like it, but there’s no reason to be that angry about something that is just a extra to a game that no other game has, something that you can just neglect if it doesn’t speak to you.
The only angry person in this thread seems to be you. Perhaps unsurprising considering the amount of contempt you've shown towards people (and Imari in particular) for trying to talk about this topic (among others) in a way you don't like in the past.

And if your argument is that they „waste“ resources on it, I don’t think (like many here pointing out) that from PD‘s side that there’s so much work put into it, it lies for the most part on the manufacturers side I would say
And you'd be wrong. For many of the Vision GT cars, PD are the ones doing all of the heavy lifting. The manufacturer may make a 1:1 physical model and they are probably the ones who provide the made up specs for it (shout out to Bugatti for saying their Vision GT car weighs about 800 less pounds than it could possibly do in real life) but PD are the ones who have to spent months of man hours putting it in the game. This should have been obvious years ago when the likes of the 2X, with its elaborately written sci fi nonsense powertrain, was added to the game based off some concept drawings on behalf of a manufacturer that hadn't existed for 18 years and wasn't even in the spirit of the cars they did make. It should have been even more obvious when Nike was added to the Vision GT program under two different brands.






This is also ignoring that PD spending time making all these which now make up a not-insubstantial portion of the car list has real opportunity costs (which is where a lot of the complaints about the program stem from); which is a constraint a major auto manufacturer doesn't have even for the handful that have been recreated physically.
 
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No, he's pointing out that the airs people put on about how important/influential the program has been is nonsense.



You could try actually reading what was written.


The only angry person in this thread seems to be you.


And you'd be wrong. Except for the fraction of ones where the manufacturer builds some sort of physical example, PD are the only ones putting substantial work into the program. This should have been obvious years ago when the likes of the Chaparral (a company that no longer exists)
So you just type in some stuff because you don't like the program, no matter if your arguments are bs?

First: why am I angry and he's not? What is there on both our comments that makes you think I am angry, but he's not?

What is obvious about that PD is putting substantial work into VGT's? You do know that these cars get developed by the manufacturer, by actual designers, engineers etc. and not by PD? That is the biggest amount of work put into it, actually developing the car. Implementing it into the game won't be that of a problem considering these cars get developed fully digital and with the game in mind from the beginning on.
And btw, the comment you defend here literally says that "Polyphony didn't contribute anything" (what isn't true also), but you could actually try reading what was written.

And who, really, who said that the VGT program would influence real life everyday-cars? Read what the actual goal of the VGT program is. If there's people who say this would be the case, they understand this either, but that's not the fault of PD, the VGT-program is what it is.
And if the influence it has on real-life cars doesn't fit your individual expectations, then yeah, too bad. It influences real-life cars, that is way more than any game ever did. PD doesn't dictate what kind of car they expect from the manufacturer except that it has to be a Gran Turismo, so the manufacturer delivers, makes use of the out-of-boundaries frame he has free from the restrictions they normally have with a production car, and maybe even produces a real-life car from it or lets it influence later production cars.
So what are you suggesting, that PD just say "nah, we don't like that, that's too elite-like for us" or "please don't build a actual production model out of the one you developed for us"?
 
24,674
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
PD doesn't dictate what kind of car they expect from the manufacturer
Except at the start of the series, they literally did.

"Would you be willing to design your rendition of Gran Turismo for us?" The videogame’s name "Gran Turismo" (GT) refers to a 2-door sport car, known as a Grand Touring car in the automotive world.
What people are suggesting is that PD/the manufacturers should have actually stuck to that instead of building willy waving rocket ships out of lasers and materials that don't exist and 2500hp. Or even this McLaren, which whilst based in reality, it was not a road going Grand Tourer.
 
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2,481
Australia
Australia
Decepticon 47
Right. It's influencing entirely unavailable track only hypercars for the rich and elite. Excellent. Keep it up Polyphony, that's what the world needs more of.

I'd say the amount of design influence and the full blown cars that have resulted are a perfect example of what a waste of resources the VGT project has been. These companies didn't need Polyphony's influence to design or sell this stuff. Polyphony didn't contribute anything. It's pure marketing, but directed squarely at the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. Someone could work hard and save their pennies and maybe one day afford a 911, but this thing? You'll be lucky if you're in the same country as one.

I miss the Gran Turismo that featured every day cars that every day people could afford. People playing Gran Turismo aren't generally in the market for a multi-million dollar supercar. But they're probably in the market for an affordable sportscar that they could drive on the road.

Maybe some sort of future Grand Tourer would be nice? They could have some sort of program where manufacturers could design potential future Grand Touring cars, ones that would be able to be manufactured and affordable by mere mortals. That'd be cool, like seeing into the future. How great would it be playing a concept car as a teenager then growing up to buy the actual model ten years later?

But hypercars made of imaginarium and unaffordable track only genital extensions, that's definitely the way to go.
I miss the time where PD actually put real concept cars in the game rather than vgt spaceships.
 
13,432
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
My god, PD must be so sorry that these cars doesn’t fit your taste.
So you are ranting because there’s track-only race cars developed (with real manufacturers) for a racing game?
What kind of argument even is this??
Critiquing the VGT program is ranting now? 'Kay.
You also complain that there’s the Ferrari FXX-K, the McLaren P1 GTR etc. in the game? These track-only HyperCars for the rich elite?
I could, but they're not part of the VGT program and so not relevant to this thread.
This is just a bonus, a pretty unique bonus, you can like it or just don’t like it, but there’s no reason to be that angry about something that is just a extra to a game that no other game has, something that you can just neglect if it doesn’t speak to you.
I kind of get the impression that you would like people to be positive about everything or just shut up. That's not how any of this works.

And you're still assuming anger, which again, 'kay.
And if your argument is that they „waste“ resources on it, I don’t think (like many here pointing out) that from PD‘s side that there’s so much work put into it, it lies for the most part on the manufacturers side I would say
My opinion is that the implementation of the VGT program has been for the most part a waste of resources that could have been used more effectively. I've explained why in what I think is reasonable detail. You obviously disagree, and I don't doubt that there's people out there that love every single VGT released.

I'm not sure that "it's not that much work for PD" holds up as a counterargument though. However much work it is or isn't, it could have been used on something else.
First: why am I angry and he's not? What is there on both our comments that makes you think I am angry, but he's not?
I mean, why did you assume I was angry in the first place? I may have a snarky writing style sometimes, but that's not a reliable indicator of anger. I'd say starting sentences with "my god" and ending them with multiple question marks is a better indicator of anger, but still not reliable. Sometimes you just really question things.
That is the biggest amount of work put into it, actually developing the car.
Is it? It's a concept car. It can be as much or as little work as the manufacturers choose. One could spend months doing detailed design research, iterating on ideas and making sure that the proposed numbers that go along with the mechanical design are reasonable and feasible.

Or one could get an artist to throw together a model of something racey looking with appropriate design language, slap a ludicrous powerplant on it and some impossible downforce numbers and call it a day. Total man hours somewhere below 8, including a liquid lunch.

The VGT program appears to have both of these and everything in-between.
And btw, the comment you defend here literally says that "Polyphony didn't contribute anything" (what isn't true also), but you could actually try reading what was written.
It would appear you've misinterpreted that. My bad, perhaps I should have been more clear, but the previous sentence did reference "design and sell".

My intended meaning was "Polyphony didn't contribute anything to the design or production", which as far as I understand it is true. The manufacturers have total control over the design and it's specs. Polyphony do not give them limitations, nor do they help with the design or engineering. Polyphony just puts it in the game.

In terms of a car that is made in the real world (as is the topic of this thread), Polyphony has done nothing to aid in the design or production of that car.
And if the influence it has on real-life cars doesn't fit your individual expectations, then yeah, too bad.
It is too bad. But we're still allowed to talk about it.
PD doesn't dictate what kind of car they expect from the manufacturer except that it has to be a Gran Turismo...
They don't even specify that. That was the understanding at the start of the project, but I think at this point there are enough VGTs that are clearly in no way Grand Tourers that it's safe to say that Polyphony in no way held manufacturers to it.
So what are you suggesting, that PD just say "nah, we don't like that, that's too elite-like for us" or "please don't build a actual production model out of the one you developed for us"?
Yes.

I mean, they shouldn't say "never make a real car out of this" because then it wouldn't be a concept car. The whole point is that these cars should be able to make it into the real world. But absolutely they should be able to come back with "nah, we don't like that because..." whatever reasons they care to insert. It's (supposedly) some sort of collaboration. Polyphony can choose what they do and don't want to put in their game.

I would prefer if the VGT project was much more focused and had actual guidelines around what is and isn't appropriate. I obviously have a direction in which I think it could be most effectively focused, but I'd actually take just about anything.

If they decided that all the cars should be GT3-like, that would be a choice and there would be advantages to that.
If they decided that they should all be 1000+ halo track day cars, I think that would be boring but you'd at least have a field of track day cars which would be kinda cool.
If they decided that everyone should make a sub-$100,000 electric sports car of the type that they think will be on the road in ten years, that would be interesting and relevant.

I thought the "everyone make a Grand Tourer" idea was fine, relevant to the game and cars of that type are usually beautiful and excellent to drive on a wide variety of tracks. But they didn't stick to it. Even the topic of this article is in absolutely no way a Grand Tourer. It can't even go on the road.

There's any number of design briefs they could have chosen that would give better racing and make the cars more relevant both to players and to advertisers and the world at large. After all, this is basically marketing so Polyphony's "job" is to get the manufacturers names out there. But they let it devolve into "anything goes", which gets you variety but doesn't do much beyond that.

You're welcome to disagree, but I think the VGT program would be better if it had clear guidelines that were actually enforced by Polyphony.
 
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Except at the start of the series, they literally did.


What people are suggesting is that PD/the manufacturers should have actually stuck to that instead of building willy waving rocket ships out of lasers and materials that don't exist and 2500hp. Or even this McLaren, which whilst based in reality, it was not a road going Grand Tourer.
Except that I also wrote literally this in my comment, read it again if you will.

The description is a 2 door sports car, what do you expect from a manufacturer like McLaren? And there‘s nothing that says they have to be road-going. You people never get satisfied ain’t you? Neglect it or enjoy it, but complaining about it in this way, make such a serious problem out of it, which it isn’t, is just bs to be honest.

If PD said we want you to create „everyday affordable sports cars that could be produced in big units in the near future“, what do you think how many manufacturers would‘ve participated in it? Maybe PD could’ve made a one-time deal or something, but a whole program wouldn’t work, that’s not how manufacturers would work. These high-end VGT are prestige objects, they are good for advertising their brand with a small amount of investment.
Sure PD could get some Concept cars in the game which could turn out to be production cars in some form later, but you never know this before like with the VGTs, that’s not up to PD. And these concept cars are what manufacturers do normally, they don’t need PD for this and they wouldn’t be exclusive probably because they are too important.
 
39,839
First: why am I angry and he's not? What is there on both our comments that makes you think I am angry, but he's not?
Because of your post history, your inability to respond to people to people you disagree with without acting like they have a third arm coming out of their ass, the tone of your responses in this thread, your post history towards Imari on this very topic:
Even that I’m agreeing that my post got deleted because of the insult I wrote in it, it wasn’t a personal attack because I just wanted to personally attack him, it was just a fact that I realized. He‘s not acting very intelligent, but unfortunately has a very strong opinion and to add to that, doesn’t really mind to read what the other one wrote
And also the fact that you went off on his post in this thread without actually understanding it; and still don't seem to have any understanding of it or any of the posts you're responding to beyond "They are criticizing PD."


What is obvious about that PD is putting substantial work into VGT's? You do know that these cars get developed by the manufacturer, by actual designers, engineers etc. and not by PD? That is the biggest amount of work put into it, actually developing the car. Implementing it into the game won't be that of a problem considering these cars get developed fully digital and with the game in mind from the beginning on.
No, they don't. The amount of cars in this program that had any development work put into them could be counted on one hand; and I suspect the answer is "only the ones made by Volkswagen-Audi Group." Almost none of them have been "developed". Almost none of them have any existence beyond drawings/a clay model and a press release saying how cool they are. Most of them likely haven't even seen the desk of an engineer in the company. Making up stats isn't development work. Making a clay model that you take to a car show and push to its booth isn't development work. Talking about all the amazing technology that is in a concept car isn't development work. Claiming performance isn't development work. Developing a car is development work. Even the car that was basically a car a manufacturer was already finishing up development on in real life (the Bugatti) has stats in-game as a Vision GT that are laughable. In that respect, the overwhelming majority of the VGT cars are no different than any other point in the past when a car manufacturer has trotted out crazy concept cars that have nothing to do with anything with the brand's past or future and are just there to get people talking about the brand. GM in particular was a master class of doing such a thing in the 1980s.



It's why the attempt to dismiss the Nike from GT4 as somehow different and inferior to the VGT program as done earlier in the thread is such a joke, since most of the cars in this program haven't been any more real than that was and that was also designed by an actual car designer. It doesn't make any functional difference if you claim a car is powered by the natural electrical current of the body of the driver or you say the car is powered by a normal ass V8 that you already make if neither are true.

And btw, the comment you defend here literally says that "Polyphony didn't contribute anything" (what isn't true also), but you could actually try reading what was written.
Yes, and in the context of his comment he was saying that McLaren could (and in the recent glut of ultra elite track only playtoys, probably would) have built this actual car very much like they have independent of whether the VGT program actually existed or not. Since McLaren already styled it and determined that there was a market for such a car just like there has been for the other similar cars we already can guess that the design would have been the very similar, so all PD did was give a little advertising boost that McLaren didn't have to pay for themselves.


Read, then respond. You're not posting in the GT7 subforum where posting a gotcha that's vaguely praising PD in lieu of an actual post is enough to make you king 🤬 for the day.


And who, really, who said that the VGT program would influence real life everyday-cars? Read what the actual goal of the VGT program is. If there's people who say this would be the case, they understand this either, but that's not the fault of PD, the VGT-program is what it is.
Multiple in the beginning of this thread claimed that it had done so. Most of the responses in the thread before you posted were in response to those posts.


Read, then respond.


And if the influence it has on real-life cars doesn't fit your individual expectations, then yeah, too bad. It influences real-life cars, that is way more than any game ever did
Provide an example, then. We've got this non-street legal track toy as one, assuming McLaren wouldn't have built it basically the same regardless. We've got a bunch of stuff that's just as crazy and imaginary and meaningless as the Nike was in GT4, so not those. We've got a few where the manufacturer took a car design that already existed and added a wild body kit and vents and spoilers and crazy LED lights and more extreme proportions to it, so not those. And we've got the Chiron, whose design would have already been completed well before that point so adding a big spoiler to it for the VGT program was just an innovative way to preview a car they were already going to make, so not that.


So what are you suggesting, that PD just say "nah, we don't like that, that's too elite-like for us" or "please don't build a actual production model out of the one you developed for us"?
I'd personally suggest that PD could stop wasting their resources doing advertising campaigns for other companies who were already going to build non-functioning fantasy design studies that get pushed around everywhere at car shows before being forgotten in a few years just like they have for at least 50 years now.
 
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