- 84,442
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:
Plus it's real manufacturers doing realistic mad concepts, not PD just making up cars with a Nike symbol.And people continue to say the VGT project is a waste of resources. The amount of design influence and full blow cars born from VGT speaks volumes to how influential it actually is.
Yes over the past 9 years the grand total of... uh... 1 ultra-rich person's track toy? A handful of cars that the companies already made covered in extra vents and spoilers and bodykits? The Chiron is probably the closest to an actual example, if automotive production lead times didn't mean that its design would have been locked in well before the Vision GT was shown off (meaning the car they actually planned on selling for money was done first and Bugatti showed off the Vision GT car to preview it).And people continue to say the VGT project is a waste of resources. The amount of design influence and full blow cars born from VGT speaks volumes to how influential it actually is.
Functionally there's no difference between nonsense like the SRT or the Chaparral and the Nike from GT4.Plus it's real manufacturers doing realistic mad concepts, not PD just making up cars with a Nike symbol.
I have always found it interesting that we've gone from an area only covered by the likes of Caterham and KTM to now something catered by those brands as well as Lamborghini.It’s an interesting looking car, if a little dumbed down from the VGT’s appearance, but it now inhabits the odd track-day only prototype area as the Bolide and Valkyrie AMR, which I think is one of the weirdest new automotive segments. It doesn’t have the same appeal as a track-converted road car.
Its a Judd V10 from what I have heard.A 5.2l naturally aspirated V10? Are they using the Audighini engine for this?
Ah okay, that makes more sense. It’s very weird seeing a new McLaren without their twin turbo V8…Its a Judd V10 from what I have heard.
Right. It's influencing entirely unavailable track only hypercars for the rich and elite. Excellent. Keep it up Polyphony, that's what the world needs more of.And people continue to say the VGT project is a waste of resources. The amount of design influence and full blow cars born from VGT speaks volumes to how influential it actually is.
We're pretty much still there though because apart from a factory supported promo run up Goodwood cars like this are pretty much never going to be driven in anger as they're too valuable of an investment.I have always found it interesting that we've gone from an area only covered by the likes of Caterham and KTM to now something catered by those brands as well as Lamborghini.
Hate is a strong word, but I don't particularly care to "drive" any of them, no. "drive" because 99% of the time you're driving fiction as they don't actually exist as running vehicles in reality.Do you guys hate concept cars?
The fact you had to specifically bring up GT in order for it to enter their minds should tell you just how little of an impact the Vision GT program has had.They just happened to have a reason to make them. I ask the designers who were a part of them and how it was, and it was a general concept car brief. I mention Gran Turismo and they say “oh yeah, they also did that with it!”
A little bit yes, prototypes are far more interesting since they're at least usually designed with the possibility it may go into production in mind. There's also a far better chance that it may actually function as an automobile instead of a giant clay brick.Do you guys hate concept cars?
I don't know about that.This is the most literal example of a VGT going real.
It depends. Concept cars as a general category have their place. Concept cars that are the preliminary work to a real car (or could have been) like the Nissan GTR Concept? Freaking excellent more please. Perfect fit for the game.They’re concept cars.
They just happened to have a reason to make them. I ask the designers who were a part of them and how it was, and it was a general concept car brief. I mention Gran Turismo and they say “oh yeah, they also did that with it!”
Do you guys hate concept cars?
My god, PD must be so sorry that these cars doesn’t fit your taste.Right. It's influencing entirely unavailable track only hypercars for the rich and elite. Excellent. Keep it up Polyphony, that's what the world needs more of.
I'd say the amount of design influence and the full blown cars that have resulted are a perfect example of what a waste of resources the VGT project has been. These companies didn't need Polyphony's influence to design or sell this stuff. Polyphony didn't contribute anything. It's pure marketing, but directed squarely at the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. Someone could work hard and save their pennies and maybe one day afford a 911, but this thing? You'll be lucky if you're in the same country as one.
I miss the Gran Turismo that featured every day cars that every day people could afford. People playing Gran Turismo aren't generally in the market for a multi-million dollar supercar. But they're probably in the market for an affordable sportscar that they could drive on the road.
Maybe some sort of future Grand Tourer would be nice? They could have some sort of program where manufacturers could design potential future Grand Touring cars, ones that would be able to be manufactured and affordable by mere mortals. That'd be cool, like seeing into the future. How great would it be playing a concept car as a teenager then growing up to buy the actual model ten years later?
But hypercars made of imaginarium and unaffordable track only genital extensions, that's definitely the way to go.
No, he's pointing out that the airs people put on about how important/influential the program has been, like was done earlier in this thread, is nonsense.So you are ranting because there’s track-only race cars developed (with real manufacturers) for a racing game?
You could try actually reading what was written, for once.What kind of argument even is this??
The only angry person in this thread seems to be you. Perhaps unsurprising considering the amount of contempt you've shown towards people (and Imari in particular) for trying to talk about this topic (among others) in a way you don't like in the past.This is just a bonus, a pretty unique bonus, you can like it or just don’t like it, but there’s no reason to be that angry about something that is just a extra to a game that no other game has, something that you can just neglect if it doesn’t speak to you.
And you'd be wrong. For many of the Vision GT cars, PD are the ones doing all of the heavy lifting. The manufacturer may make a 1:1 physical model and they are probably the ones who provide the made up specs for it (shout out to Bugatti for saying their Vision GT car weighs about 800 less pounds than it could possibly do in real life) but PD are the ones who have to spent months of man hours putting it in the game. This should have been obvious years ago when the likes of the 2X, with its elaborately written sci fi nonsense powertrain, was added to the game based off some concept drawings on behalf of a manufacturer that hadn't existed for 18 years and wasn't even in the spirit of the cars they did make. It should have been even more obvious when Nike was added to the Vision GT program under two different brands.And if your argument is that they „waste“ resources on it, I don’t think (like many here pointing out) that from PD‘s side that there’s so much work put into it, it lies for the most part on the manufacturers side I would say
So you just type in some stuff because you don't like the program, no matter if your arguments are bs?No, he's pointing out that the airs people put on about how important/influential the program has been is nonsense.
You could try actually reading what was written.
The only angry person in this thread seems to be you.
And you'd be wrong. Except for the fraction of ones where the manufacturer builds some sort of physical example, PD are the only ones putting substantial work into the program. This should have been obvious years ago when the likes of the Chaparral (a company that no longer exists)
Except at the start of the series, they literally did.PD doesn't dictate what kind of car they expect from the manufacturer
What people are suggesting is that PD/the manufacturers should have actually stuck to that instead of building willy waving rocket ships out of lasers and materials that don't exist and 2500hp. Or even this McLaren, which whilst based in reality, it was not a road going Grand Tourer."Would you be willing to design your rendition of Gran Turismo for us?" The videogame’s name "Gran Turismo" (GT) refers to a 2-door sport car, known as a Grand Touring car in the automotive world.
I miss the time where PD actually put real concept cars in the game rather than vgt spaceships.Right. It's influencing entirely unavailable track only hypercars for the rich and elite. Excellent. Keep it up Polyphony, that's what the world needs more of.
I'd say the amount of design influence and the full blown cars that have resulted are a perfect example of what a waste of resources the VGT project has been. These companies didn't need Polyphony's influence to design or sell this stuff. Polyphony didn't contribute anything. It's pure marketing, but directed squarely at the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. Someone could work hard and save their pennies and maybe one day afford a 911, but this thing? You'll be lucky if you're in the same country as one.
I miss the Gran Turismo that featured every day cars that every day people could afford. People playing Gran Turismo aren't generally in the market for a multi-million dollar supercar. But they're probably in the market for an affordable sportscar that they could drive on the road.
Maybe some sort of future Grand Tourer would be nice? They could have some sort of program where manufacturers could design potential future Grand Touring cars, ones that would be able to be manufactured and affordable by mere mortals. That'd be cool, like seeing into the future. How great would it be playing a concept car as a teenager then growing up to buy the actual model ten years later?
But hypercars made of imaginarium and unaffordable track only genital extensions, that's definitely the way to go.
Critiquing the VGT program is ranting now? 'Kay.My god, PD must be so sorry that these cars doesn’t fit your taste.
So you are ranting because there’s track-only race cars developed (with real manufacturers) for a racing game?
What kind of argument even is this??
I could, but they're not part of the VGT program and so not relevant to this thread.You also complain that there’s the Ferrari FXX-K, the McLaren P1 GTR etc. in the game? These track-only HyperCars for the rich elite?
I kind of get the impression that you would like people to be positive about everything or just shut up. That's not how any of this works.This is just a bonus, a pretty unique bonus, you can like it or just don’t like it, but there’s no reason to be that angry about something that is just a extra to a game that no other game has, something that you can just neglect if it doesn’t speak to you.
My opinion is that the implementation of the VGT program has been for the most part a waste of resources that could have been used more effectively. I've explained why in what I think is reasonable detail. You obviously disagree, and I don't doubt that there's people out there that love every single VGT released.And if your argument is that they „waste“ resources on it, I don’t think (like many here pointing out) that from PD‘s side that there’s so much work put into it, it lies for the most part on the manufacturers side I would say
I mean, why did you assume I was angry in the first place? I may have a snarky writing style sometimes, but that's not a reliable indicator of anger. I'd say starting sentences with "my god" and ending them with multiple question marks is a better indicator of anger, but still not reliable. Sometimes you just really question things.First: why am I angry and he's not? What is there on both our comments that makes you think I am angry, but he's not?
Is it? It's a concept car. It can be as much or as little work as the manufacturers choose. One could spend months doing detailed design research, iterating on ideas and making sure that the proposed numbers that go along with the mechanical design are reasonable and feasible.That is the biggest amount of work put into it, actually developing the car.
It would appear you've misinterpreted that. My bad, perhaps I should have been more clear, but the previous sentence did reference "design and sell".And btw, the comment you defend here literally says that "Polyphony didn't contribute anything" (what isn't true also), but you could actually try reading what was written.
It is too bad. But we're still allowed to talk about it.And if the influence it has on real-life cars doesn't fit your individual expectations, then yeah, too bad.
They don't even specify that. That was the understanding at the start of the project, but I think at this point there are enough VGTs that are clearly in no way Grand Tourers that it's safe to say that Polyphony in no way held manufacturers to it.PD doesn't dictate what kind of car they expect from the manufacturer except that it has to be a Gran Turismo...
Yes.So what are you suggesting, that PD just say "nah, we don't like that, that's too elite-like for us" or "please don't build a actual production model out of the one you developed for us"?
Except that I also wrote literally this in my comment, read it again if you will.Except at the start of the series, they literally did.
What people are suggesting is that PD/the manufacturers should have actually stuck to that instead of building willy waving rocket ships out of lasers and materials that don't exist and 2500hp. Or even this McLaren, which whilst based in reality, it was not a road going Grand Tourer.
Because of your post history, your inability to respond to people to people you disagree with without acting like they have a third arm coming out of their ass, the tone of your responses in this thread, your post history towards Imari on this very topic:First: why am I angry and he's not? What is there on both our comments that makes you think I am angry, but he's not?
And also the fact that you went off on his post in this thread without actually understanding it; and still don't seem to have any understanding of it or any of the posts you're responding to beyond "They are criticizing PD."Even that I’m agreeing that my post got deleted because of the insult I wrote in it, it wasn’t a personal attack because I just wanted to personally attack him, it was just a fact that I realized. He‘s not acting very intelligent, but unfortunately has a very strong opinion and to add to that, doesn’t really mind to read what the other one wrote
No, they don't. The amount of cars in this program that had any development work put into them could be counted on one hand; and I suspect the answer is "only the ones made by Volkswagen-Audi Group." Almost none of them have been "developed". Almost none of them have any existence beyond drawings/a clay model and a press release saying how cool they are. Most of them likely haven't even seen the desk of an engineer in the company. Making up stats isn't development work. Making a clay model that you take to a car show and push to its booth isn't development work. Talking about all the amazing technology that is in a concept car isn't development work. Claiming performance isn't development work. Developing a car is development work. Even the car that was basically a car a manufacturer was already finishing up development on in real life (the Bugatti) has stats in-game as a Vision GT that are laughable. In that respect, the overwhelming majority of the VGT cars are no different than any other point in the past when a car manufacturer has trotted out crazy concept cars that have nothing to do with anything with the brand's past or future and are just there to get people talking about the brand. GM in particular was a master class of doing such a thing in the 1980s.What is obvious about that PD is putting substantial work into VGT's? You do know that these cars get developed by the manufacturer, by actual designers, engineers etc. and not by PD? That is the biggest amount of work put into it, actually developing the car. Implementing it into the game won't be that of a problem considering these cars get developed fully digital and with the game in mind from the beginning on.
Yes, and in the context of his comment he was saying that McLaren could (and in the recent glut of ultra elite track only playtoys, probably would) have built this actual car very much like they have independent of whether the VGT program actually existed or not. Since McLaren already styled it and determined that there was a market for such a car just like there has been for the other similar cars we already can guess that the design would have been the very similar, so all PD did was give a little advertising boost that McLaren didn't have to pay for themselves.And btw, the comment you defend here literally says that "Polyphony didn't contribute anything" (what isn't true also), but you could actually try reading what was written.
Multiple in the beginning of this thread claimed that it had done so. Most of the responses in the thread before you posted were in response to those posts.And who, really, who said that the VGT program would influence real life everyday-cars? Read what the actual goal of the VGT program is. If there's people who say this would be the case, they understand this either, but that's not the fault of PD, the VGT-program is what it is.
Provide an example, then. We've got this non-street legal track toy as one, assuming McLaren wouldn't have built it basically the same regardless. We've got a bunch of stuff that's just as crazy and imaginary and meaningless as the Nike was in GT4, so not those. We've got a few where the manufacturer took a car design that already existed and added a wild body kit and vents and spoilers and crazy LED lights and more extreme proportions to it, so not those. And we've got the Chiron, whose design would have already been completed well before that point so adding a big spoiler to it for the VGT program was just an innovative way to preview a car they were already going to make, so not that.And if the influence it has on real-life cars doesn't fit your individual expectations, then yeah, too bad. It influences real-life cars, that is way more than any game ever did
I'd personally suggest that PD could stop wasting their resources doing advertising campaigns for other companies who were already going to build non-functioning fantasy design studies that get pushed around everywhere at car shows before being forgotten in a few years just like they have for at least 50 years now.So what are you suggesting, that PD just say "nah, we don't like that, that's too elite-like for us" or "please don't build a actual production model out of the one you developed for us"?